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Slackware Officially On Sparc
gags bunny wrote to us with the official word from Slackware that Slack now runs on Sparc.
If you've got a Sparc sitting around the download site is live - else just grab the
mini-ISO image and work from there. We had a story on this recently as well.
Re:There's some real pig-headed assumptions here.
Is that supposed to be ironic?
You can get a 133 Mhz Sparcbook (as fast as Pentium class 450Mhz) for $800 compared to a P450 Notebook for $1200+. 2/3 the price and 3 3/4 the performance. Almost 6x the value.
I'd understand this being done on the original Sparc, but I'll castigate the first person who puts Slackware on an UltraSparc II
That's kinda how Linux got the lead. People running Linux found it 2.5x faster than Slowlaris.
You wanna talk big iron, ok Linux is kinda behind in that arena. Does the caverage guy need big iron? No. You figure it out from there.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
$10,000? Where'd you get that number?
I have a sparc5 in my basement, waiting for me to get a CD-burner to start putting Linux on it.
Right now it's got some older version of solaris, but hey - it's a 64Mb machine, SCSI toys, and to be honest, it's an excellent machine.
A buddy of mine picked up a pile of Sparc 1's, and they're doing great for him.
I donate all spillover Karma to the charity of my choice... Ada was still a babe despite what people may say...
Everything on the main page after the "grab the mini-ISO" is a link to the slackware FTP site.
Yeah, the 68000 and 68010 were 16 bit CPUs with 24 bits of address space. The 68020 and up are 32 bits. I don't remember if the 68060 made it to 64 bit, but I don't think so, I think it was just 32 bit with 48 bit addressing or something wonky like that. You could get a 60MHz '060, though, not too shabby, especially when AmigaDOS runs suitably on a 7.14MHz 68000.
Anyway, the point of this message:
And
So far, uClinux runs on the Palm Pilot and on the uCsimm. Paul Coene's setup will boot on Atari ST (another 68000-based box, much like an amiga without all the cool custom chips) and in the STonX Atari ST emulator.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I work at a telco, and we have piles of sparc 5/10/20s and even a few ipxs.
2 years ago we moved to Ultra 10's for our desktops. In our litte office alone we replaced 40 or 50 desktops.
Most people took the 20's home for remote workstations. (And firewalls) (-;
http://lng.sourceforge.net/
I've heard this is not possible because of the closed hardware config of the O2, but any advice would be appreciated. IRIX hurts.
Honorary Member of Jackie Chan's Kung Fu Process Servers
I wonder how much this will affect the future of slackware. I mean they have been struggling as of late with all the other distros doing the fancy shrinkwrap thing. in a way, they're almost out dated. I hope splitting to a sparc branch wont over drain their already low resources.
You can't be a karma whore if you're an anonymous coward.
Could your model be the ELC or SLC perhaps? These are the only models that Sun created which were all in one, IIRC. I'm currently running RH 5.1 on my ELC, which has a 33 MHz processor, 64 MB RAM, and a 1 GB HD. Not bad considering it was produced 10 years ago. The one limiting factor is the B&W screen, but that just adds to the old school factor. :-)
Sheepdot: Open Source good, Closed Source baaaaaaad!
It's still a rare thing in Aus. I've found one tho, but ADSL is coming out in a month, so why bother?
-JB
"I love deadlines. I love the "whooshing" sound they make as they pass by." - Douglas Adams.
In my experience, the best way to get old systems is to know someone who who maintains computer systems at a company where they use a lot of Sun (and can therefore help you get the stuff they throw out), which is how I got mine, or you can look around in dumpsters around high-tech companies. It might sound a little disgusting, but a lot of times people will throw out perfectly usable systems just because they're a little old.
Sheepdot: Open Source good, Closed Source baaaaaaad!
Most good size cities (I'm in Dallas ) have a 'sidewalk' sale (swap meet) monthly. I see Sparc
10,20 regularly. I haven't inquired about price,
but it's always negotiable.
Today, if you've got 10k to burn, you can buy a new Sun Blade 1000, which has an UltraSparc-III processor.
Where in Dallas? I would LOVE to go
I got myself four SPARCstation-4s for free from a company who no longer needed them. They came without memory or disks but these parts were easily bought.
Now, two of them reside in 19" racks at some providers and need only 2 units each. Try to beat this with PCs that usually take 4 units.
Posted by polar_bear:
Well, I suppose I should prepare to be castigated...
I have a Ultra 10 just "sitting around" right now...
I recently got an UltraSparc 10 from a company that owed me money but had a shortage of money, but surplus equipment. I'm not a fan of Solaris, and I have no interest in supporting a non-free UNIX. I've long been a fan of Linux, and Slackware in particular, and I think it's great that they're supporting Sparc and UltraSparc.
This is a great sign for Linux, it's moving beyond the limitations of Intel hardware. Linux has potential to be an enterprise OS, but Intel hardware is not up to the task of running enterprise solutions in the way that Sun hardware is. IMHO it would be nice if Sun (and Apple...) would realize that they're hardware companies and get behind Open Source solutions like Linux or the *BSDs. (Until I saw the Slack announcement, I was leaning more towards NetBSD...)
I'd be willing to bet that you'd never used Slackware before. The Slackware team makes a fine distribution that is the most UNIX-like of the Linux distributions (at least of the ones that I've used; Debian, Caldera, Corel, Red Hat, SuSE, Stormix, LinuxPPC, Linux-Mandrake).
Maybe you like Solaris. Great, go for it. But don't jump down the throats of people who don't want to use closed-source OSes. (Despite Sun's attempts to convince the media to the contrary, Solaris is not an Open Source OS. Visible source, maybe, Open or Free? No way.)
Is Slack ready to compete with Solaris on Sparc? Probably not yet, but the only way to reach parity is for people to install Slack on Sparc and continue testing and development, which is exactly what I intend to do.
Chances are, if you have a Sparc machine, it drained at least $10,000 from your wallet and it's running Solaris 7/8.
So now who's making assumptions? We buy rack-mount SPARC hardware regularly, for general purpose servers. They are not Sun branded, they are built on OEM hardware, and can be purchased new for about $2300 and up.
It's easy to justify buying the SPARC hardware over x86:
Most of our SPARCs are running Solaris today. I'm considering installing Linux on some of those to simplify management: it's easer to manage a network of Linux machines than a mix of Linux and Solaris. The main criteria is whether we need a JVM... those running Java are stuck with Solaris for now.
Unfourtnatley the offer from sun expired on the 22nd, but they will most ceartinly continue it in a few weeks. http://store.sun.com/docs/specials/specials_index. jhtmlHeres a list of their promos:
If your not a student, goto a JC, pay 50$ for a class, get a student ID, and save 50% on a machine ...
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
I can start a project on a used SGI Indy or Indigo2 running IRIX 6.5. If I need more power on a single system I can order an Origin 3000 with 512 CPUs, 1TB RAM, and ungodly bandwidth. Soon they will be available up to 1024 CPU, 2TB config. If your project/idea/business takes off and brings in money and demand, you're going to need to supply. How far can your Linux box with mysql+php go? Maybe an 8-CPU Xeon or Alpha?
IIRC, the hard disks were external only. I had an SLC and don't recall it having room for a hard disk. I used it with Xkernel as an X Terminal, but now that there's slack for sparc, perhaps it would be better done that way.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Frequently Asked Questions About Buying An Old Sun System (FAQABOSS)
Don't expect much from the graphics subsystems - most of the frame buffers that are supported are only 8 bit and unaccelerated. My LX would run Gnome and KDE, but it was excruciating. I am now running most of my Sparc gear (IPX, 2 Classics, an LX and a 2xSM51 Sparc 10) on OpenBSD. The IPX makes a great firewall with the addition of another NIC, and the 'lunchbox' Sparcs are nice and tidy. Watch the heat issues, especially with newer high RPM SCSI drives...
By the way, does anyone know if the PCMCIA - SBUS bridge (nell) is due for attention? What about pthreads and mysql on the old Sparcs?
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
Not only that;
The goal of the ELKS project is to create a Linux option for
- 8086 and 80286 class PC's
- Palmtop Computers
- Single board microcomputers
- Embedded controller systems
- Other old computers
ELKS currently runs on PC's. The ELKS kernel image needs about 200K and a full running system should require 400K-512K. Linux is used as the development platform for ELKS at the moment."You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
X 4.0.2's DRI supports the Creator3D. I dunno how optimized the driver is though.
Although Linux does support console on the serial port, so if that "rack mount device" you speak of is a basic term-server/serial port switcher, you can manage your x86 Linux boxen the same damn way.
True, almost. Just hope you don't have to perform any BIOS changes from a serial console. You can't compare the poor excuse of firmware that ships with most PCs to OpenBoot.
The Blackdown Project has Sparc ports. 1.2.2 is available, though I don't believe that 1.3 is yet.
Good point. The Blackdown folks do fine work. But it's still no match for the Solaris 1.2.2 Production VM. Our server apps have to be robust, fast, robust, high performance, robust...
(I'm hoping the gcj project will become the great equalizer on Java performance, but it's not quite there yet.)
Actually, the 68000-series CPUs on which the Amiga was based are mostly 32-bit. The original 68000 CPU was not fully 32-bit, but the 68020 and up were. Linux requires a 68020 or higher with an MMU.
Otherwise you need something like ucLinux.
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I remember slackware getting me into knowing more about intel pc's than I had ever imagined. Now I can start busting 31337 knowledge on my iSparc (that's what I call it, it's really some all-in-one workstation w/ no HD collecting dust in my closet). If only I can get it to run off the network, THE computer, whatever sun calls it.
So who wants to erase a professionally designed operating system that costs hundreds of dollars to replace it with Slackware?
There are people that payed for Windows 2000 you know...
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Now the question is, where can one get cheap, usable Sun hardware to play with. Anyone?
So what does this mean for OSS and GNU? Another architecture conquered, but to what end?
"I love deadlines. I love the "whooshing" sound they make as they pass by." - Douglas Adams.
Like NetBSD/sparc e.g.
you're right, but I believe that Linux for SPARC is *mostly* run by people w/older SPARC's, not brandnew hardware...
;-)
I have used Solaris and I am not fond of it, but I am sure that if you bought a system w/it, you would want to use it, what do I know?
I am more comfortable w/Linux myself and would probably prefer to use that but then again, I didn't pay $10k for an USII
Now who has a Sparc machine just "sitting around"? Chances are, if you have a Sparc machine, it drained at least $10,000 from your wallet and it's running Solaris 7/8. So who wants to erase a professionally designed operating system that costs hundreds of dollars to replace it with Slackware?
I'd understand this being done on the original Sparc, but I'll castigate the first person who puts Slackware on an UltraSparc II. They're just throwing their money out the window.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Why not dig out your old C64 and put linux on that! If dreamcast can do it so can we :-)
P.S Debian's been able to run on SPARC for quite some time now.
When I got my first Sun, a SPARCstation IPX, I had an interesting OS adventure with it. In the begining, all I had was serial console. So, I fooled around. I think I tried RedHat, but Linux distros are total crap when I comes to network installation. So, I went with NetBSD. It worked pretty nicely. Once I got a second monitor for it (got a 17" Sony for my PC, and gave it my 15" Sony), I started trying more things. I think I first tried Solaris 2.4. Ran just fine, but it was so old that finding stuff for it wasn't easy. Then I tried Solaris 7. Sol 7 has some big problems with it that caused it to run at 1/4 the speed on my IPX as it did on a friend's SS2 (equivalent machine). So, I dug up a copy of Solaris 2.6, and the machine's been running that just fine for quite a while.
Recently my best Sun has been a SPARCstation 5 running Solaris 8, so I found a new use for my IPX. I threw an s-bus NIC into it (hard to find, since Suns all come with on-board NICs, but I had it laying around), and installed OpenBSD. Makes a great firewall. Fits under the network switch just nicely. (and works a lot better than the crappy crash-happy PC I was trying to do it with before. it was hardware, as I was using OpenBSD in both cases)
I actually paid for slackware. Not much tho.
I didn't like the idea of downloading 1200MB worth via a 56KBaud modem. Bad stuff indeed, especially when I pay 0.28 cents/meg over 300MB every month.
"I love deadlines. I love the "whooshing" sound they make as they pass by." - Douglas Adams.
All good points about the SPARC hardware.
Or not.
Granted, resolving bizarre HW interactions is one of the "joys" of running x86 systems. All in all, though, if you use reasonably consistantly configured systems you can get more bang for your buck out of an x86. You even admit this in your second point.
--
If your map and the terrain differ,
trust the terrain.
All good points about the SPARC hardware.
Or not.
Granted, resolving bizarre HW interactions is one of the "joys" of running x86 systems. All in all, though, if you use reasonably consistantly configured systems you can get more bang for your buck out of an x86. You even admit this in your second point.
I've got to give you at partial credit here. Although Linux does support console on the serial port, so if that "rack mount device" you speak of is a basic term-server/serial port switcher, you can manage your x86 Linux boxen the same damn way.
In your final paragraph you also state:
Again my response must be: Or not. The Blackdown Project has Sparc ports. 1.2.2 is available, though I don't believe that 1.3 is yet. Frankly, with the exception of HP-UX, Slowaris ... er, I mean Solaris ... is one of the most painfull platforms to "write once, run anywhere" on. IMHO, of course.
I will grant you this, though: x86 equipment, on the whole, is drek compared to most Sparc based stuff. It just isn't designed as robustly. Kind of like comparing a Nissan to a Toyota. I love my Nissan, and certainly get better bang for the buck with it. No regrets at all. However, one drive in the eqiv Toy would reveal an obvious difference in robustness, design and fit & finish.
--
If your map and the terrain differ,
trust the terrain.
linux outscales solaris in SMP and Enterprise server configurations, it's more stable and more secure out of the box
You've been smoking your old CDs again, haven't you?
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Admitted -- new boxes are fairly expensive for private use. Until now Sun has a price policy that gives significant savings only for educational institutions and companies that spend huge sums for Sun hardware.
But it is no problem to get used Sun hardware for low prices. Maybe they are not the machines of your choice on your desktop but they are great network servers and the pizza box cases consume less space in 19" racks than standard PC hardware. Except for the newer Ultras, Sun hardware is well manufactured and runs (in most cases) without trouble for years.
why is it so rare to actually find people using one?
Well, I guess you'll find some of them in this thread :-)