Space Tourism

Nevyan writes: "A conglomeration of Japanese firms plan on making space flight available to the general public. Cost: $26,000. Duration: 3 hours. Training: even a monkey (or a politician) could do it..."

Comments

Pioneers, NOT tourists!

[IronDragon]

This will never get anywhere. Oogling at the earth from 50 miles up will not accomplish any long term goals.

There is a commonly held belief that space travel will always be expensive. This doesnt have to be the case. If there existed a space infrastructure, you could reduce the complexity of the launch vehicle to the point where its _only_ carrying up the human cargo. Food, oxygen, and etcetra could be availible in orbit. Rocket fuel costs a bit less than milk per gallon. It wont always be prohibitvely expensive to get into orbit.

What we really need is to establish an industrial infrastructure in space. This means mining the moon and Near Earth Asteroids. The vehicles, equipment, and perhaps even the crew for further projects out in space will need to come from a lunar base, or something similar.

Some possible benefits of space-based manufacturing:

- Satellite launches will cost thosands of times less.

- Satellites can be much larger, since the weight constraints from our gravity well are no longer a limiting factor.

- The moon and metallic asteroids are incredibly rich in minerals. Some of the Apollo samples were 6% platinum. Another compound found on the moon is Illmenite - TiFeO2.

Launching from the earth is an extremely wasteful venture. Even more wasteful if we spend it on 'tourist' missions. I seriously dont think that the cost of putting people into orbital joyrides will turn enough profit to fund an infrastructure-building mission. Mabye, but is that their intention? Or is the next project a 'space hotel', virtual reality mars tour, or somethig equally pointless?

I fear that someday we will reach a point where socioecononmic factors, public interest, and earth-based resources reach a point where large missions involving human launches would become an impossibility for public and private enterprise, left only to NASA or the ESA.

:/

hidden benefits

[Alien54]

Well, with costs like this, only certain executives would generally be able to afford this.

Maybe this should be promoted to those "favorite" pointy haired executives. Then, if it goes "boom", there is still not a problem

Although there is the anecdotal effect of people being out in space and actually having the time to enjoy it, looking out the window, etc. It changes their viewpoint somehow, for the better. Many astronauts have attested to this

All the mystical mumbo jumbo aside, this would probably be good for the planet and culture and politics in the long run.

There is probably a whole series of articles and stories that could be down on the mental/emotional impact of space travel on people. It is one of those things whose consequences would not be easily forseen.

must complete one orbit to be a "space trip"

[peter303]

You can rent a vomit comet in Russia and the
USA for a weightless ride now.
But everyone whos been in space says the earth
view is most fantastic part.

Re:Public Space Trips

[ZanshinWedge]

What happens when something goes really wrong in some 3rd world country where you're more likely to die of an infection at the hospital than get proper treatment? What happens in Antarctica when something goes wrong? What happens when you're on a sailboat in the middle of the Pacific Ocean? Or on Mt. Everest? There is an approx. $7,000 fee per person just to have the priveledge of climbing Mt. Everest and it presumably costs a hefty chunk of cash to get the equipment and proper training and guides as well. Yet, on average over 100 people climb (successfully) Mt. Everest every year. On average about 5 people die on Mt. Everest every year, in 1996 15 people died on Mt. Everest, since 1975 129 people have died on Mt. Everest.

Sure, space is dangerous, but there are lot's of things that are dangerous that we still "let" people do, and as long as people know what they are getting into we shouldn't stand in their way.

Re:Likely To Happen With Such A Long Wait :)

[tesserae]

If even the gung-ho "Right Stuff" guys puked, what chance does a desk-jockey like me have of keeping it where it belongs?

Face it, the majority of the passengers will hurl. Just as with cruise ships, there'll be lots of "patches" behind the ears... it's what most people do in microgravity, and I think we won't change people, we'll just drug 'em.

There will be accidents, there will be deaths and some people may try to go legal.

There's actually a good model for this: skydiving. Go out to the local dropzone and sign up for a first-jump course: you'll sign a waiver which basically says you understand you might die, and that's your tough luck... These waivers regularly hold up in court, in part because few people are stupid enough to believe there's no risk, and they've been thoroughly warned that there is.

The other thing which helps is that there's rarely insurance, which prevents the development of a "deep pocket" for the lawyers to feed on. The Japanese might be relatively safe, since the lawsuits might have to be in their courts (as opposed to US courts, which are certifiably insane).

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3 hour tour?

[dxkelly]

I know better then to go on one of those. :-)

Re:said and done

[Mr. Slippery]

after all how many people have 26k to drop for a few hours joy?

People pay in excess of 26k$ for cars. I'd rather drive a rusty old Toyota for 5k$ and spend 26k$ on a space flight (even three hours) than pay 31k$ for a BMW or whatever. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | http://www.infamous.net/

Public Space Trips

[Stskeeps]

How about when people only get a little training, and things Go Really Wrong (TM) out in space? What in the world can tourists do then? Is the world really ready for this?

Re:Public Space Trips

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and what about first post ?

Re:Public Space Trips

[gswalker]

The article actually says that no training is required, all you need to do is turn up and check in. So is it really any different than travelling on a commerical airline? Does put a whole new perspective on the Space Beer story posted a while back though.

but wait...

[munehiro]

26,000$ in 3 hours are only...
(ticckle tackle on my pocket calculator)...

144 $ per minute...

ok... may i look for only 5 minutes and keep my eyes closed for the remaining time of the flight? :)

Likely To Happen With Such A Long Wait :)

[grantdh]

To get away with something like this, there are a large number of issues to address over & above the whole "We've never done this before" thing (don't forget, the Japanese have an excellent track record at taking what others have done and making it better). Lets see:

Just turn up, pay & fly:
Hmmm - no massive acceleration or there'd be coronaries galore ("Did you pack your bags? Have you had your shots? Are you fit for massive amounts of acceleration?" :)

I don't even want to think about the whole space sickness thing - are they going to spin/keep thrusting/etc to keep everyone's stomachs down? If even the gung-ho "Right Stuff" guys puked, what chance does a desk-jockey like me have of keeping it where it belongs?

Shirt sleeve environment:
OK, lots of nifty technology issues to address to ensure that everyone gets a window with enough viewing space, etc (anyone remember the Comet aircraft - it had a nasty habit of braking up in flight due to stress cracks around the square windows in the fuselage)

$26,000 fare:
Hell - I'd pay it, no problems (so I mortgage my soul again - what the hell :) It's basically for those with senior positions, family money, lotteries or serious desire + the guts to save. It'll probably be closer to $100k by the time it gets there, but anyhow - the equivalent right now is good for evaluation...

Given the accelaration & environment issues, there's lots of work required on propulsion and materials issues. Fortunately there's lots of research happening here, provided funding remains.

Tourists in space will happen, it's just a matter of time. It didn't happen by the 90's as predicted in the 60's. It may not happen by 2016 as predicted now, but it will happen. Of course, it will require some very long-term planning people with the balls to fund an expensive programme with a very long term pay off (once it's cheap to get people & things into space, space can start to pay off).

There will be accidents, there will be deaths and some people may try to go legal. Like the early days of aviation, each safely completed trip and each pile of twisted remains (or cloud of atoms/molecules/bits) will teach us more. Eventually, we'll get it right. If it were available right now, I'd do it in a flash.

The concept is good. The hype is crap. Maybe these guys can pull it off - probably they can't. At least they're trying!

Re:Pioneers, NOT tourists!

[tesserae]

This will never get anywhere. Oogling at the earth from 50 miles up will not accomplish any long term goals.

I disagree. While it doesn't directly accomplish your longterm goals (which I share, very enthusiastically!), it does help create both the infrastructure for space travel, and more importantly it creates an image of the possibility and the desirability of space travel.

I think these are all great things, and I wholeheartedly support space tourism because of it. (Just keep 'em out of the way of the serious folks, please... ;)

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Re:more lunacy

[tesserae]

Why would someone even take the chance here when clearly they're stating they acknowledge issues surrounding their space projects.

They're not proposing they do it tomorrow; one might presume that in a decade or two they could acquire the necessary knowledge to do it better... after all, the US and USSR both had plenty of problems in their early days, but overcame them.

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And what infrastructure are you looking for?

[roystgnr]

A space station? Naah, we've had a couple of those before, and now we've even got a really freaking expensive space station. I don't see the final frontier opening wide up yet, do you?

How about probes to the moon and NEO asteroids, to give us some prospector-impressive data? No, wait, NASA's already doing that, we already know there's a hell of a lot of valuable minerals out there, but nobody wants to get them.

So why does nobody want to get them? Because if there were pure gold to be scooped up in Low Earth Orbit a Space Shuttle flight that filled it's cargo bay with the stuff would lose money.

The infrastructure we need isn't mining equipment; we know how to make mining equipment. What we need is a cheap way of getting it off the ground!

And if you haven't done the math yet, this Kanko-Maru project is looking at trips to orbit for $1,000,000 a flight. That's about a thousandth of the cost (with development costs accounted for, as they would have to be in a commercial venture) of a Shuttle flight, with a fifth of the payload. On a rocket that's still human-rated for safety, and would be a proof of concept for a fully reusable launch vehicle.

I defy you to name any sort of infrastructure we could develop that would be more valuable than that.

Here's hoping they do it, this time. "Kanko-Maru" is the name of a decades-old idea that (AFAIK) never got the funding to be tried, and it's technically not much different from the Phoenix idea that Gary Hudson was pushing before the Roton. Of course, Hudson had a few small financers who could put up half the cash he needed; the article here is claiming Kanko-Maru has Mitsubishi, Fujitsu, Sharp, and Nissan.

That's the other near-term market

[roystgnr]

Besides manned space flight, well, an orbital rocket is obviously also a suborbital rocket, with a little more payload or a little less fuel expenditure.

Kanko-Maru Parcel Service: For when it absolutely has to be in Tokyo by lunchtime.

Benefit to science

[kastaverious]

What this demonstrates is the ever decreasing cost of space travel. The price is obviously way beyond the reach of most people, but compared to what it would have cost to do the same thing 5 years ago this represents a dramatic price reduction. It is now possible to get a human into space for under $25,000, or to look at it another way. It is now possible to get something weighing the same as a human into space for under $25,000. The ever decreasing cost of getting carrying payloads into space will make satellite launches much less costly than they are, which paves the way for all kinds of interesting things.

More interesting Civilians In Space :-)

[Natalie's Hot Grits]

For what its worth, here are some decent sites containing current NASA and other country's position, and progress on civilian space travel:

http://www.reston.com/nasa/tourism.html
http://www.spacefuture.com/archive/general_public_ space_travel_and_tourism_volume_2.shtml
http://www.nss.org/alerts/releases/release36.html
http://dir.yahoo.com/Science/space/civilian_space_ travel/

MODS: Don't mod me because of age/sex/religion/creed/color/name. If you must criticise, please post contstructively rather than zealously. thanks

Whats 26K ?

[wiZd0m]

When you consider that first class plane tickets for a couple departing from Montreal(YUL) to Sydney(SYD) cost between 30k - 45k CAN. Check out Expedia for details.

26k USD to go in space seems like a bargain to me!