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NetBSD/Dreamcast Official Port
sparcv9 writes: "The NetBSD/sh3 developer Saitoh Masanobu, who was able to boot the
NetBSD/sh3
kernel on his Sega Dreamcast last summer, has now officially forked a
NetBSD/dreamcast port. The Dreamcast effort will focus specifically on supporting the Dreamcast hardware, rather than just the Super-H processor contained within. Currently, it only boots into single-user mode, and the only function hardware is the serial port, but, hey -- it's a start." This project ranks right up there with all the tivo hacking going on in my eyes. When all is said and done, we could have really inexpensive, but reasonably powerful machines to play with.
NetBSD's strength is in its portability. It already runs perfectly well on x86 platforms (doesn't it?), but since embedded systems and workstations are increasingly non-x86 (the former more so than the latter, but give it time), porting to any generally available hardware is a Good Thing.
Besides, an SH evaluation kit with less firepower than the DC is about $4k, and since the SH is as good as the StrongArm for PDA and other nifty applications, having an el-cheapo development environment is a huge bonus for those of us who want to design hardware on a budget.
b.g.
b.g.
what uses would the dreamcast have once this project is reasonably advanced and what might this resulting machine compare to in standard pc-ish language in regards to speed (or anything else you care to compare it to).
basically, as a linux neophyte, i'm wondering if i should get on the mailing list and trying it out once it gets to a semi-useful phase.
My .02,
My .02,
zencode
iactivist.org/jason
- 200 mhz processor: $35
- Custom PowerVR card: $25
- Custom Motherboard: $25
- Memory: $20
- Custom Yamaha sound chip: $20
- Controller: $20
- Modem: $15
- Two games (coming with most bundles now): $40
That's well over the $150 you can spend on the sports bundle, which includes all these things. How is Sega making money on the hardware again?
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Both are the truth. Sega makes a profit, though a small one, on each DC. Sony loses a ton on each PS2, partly because of Rambus and partly because it's just plain more expensive to build. This article explains it in some detail, along with a few pokes at the alleged superiority of the PS2.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
Very good.
Did you know that the GD-ROM format uses the same wavelength as normal CD-ROMs, unlike DVD which uses a different wavelength laser?
You could feasibly re-write the firmware on some CD-ROM drives to allow it to read GD-ROMs.
Also only some of a GD-ROM drive is actually set at the higher denisty. It is possible to read the inner rim of the GD-ROM with an ordinary CD-ROM drive.
Next time you care to taunt me, why don't you be more complete.
This project ranks right up there with all the tivo hacking going on in my eyes.
When did CmdrTaco get the Tivo implanted in his eyes?...
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Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
-Omar
It does, but only because the Toshiba (or Yamaha?) play to be the first sellers of 1G CD-RW systems failed. Mosty because nobody wanted them. Many can still write them! They can't be read on normal CD-ROMs, so people wern't intrested. It fizzled, and then later Sega licenced it.
The Dreamcast can also read normal CDs, otherwise we wouldn't have any music :-)
There is a CD image of a bootable netbsd for the DC at: www.hh.iij4u.or.jp/~bsh/netbsd-dc/netbsd-dc-001.ta r.gz
Burning instructions are at: http://mc.pp.se/dc/cdr.html
However, the image only has serial support (set to 56,6Kb 8N1. There is a ramdisk which the kernel will boot that has sh and a few other basic bits and rouge is installed under /usr/local or maybe /usr/games. You'll need to set TERM and do `stty nl' to play rouge.
A journey of a thousand miles starts with a brutal anal raping at airport security
So that's our solution? We run them into the ground?
It's a good thing I don't want to buy two of these "low-cost machines", considering they won't be in business anymore.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
What about developing them?
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
that DC comes with a modem. Now I'll be able to build a server more powerful than ZDnet's
I saw Linux boot on dreamcast in September at Linux Kongress.
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Your criteria is "small, fast, and compatible" not to mention "freely hacked"
Yet BSD is a BETTER choice based on your criteria.
Small - PicoBSD is a fully functioning Unix OS on a floppy.
Fast - BSD on benchmarks runs FASTER than linux. 10-30% faster.
Compatible - The result of the X86Open group (creation of a common binary format for X86 unixes) was a Linux ELF format. Thusly products like FreeBSD can run Linux binaries. And, FreeBSD can run Quake III linux binaries FASTER than Linux does. And, it is well known and accepted that NetBSD is ported to more platforms.
And, "freely hackable", the BSD license allows the user of the code to commericalize their product without the worry of having to release the IP the company uses in the product. The code is MUCH more free to do what a human wants to than other licenses.
Looking at 2 'linux' projects that are willing to admit they used the pioneering work of NetBSD are the dreamcast port (acknolodge the boot code is NetBSD inspired) and Linux on WinCE
Linux may 'work well', but in the world of computer code, the BSD tree is BETTER!
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
I think you neglect the power of bulk purchasing in nearly all of these estimates.
Let's take one: "Custom motherboard: $25." Exactly what hat do you pull that out of? In single quantities a motherboard like the DC would be $1K+, but in the lots they're having them made I don't see why they would be more than $2.00 a unit. There is a quantity/delivery/price factor in every item you mention which you are ignoring.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
It has a 128 bit(!)
>>>>>>>>>>
We've had 128 bit processors ever since the PIII came out. Console manufacturers will use the widest thing on the chip to talk about the "bitness" of a console. Thus, the reason PS2 is a 128bit console is the fact that the vector pipes are 128bits. Using that logic, Intel could call a Pentium an 80bit chip (the FPU is 80 bits), and Intel and Motorola could call the P4 and the G4 (respectively) 128 bit chips (because both SSE2 and AltiVec are 128bit vector pipes.) PC companies stopped doing this after Neomagic came out with a 256bit graphics chip (the memory bus was 256bits) for laptops.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
There's a surprising number of apps being written, by random people, for the dreamcast. MP3 players, emulators for other consoles, it's all good. Try dcemulation.com for a start.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
With everyone hacking their Dreamcasts to run BSD, and noone buying games, and Sega losing money on each piece of hardware sold, won't this drive Sega into further money problems? They already lost something like $300 million this past year (and this was a good year for them).
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Keep this quiet, otherwise Saddam will snap them all up for his supercomputer cluster, like he did with the PS2.
It will probably also run nicely on on the X-Box. :)
Bibo Ergo Sum.
I bought a Dreamcast so I could work on the DC Linux project, but I've already bought two games for it and I intend to buy more. PC's beat the crap out of consoles in terms of graphics and speed. The whole point of having a console, other than the hack value, is to be able to put in a game and spend a few hours playing it without crashes, rebooting, compatibility problems, or someone killing your game by sending you an instant message. I'm willing to bet that nearly everyone involved in DC hacking also owns a few shrinkwrapped games. That's where Sega makes its money. Just because someone wants to hack a console doesn't mean they don't also want to have some mindless fun with Crazy Taxi or Armada.
-John
Don't forget that Linux is at a much further stage of development for the Dreamcast. It's available at http://linuxdc.sourceforge.net/
To be honest, it's a little more like the PSX Net Yaroze scheme, which made cut down development kits available to the general public and educational establishments. In that case it was an official product, supported by Sony. In this case it's unofficial, and Sega's anti-piracy measures may make it more difficult in the future.
Rumours have been around for a while of a PS2 Yaroze, though there's nothing confirmed on that front. Console hackers are allegedly starting to make progress on PS2 programs as well (though still at the level of 'Hello World'...)
Either way it's cool, and as soon as I get some spare time I'll be digging out a suitable cable and starting to put together some DC programs...
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
Dreamcast had a proprietary "GD-ROM" drive that has a capacity of 1Mb or so I
:)
"1mb"? That's not real impressive... I mean you can fit 1.44mb on a floppy.... oh you meant 1gb right?
http://www.bootyproject.org
OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
From the geek in me, that's really cool!
From the logical side in me... If the developers hacking these systems would concentrate their obvious talent into something like perfecting support on standard PC/Mac etc hardware I think it may be more benificial to the community at large.
As the Dreamcast will be totaly revamped in its next iteration (probably), making this port almost useless. If this port only runs in backward compatibility mode, whats the point? And to what end other than a cool hack that gets posted on /. does this have. Are all the pimple faced kids who are playing games on theirs going to rush out and download a port of BSD to run on their systems? If they have a burner to make the CD, don't they already have hardware that's probably pretty cool already?
So the intention of getting cheap hardware that can be usefull is now useless? Who becomes the end user? Some little old lady who's grandkid has all the cool toys and has thrown his Dreamcast asside for the new PS2 he finally got off backorder?
I think if the community of hackers is to survive, focus must be applied. How many projects at source forge are duplicates doing the same code for the same end but independant of each other.
And for the troll... wouldn't it be cool to build a cluster of these...
Before you hack that fish... think about why your doing it.
AF-Design, web development.
The only big show stopper for me is thwe lack of storage. Unlike tyhe ps2, the DC has now usb or firewire ports, which means that adding a hdd ain't going to be easy. In fact, does anyone know if adding a HDD to the DC is doable?
GiraffeSville, a place anyone can call home
Sega are due to release a limited edition Dreamcast in Japan soon, which is unable to play the bootable cds, and also other CDs such as the GameShark, Action Replay. They then plan to introduce the same technology into the normal Dreamcasts.
There's loads of other info about DC emulation at www.boob.co.uk and Edge magazine (in the UK) recently had an article about DC emulation.
My understanding was that the Dreamcast had a proprietary "GD-ROM" drive that has a capacity of 1Mb or so I asked Is this being used a the boot device for NetBSD?
So I dug around, it looks like the DC is actually capable of booting off a standard ISO-9660 CD-ROM.
Interesting? I thought so... Here are some really interesting links on Dreamcast Software Programming and Hardware programming.
It's incredible what's going on. What else has been ported to the DC?