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Reflections on Challenger
Adam Attarian writes "CNN's Miles O'Brien (no relation to the dude on Star Trek) has an excellent column on NASA's reflection of the Challenger explosion 15 years ago, and how they are guarding against "go-fever" as much as possible. The article also talks about how detailed and precise NASA engineers are now, and how mathmatical statistics mean hardly anything anymore. This is an excellent read. Hopefully Dubya won't cut NASA's budget more than it all ready has. Those guys are all ready pretty much running on fumes."
When Challenger was launched, the temperature was not only well below the temperature range for which it had been designed. It had exceeded its design specs, true, and been tested at colder temperatures--bot not as cold as the launch day temperature.
Launching under those terms was criminally neglicent, and should have been prosecuted as either mansalughter or (insert local name for "criminally negligent homicide" here).
It wasn't a technical failure, any more than it's a design problem that kills you when you slam your car into a brick wall at 100mph.
>Star Wars again?! Man, I mean didn't they learn anything the first time around?
Uhh, that you can spend the other super power out of existence like that?
The USSR didn't just fall down; it was pushed. It would have happened
in another 30-50 years anyway, but responding to the Reagan buildup
finished them offf. Gorbachev wouldn't have had to gamble (and lose)
with glasnost and perestroika (sp?) without the pressure that trying
to keep up placed on their system.
>To me, a missile defense system like star wars suffers many of
>the same problems as pr0n filters. Sure, they can catch titties, but
>they also catch baby's butts, or a picture of somone's tattoo, or a
>tan sofa...
I'm not *to* worried about shooting down sofas lobbed into ballistic
trajectories . . .
>These missile detectors don't know the difference between
>a missile and a weather balloon.
The velocity is a *wee* bit different.
>Much less a missile and an identical
>decoy missile coming from the same vacinity.e
This misunderstands the nature of the defense. The system (and this
applies specifically to the old USSR, but also to others) doesn't
need to be 100%, but rather enough to interfere with the attack.
Aside from Russia, there's noone who could launch enough decoys
anyway.
hawk
"Tons" of radioactive material? Cassini carries 3 RTGs (total of 33 kg of plutonium dioxide) and several smaller radioisotope heater units (33.6 CI of fuel and 1.4 oz total weight PER unit). Ref: RTGs and heaters. So there's approximately 72 pounds (for the metric-challenged) of PU-238 onboard. A "metric ton" is 2200 pounds. Methinks you are off by a factor of at least 30. (60 if you really meant "tons")
The RTGs are *DESIGNED* to prevent releasing the fuel into the environment. You can question the adequacy of the design and invent scenarios where it fails but you CANNOT state that the engineers at JPL, NASA, and various contractors are not taking the risk seriously.
Next, we DO NOT know our solar system. The discovery of active vulcanism on Io, potenital for water ice and liquid water on Europa, and questions about the atmosphere on Titan are relatively recent and the result of sending space probes to Jupiter and Saturn. Data on *ALL* the planets remain sketchy. This same information helps us develop an understanding of planetrary geology and meterology that applies to understanding Earth's environment as well (a good theory should accomodate observations on more than just one planet).
Heck, we don't understand the planet we live on that well. Ever hear of Earth Observation System (EOS)? Where do you think data on global climate changes, upper atmosphere properties (ozone depletion at the poles), or some of the observations of the Pacific and Atlantic thermal osciliations come from? NASA operates ALL those programs.
The *only* mission categories that are economically viable today are communications satellites, earth observation, maybe remote imaging (commercial "spy sats"), maybe weather. Government (DoD, NASA, NOAA in the US) has to fund everything else and did much of the work to make the rest possible. As much as we'd like it, private industry has not raised the capital necessary to do it on its own (for many reasons, political, economic, and technical).
Finally, we don't know WHEN humanity will NEED a real space capability. We CAN afford the research now. It's foolish on several levels to not do it.
The traditional argument over the NASA budget has been about the manned spaceflight program. Which has been a political beast since its inception.
And while I am not employed as a "rocket scientist" today, I studied to be one (aero astro engineering major) and can tell you EXACTLY where I was for most of the Mercury and Gemini launches, the Apollo flights, Shuttle 1st flight, and yes, Challenger.
Somebody enlighten me about any real benefits of the space program.
(all shamelessly swiped from the 'net; do a google search on "benefits NASA"):
Computer Technology - NASA Spinoffs
GROUND PROCESSING SCHEDULING SYSTEM - Computer-based scheduling system that uses artificial intelligence to manage thousands of overlapping activities involved in launch preparations of NASA's Space Shuttles. The NASA technology was licensed to a new company which developed commercial applications that provide real-time planning and optimization of manufacturing operations, integrated supply chains, and customer orders.uu
SEMICONDUCTOR CUBING - NASA initiative led to the Memory Short StackÅ, a three-dimensional semiconductor package in which dozens of integrated circuits are stacked one atop another to form a cube, offering faster computer processing speeds, higher levels of integration, lower power requirements than conventional chip sets, and dramatic reduction in the size and weight of memory-intensive systems, such as medical imaging devices.
STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS - This NASA program, originally created for spacecraft design, has been employed in a broad array of non-aerospace applications, such as the automobile industry, manufacture of machine tools, and hardware designs.
WINDOWS VISUAL NEWS READER (Win Vn) - Software program developed to support payload technical documentation at Kennedy Space Center, allowing the exchange of technical information among a large group of users. WinVn is an enabling technology product that provides countless people with Internet access otherwise beyond their grasp, and it was optimized for organizations that have direct Internet access.
AIR QUALITY MONITOR - Utilizing a NASA-developed, advanced analytical technique software package, an air quality monitor system was created, capable of separating the various gases in bulk smokestack exhaust streams and determining the amount of individual gases present within the stream for compliance with smokestack emission standards.
VIRTUAL REALITY - NASA-developed research allows a user, with assistance from advanced technology devices, to figuratively project oneself into a computer-generated environment, matching the user's head motion, and, when coupled with a stereo viewing device and appropriate software, creates a telepresence experience.
Other spinoffs in this area include: Advanced keyboards, Customer Service Software, Database Management System, Laser Surveying, Aircraft controls, Lightweight Compact Disc, Expert System Software, Microcomputers, and Design Graphics.
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Consumer/Home/Recreation - NASA Spinoffs
ENRICHED BABY FOOD - A microalgae-based, vegetable-like oil called Formulaid developed from NASA-sponsored research on long duration space travel, contains two essential fatty acids found in human milk but not in most baby formulas, believed to be important for infants' mental and visual development.
WATER PURIFICATION SYSTEM - NASA-developed municipal-size water treatment system for developing nations, called the Regenerable Biocide Delivery Unit, uses iodine rather than chlorine to kill bacteria.
SCRATCH-RESISTANT LENSES - A modified version of a dual ion beam bonding process developed by NASA involves coating the lenses with a film of diamond-like carbon that not only provides scratch resistance, but also decreases surface friction, reducing water spots.
POOL PURIFICATION - Space technology designed to sterilize water on long-duration spacecraft applied to swimming pool purification led to a system that uses two silver-copper alloy electrodes that generate silver and copper ions when an electric current passes through them to kill bacteria and algae without chemicals.
RIBBED SWIMSUIT - NASA-developed riblets applied to competition swimsuits resulted in flume testing of 10 to 15 percent faster speeds than any other world class swim-suit due to the small, barely visible grooves that reduce friction and aerodynamic drag by modifying the turbulent airflow next to the skin.
GOLF BALL AERODYNAMICS - A recently designed golf ball, which has 500 dimples arranged in a pattern of 60 spherical triangles, employs NASA aerodynamics technology to create a more symmetrical ball surface, sustaining initial velocity longer and producing a more stable ball flight for better accuracy and distance.
PORTABLE COOLERS/WARMERS - Based on a NASA-inspired space cooling system employing thermoelectric technology, the portable cooler/warmer plugs into the cigarette lighters of autos, recreational vehicles, boats, or motel outlets. Utilizes one or two miniaturized modules delivering the cooling power of a 10-pound block of ice and the heating power of up to 125 degrees Fahrenheit.
SPORTS TRAINING - Space-developed cardio-muscular conditioner helps athletes increase muscular strength and cardiovascular fitness through kinetic exercise.
ATHLETIC SHOES - Moon Boot material encapsulated in running shoe midsoles improve shock absorption and provides superior stability and motion control.
Other spinoffs in this area include: Dustbuster, shock-absorbing helmets, home security systems, smoke detectors, flat panel televisions, high-density batteries, trash compactors, food packaging and freeze-dried technology, cool sportswear, sports bras, hair styling appliances, fogless ski goggles, self-adjusting sunglasses, composite golf clubs, hang gliders, art preservation, and quartz crystal timing equipment.
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Environmental and Resource Management - NASA Spinoffs
MICROSPHERES - The first commercial products manufactured in orbit are tiny microspheres whose precise dimensions permit their use as reference standards for extremely accurate calibration of instruments in research and industrial laboratories. They are sold for applications in environmental control, medical research, and manufacturing.
SOLAR ENERGY - NASA-pioneered photovoltaic power system for spacecraft applications was applied to programs to expand terrestrial applications as a viable alternative energy source in areas where no conventional power source exists.
WEATHER FORECASTING AID - Space Shuttle environmental control technology led to the development of the Barorator which continuously measures the atmospheric pressure and calculates the instantaneous rate of change.
FOREST MANAGEMENT - A NASA-initiated satellite scanning system monitors and maps forestation by detecting radiation reflected and emitted from trees.
SENSORS FOR ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROL - NASA development of an instrument for use in space life support research led to commercial development of a system to monitor an industrial process stream to assure that the effluent water's pH level is in compliance with environmental regulations.
WIND MONITOR - Development of Jimsphere wind measurement balloon for space launches allows for making high resolution measurements of the wind profile for meteorological studies and predictions.
TELEMETRY SYSTEMS - A spinoff company formed to commercialize NASA high-data-rate telemetry technology, manufactures a high-speed processing system for commercial communications applications.
PLANT RESEARCH - NASA research on future moon and Mars bases is investigating using plants for food, oxygen, and water to reduce the need for outside supplies. This research utilizes Hydroponics (liquid nutrient solutions) instead of soil to support plant growth and finds applications for vegetable production on Earth.
FIRE RESISTANT MATERIAL - Materials include chemically-treated fabric for sheets, uniforms for hazardous material handlers, crew's clothing, furniture, interior walls of submersibles and auto racer and refueler suits.
RADIATION INSULATION - Aluminized polymer film is highly effective radiation barrier for both manned and unmanned spacecraft. Variations of this space-devised material are also used as an energy conservation technique for homes and offices. The materials are placed between wall studs and exterior facing before siding or between roof support and roof sheathing. The radiant barrier blocks 95% of radiant energy. Successful retrofit installations include schools and shrink wrap ovens.
Other spinoffs in this area include: Whale identification method, environmental analysis, noise abatement, pollution measuring devices, pollution control devices, smokestack monitor, radioactive leak detector, earthquake prediction system, sewage treatment, energy saving air conditioning, and air purification.
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Health and Medicine - NASA Spinoffs
DIGITAL IMAGING BREAST BIOPSY SYSTEM - The LORAD Stereo Guide Breast Biopsy system incorporates advanced Charge Coupled Devices (CCDs) as part of a digital camera system. The resulting device images breast tissue more clearly and efficiently. Known as stereotactic large-core needle biopsy, this nonsurgical system developed with Space Telescope Technology is less traumatic and greatly reduces the pain, scarring, radiation exposure, time, and money associated with surgical biopsies.
BREAST CANCER DETECTION - A solar cell sensor is positioned directly beneath x-ray film, and determines exactly when film has received sufficient radiation and has been exposed to optimum density. Associated electronic equipment then sends a signal to cut off the x-ray source. Reduction of mammography x-ray exposure reduces radiation hazard and doubles the number of patient exams per machine.
LASER ANGIOPLASTY - Laser angioplasty with a "cool" type of laser, caller an excimer laser, does not damage blood vessel walls and offers precise non-surgical cleanings of clogged arteries with extraordinary precision and fewer complications than in balloon angioplasty.
ULTRASOUND SKIN DAMAGE ASSESSMENT - Advanced instrument using NASA ultrasound technology enables immediate assessment of burn damage depth, improving patient treatment, and may save lives in serious burn cases.
HUMAN TISSUE STIMULATOR - Employing NASA satellite technology, the device is implanted in the body to help patient control chronic pain and involuntary motion disorders through electrical stimulation of targeted nerve centers or particular areas of the brain.
COOL SUIT - Custom-made suit derived from space suits circulates coolant through tubes to lower patient's body/ temperature, producing dramatic improvement of symptoms of multiple sclerosis, cerebral palsy, spina bifida and other conditions.
PROGRAMMABLE PACEMAKER - Incorporating multiple NASA technologies, the system consists of the implant and a physician's computer console containing the programming and a data printer. Communicates through wireless telemetry signals.
OCULAR SCREENING - NASA image processing techniques are used to detect eye problems in very young children. An electronic flash from a 35-millimeter camera sends light into the child's eyes, and a photorefractor analyzes the retinal reflexes, producing an image of each eye.
AUTOMATED URINALYSIS - NASA fluid dynamics studies helped development of system that automatically extracts and transfers sediment from urine sample to an analyzer microscope, replacing the manual centrifuge method.
MEDICAL GAS ANALYZER - Astronaut-monitoring technology used to develop system to monitor operating rooms for analysis of anesthetic gasses and measurement of oxygen, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen concentrations to assure proper breathing environment for surgery patients.
VOICE-CONTROLLED WHEELCHAIR - NASA teleoperator and robot technology used to develop chair and manipulator that respond to 35 one-word voice commands utilizing a minicomputer to help patient perform daily tasks, like picking up packages, opening doors, and turning on appliances.
Other spinoffs in this area include: Arteriosclerosis detection, ultrasound scanners, automatic insulin pump, portable x-ray device, invisible braces, dental arch wire, palate surgery technology, clean room apparel, implantable heart aid, MRI, bone analyzer, and cataract surgery tools.
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Industrial Productivity/Manufacturing Technology - NASA Spinoffs
MAGNETIC LIQUIDS - Based on the NASA-developed ferrofluid concept involving synthetic fluids that can be positioned and controlled by magnetic force, the ferrofluidic seal was initially applied in a zero-leakage, nonwearing seal for the rotating shaft of a system used to make semiconductor chips, solving a persistent problemãcontamination due to leaking seals.
WELDING SENSOR SYSTEM - Laser-based automated welder for industrial use incorporates a laser sensor system originally designed for Space Shuttle External Tank to track the seam where two pieces of metal are to be joined, measures gaps and minute misfits, and automatically corrects the welding torch distance and height.
MICROLASERS - Based on a concept for optical communications over interplanetary distances, microlasers were developed for the commercial market to transmit communication signals and to drill, cut, or melt materials.
MAGNETIC BEARING SYSTEM - Bearings developed from Space Shuttle designs support moving machinery without physical contact, permitting motion without friction or wear, and are now used in electric power generation, petroleum refining, machine tool operation, and natural gas pipelines.
ENGINE LUBRICANT - A NASA-developed plasma-sprayed coating is used to coat valves in a new, ten-inch-long, four-cylinder rotary engine, eliminating the need for lubricating the rotorcam, which has no crankshaft, flywheel, distributor, or water pump.
INTERACTIVE COMPUTER TRAINING - Known as Interactive Multimedia Training (IMT), originally developed to train astronauts and space operations personnel, now utilized by the commercial sector to train new employees and upgrade worker skills, using a computer system that engages all the senses, including text, video, animation, voice, sounds, and music.
HIGH-PRESSURE WATERSTRIPPING - Technology developed for preparing Space Shuttle solid rocket boosters first evolved into the U.S. Air Force's Large Aircraft Robotic Paint Stripping (LARPS) system, and now used in the commercial airline industry, where the waterjet processing reduces coating removal time by 90 percent, using only water at ultra-high pressures up to 55,000 psi.
ADVANCED WELDING TORCH - Based on the Variable Polarity Plasma Arc welding technology, a handheld torch originally developed for joining light alloys used in NASA's External Tank, is now used by major appliance manufacturers for sheet metal welding.
Other spinoffs in this area include: Gasoline vapor recovery, self-locking fasteners, machine tool software, laser wire stripper, lubricant coating process, wireless communications, engine coatings, and engine design.
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Public Safety - NASA Spinoffs
RADIATION HAZARD DETECTOR - NASA technology has made commercially available new, inexpensive, conveniently carried device for protection of people exposed to potentially dangerous levels of microwave radiation. Weighing only 4 ounces and about the size of a cigarette pack, it can be carried in a shirt pocket or clipped to a belt. Unit sounds an audible alarm when microwave radiation reaches a preset level.
EMERGENCY RESPONSE ROBOT - Remotely-operated robot reduces human injury levels by performing hazardous tasks that would otherwise be handled by humans.
PERSONAL ALARM SYSTEM - Pen-sized ultrasonic transmitter used by prison guards, teachers, the elderly, and disabled to call for help is based on space telemetry technology. Pen transmits a silent signal to receiver that will display the exact location of the emergency.
EMERGENCY RESCUE CUTTERS - Lightweight cutters for freeing accident victims from wreckage developed using NASA pyrotechnic technology.
FIREMAN'S AIR TANKS - Lighter-weight firefighter's air tanks have been developed. New back-pack system weighs only 20 lbs. for 30 minute air supply, 13 lbs. less than conventional firefighting tanks. They are pressurized at 4,500 psia (twice current tanks). A warning device tells the fireman when he or she is running out of air.
PERSONAL STORM WARNING SYSTEM - Lightning detector gives 30-minute warning to golfers, boaters, homeowners, business owners, and private pilots.
SELF-RIGHTING LIFE RAFT - Developed for the Apollo program, fully inflates in 12 seconds and protects lives during extremely adverse weather conditions with self-righting and gravity compensation features.
Other spinoffs in this area include: Storm warning services (Doppler radar), firefighters' radios, lead poison detection, fire detector, flame detector, corrosion protection coating, protective clothing, and robotic hands.
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Transportation - NASA Spinoffs
STUDLESS WINTER TIRES - Viking Lander parachute shroud material is adapted and used to manufacture radial tires, increasing the tire material's chainlike molecular structure to five times the strength of steel should increase tread life by 10,000 miles.
BETTER BRAKES - New, high-temperature composite space materials provide for better brake linings. Applications includes trucks, industrial equipment and passenger cars.
TOLLBOOTH PURIFICATION - A laminar airflow technique used in NASA clean rooms for contamination-free assembly of space equipment is used at tollbooths on bridges and turnpikes to decrease the toll collector's inhalation of exhaust fumes.
WEIGHT SAVING TECHNOLOGY - NASA research on composite materials is used to achieve a 30-percent weight reduction in a twin-turbine helicopter, resulting in a substantial increase in aircraft performance.
IMPROVED AIRCRAFT ENGINE - Multiple NASA developed technological advancements resulted in a cleaner, quieter, more economical commercial aircraft engine known as the high bypass turbofan, featuring a 10-percent reduction in fuel consumption, lower noise levels, and emission reductions of oxides of nitrogen, carbon monoxide, and unburned hydrocarbons.
ADVANCED LUBRICANTS - An environmental-friendly lubricant designed to support the Space Shuttle Mobile Launcher Platform led to the development of three commercial lubricants for railroad track maintenance, for electric power company corrosion prevention, and as a hydraulic fluid with an oxidation life of 10,000 hours.
ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEM - The Flywheel Energy Storage system, derived from two NASA-sponsored energy storage studies, is a chemical-free, mechanical battery that harnesses the energy of a rapidly spinning wheel and stores it as electricity with 50 times the capacity of a lead-acid battery, very useful for electric vehicles.
NEW WING DESIGN FOR CORPORATE JETS - NASA-developed computer programs resulted in an advanced, lighter, more aerodynamically-efficient new wing for Gulfstream business aircraft.
AIDS TO SCHOOL BUS DESIGN - Manufacturer uses three separate NASA-developed technologies originally developed for aviation and space use in their design and testing of a new school bus chassis. These technologies are a structural analysis computer program infrared stress measurement system, and a ride quality meter system.
Other spinoffs in this area include: Safer bridges, emission testing, airline wheelchairs, electric car, auto design, methane-powered vehicles, windshear prediction, and aircraft design analysis.
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Personal cabin pressure altitude monitor to contribute to public aviation safety
Shuttle Technology to Benefit Patients on Earth
New, Wide-ranging Applications of Satelite Pictures
Neurolab Team To Discuss Results, Benefits
Nasa Research Helps Mold Better Products
Nasa Space Suit Gives Boy His First Day in the Sun
Flight Experiment Smoothes Flow Over Supersonic Wing
NASA Technology To Help Pilots Taxi More Efficiently
Fire Imaging Device for Firefighters
Benefits Derived from Manned Space Missions
Nasa's Innovative Device to Aid Knee Injury
Robotic Helicopter for Public Safety
European Satellite Telecommunications Improve Maritime Safety
Nasa Sensors Provide Safe Platform for Volcano Studies
Non-Polluting Methanol Fuel Cell for Zero-Emission Vehicles
Nasa Research in Space May Redesign Household Windows
Nasa Technology Creates Market for Recycled Milk Bottles
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The Shuttle Radar Topography Mission set out to generate the most accurate topographical map of the Earth. The data recorded will enable engineers and scientists to develop safer navigation techniques and better communication systems.
Two girls who can not tolerate exposure to either the sun's strong ultraviolet light or even bright indoor lighting, each received a special UV protection suit that was developed from space-based technology.
A miniaturized ventricular-assist pump has been successfully implanted into several people. Initially called the NASA/DeBakey heart pump, it is based in part on technology used in space shuttle fuel pumps.
Winging their way into toy stores are Hasbro Aero Nerf Gliders, benefiting from NASA wind tunnel and aerodynamic expertise.
Properties of metal alloys studied for the space station program have sparked a new line of golf clubs. Shape memory metal gives the most seasoned golfer new control and feel.
BSR created blanket insulation kits based on NASA Space Shuttle Thermal Protection System materials and had the first products bear a seal from the U.S. Space Foundation indicating their space origin.
Based on award-winning NASA telerobotics software, VEVI4 is a powerful tool used to represent complex devices graphically in a 3-D environment. Depicted here is the Dante II vehicle during its descent into Mount Spurr, Alaska.
Building the Boeing 777 brought about the use of NASA innovations, from lightweight composite materials to the modern glass cockpit and aircraft control systems.
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How detailed and precise they are now?! They have always been that detailed and precise. There's a reason we have an expression comparing difficult things to "rocket science". Throwing several hundred tons of metal into orbit (or beyond) without enough gas to recover from a gross error, in situations where you get it right the first time, or else (at best) lose years of research an planning, or (at worst) lose the lives of the crew of a manned flight, is amongst the most difficult feats of engineering imagineable.
What NASA has now is management too scared of being raked over the coals again for being criminally stupid. Go reread accounts of the Challenger investigation... the engineering was fine. That was a political and managerial fuckup of biblical proportions--"screw the freezing temperatures and the unknowns, we want that ship up there when Gipper gives his State of the Union address."
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WHOA!! Ken and Barbie are having TOO MUCH FUN!! It must be the NEGATIVE IONS!!
I remember where I was when Challenger exploded. I was in bed, sleeping. When I woke up, I was mad at myself for sleeping in. It was the first shuttle launch I missed.
When I got to school, one of my friends told me about it, and I thought he was joking. He was allways making fun of me for liking science so much.
When school started, the principal made the annoucement about the explosion, and we had a moment of silence for the astronuats and thier families.
When we got to science class, we went to the library to watch the launch, then we talked about "when sience goes wrong".
I think this is when my childhood dream of being an astronaut died.
I used to laugh at my parents, when they said they could remember where they were when Kennedy was shot. I don't anymore.
What I am wondering is if Fortune 500 companies go out of their way to set up their servers with Triple Mirroring Hard Disk setups, why doesn't NASA also use doubly redundant cabling? I mean this is billions of dollars and lives we're talking about here. Shouldn't they be extra sure? It seems to me that one backup isn't enough
On the ground, the redundancy NASA uses is *scary*. However, on the orbiter, you are facing some very solid scientific principles that are set in stone. One is the weight to launch ratio.. the Saturn 5 was the largest thing to ever move.. and it was right down to the pound.. as you add more equipment, cables, backup machines, HDD's, you name it you add more weight. More weight means more fuel. More fuel means more size. More size means more fuel. It becomes an exponential expansion that at some point kills the ability to move.
Larry Niven goes into this pretty heavily in "Playgrounds of the Mind" and describes *why* once you get to Dyson Spheres, Ringworlds, or Generation Ships (heinleins variant) you are looking at Nuclear or Solar (radiation ram-scoops or flare-riders) due to the limitations of conventional energy ships.
basically, the SPace Program is as safe as it can be. The fact that we have *never* lost a ship in space, and that we have lost 7 on the challenger and 3 in apollo ground fires, means we have one *hell* of a safety record, one that shines compared to any other industry. Compare ours with the Russian or Chinese and you will see what I mean.
basically, Astronauts *know* it is risky, and they accept this.. the problem with the Challenger misfortune was that it *was* within their control. And the instruction booklet *FROM* morton thiokol explaining the O-ring seals specifically *states* that the O0rings may not work in cold temperatures. *THAT* was the basis of the suit...
bowing to media pressure is a bad thing, especially when 7 peoples lives are on the line.
Anyway.. I hope that sort of answered your concern.
maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
Here.. consider yourself enlightened.
Like programmable pacemakers? Breast exams? Ultrasound? thank NASA.
http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
How many starving children could be fed with the money it takes to launch one spacecraft? NASA is a parasite on our society and needs to be put on hold until we can sort out our real problems.
Read a few articles on what the space program has done *for* the people here on earth before you go bashing it, please.
A few of the things developed for the Space program that you use *every* day..
titanium
high impact plastics
gold plated connectors
anti-fog wipes and products for glasses/etc
growth methods for plants that produce higher yields/lower growing space
new energy technologies (solar, specifically)
advances in metallurgy *other* than titanium.
The space program has a *huge* impact on daily life, that most people do not realize. There used to be a good magazine called "spinoff" that listed these things, why they were developed, and their use in every day life.
That is basically like saying "we should stop gaming development until we get world hunger stopped". gaming drives, in a lot of ways, the bigger faster better development boom we have had in microelectronics lately. The space program is the same way. And when NASA comes up with new technology, it sells liscences to it to help pay for itself. And remember, a lot of those missions also carry corporate payloads, which also defrays the cost of the missions. Without Nasa, you would *not* have your nifty satellite TV, Satellite Internet, etc etc.
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
You guys all know about the mars orbiter which missed orbit because of a metric (non)conversion error? "Don't-go" fever prevented this thing from getting back on track.
They knew about this error before it was too late, and tried to get the operations people to do a burn to correct its course. However, the operations folks refused because they were worried that it would screw up their schedule (the orbiter was still barely within tolerances). So they went for it and missed.
There are plenty of things wrong with the way NASA does things..
Ok, this had to be said, so I and a few thousand others will:
e
:)
This is a common misperception about the way the government spending works. It isn't as if there is a large pool of money, and the government takes a percentage of it for starving children (insert deserving cause, etc..)
The way it works, is that there are certain amounts that the US public feels is necessary to spend on certain things. These amounts are relatively independent of each other. In that, we will spend $X on starving children weather or not there is a budget surplus or not.
It is also incredibly ignorant to think NASA technology is all about "fucking up other planets." There is an incredible amount of NASA technology incorporated into everyone's daily life. In short: When engineers have to design systems for more hostile environments (space) they can incorporate that technology to make systems for less hostile environments (earth) better.
for more information from NASA, click here
or type http://www.nasa.gov/qanda/why_nasa.html#whyexplor
---Lane
Did I just fall into a trap?
What's the point of moderating?!
---IN 1980 Lennon was shot and everyone thought that, that would be a defining moment in time but it wasn't. The Space Shuttle was.
---Where was I? I had just landed a job a Caldor's making $7.75 and hour, I was quite certain it would be the last job I would ever hold. College? I was making 16K a year!
---I remember hanging out in the TV department watching it go up and hearing the unitiated ooh and aww over how pretty the launch was. I stood behind them muttering, "That ain't right... That's not what it looks like."
---I don't remember the exact phrase but I remember the tone from the control announcer. It was like nothing out of the ordinary happened. It was like, "We have a system failure."
---I remember thinking that there was no system failure there was some dead people and one of them was a school teacher who didn't need to be dead. My Advanced English (whatever that is) teacher Mr. Posner was the alternate. I went and saw him weeks later and he was still visibly upset. "First time I was glad someone was better than me, my God why did this happen?"
---I enrolled at the Community College the next Friday. I decided I was going to be a Journalist based on my theroy that the government set this up to glamorize the program.
This
http://www.blitzbasic.com/
http://www.blitzbasic.com/
Graphics3D 640, 480
An interesting read -- for those of you who haven't seen it is the Appendix written by Feynman to the Challenger Report (otherwise known as the Rogers Commission Report).
t ml
. html
see http://www.ralentz.com/old/space/feynman-report.h
or
http://www.fotuva.org/feynman/challenger-appendix
Political pressuse is NOT gone, it's just being dealt with in a different way. Take the ISS, for example, Nasa is going to do a amazing amount of space walks to get that thing up to specs (iirc 100) in a very short period of time. Nasa is also persueing a very agressive stance on launching (similiar to the state of the shuttle program in 1985). They also are willing to scrap missions over the most simple of things. That's the difference. Nasa's unwillingness to concern itself with such matters in Jan 1986 resulted in the Challenger exploding. Back then, Reagan wanted to promote the "Star Wars" program and the US's "Space might", today Clinton wants to promote the co-operation of several states for a peacful space program. Both are political agenda's, both require a very agressive Space Program. Except today, Nasa gets less money for more missions and does NOT loose people in space. Because they care now. To blame pressure on the repeated mistakes made by Nasa officials in the mid 80's is unreasonable, they made thier choices. Fortunately, today they don't make those choices anymore. They already lost one Shuttle, I doubt they want that to happen again.
On Jan 28 1986 Nasa lauched in conditions that no reasonable person would and it resulted in the death of all those aboard Challenger. You live in Titusville, you remeber how cold it was that mourning? I do, I was standing on the shore of the Indian River, my father took me out of school that day, so i could watch the first civilian go into space. He almost didn't because he knew it was unreasonable to launch the Shuttle that mourning. Everybody did.
Btw, the origional poster was not the person who refered to Bush.
Burn Hollywood Burn
Dude, you forgot Tang(TM).
How could you forget Tang(TM), arguably the beverage with the most extreme orange taste and color known to humankind?
information wants to be expensive...nothing is so valuable as the right information at the right time.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Here we go 'round the mulberry bush. Every time I hear this argument I just shake my head in disbelief at the unscientific approach some take to science. "Let's solve all of our real problems before we go traipsing around in space," they say, again and again.
Well.
First, your starting assumption is faulty. We're never going to "solve all of our real problems" whether we go into space or not. Poverty has been around for thousands of years, and there'll be homeless people and those who get smashed down by circumstance on the first Mars base, or in New New York in the year 3001. Cure diseases instead of spending money on space exploration? How much money did we put into AIDS research in the 1960's? The answer is none, since AIDS didn't exist as a human disease then, and if we insist on spending every available dollar on disease research, that's all we'll ever spend our dollars on. You ask how many children could be fed by the cost of one space vehicle launch. I ask in reply, how many chidren could have been fed by the money poured into automotive development, or the cosmetics industry?
Second, your logical extension is faulty. What is it exactly that blinds you (and all of the others who like to make this argument) to the possibility that the cure for cancer is a chemical that synthesizes only in microgravity? Or that the next clean power supply can't be discovered by scientists trying to figure out how to make a sustainable Moon base? Science at its core is dicovery, and the farther we range from what we know, the more likely it is that we'll dicover something new. Some of the things we need to learn and do for space exploration could (and very often do) produce huge benefits for life here on Earth. Without space exploration, for example, there'd be no satellites. These wondrous little devices do everything from geological surveys and weather mapping to communications. Next time you say that we're wasting money on space travel, try telling that to the family who are still alive because of an accurate forcast for a hurricane path, or the person whose 911 call went through.
Pure science is not and cannot be forced. I agree that we shouldn't throw all of our money into space exploration, but then neither should we pull all of our money away from space exploration. The solution to the problems right next door may very well be "out there."
Virg
What is wrong with all these slashdotters that think NASA needs to be cut all together. Exploration is at the heart of what the human race does. If the same attitude was taken hundreds of years ago, the USA would never have been discovered (ok..the Native Americans already knew it was here and we basically took it from them...bad example), Magellan would never have proved categorically the earth was round etc... Astronomers predict that there is only 100,000 years before a cataclysmic event (probably an asteroid) will make this planet uninhabitable for many years. Simply put, we need space exploration to give us options. Even if no other habitable planet was found, the possibility of waiting out disaster in a space station in orbit is a viable one...especially after a few thousand years of research. I ask you, what better way can our money be spent than to possibly prevent the extinction of the human race?
Why not just drop into the ocean, retrieve and reuse? Idiots.
I was born in the 70's, but even I know about the rockets from the 60's which had a capsule that dropped into the ocean, was retreived, and reused. Now where do you think the satellite that brings you your cable TV stations would fit in that little capsule? On the lap of one of the astronauts? They can just hold it out the window when they get there and then drop back down.
The current shuttle is a multi-purpose, partly re-usable vehicle. Disgustingly expensive, but invented in the 70's. Let's see your plans for a better, more efficient, and less costly model using 1975 technology.
Developers: We can use your help.