Slashdot Mirror
Spidergoats
LandlessGentry writes: "Market Oriented Genetic Manipulation takes a turn for the surreal as two Nigerian dwarf goats named Mille and Muscade have had their genes altered (or more precisely the genes of their parents) so their mammary glands produce spider "silk". The story is here on Forbes.com."
spidergoatse.cx
That was about exactly what I would say- and I would make the point that Stalin's orders were ALSO religiously based. The religion of Athiest Humanism.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
The episode where Homer had the crayon in his brain which made him stupid removed. He just returned to "Screaming Monkey Research" and asked them to put it back in...
Scientist: "We don't play God here."
Homer: "Correction -- You do nothing _but_ play God, and I think you're Octo-parrot would agree."
Octo-parrot: "Rawk! Polly shouldn't be!"
The enemies of Democracy are
There's a lot more to spiders silk than just a few proteins. Spider's silk actually arranges those proteins in rather complex ways. If it were just a matter of producing some proteins and seperating them from a mixture, you could genetically engineer bacteria to do it.
As for ethical concerns...
Numerous SF stories have dealt with all the horrors and benfits of genetic engineering. I can't say as I'm all that worried about it. There are a few concerns I'd have if we started genetically engineering humans, but, in general, I wouldn't even be against that. I don't understand what the problem is here.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
They first came for the spider silk and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a spider.
Then they came for the chitin and I didn't speak up because I wasn't an oyster.
Then they came for the maple syrup and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a tree.
Then they came for the raw dripping human brains and by that time no one was left to speak up.
WWJD for a Klondike Bar?
Why the hell would they do that? The core tenents of Christianity are "be good to each other" and "spread that message around". The teachings of Christ were that one should teach people to be good to each other, no matter what their contribution to society or how "bad" they are (Jesus hung out with the "unclean" and "harlots" and said they all people are worthy). That way the meme of self-sacrifice and being good to each other spreads.
Now, you can cite tons of baggage hung off the side of that message, or you can say "but that society didn't need the message", but I doubt you can say that the core message... the intent... is bad. Look at the original source (Jesus), and those who are revered for their sacrifice in the Catholic church (Mother Teresa).
And yes, I have serious problems with many Christians and some Christian organizations (having marched for Pro Choice and Gay Rights), but having a knee jerk reaction against religion is just as bad as the people who have a knee jerk reaction against technology.
The core concept of most religions and sciences and technologies are the same: to help people. It's amazing that they conflict in people's minds.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Well with the new spidergoats, Spiderman will have to deal with a new enemy.
-- ladies and gentlemen we are floating in space!
Before I start: All of this stuff is going to happen in the future, because if you Americans don't do it, us Canadians will, or the Europeans will, or the Japaneese, or the Chinese, or the Russians. Just because it doesn't fit into your morality doesn't mean much - welcome to globalization, and there isn't diddly you can do about it. All of my arguements follow from this point; You can debate this, but I see it as fact.
This is unrelated, but growing industrial hemp is a crime., but it's perfectly legal in Canada, about 40 miles north of the border. Take a stand on your government's international joke, er, war on drugs, or shut up and move. Listening to americans whine about the Wo(s)D when they all obediantly piss in a bottle to get a job is amusing.
Raising genetically altered mammals for industrial purposes is cool
You ain't seen nothing yet. I picked up a couple books on genetics at Chapters last weekend, just to see what's changed since the last time I took a biology couse (about 8 years ago, in high school). The amount of information being collected on how living organism works is absolutely incredible. People are beginning to apply lithographic techniques - commonly used to make chips - as templates to grow tissues with the ultra-fine blood vessles that before were impossible to grow artificially.
The nanotech people should take a good hard look at nature's nanotech - cells, viruses and how they work - I think that a lot of these advances are happening because engineers are finally getting the tools to work with life. It's potential benefits to mankind are absolutely amazing, and some might argue the risk is too high - maybe so - but someone, somewhere, IS going to do this stuff, because the benefits are too high not to. Chemicals and drugs that cost a fortune can be made cheaply and easily. Biological materials - like orange juice - can be mass produced in a factory, rather than pollute the earth with fertilizier and other pesticides.
Did I get something wrong here? Because the longer I think about it, the sicker I get...
Don't be ignorant and pick up some books and start reading. A lot of the panic out there is by people that don't understand the science - hell, mutations happen all the time and are part of, and required for, all life. It's just like anything else - I'm sure there were people that thought electricity was the work of the devil, and the good 'ol christian right had something to say about the printing press back in the day, too.
I think that by understanding and engineering the base principles of life, we'll be able to understand and evaluate the risks much more intelligently, for the benefit of all of man. These advances are going to happen; Find a way to deal with it. Pick up a book and learn about your good buddy, DNA, and cellular metabolism. A lot has changed since I last looked.
..don't panic
"Thank you, Science. We'll keep the taxpayer dollars rolling in." Actually if you had read the article you'd know that the company's funding comes from their IPO, or in other words PRIVATE INVESTORS. So yes thank you, science for trying to make money, which is what most science is, a capitalist endevour. I really dislike the notion that all science is is publicly funded medical research for the "Good Of Man." Even most cancer research is done by drug companies hoping to get really really rich. And that's the way it should be. So it's silly to critisize scientists for pursueing "worthless" tasks, since they have their motivations.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
I find it a constant source of amazment that a group of people who think nothing of daming rivers for electricity to run their computers, (one of the more environmently friendly forms of energy creation actually).
/.ers are biting on the same story we all rebel against when it's applied to us (internet bad, internet geeks evil) when it's applied to genetic engineering.
How is tinkering with genetic codes more 'playing god' then creating new lakes where there were none before, changing ecological niches, probably causing new species to evolve, to fit the new ecological niches created.
How about the effect from electomagnetic fields? New roads through the countryside?
Face it people, we're playing God. We always have. Chaos theory argues that our existance on this planet will change things, even if we all stood perfectly still and didn't move for all our lives.
Like any technology, there will be ethical considerations, and we'll screw it up occasionaly.
Can we cause irreperable damage? Probably. Can we use the technology to save ourselves? Probably.
On the other hand, one of those cosmic rays could zap one of us just right and randomly cause any given mutation "naturally". Does that make it OK?
Let's face it, we already have plenty of technologies that let us wipe out the planet earth. Anyone who feels like it can use one of them, or the new one. What this gives us is a whole new way to solve problems.
Being an optimist, I like to assume that we will cause more good then harm from new techologies.
Unfortunatly, the media finds it easier to sell (insert medium here) using bad news. So we all hear about 'clones' being evil (most of which assume a clone will be of the memorex variety, not the identical twin reality), and nanotech will destroy the earth, and the internet will cause our children to become porn loving, rocket launcher shooting, black clothing wearing, 3l337 hax0rz.
I find it suprising that so many
Nuff Said.
--
Remove the rocks to send email
On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
All your dangifiknow are belong to us.
Actually, industrial hemp can not be used to produce the same psychoactive effects as its close relative marijuana. In fact, industrial hemp contains a relatively high level of CBD, a chemical that inhibits any effects that the plant's modicum of THC could have on a person.
Check out The Ultimate Web Resource for Hemp.
I do not really feel like arguing the validity of the 'stepping stone' myth regarding marijuana, but I tend to think that it is greatly overstated by its supporters.
What are the implications of creating new transgenic species as biological manufacturing machines for products that aren't throw-away?
I freely admit I haven't thought about it that much, but silk is at the very least, *less* disposable that the products that are usually created by biologicals. Most everything else is food, so that what gets produced goes back into the ecosystem... If the average food product lasts three months before it's consumed, and these spidersilk products last for seven years, say, before wearing out... I wonder what the effect of introducing that lag time into the system will be.
If people are to respect the law, perhaps the law should begin by respecting the people.
What we really have is a crisis of bad governments. Most of the food sent to hungry people either rots in storage and shipment, or is diverted before it ends up in the hands (or stomachs) of the people who are hungry. Aid agencies need more trucks, and better roads. Fewer cows in the EU or the US will not feed people in Africa. Better governments in the third world will.
One thing that I'm a bit suspicious about is this quote:
While there may be some biochemical similarities, my understanding is that part of the reason that spider silk is as strong as it is is because of the precise physical arrangement of the protein fibers relative to each other, and that the spiders' glands contain special protein machinery that guarantees correct alignment. IOW, even if you can get the protein, you still have to "spin" it in a special way to get the properties you want, and the goats aren't equipped to do that. So there's a serious question about whether or not the engineered silk will actually be useful. Don't start saving for your ultralight climbing ropes yet.
There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.
Got Silk?
The future looks more exciting than ever!
rr
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Raising genetically altered mammals for industrial purposes is cool, but growing industrial hemp is a crime. Custom-designing living beings is all good, but ingesting RU486 in the first trimester is murder.
Did I get something wrong here? Because the longer I think about it, the sicker I get...
We thieves, we liars, we vandals, and poets. Networked agents of Cthulhu Borealis.
Yes, there are some issues with patents that are getting in the way, but that has more to do with European bureaucracy than "profit hungry capitalists" (who happy to have food hungry mouths to feed themselves, so of course they want to make money).
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
Mothballed air force base...that means it's out of business. The government got rid of the base (that means it's not government property any more). If you actually read the article, this goat thing was done *privately*, with private funds, on private time, and on private property. The U.S. Government is deserving of enough scorn without making up false rumors.
I was going to rant about cruelty to goats, which is a hot button issue for half the readership of slashdot, and a hobby for the other half. But then I realized that compared with dairy cattle, who have essentially the same things done to them on an industrial scale, these goats don't have it too bad.
Scientists at an undisclosed facility in New Jersey, were able to successfuly clown spiders with goat tits. These spiders could be mass produced and due to their small sized, easily shipped to people in need of milk. Also in news, salvation army has laid off 90% of their workers, in order to generate enough money to buy the patents to this process and the genes of the booby spider.
Trust the source!
Sorry to contradict you, but this has been done already, and the genetically modified rice has met what they're calling "consumer resistance". That means the people who need it are not buying it. Because, presumably, they have no money as well as no food. Until we start caring about world hunger GE will just be used the same way every other technology is used - to insulate the already wealthy from the world around them.
<rant>We already have a food surplus. The USA and EU feed their grain to animals instead of people, because "economics" says that your hamburger is more important than the life of someone you will never meet. Don't get me started on overfed "right to life" hypocrates. </rant>