Slashdot Mirror
World's Largest Crystals
el_guapo writes: "OK, this is just cool. From here, a mining company in Mexico opened up a couple of chambers containing the world's largest known crystals. From the article 'Walking into either of these caves is like stepping into a gigantic geode.'" Looks pretty impressive.
I've got a picture of Rick James smoking a piece of crystal meth twice the size of those things!
it's not only possible, it's DEFINATELY true.
It's mostly the loss of moisture in the air, and the oils in the skins of people touching the rocks.
This is why the best caves are well-kept secrets by real spelunker orgs.
These caves will be "dead" in 20 years if they condition the air and bring tourists in.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
what I don't understand is, why this guy wasn't at least mentioned in the Darwin Awards. . .
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
read the article. One guy already died down there (supposedly crushed when he tried to break off one of the crystals - I'm sure they covered-up the autopsy findings. . . _)
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
(kinda weird)
As a kid I bought two geodes from the gift shop of the Kirkpatrick Center/Omniplex in Oklahoma City. Kinda cool to a kid, I liked one best since it had a neater crystal in the middle.
Fast forward a couple of years and one of my teachers had a magnet made from hot gluing a geode to a magnetic disk. The funny thing was it was the other half to one of the geodes I had bought (the one I didn't like as much)!
Not proud of it but I stole it from her at the end of the year. (Sorry Mrs. Christie!)
"Dogs and cats, living together...it's mass hysteria!"
I couldn't read it either. If I had moderator points I'd give em to you.
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Infuriate left and right
Please refer to [this post], who's author understood what I'm saying.
So we do what you say: document and study it, record it to pictures and video, and then seal the cave from all humanity.
Once sealed, *their existence is immaterial*. The crystals could vaporize, and no one would be the wiser; or they could treble in size, and no one would know. No living thing would benefit from their existence... nor would any living thing be harmed by their loss.
In effect, they become an artifact of history and their present-day existence would be mere supposition and imagination.
That's infinitely more wasteful of their existence than opening up the caves to throngs of tourists.
If you really need to get tweaked about something, then please get tweaked about something that counts. There are plenty of things happening in the Brazilian rainforests that are having deep and lasting negative impact on living plants and creatures.
For starters, you can get uppity about the destruction caused by the rock hounds who are supplying all the new age shops with their "harmonious" crystals. Most of those crystals are obtained through extremely destructive practices. Yet not a single crystal-worshipping purchasers cares to acknowledge that they're supporting the destruction of rainforests. Hypocrites.
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Chow some valium, pal. It'll do you a world of good.
If you can find contentment and fulfilment just 'knowing' that the rocks are there, then they don't actually have to be there: it's a Schrodinger's Cat situation.
Myself, I'll need to see 'em to believe 'em. I'd prefer to see them in their natural setting, and I'd very much prefer that setting to last millenia and enthrall millions of people.
If they're shut off from view, well, then, they might as well be destroyed. If I have to look at old pictures or otherwise imagine that I'm seeing them, then I can just as well imagine something even more grand. The existance or non-existance of the marvel becomes immaterial, if no one's allowed to see it.
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"it may be more destructive than it sounds"
...and yet you continue to assist in the destruction of cave environments, by actively spelunking.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
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So fucking what if giant crystals don't 'do anything remotely useful'?
It's not like you do, either, sitting on your pale white ass and posting to slashdot.
Just because it exists does not mean it has to be exploited.
--K
Fucking monkeys.
bwahahahahahaha
:-)
funniest thing I've read all day
Vidi, Vici, Veni
It's my understanding that air conditioning systems have the useful side effect of also dehumidifying. This is why on many cars, choosing the 'defog' setting to direct air toward your windshield will also turn the air conditioner on, so this doesn't sound like it would be a huge problem. Of course, you'd also want some kind of filter.
Vidi, Vici, Veni
I agree with most of what you say, but then there was this:
To me, this seems to paralell the ideals behind free software. Everyone is given equal acess to the finite software resiource (coders can only work so hard), and everyone can appreciate it, all in the sense of irony. And if a microsofty can be one over for Linux or BSD, everyone wins.
Now, I like free software as much as the next guy, but when the idea is stretched and diluted in such strange manners as this, it just makes me want to dig my fingers up into that space between my eyeballs and eyelids, reach way back there, grab some fistfuls of brain and yank it out as my eyeballs pop out to make way and then dangle by the optic nerves providing a dizzying view of the ground below.
Wow, sometimes it just feels good to rant. What I'm trying to say is that to express the idea of equal access, you need not reach for an analogy to source code - especially when the topic you are discussing has absolutely nothing to do with software.
Vidi, Vici, Veni
Like, wow, you could like power California, like with the vibes from these harmonies of nature, man.
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Just a better browser. My mozilla, though I can see the story in the source, doesn't display dick.
Right about now I wish
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Don't people have any appreciation for what mother nature gives us? We all know the adage: "Don't fuck with mother nature!"
*cough*hurricanes*cough*tornadoes*cough*earthquake s*cough*
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maybe it's a swamp cooler.
All your events are belong to us.
Instead of digging them out, using the raw material and destorying such a wonder, they're actually going to make the place accessible to the public, including AC to handle the heat.
Score 1 for ecotourism, even if it's just some really huge crystals.
How can you be eco-friendly if you're using air conditioning?
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Does anyone actually have a Java program designed to control air traffic, or for the operation of a nuclear facility?
I just read the story, and I'm impressed by the stance the mining company is taking. Instead of chopping up these huge crystals and selling them to collectors and museums, they're gradually cooling the 100-degree caves in order to show them off to the public.
A plan like this keeps natural wonders like this intact and let's us general public take a peek and what's going on inside our planet.
On a side note, doesn't this look like the sort of thing you always see on cheezy movies abiout the deep underground? Not so chessy after all, it seems.
Stupid like a fox!
bunch of tofu munching tree huggers
Oh, save the whales! Beach the turtles! Oh, look! A sale on geodes and crystal pendants! I'll drive my Jeep Grand Cherokee
High School Debate Tactic #123.b:
If you are loosing the argument, call the oponent a 'hypocrite'. This will always discredit their opinions. This will have the added benefit of causing you to not alter your argument in any way.
As a special side note: Using this tactic to justify *YOUR* overconsumption will only fool other people - *YOU* know damn well what is right, your just to lazy, selfish and self-obsessed to admit it to yourself... its so much easier to insult another persons character then defend your own actions.
Who said anything about being 'cosmic', mon?
My simple point is that choosing the 'destiny' of a cave full of million year old crystals of that size (massive natural beuty) requires a massive amount of ego.. I cant understand what people like FFFish, maybe you, and mining companies think that because they 'discovered' this cave - they get to decide its future. That future is immediate and everlasting, and based on the rarity and intrinsic value in such a site, it should be left alone. Alone as in: Document and study, pictures and video, websites and books. Anything else is exploitation.
Even 'tourism' would be over use in my opinion... but all things considered would not be that great a tragedy if done properly (the site is maintained as the 'number one priority').
Exactly why does the choice of someone else to have kids constitute an obligation on my part to those kids' unborn grandchildren?
If I understand you correctly, you feel that you have no obligation to future people (you infer excepting your own children). You are obligated because you are a member of a community. You are obligated because previous generations thought about providing for you.
I've heard a 'proverb', accredited to the First Nations people: "You do not inherit the planet from your father - you borrow it from your sons."
If you'd like to - you can live your life in pursuit of satisfying your every need, without a care for anyone or anything else... no one will stop you. What a horrible, lonely, shallow existance it will be.
Wow - do you trip over your selfishness when you walk?
I hope they do a careful study of the stability of these crystals before letting people too close to them. Obviously the guy who was killed did something stupid, but it could happen again...
sulli
RTFJ.
This weekend, I visited Luray Caverns in Virginia, USA. Apparently, the first air conditioned home in the world was built here in 1901. The owner (a retired ventilation engineer) just drilled a hole into the cave, and pumped the cool, limestone-filtered air into his home via a five-foot-diameter shaft. Story here.
Just so you can get an idea of how hot it is down there: 100 degrees F = 38 degrees C (rounded) 150 degrees F = 66 degrees C (rounded) and 1200 feet = 366 m 66! ouch!
"Me and my girl named bimbo . . . limbo . . . spam" - Captain Beefheart.
Just so you can get an idea of how hot it is down there:
100 degrees F = 38 degrees C (rounded)
150 degrees F = 66 degrees C (rounded)
and 1200 feet = 366 m
66! ouch!
"Me and my girl named bimbo . . . limbo . . . spam" - Captain Beefheart.
Anything only has value in relation to sapient beings, as sapient beings are the only thing in the universe that can value anything.
Now that that's cleared up, you guys can debate what disposition of the crystals is of most value to the only known sapient beings in the universe, humans.
There's no "we" in team, only "me"
Funny you should mention that, because I was just thinking the same thing. Near Natural Bridge, Virginia there is a commercial cave that does just this. It's been a while since I've been there, but I think the name was Endless Caverns or something of the like. Anyway, they've discovered an extremely rare crystal that cannot exist in an oxygenated environment. (It was packed in mud before it was discovered) They managed to construct a glass enclosure that allows tourists to get an up-close view of the crystals while keeping the crystals themselves in near-vacuum suroundings. I'm sure a similar setup wouldn't be to hard to implement for other caves as well.
It sounds nice at first, but it may be more destructive than it sounds. I've been spelunking and studying geology as a hobby for several years now, and it is quite possible that the act of opening the caves to the public alone can destroy some crystals. These crystals probably spend the past few million years enclosed in the cave without the presence of light, human contact, or the cooler outside air. Sadly, this alone may be enough to erode or destroy the crystals. I cannot begin to tell you how depressing it is when you're exploring a cave, enjoying the beauty and solitude, only to find that previous explorations have broken pieces off of walls, spraypainted the interior, or left behind trash in their wake. Not only that, but certain types of crystals break down on a molecular level as selenite reacts with oxygen and light that is not generally found in it's natural growing environment. On the surface, it sounds as if the company is taking steps to preserve the crystals for all to see, but in fact they may be slowly destroying them.
Why? Why would they need to shut down the cave?
It's not like the crystals, unseen and unharmed by the public, are doing anything remotely useful.
Other than generating "feel good vibes," preserving the crystals does no good whatsoever. And damaging the cave system isn't likely to be a big consideration, given that it's a *mining* company. Destroying rocks is what they do best.
I can appreciate, understand and give in to the sloppy sentimentality that's being displayed by so many Slashdotters -- but, on the other hand, I'm also pragmatic enough to admit that if the crystals aren't viewed by tourists, they might as well be chopped up and sold.
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I'd expected some bunch of tofu munching tree huggers would mine the hell out of it.
Never stopped giving me a good wheeze. "Oh, save the whales! Beach the turtles! Oh, look! A sale on geodes and crystal pendants! I'll drive my Jeep Grand Cherokee that gets 10mpg the 100 miles to buy some!" Meanwhile there are thousands of slobs digging up huge portions of natural wilderness so they can sell these rocks for ten bucks a pop.
I'm in the wrong line of work...
At least these are being kept safe (for now). Those pictures looked very cool.
Ceci n'est pas une sig.
When I was 6 I found a very light-weight rock on the playground of my brother's pre-school. It couldn't have been more than an inch in diameter. I kept it in my pocket, and the next day I was bouncing it on my desk at school, because it made a neat sound, almost as though it was hollow. One time I missed catching it after it bounced, and it dropped on the floor and cracked. I was disappointed, knowing that it would now not be in a shape conducive to bouncing, which I thought was just great at age 6. Then I looked, and saw what was inside. I had found a closed geode on a playground in Virgina, USA, and of all the rocks there, it was the one I happened to pick up. To this day I have no clue how it happened, but I know that it did.
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
Did anyone else see the Superman Hall of Justice* when looking at those fotos?
*isnt that what its called...
Air conditioning tends to do this anyway. When the air is cooled moisture is removed, which is why air conditioners drip water.
Also, while selenite is not the most durable of minerals neither is it the most fragile in this sense. The much smaller selenites in my personal collection are unharmed after ~ 10 years despite being kept in open cabinets in New Orleans, LA which is not exactly a low-humidity environment.
In fact, the air conditioning would probably help to preserve the crystals, since the introduction of outside air cannot be undone. By making that outside air cooler and drier any damage to the crystals will be slowed.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
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Does anyone actually have a Java program designed to control air traffic, or for the operation of a nuclear facility?
How about if they build glass tunnels through the caves and airconditioned only those while preserving the natural environment around the crystals. That would keep people from going of the trail and damaging crystals. It would prevent the new atmosphere from damaging the crystals. Also it would save a fortune on the air conditioning bill.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
are doing anything remotely useful
Moderators: Do your worst.. ive got karma to burn.
You know FFFish - its people like you who are responsible for the mess this planet is in...
*JUST EXISTING* and knowing that the Crystals are there is 'enough use' for their preservation. HUMANS of every generation feel they have the right to take anything they please with no consideration to the planet or future generations. Why the fuck should this natural wonder be forced to live up to some asshole's expectation of 'something usefull'? Have you no sense of wonder???? These Crystals took millenia to form - through natural processes of the planet - their mere existance should cause humans to reflect on the planet and the natural wonder around us... instead close minded jackasses like yourself spew shit like "anything remotely usefull".
Give your head a shake pal- 'God' willing - when your long dead and forgotten these things will still be here, despite your arrogance and hubris.
According to the article, the mining company will install airconditioning to make the caves more tolerable to tourists. One thing they must consider when choosing airconditioning is the effect of a steady stream of tourists through an enclosed space. Humans continuously give off a steady stream of water vapour, carbon dioxide and other metabolic wastes, and this may have an adverse effect on the stability of the crystals. The airconditioning must not only lower the temperature of the cave, but must also remove these metabolic wastes, particularly the water vapour.
There are ancient Egyptian sites that have been closed to tourists because the water vapour from the tourists was dissolving the relics, which had been preserved because of the dryness of the site.
I hope the mining company carefully monitors the effect of the airconditioning and tourists on the caves and crystals. They may need to shut down or limit the tourist access if tourism is having an adverse effect on the crystals or cave system.
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
It sounds nice at first, but it may be more destructive than it sounds. I've been spelunking and studying geology as a hobby for several years now, and it is quite possible that the act of opening the caves to the public alone can destroy some crystals.
What, then, would you have us do? Sure, we could preserve the caves indefinately by sealing them up forever. But then they would benifit no one.
As the article says, the choices, as far as the mining copmany sees it, is tourism and mining. Obviously mining the caves for the crystals in much more destructive than letting people take a look.
Even saying that we could avoid this dichotomy, what are the alternatives? Just let "seriosu" spelunker down there? That seems rather elitist to me. I'm not a seriopus spelunker, but I have a healthy respect for and awe of mother nature, and to be told that I can't go spreading around my water vapor, only "serious spelukners" just seems wrong to me. Shouldn't everyone be given equal access to the gaves, in anyone is giving access? Then everyone can enjoy them, and some regular guys might become interested in serious spelunking.
To me, this seems to paralell the ideals behind free software. Everyone is given equal acess to the finite software resiource (coders can only work so hard), and everyone can appreciate it, all in the sense of irony. And if a microsofty can be one over for Linux or BSD, everyone wins.
Stupid like a fox!