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Ximian's Red Carpet Released
Red Carpet Release Info, from Ximian You have waited frothingly in anticipation. You have endured a perpetual release date of "two more weeks." You may have, in a senseless act of anxiety over this amazing work of art, even whispered the "V"-word[1] under your breath. You have tormented the developers on IRC. You have begun the chanting. You have burned towns. You have seized ships and blockaded ports.
Red Carpet is here.
Red Carpet is the next generation Ximian updater and software management application. Based around the concept of "channels," or content groupings, Red Carpet will be able to present you with a virtually endless array of software for your GNU/Linux and Unix systems. In addition to just updating packages already installed on your system, Red Carpet allows you to install new software and remove existing software. Red Carpet operates seamlessly with your existing packaging tools on both RPM and dpkg-based systems, giving you a consistent interface for managing your software on any Linux distribution. And, with DepTricketyTrackTrackTronixTron 9000, our amazing dependency and conflict resolution system, the nightmare of dependencies all but vanish from your life. Rejoice.
We will now move into the question and answer section of our release announcement:
Q. Is this a beta? 0.9? What's going on here? Where am I? Why am I wearing a clown wig?
A. With our best efforts we have tried to find every bug, duplicate every
dependency situation, become one with both RPM and dpkg, and click on
everything rapidly and repeatedly. However, we are most ashamed to admit
that we did not discover every possible bug, could not duplicate all of the
horrors that are your packaging database, failed to achieve spiritual
enlightenment, and simply cannot click as fast as you can. As a result,
we present this application to you in beta form. Frankly, we want you to
do thangs to it. You find bugs, we'll fix em.
Q. How do I get it?
A. Binary packages for Red Hat 6, Red Hat 7, and Debian GNU/Linux systems are
available now through the Red Carpet mirror in the Ximian GNOME Updater.
For Debian users, add this line to your /etc/apt/sources.list:
deb ftp://spidermonkey.ximian.com/pub/red-carpet/binary/debian-22-i386/ ./
You can also get them, as well as the source tarball, from
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/red-carpet. Because we're in the process of
moving our office and we overwork our build people, binary RPMs for the
remainder of our supported Linux distributions will be available a little
later. Sorry.
Q. Okay, I've got it. Now what?
A. Give it a whirl. You can find Red Carpet from the Programs->System menu
on the foot launcher or on the top menu bar. After it downloads all of
the channel bar, you should probably verify that your system's dependencies
are fulfilled by choosing "Verify Installed Packages" from the File menu.
After that, go buck wild. Subscribe to channels, install new software,
check out our totally l33t About page, whatever you want.
Q. "I found a bug" or "Red Carpet sucks! How do I tell you how bad you suck?"
A. In the unlikely event that you find a bug, please submit them to the Ximian
bugzilla at http://bugzilla.ximian.com. We've created a public mailing
list, red-carpet@ximian.com, for you to tell us exactly how much we suck.
Or rule. We're ready for it. We can take it. You can subscribe to it at
http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/red-carpet. By the way, help
control the pet population: have your pets spayed or neutered.
Q. Tell me more about channels.
A. That's not really a question, but I would be happy to. With channels we
are able to provide you with a much wider variety of software and in a
much cleaner way than what was possible with our old updater technology.
Channels can be subscribed to selectively, meaning that you only ever
receive information on updates of software that interest you.
Q. So, uh, does that mean it'll update my distribution, too?
A. Oh yeah. Red Carpet detects what distribution you are running and
presents a channel of it, with all of the updates issed from the vendor.
Red Carpet can install any software on your system, as long as there's a
channel for it. In essence, Red Carpet becomes the central point for
installing, updating, and managing software on your computer.
Q. What about package signing and verification?
A. You'll want to install GnuPG to verify package signatures. We have
included the public keys for Ximian, Red Hat, Caldera, TurboLinux,
Mandrake, and SuSE. Most distros provide them these days. If you don't
have it, Red Carpet will still run fine.
Q. Does this replace the Ximian GNOME Updater?
A. Because this is a beta, we don't want to prevent people from updating
their system in the event that it breaks. As Red Carpet is an infinite
improvement over the old updater that we introduced in March 2000 in
every way, it will replace the Ximian GNOME Updater at some point in the
future. In the meantime, however, they should both work.
Q. You broke my Evolution snapshots. What the hell? A. Sorry bout that. It was necessary to eliminate a pointless dependency on Red Carpet. Your Evolution will be broken until you install new snapshots (which should be built tonight). Look on the bright side, though, you'll be able to install those snapshots with Red Carpet! Sweet!
Q. Who worked on Red Carpet?
A. Red Carpet is the result of months of work by the following people:
DEVELOPERS:
Ian Peters
Joe Shaw
Vladimir Vukicevic
CONTRIBUTORS:
Jacob Berkman
USER INTERFACE DESIGN:
Anna Dirks
ARTWORK:
Tuomas Kousmannen
Jakub Steiner
In addition, many thanks go out to Larry Ewing and Radek Doulik for their work on GtkHTML, on which Red Carpet heavily relies. They've had to deal with our constant pestering in addition to those of the pesky Evolution developers. All too often our conversations went like this:
"Dude, there is a bug in GtkHTML."
"That isn't a GtkHTML bug."
"Yeah dude, it is.
"Dude, no it isn't."
"Dude, it is."
"No, dude, it isn't."
Pause.
"Hmm. You're right, it isn't. Sorry, dude."
Thanks, guys. We're dorks.
Lastly, special thanks go out to Matt Wilson, who, aside from his help, plain and simply totally rules.
Q. How many inside jokes are in this release announcement?
A. I quit counting around eight. Joe Shaw, however, will give one hundred
AMERICAN dollars to the first person to identify all of them and their
origins.
[1] Vapo(u)rware.
Er, I have automatic updates. I have dependency tracking. I have channels too - in fact, I update my Helix Gnome regularly using them. It's called apt/dpkg, and it's a standard part of Debian.
Now, a GUI tool for setting up and administering APT could be very cool - I'm not making a CLI vs GUI argument here - but why might I want another system to do basically the same job bolted onto the side? If there are things that Red Carpet does that apt/dpkg doesn't, wouldn't it be best to fix apt/dpkg?
The Helix people know Debian, so I'm sure they've anticipated this question, but I'm surprised not to see it answered here.
--
Xenu loves you!
Red Carpet seems quite interesting... as soon as the Ximian ftp lets me in or if I find a mirror that already has it, I'll try it
I have one simple question though :
This "updater" will update all the Ximian Gnome part of the system (to replace the Helix updater) but also the core of the distribution (Debian users won't be much affected, but RedHat users like me will)... but can it manage other groups of packages???
I'm asking this because I maintain many useful custom RedHat 7 RPMs people really seem to like available from http://redhat.aldil.org/ and it would be great if I could (and others that trust me too of course) put my public GPG key into my Red Carpet and manage all my custom RPMs from it. I'm ready to make xml files describing my packages on my server (if that's how it works) etc. to get things working.
Does anyone know if this would/will be possible? I would be soooo pleased if it was :-)
-- Life wasn't meant to be easy...
While I'm not saying it will go that far, the logical end point of this might be that you go to a web site, type in the bits and pieces of stuff you want, and have your raw disk image updated regularly. User-visible client-side package management would become irrelvant, you'd be completely dependent on the subscription, and you could forget about CD-ROMs or other disconnected installations.
Yes, some form of convenient download and dependency checking is needed. And both RedHat and Ximian probably have the best intentions. But I'm not convinced that this is the right overall route to go in the long run.
My problem is with the issue of bolt-on updaters. I personally have used these things before, and I have found that they are more trouble than they are worth.
Define bolt-on. When it comes to Debian, for instance, you're merely replacing the package management utilities that come with the system (dpkg and apt) with another one that uses the same data files. There's no difference in the amount of underlying control over the operating system.
I would not trust my operating system to a third-party updater; after all, given that Unix is a server OS, you should compile from scratch anyway (to ensure maximum speed and so on) - the value of this is limited.
Ah, right - this would explain your confusion. You're missing the point entirely. Many people don't want to have to download and compile every piece of software they want to use. They want to be able to say "I want that" and for it to appear on their machine. This isn't limited to users. I admin over 20 machines consisting of 4 different architectures. If I had to compile everything by hand it would take me forever. However, the wonders of the Debian package management system mean that I can keep them running, up to date and secure while at the same time doing a full-time degree. Package management is a wonderful example of a labour-saving device. Don't knock it just because you're a die-hard "compile everything from source" freak.
If you want this, you should get an OS where this facility is integrated; for example, Windows 2000 now has built-in management and update facilities, and this might be a more appropriate route to take.
Uhm. Linux (in the shape of Debian, Red Hat, Mandrake, Caldera, SuSe, the vast majority of other distributions) is an OS that has had a package management system integrated for several years. The copy of AIX I have here from 1992 had a package management facility. Doing everything the long, hard, painful way for minimal gain is not the UNIX way.
Why would we need YAPM (Yet Annother Package Manager)??
At the moment there are RPM's, DEB's (apt) and they are cool enough.. then there's the good old tarballs, and BeOS PKGs', then there's QNX' package manager, and loads of time..
It's not YAPM in that sense. It interfaces with your distribution's existing package management system, presenting a uniform interface to it regardless of whether you're using Debian, Red Hat or SuSe while at the same time giving you various extra features that you may (or may not) need. It's not a replacement for RPMs or Debs, it's a replacement for things like dselect.
Even if you are a CLI true believer, tell your friends, co-workers and people on the street that: "Yes, Linux has many graphical updaters. And here is another one". One of the biggest misconceptions about Linux is that it is hard to maintain, "So many packages, so many patches/upgrades. How can I possibly manage this mess?".
Things like Red Carpet (and the older HelixUpdate) really help out new users who just want to be told what to update (and why). HelixUpdate (don't have RC yet :-), shows a list of available updates organised by importance (security fixes, bug fixes, new packages etc) and with brief explanations on what they are for. I don't think there are similar programs for Windows (or Mac?) that let you check for updates, not only for your OS, but other applications as well.
With RC and most under Linux updaters, they provide updates for many common packages so you can update your browsers, irc client and print software all at one go (actual example). If this isn't ease of use, I don't know what is.
====
Codeala - Just another mindless drone
One thing that seems to be missing from Red Carpet (as well as any other tool i've used) is a summary of changes between the version installed and the updated version. That would really kick ass.
yes, but if you provide the same interface to everyone, then eventually they start to care less about whats actually happening underneath as long as it works well. .deb overnight, but a unified interface eliminates a large part of the problem, so although as you say it's only a workaround, it's still a step in the right direction.
Eventually then, this means you could standardise on one package management system underneath without forcing the users to learn a new interface. I still don't think you're going to get debian to switch to rpm or rh etc to adopt
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
The distro provides you with package management tools, there's only one database (because all these updaters use the package managers to list the installed software and install new things. Perl can be installed at install time, and GNOME is installed with Helix's very nice updater (why isn't it graphical for debian, though?).
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