Is The Classic RPG Making A Comeback?

sundance asks: "Despite Wizards of the Coast's Microsoft-like domination of tabletop RPGs there may be a revival under way for some of those old RPG worlds we used to love. Runequest's Glorantha has been back for a while now with a new game system and new products including a computer game: King of Dragon Pass. M.A.R. Barker fans also got a boost recently with the annoucement that Tekumel is to return to print! What does Slashdot think? Is it a good sign that these old friends are returning to print or are they doomed by Wizards domination of the industry? Can an independent game survive in today's market?"

Comments

Capitalism 101

[Legion]

The biggest problem with this set-up has already been mentioned above... once you buy a "good" gaming system's basic rules, you don't "need" to buy anything else ever again. Therefore, the best games' companies go out of business. The only way to stay in business is to release new & different games (which eventually reaches saturation & begins losing you money on production costs), release modules/supplements (as above, useful, but not necessary & therefore not a reliable stream of income), or change the game every so often with a completely new edition. C'mon, you guys are college geeks; they do the same thing with textbooks... every so often a "new" edition forces you to stop trading the old book around & buy a new one for class. How do you think TSR stayed around as long as they did? The problem is how to mak a "good" game reliably produce money for the publisher, and I'm afraid I don't have an answer to that...

Prove Me Wrong, PLEASE!!

[jheinen]

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think we will ever return to anything like the heyday of RPGs. The market simply isn't large enough to sustain many competing game systems, especially with the release of 3rd Ed. D&D. Wizards has pretty much trounced all other competitors. It's sad.

Of course, in a way pen and paper RPGs are kind of like Linux. It doesn't really matter if other game systems are not supported, since I can play anything I want. I don't *need* Wizards of the Coast or some other company to publish modules and books. I have everything I need to run several different systems, and the knowledge to make my own. RPGs are first and foremost games that take place within your head. It's entirely up to your imagination.

-Vercingetorix

Re:This reminds me of plastic models

[Infonaut]

Indeed.. I used to try and think up reasons why the players in my very Eurocentric medieval campaign might somehow wind up encountering Isis out in the middle of some blasted desert.

One of the great things about that era was that internal consistency wasn't such a big deal. Remember Arduin? Totally imbalanced game, but fun as hell, until the Thunder Bunnies showed up, then it was all over.. ;-)

These days it's the licensing of the game world

[Infonaut]

If you think about it, there are many ways to enjoy a game world. Picture AD&D in this light:

1) Pencil and paper (you'd be better served with RQ imho, but that's another matter)

2) On your computer, using one of the many AD&D branded video games

3) On your home theater, by watching the... well, let's face it, atrocious D&D movie.

Greg Stafford's Glorantha has persevered over the years, even when Avalon Hill drove a stake through it's heart in the late 80s/early 90s. Now finally more products are being released for Glorantha, but a core of dedicated fans have kept it going, just like Star Trek fans kept the franchise going in the dark years between the demise of the first show and the movies.

Really imaginative, well-created worlds have lives of their own. Witness the return of LotR to public consciousness. Finally, *three* live-action movies are being made about a world that was created a half-century ago. In the interim, Iron Crown Enterprises did some great work with their Middle Earth role-playing suppliments. I'm thinking a video game isn't too far-fetched an idea.

The Internet has certainly helped to keep these worlds alive. I would never have imagined that so many people are still into Glorantha (some to a distressing degree), but there are many sources of info about it online.

This reminds me of plastic models

[Infonaut]

I used to build plastic models when I was a kid. Lots and lots and lots of them. I would spend countless hours reading the latest techniques in FineScale Modeller, wondering if I'd ever get good enough at it to win a diorama contest.

Then in 7th grade, I heard some strange discussions in the school library. "Asmodeus could kick any Gold Dragon's ass!" I was intreagued, and before long I was playing Basic D&D, then AD&D (I vividly remember when the first hardbound Dieties and Demigods appeared.. droool). Then I moved on to Aftermath!, RuneQuest, and countless others. Over the years I burned countless thousands of hours running pencil and paper RPGs. Finally my gaming tapered off as college came to a close.

Now, ten years after college, I'm gaming again, but only once every three months, with the same guys I gamed with in high school and college. It's fun, and we thoroughly enjoy our games of RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu, but to be honest, it's really primarily an excuse for us to get together and have fun.

When I get older still, and I've got lots of free time on my hands, I may get back into plastic models. But like most things that are really fun, building models takes time, which is something I don't have much of these days.

Like plastic modelling, pencil and paper games are dying out slowly, as a result of competition from the overwhelmingly visual, instant-gratification flavor of computer and console games that can be played alone, in short bursts or for long periods of time.

I'm looking forward to Neverwinter Nights. Maybe it will truly spark a new revolution.

Re:The young up-and-comer

[jon_adair]

...is the market over saturated with roleplaying games, or under?

I think it is oversaturated. Steve Jackson seems to have the view that most people will try D&D (or maybe Star Wars) first and when/if they get sick of that, they'll try GURPS. White Wolf seems to be in a similar position. I honestly don't see any reason why TSR/WotC won't continue to own the beginner's market, especially with the recent D&D movie.

If I were to go into the game publishing business today, my first focus would be d20/D&D compatable supplements (adventures and campaign settings). That's getting to be a crowded market though, but I think there is always room for good content.

I would start with some free electronic downloads (PDF) from a web site (and newsgroups). I would also send playtest copies (photocopies or cheap printing) to local gaming groups and see if any local shops would carry them.

If you're serious about a new RPG system and have the money to back it, I would try very hard to get it into the big chain bookstores (Borders, B&N, Waldenbooks). Their current selections are very sparse and you could really stand out.

Re:Wizards crushing Peasents

[grammar nazi]

I used to love Star Frontiers. The rules were rather simple, but I expanded them and used a Cyberpunk campaign that took place exclusively on Earth.

In my campaign some of the Asian countries (based entirely upon their geographic location, not race) were being controlled by an alien and the governments were starting to go to war with the rest of the world. The alien was providing Japan with the technology to actually go to war with the rest of the world. The campaign started in the sewers of Tokyo, all the party members were caucasion, hence they had to remains unseen or covered up in public from the Japanese.

At first, the party was just trying to excape from the island of Japan, but eventually, they uncovered secrets took them back into Tokyo as they tried to uncover who/what was controlling the island of Japan. By then, most of the countries were at war with Japan.

The culmination of the campaign was going to be when the player characters went to Siberia to kill the alien. They did figure out that it was an alien and it was living in siberia, but before the PCs could arrange for transportation to Siberia, many of the players (myself included) went away to college. The campaign was left in a 'hanging' state.

How many other wonderfully planned campaigns have been broken up this way?

Roleplaying is superior to comp. gaming... for now

[Mossfoot]

As a freelance writer, I find RPGs to have an incredible amount of potential depth and character, something even the best computer RPG cannot possibly match. Imagination is a much more powerful tool than a really good graphic artist (or, to use an old movie analogy, the first rule of a good horror movie is to NEVER show the monster. The audience is far more frightened by what their imagination can conjour up than what the art college boys can cook up with latex).

If you have a talented writer as a GM, the possibilities are endless, and rewarding. I'm sorry, but computer games simply cannot compete.

Yet.

Neverwinter Nights is introuducing some very interesting things that will begin to level the playing field a bit. Not only can you create cities, adventures, characters, ect... but the gamemaster interacts while the game is going on, and can take on the roles of any NPCs he or she wants to. This level of interaction has great possibilities in constructing a fluid, dynamic storyline that the players can enjoy. I'm interested to see where this goes.

But I can't help but feel that traditional roleplaying will have a single advantage, and that is you are forced to rely on your imagination, and nothing else.