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Linuxgruven Layoffs
Several readers submitted this story about layoffs at Linuxgruven. Some of them made allegations that Linuxgruven had bounced their last set of paychecks - we have no confirmation of this. We have previously run a story and a followup about a conflict between Linuxgruven and Sair - looks like that won't be a problem anymore.
Exactly. IBM gave an S/390 to Telia for free without any consultancy at all. Guess you can't make money with Linux. Since Intel and Cisco are laying off 5000 employees each you can't make money in CPUs and routers either.
This is a lie!
I promise
Last one in jail is a fascist.
Face it, you just can't make money giving stuff away.
{Ed. You bunch of pinko commies just don't get the AMERICAN way of life.}
Ill be more than happy to confirm that some paychecks did bounce. Aaron
"Curiouser and Curiouser...." -Alice
I agree. What a joke. Email them as I did and complain that their pay-to-link scam just harms their reputation as a news outlet. stlouis@bizjournals.com
Time wounds all heels
I went to the last one and it was run by a guy from Linuxgruven. I don't remember his name, but he seemed like one of the higher-ups... It would be nice if their web page had this info on it, but it's so woefully out of date it isn't surprising. I think I'll have to go again to see what kind of spin he puts on this.
the no
This is funny? Really. My company supplies equipment and leases space to Linuxgruven for their classes. Aaron up there has a wife and a child to support. Another person I know from Linuxgruven just moved here from Chicago, staying in a hotel with his family paid for by Linuxgruven. He was looking for a house. What's he gonna do now, move his family into a car? What's so funny about that?
On monday morning 15 people are going to show up at the door to my company expecting to be trained. Will there be anyone from Linuxgruven there to explain what's going on to them? Or are we going to have a riot on our hands? Then there are the afternoon and evening classes....
45 people who paid $2500 (or whatever) for training they're not going to get, expecting to work for a company that just let 100 employees go.... This is funny to you?
On top of all that, as I've stated before Linuxgruven has always paid their bills.... until now. They just ordered 100 machines from us for new offices they were planning to open. Thankfully they haven't been picked up yet, however we have to restock those parts to our vendors. If we're lucky we'll get a low 10% restocking fee. That's a large chunk of un-recoverable change for us to swallow.
This is not funny.
--J(K) DOS is like Unix in exactly the same way that a pinto is like an aircraft carrier.
I'm always amused how the people posting these daily Linux failures have to take some swipe at Microsoft. C'mon kids, the bitterness is a little obvious. I can't wait to see the ire directed at Microsoft by the editors/submitters here when VA Linux becomes a penny stock and they dump Slashdot.
Cheers,
I hope you get your wish, but after handling several calls from out of state instructors who were left mostly in the blue about state of affairs I can tell you there are no classes going on. If you are still contacted than I would highly suggest that you are better to spend the $2500.00 (And if you were quoted more than you should quote them this price) on books, coffee and a good desk to study, as these will help you more.
Aaron
"Curiouser and Curiouser...." -Alice
Tapped out of cash the owners maybe...but remember property can sold by the courts.
Aaron
"Curiouser and Curiouser...." -Alice
That post is a criminal offense. It would qualify as a hit list, which has recently been found by the Supreme Court to be considered a threat. I hope Slashdot traces your IP address and you are prosecuted.
Not to mention the fact that that car is NOT a company car, but belongs to an employee who happened to like the company he worked for.
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
They also had an ad in the latest St Louis Business Journal. I don't have it in front of me, so I'm not sure if they were looking for help, but I think they were.
the no
Damn, and I'm the one who took a hit on my karma for telling people not to go fuck with someone's car. Why does that make me the troll?
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
I am a Linuxgruven employee. I have a job. There were not 100 layoffs. If there had been I would not have a job. No one in my office has been laid off. So, for those that like rumors and news stories with absolutely no facts, no reporting, and no teeth, this is apparently your kind of story. I have been unable to find any supporting facts on several stories released by Slashdot. Posting stories based solely on general word of anybody seems to be a common practice of Slashdot. I highly recommend before putting any trust into these stories, you research your own facts. I'll stick with facts, and a company that has a great business plan. And we'll continue to be here, and be entertained by your comedy.
Go AC You seem to be one of the more intelligent people posting to this. Unfortunately logic doesn't work for many. Too bad, eh?
This only proves that one company has been mismanaged.
Follow the money: An operating system might cost $20 or $100 or $1000, but that is nothing compared to the cost for labor to set up a system, maintain it, and do something useful with it. Simple arithmetic conclusively proves that software is a relatively small cost for most businesses - they spend alot more for services, regardless of where the software came from. If businesses do 80% of the services in house, the market for consultants is still larger than the market for boxed software. Consulting is also a business that can be started on a shoe-string and scaled up, but trying to compete in the shrinkwrapped software market takes a big investment. Most businesses are attracted to the open source nature of Linux, its stability and security, not so much the price. The fact that Linux is free is something that appeals more to hobbyists, small business owners, academics, and third-worlders.
GNU/Linux isn't trying to repeal the laws of business; it is a different type of business strategy, where there is cooperation in a limited area (software design/distribution). Outside of that area, the market continues pretty much as usual. Most new businesses go under in the first few years, so the fact that some of the Linux companies are dropping is not a reason to assume that GNU/Linux is not viable.
I also notice some pretty bad inconsistencies. That same page from icopyright has an option to "buy" the right to email the article (something like 20 cents per message), yet the website with the story has its own link to a "email the story", where I doubt (I haven't tried all the way to create an account) that they're going to charge you.
The web is becoming a messy and messed up place.
Maan
Agreed in full.
Bravo to someone who came out and said it.
Aaron.
"Curiouser and Curiouser...." -Alice
That's "MCSE". You should know it by now. Or have you already forgotten your A-plus training?
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Seems to me that when the ship floundered it wasn't the cats that jumped of first. if you are an infant in business you believe new companies dont get i trouble whith faster than anticipated grouth. its not the dealing with success that make a true businessman,its the dealing with adversity. my money says these guys who started with nothing and had 2.8 million in sales their first year will bounce back with a plan that will give them 5-10 million their second year. dont bet on a loser who jumps ship when encountering thier first storm.
As for the filing of a suit, please join us.
I am going to get the info also.
The cost to file is going to be at least $23.00
Aaron
"Curiouser and Curiouser...." -Alice
Bounced paychecks are not good. Sounds like this company needs better management. There is no reason that paychecks should bounce, the should be able to cover for such a problem. Bummer.
-Moondog
Slashdot has not added my story about Linuxgruven official layoff status for an Atlanta office perspective. I thought it had a lot more validity than some of the crap I see listed.
Alright, I'm blowing my mod points on this article, but I need to respond to this troll-ish post.
The St. Louis Business Journal is and has been a well-respected print publication in St. Louis for years. Just because their web site is moronic (they don't really publish it themselves, Microsoft bCentral should really take the blame) doesn't mean you must discredit the entire publication.
I have absolutely nothing to do with the SLBJ, aside from being a resident of St. Louis.
zsazsa (and to think I considered applying at Linuxgruven. I obvously would have refused to take their training course, though..)
What I want to figure out is a good synonym for "power cycler" which starts with the letters S and E. After all, Microsoft Certified Power Cycler probably comes closest to what one actually does. (I usually call them that anyways.)
--
You're a suburbanite.
For every class I'd ever been to, only 1 in 6 were actually looking for a job. The rest were already employed, in the computer field in some manner or other. I'd say that maybe for half the info was directly job relevant, and the other half? You'd be surprised the number of places that send employees to training costing $$$$ for no reason other than it seems like the right thing to do.
yeah, i figured as much about the recruiters. so did they really lay that many (100) people off??? what city are you based in? they seriously pissed me off.
I would go drown my sorrows in a few gallons of my favorite brew, not sure I can afford it now that it looks like my future job may be in jeopardy.
that the current linux-ese buisness model of selling support for free software is not going to work. Make fun of MS all you want, but they have 27billion in cash reserves and a very orthodox buisness strategy. Shrug.
That's still one hell of a fragmented market.
/etc hierarchy is wildly divergent.
None of those ten have the same, or even that similar, an init.d structure. The
It's a real mess.
I run NetBSD on four different processors on my (experimental, mind you) network at home. Same binaries, and I can almost clone the config files across the different archs.
"That's because, you're an idiot." -Elaine Benis
Thank you. you have just proved how linuxgruven could get to the point of not making payrole. Unless it is grown fast it will come to a head.
As for the training materials. I may as well believe you. Hell I believed everyone else. I am not sure how I got the idea that the training material were the CEO's idea. I'm sorry I did not give the credit where it is due. How ever the out come is the same for me. I'm done. I'm hoping for maybe one call from linuxgruven. But no matter I'm out. Craig I have a lot of respect for you. Good Luck.
Last one in jail is a fascist.
Well, this will never affect real linux users, who use the community developed Debian. I don't think there is any way they can fire debian developers. That is the good thing about Linux.
samrolken
From the article:
Clayton-based Linuxgruven.com laid off 100 employees today, sources tell the St. Louis Business Journal. The company, a Linux training and service company, reportedly had 106 employees as of January.
Is this a typo, or are they really left with 6 employees?
I'm all for small working groups, but this might be a bit of an overkill.
----------
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
According to the company's own website, times couldn't be better:
And the company is making a profit. "We are in the black -- an amazing concept, isn't it, among these startup tech companies?" (Linuxgruven website)
Must have been a rough February...
*scoove*
To be honest, after rereading my post I see my point wasn't very clear.My fault for posting at 4:00 in the morning or whenever. Anyway, the point i meant to make was that there are just.. ludicrious rumors flying around like this, and i really just want some solid answers.
Oh wait....that's right, they sell support for free software. But I thought only Windows users needed support.
I found out this morning, while waiting to enter class at the Linuxgruven Chicago Training Facility. Below is a copy of the 'official memorandum' (given to me by an instructor)
From: Richard Beach
To: employees@linuxgruven.com
Date: 03/11/2001 - 7:43:34 pm
Subject: Status
Dear Linuxgruven Employee,
It is with sincere regret that I write to inform you that due to certain financial exigencies, we must go through a restructuring period. This will entail possible layoffs. We are currently working to complete a round of financing, and hope the financial situation is temporary. Each employee will be notified individually of their employment status, as well as information regarding payroll. We are suspending operations at all of our locations immediately, until all effected employees can be notified.
Your financial position may be that you cannot wait for Linuxgruven's financial status to improve, to that end we have retained an outplacement firm to assist in a job search with another firm. That information will be provided at the time we contact you.
- James
I have the names and contact information of people that were in the calss with me. Most people paid 1/2 tuition ($1500) upfront, coincidentally we received 2 weeks instruction.
The instructor was poor, I doubt he would have been able to get certified for teaching, let alone as an LCA. I had six months experience working on SunOS 6 and was more knowledgable on command syntax than he was. He admitted this was his first teaching experience.
When I would presented the instructors with questions pertaining to the job assignments of people that had previously completed the course and passed the test, the reply was "None". I asked if it was safe to infer that all the Linuxgruven LCA'a working at the Chicago location were SAIR certified and I was told "Yes".
During the interview I inquired about the nature of my work assignment. What type of work assignments would I possibly be assigned to. What work location would I be assigned. The interviewer was unable to answer these questions. He responded that I probably would be presented with a variety of options, "Linuxgruven is growing, signing new contracts, opening more Linux Service/Training centers and expanding operations." He was not aware of actual work conditions and assignments for LCA's.
Anyone interested in a Class Action contact krawdaddy@netzero.net
Why don't we make a distinction, on Slashdot. We will refer to EVERY commercial linux company / distro as "Linux-dot-com" and every non-commercial distro or organization will simply be "Linux" or "Linux oriented."
This makes a lot more sense. With the rate at which all of these "revolutionary" Linux capitalists are going under, no one is going to want to invest in linux, and in turn, linux will not do well on the market place.
Linux [corporations] resembles dot-coms in every way, shape, and form. They have no plan, they pick up a copy of linux from kernel.org, get a post on slashdot about an IPO (which needs to stop, btw) and two weeks later, are on Yahoo about a Chapter 11. Ohh, this really looks great for Linux / Unix as a whole.
Let's vote JonKatz off Slashdot island.
Let's vote JonKatz off Slashdot island.
Does anyone think that had 106 employees spread out over 7 cities still plans to be in business after firing over 90 per cent of their work force?
Who ever this Micheal is, stated he cannot confirm bounced checks from LG should ask for confirmation. If he sends me his email address, I can send him a scanned copy of the check and a letter from my bank. Growth was to fast in my opinion. To many people were opting to take the Sair test and many were passing We in Atlanta had 4-5 people ready to start work. We had no outside contacts or space in the office to accomindate to many more people. I new something had to change. I thought they would have to stop the "Train for Hire" program but they found another solution. SURPRISE!! SURPRISE!! I was in the Atlanta office. I paid for the class and took the class in October so I am srewed two ways. I passed the Linuxgruven tests which were a hell of a lot harder that the Sair tests. Only 16 people in the nation ever passwd the LG tests. I had started working last month. My March 2th paycheck bounced and the paycheck due today probally will not arrive but will also bounce if is does. There is "insufficient fund" in LG's bank account which I check every day. The same happened with 5 of the other 6 Atlanta employee. The one whose check did clear deposited if before noon that day. The LG management in St. Louis called the building lease manager in Atlanta and had the locks removed while we were still in the office with students. They did not have the moral fotitude to inform the employees beforehand. With the website statement that " no one has officially been laidoff" and the fact that Georgia Dept. of Labor says LG paid no unemployment tax no one can may be able to get unemployment. The phone number (888-644-6545) the student were give to contact LG is not being answered. I have called every day, over a dozen times, but no answer. I wonder if the email address given to the students is accepting meassage or more importantly has anyone got a reply. It was James Hibbets email
Minsweeper Certified Solitaire Expert?
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
Save that one for later, though, that's funny!
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
I dunno. I got 14,000 from them before they tanked. they owe me four weeks work and 2500 for my classes, but all in all I did allright. :p If it was a scam only Jim or Mike knew for certain. And either one wasn't very smart about executing it then.
hehe, and to help train for that MCSE, get the MCSE Trainer
Oddly enough though, on Linuxgruven it talks about how the market has been so bad for technology companies, but not them!
Who this "Employee" is, they are not in anyway in possession of what happened. My guess would have to be its either Mike Lebb or James Hibbits. Not sure which. Either way it smells of sh*t.
Aaron
"Curiouser and Curiouser...." -Alice
I passed my LCA also. I have 7 years of Linux experience, and passed all 4 tests in 15 days. I went into an interview, and got the exact same line. They told me that they would contact me within 3 days. It's been about 5 weeks. I just figured they didn't want me because I didn't pay them to train me... Even though they say they hire ANYONE with the right training. What a bunch of losers!!!
Count 'em up. I think I got about 196 listed at LWN's distro page a month or two back. But, as you point out, there's a handful of major ones (Debian, Red Hat, Caldera, SuSE, Mandrake, Turbo), a few HW-specific ones (Yellow Dog, ARM), and a whole slew of special-purpose ones, as well as smaller dists.
I tend to think of these as tailored applications of Linux rather than fragmentation of the core distro.
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
Simply post your real name...some of us are not afraid to talk our minds.
Aaron
"Curiouser and Curiouser...." -Alice
Okay. I'm getting the impression that there is VC out there looking to snatch up some LCA's. It would seem that more then one party is interested in starting a real company. I am going to assume that I'm getting this attention because my post got a rating of 5. The question that has come up 3 times is how many LCA can I muster up. Well I don't know that to be honest. But If you would sign up on the guest book on my personal webpage at www.mercybeat.com then they can see for them selves how many LCA's can be had on monday morning. Please LCA's only.
This is not a joke. But I make no promises. I'm still looking for a job and I'm not wanting to be a opertunist. I have not heard from anyone like IBM. So far these are just e-mails with persons that say VC is easy for a consulting company.
They way I see it their are customers for linux solutions and at least a hundred Linux Admin's that can start on monday for someone that can come up with the VC. Before we are forced to work Microsoft to eat.
Too bad there is no way to put this on ebay.
Last one in jail is a fascist.
HEH HEH!
Yea I am...
One. I'm not joining the former CEO's new company.
Two. Have you done the numbers? if you have 100 people paying 3150 dollars in one month but you only hire 1 out of every 20 then you should not have to depend on a VC check the day of payrole.
Three. The CEO started the new training docs and was the one that said they would be opensource.
(which could have something to do with Sair getting pissed but I don't know).
Four. The CEO was busting his ass trying to find placement for LCA's.
Five. The CEO was trying to change the way Linuxgruven did bussiness. When he couldn't he quit.
I can tell where your coming from my friend but don't call me the tune. I will not walk away.
Last one in jail is a fascist.
We're really fucking pissed off. How do you think it would be to suddendly see a company you believe in go shooting down the toilet? TO be completley in the dark. Linuxgruven was what we did. I want to know what happened to the missing 250,000 dollars.. the three million so-and-so said he took home.. .I want to know who rang up a 7000$ phone bill.. why we never got any support accounts.. why the ball was dropped REPEATEDLEY. WHERE was the communication? What's the point of stranding people...? Having a sales force that doesn't know what the product really is.. ? Using Microsoft OSes for the employees too green to switch to linux.. ? TO my knowledge, even the CEO, the president of the St. Louis LInux SIG was using Windows primarily.
I feel extremley violated.
I called the 888 number for their Customer Service Center, 13:15EST, and there was no answer.
I'm guessing if you're using 'em, your SOL.
It's a shame that, if a company is going to fail, they don't do it gracefully.... you'd think that was the LEAST they could do, esp. if they were mis-managed... but, I guess if they were mis-managed, the wouldn't terminate gracefully...
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
Noth'in like kicking someone in the groin while they're on the ground, is it? >:|
I suppose what is really funny is the iCopyright.com is using a freely available hierarchy like navigation menu "hierMenus" with the copyright removed. How is that for irony. Check out the source, there is not mention of where they originally got the script.
(MLP)
Rip Work!
They have 8 locations according to their Office Locations page, that's 3/4 of an employee per location.
you pitiful moron. free and commercial software both are good and have good uses!
As a (former) employee, I can say that as far as I know, we never charged $6300. Generally speaking, the price was $2500, though for a couple of months the price was upped to $3150.
I'm not really suprised though, because some of our "recruiters" were about as honest as used-car salesmen.
Blame St. Louis county...
$17.00 to fill
and $6.00 to deliever.
Aaron
"Curiouser and Curiouser...." -Alice
I'm sorry to hear of the layoffs at Linuxgruven. However, our non-dotcom St. Louis based company is growing our Unix environment and we need some help.
My group has just gotten approval to hire a couple of Unix/AIX sysadmins, and I am looking for people with solid Unix skills. (If you're good, we can train you in whatever technology you need to know).
We're part of a large company, and I am introducing lots of Opensource technologies into our architecture. My personal interests lie in Unix security (SSH/Kerberos/LDAP), but we also have Oracle, WebSphere, Java, MQ and clustered systems. If I had the time, I'd also like to roll out PHP and Jabber internally.
Please send me email to steve at borrelli.org and I will see if we can set up an interview.
OK, I work(ed) for Linuxgruven, but am posting anonymously for obvious reasons.
There are 2 issues involved, only one of which has been mentioned here. First, there is the issue of the company running out of money. That seems to be true, but they had just secured Venture Capital on monday.
The second issue is the fact that *all* the executives resigned on thursday. Apparently, they took the VC money with them. That's why the employees aren't getting paid. That is also why the owners sent everyone home on friday. They have no management team and possbily no money. That makes it hard to run a company.
The article at the St. Louis Business Journal is quite suspicious. Many of the obvious facts are wrong. It is common knowledge that the company is in 8 cities, not 7. And it is obvious that if you lay off everyone but 6 people, but have 7 cities, that lay-offs had to have taken place in other cities. I suspect that the "sources" are the former Linuxgruven management trying to spread a little FUD.
I doubt anyone who was here when during that last mess with Linuxgruven on Slashdot is surprised by this. Honestly, posting fake testimonials about their company is not the sign of a thriving business.
I doubt that lawsuit is going to get anywhere, it sounds like they're tapped out of cash.
Later,
ErikZ
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
Minesweeper Consultant & Solitaire Expert.
I just press the reset button...
I have over 15 years of Linux experience!
OK, this is getting out of hand. Linus has barely had 9 years of Linux experience.
I would hope that anyone with over 5 years of actual IT experience, much less actual Linux experience would be able to find a job for better than $45K.
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
Actually, I think we were more closley related to the Church of the Subgenius. Most of the boxes were running Slackware..
The "St. Louis Business Journal" Article that Slashdot points to has a link at the botton labelled "Click for permission to reprint", and the page that it takes you to claims to be able to charge $5 for the right to link, as if copyright could restrict that. As I see it, this makes the "St. Louis Business Journal" a scam intended to take advantage of people who don't understand copyright and fair use, and, therefore, not a trustable source of news.
It's only social pressure, but I would like to recommend that slashdot label unconfirmed "St. Louis Business Journal" stories as rumour, since their misleading statements about copyright show that publication by the "St. Louis Business Journal" does not make it particularly likely that a statement is true. Also, keeping the "St. Louis Business Journal" in quotation marks helps make it clear that that site is not acknowledged as the journal of record for business in St. Louis.
Please don't feed the trolls.
I was Senior Systems Developer at Linuxgruven. I was working on internal projects when I got the axe. And here is what I know.
Yes it's a scam. The fact is that they count on people not passing the LCA. They do this by promising people that have no chance of becoming a Linux admin. Most of the time these are people that can't even use windows computers.
The owners ( James and Mike ) write checks out of the company's bank account. The reason everyone is fired is because the owners took a vacation and spent their paycheck.
Right before this happened everyone at linuxgruven was forced to sign a non-discloser agreement so that people would be afraid to speak out about what was about to happen. ( LG can fook off because I did not sign S#1t.
Everyone that was above me knew how the bussiness worked and chose to ignore it because they were getting great titles and pay.
I found out a month ago and started looking into the training materials. The instructors were top notch but the materials were so bad that I would not suggest them to be used as heating fuel. I see no possible way for people to study anything from the training materials.
In the beginning it looked like a real company. I was seperated from the rest of the company and told that support contracts for services were piling up. It was not till I went to the call center and saw everyone fooking around that I supected that it was the training classes that were the only form of income. Other then me. I was billed out for 170+ hour and got screwed out of my bonus for those jobs. Which by the way my bonuses were supposed to be in this coming fridays check.
I strongly suggest that people stay away from linuxgruven. I have been told personally by the owners that they will continue the training classes and look to other citys to make up for St.Louis.
Don't feel sorry for me. feel sorry for all the guys that thought they were getting a break. A chance to work with linux and get a real good pay concidering how much they knew. Instead these guys got screwed out of pay and the bills are coming fast for them.
The fact is that there was only one real admin job that linuxgruven had, and only one person did that job. The rest were sitting around waiting for people that wanted interviews.
This is a company to stay away from... If anyone wants to contact me they can do so though my home page www.mercybeat.com ( i'm mercybeat ).
There was some good work going on at Linuxgruven... there was a team that was working on creating real training materials that were to be released opensource.
My last advice to linuxgruven employees. Go to the courts and file a personal small claim against the company. If your in st.louis contact me and i'll tell you all about it. Or you can meet me in clayton monday morning and file with me.
I would still like to work for a linux professional services company if anyone has a job for a java programmer with 5 years or real linux experiance.
Damon C. Richardson
mercybeat@earthlink.net
P.S. Once again I have signed nothing at linuxgruven and I can say what ever i want to who ever I want.
Last one in jail is a fascist.
Contact thes folks for your money back
Linuxgruven
7711 Bon Homme Suite 450
Clayton, MO 63105
314-727-0918
Principals:
Mike Lebb 314-922-7725
James Hibbits 314 -922-7717
Karlton Holmstrom 314-922-7787
Jack Estes
Ken Silver - Philly Based
Matt Porter
New company EOSS - St Louis based