Guido Von Rossum on Python

deran9ed writes ""People can get quite emotional about Python, in a way they rarely get about software," says van Rossum, who is now director of Python Labs at Digital Creations. In this question and answer interview, he explains why Python deserves such loyalty, when it is better to use Python than Perl, and why increasing numbers of business applications developers will be using Python for years to come. THe full article is on SearchEnterpriseLinux"

Comments

Re:This just in! [Here's what Larry Wall thinks]

[hobuddy]

"Perl is worse than Python because people
wanted it worse." - Larry Wall, 14 Oct 1998

This just in!

[Chester K]

...and just as newsworthy....

Larry Wall thinks Perl is pretty cool.

more technical

[jobber-d]

If you're looking for a more technical summary of Python, you can always read Eric Raymonds thoughts on it. you can find it here. http://noframes.linuxjournal.com/lj-issues/issue73 /3882.html

ramblings

[deran9ed]

First off sorry for the typo on submission of the article... Tom Christiansen wrote a nifty little comparison between Perl vs. Python. I've used Python quite a few times and don't know Perl well enough to even consider myself a programmer. However many times I've had to modify plenty of Perl scripts in order to use certain things I found useful, and one reason I would use Python over Perl is its ease of scripting. Perl can sometimes be confusing as heck.

According to Jon Udell here are his findings on Perl vs. Python

Perl Is Bigger, But Python Is Growing Faster.

Python Is More Deeply Object-Oriented.

Perl Is more Powerful And More Mature In Some Ways.

Perl Lacks A Killer App, Zope Is Python's Killer App.

Python Is Designed To Be A Good First Language For A Beginning Programmer, Whereas Perl Is Most Useful To Programmers Familiar With C, Sed Or Awk, And UNIX Command Idioms.

His complete write up is here. (warning the article is a bit long... 4 pages)

And finally Python Humor

Re:ramblings

[mlinksva]

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/python/2001/02/22/ pythonnews.html says

John Udell once described Digital Creations' Zope as Python's killer app, the application that was going to have everyone scrambling to learn Python. It hasn't proved to be much of a killer though. Web designers looking for solutions to their documentation management problems routinely dismiss it as overkill, developers as underkill, or too hobbling.

I haven't taken much more than a cursory look at Zope (several times over the last couple years), though that's about the impression I got: too much complication for too little gain.

Re:ramblings

[Spy Hunter]

From Python Humor:

Python vs. Perl according to Yoda
Subject: Python versus Perl: A humorous look
From: funkster@midwinter.com
To: guido@cnri.reston.va.us
Date: 10 Jul 1999 01:45:07 -0700

This has been percolating in the back of my mind for a while. It's
a scene from _The Empire Strikes Back_ reinterpreted to serve a
valuable moral lesson for aspiring programmers.

--
EXTERIOR: DAGOBAH -- DAY
With Yoda strapped to his back, Luke climbs up one of the
many thick vines that grow in the swamp until he reaches the
Dagobah statistics lab. Panting heavily, he continues his
exercises -- grepping, installing new packages, logging in as
root, and writing replacements for two-year-old shell scripts
in Python.

YODA: Code! Yes. A programmer's strength flows from code maintainability.
But beware of Perl. Terse syntax... more than one way to do it...
default variables. The dark side of code maintainability are they.
Easily they flow, quick to join you when code you write. If once
you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny,
consume you it will.

LUKE: Is Perl better than Python?

YODA: No... no... no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

LUKE: But how will I know why Python is better than Perl?

YODA: You will know. When your code you try to read six months from
now.
--

larry


[me@localhost]$ prolog
| ?- god.
! Existence error in god/0

Re:Don't use it.

[k8to]

1) Python has had license issues.

Python is transitioning from a bsd-like license to a bsd-like license. Those who wish to get their knickers in a twist over the in-between phase are grasping at straws.

Guido does not want to relinquish final control over Python, and he wants to get paid for what other language implementors do for free.

Linus does not want to relinquish final control over Linux. What's your point? Guido is the BDFL (Benevolent Dictator for Life) but the license does not prevent one from making alternate versions, and in fact this has been done more than once.

As for Guido wanting to get paid for doing Python work, sure.. why not? As for getting paid for what other people contribute, please explain yourself in some level of detail?

2) Python is defined by it's implementation. There's no standard for developers to rely on. That means ultimately you are at the mercy of the good or bad judgement of the Python team.

While there may no standards body stamping an official document, this statement also applies to Perl, TCL, and many other popular scripting languages in its class, as well as Java. In practical reality, there are mulitple implementations of Python which are in fact compatible, and have been multiple independent implementations for some time. I wouldn't get too worried about this "one implementation problem".

3) New versions break old programs. I do NOT want my customers to have to have 2 or 3 versions of Python installed.

The python 1.x -> 2.0 transition was painless for all those I have spoken with. I have not had any of my code hiccup or cough at all except perhaps to tell me that some packages have been deprecated over the years, though they still work.

If you compare this to the K&R -> ANSI C transition, or the TCL 7 -> 8 transition, or some of the severl perl transitions, it's a walk in the park.

4) There are better alternatives. Lisp or Ruby.

While these languages are interesting, they do not have the same advantages as Python. Some examples would be a clean readable language, a cohesive standard library, a simple syntax, and a strong OO heritage pulling from background such as smalltalk. Ruby and Lisp do interesting things of their own, but are not languages I would consider in the same breath. Ruby, FWIW, suffers from the same above problems as Python.

Python should be everywhere...

[costas]

...but it's not there yet.

I have respect for Perl (hell, I have respect for any general-purpose language than can beat egrep in text searches), but Python is my weapon of choice.

What people are missing in this forum is that Python is probably the most extensible language out there: there are at least 4 different interpreter implementations for Python (and I don't mean OSes): there's C-Python, there's Jython (in Java), there is Stackless Python and there will be a Python.NET. That's versatile guys, much more so than any other 4GL language out there.

Also, Python is hacker-friendly: armed with a couple of tools and a C compiler anybody can embed the interpreter in their own app or extend Python with existing C, C++, Fortran, Java, or even Perl code. Trust me, it's much easier than you think.

Python is easier for begginers to pick up: if you have a diverse group of people with different skills, you can use Python as a lingua franca. No reason to explain the legacy behind $_ or other such awkiness :-)

Most importantly though, a choice of language is a personal one: I liken Python code to a mathematical proof: it's clean, it's elegant, and if it's written by someone else a reader can easily pick up its deficiencies. Perl tends to be more like poetry: it can be beautiful (like that great DeCSS hack) but its beauty is subjective, and much like poetry a lot of people may never 'get it'.

At any rate, if you are a Perlista and you're here flaming away because of the whitespace thing, go to python.org and try the language out. My bet is that you will be happy to have done so.