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Palm Teases With Slim, Pretty New Models
stylewagon writes: "Yup, the 2 new Palm models were released today -- right on time. Palm's website has just been updated with all the info about them -- the new mono m500 and the colour m505. Both feature the new Palm Os4.0, expansion slots and (finally!) have a USB cradle (a la Handspring)" Well, they haven't actually been released -- the CNET article uses that old standby "unveiled" instead, but Palm says they'll be out mid- to late spring, in all their Secure Digital Expansion New Perfect World glory.
Actually, there needs to be a "Read the fucking article" catergory.
The article covered his concerns quite well.
From the article:
Both units use the same 160 pixel-by-pixel screen that has been on earlier models rather than the more dense screen that will be part of Sony's new Clie. The Sony unit, which will be launched first in Japan, has a 320-pixel by 320-pixel color screen and is also the first Palm-based handheld that can play digital audio files.
> I have a palm V which I've had for maybe 18 months, as you say using and charging it every day.
I don't want to have to charge it every day.
How long will a full charge last you? A couple of days of use? If it reliably lasts a week of heavy use, then maybe it would be servicable for what I want. Still, I like the ability to roam with my palm, and not have to worry about where to plug it in at night. That is why I chose my IIIe over the V. AAA's last months, and can be purchased cheaply anywhere I'm likely to go. And for the case where I can't buy AAA's (say...camping), I can pack an extra pair in less room than a charger would take, and again I won't need a plug.
To me, the only downside of using AAA's is that it makes for a thicker Palm. I wish someone would up and define a new thin, flat battery standard so that I could still use alkaline's in something thinner than a AAA.
As for the new palms...I'm glad they are moving to USB, but I'm a bit suspicious of this new port. I would appreciate being able to view big ebooks on my palm, but I resist the move towards copy control. We'll see how open it turns out. They way things are going, I'm not terribly optimistic.
--Lenny
What's wrong with the Visor Edge? It is extreamly similar to the Palm V in size and weight (it does need the strap on expand-o-slot if you want to use a springbord though).
Furthermore 2.5 stands to steal much of 3's thunder at a lower cost & with less disruption. Thus it's entirely poosible that 3G will be still-born. Indeed with a number of new LEO space-based technologies being developed it's entirely possble 3G may be completely leapfrogged.
Thus your question may be entirely moot. In any case it's at least less timely then would have been a few months ago when 3G was assumed to be the 'next big thing'.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
The question will be, I suspect, how well Palm OS variants react to the competition that's going to arise from EPOC 6.0 and what the take-up will be of the OS in the new 3G devices. The mobile providers have invested so much in buying the new licenses that they have to make the applications work, so if Palm lags behind the EPOC folks, then it's the EPOC apps which are going to get the development money.
Go to palmgear.com and search for web browser and you'll find one or two.
My
Yeah, copy control sucks, but it's a fact of life that companies developing media these days are gonna do it
TRG (now HandEra) has been offering a Palm device (TRG Pro) for over a year now that has a compact flash slot, 8MB of ram, and 2mb of flash ram. It is the same form factor as the Palm III, which while not as slim as the PalmV series is still very portable. TRG also typically has OS updates available and ready to be flashed even before palm.
TRG has also been leading the pack in terms of software that does the necessary swapping behind the scenes to make the compact flash expansion appear to be transparently available to palm applications.
Bill (happy owner)...
Mathematically impossible requirements are technically not against policy.
> The Palm expansion slot supports MMC and SD which includes SDIO cards. There isn't anything
> available yet, but is capable of everything the springboard slot is in a much smaller package.
Yeah, nice in theory. In practice, we don't even have 802.11b CF cards yet, which are much bulkier, let along SD form factor ones. No need to hold your breath there.
I cannot see the worth of an IBM microdrive in a Palm - no Palm generates the amount of data that would require one of these, to be honest.
Wasn't there some guy named Gates who said something similar about RAM? 640 something ...
Steve M
Palm's website doesn't tell me the most important thing -- Have they improved the screen resolution yet? Since there's no mention of it I assume not. If they've gone to a double-res screen (360x360, like the Sony Clie) as well as color I'll almost certainly buy it! If not, well... It looks nice, by my old Palm III continues to serve me well enough.
Chelloveck
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
Other people sort of posted replies about this, but no-one was explicit enough it seems - As far as I can tell SD is a totally different standard from SDMI. SD is just for cards with a certain amount of storage, rather like a compact-flash card. Now they might include an MP3 playing add-on that would support SDMI, but there's also no reason someone couldn't make a card to hold and play .ogg files as well.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I have 2 problems with it...
1. It looks to use a completely new connector on the edge, so I'd have to give up the 2 cradles, the travel kit, the folding keyboard (how cool) and the wireless modem.
2. I notice that the little cardslot in the top of the thing is a. Proprietary in the extreme, and b. Supports SDMI, to which I object because it works with the basic assumption that everyone using digital technology to store music, ebooks, etc. are thieves and are not to be trusted.
This is (in a way) Palm's answer to Sony w/ MemoryStick. But why should I (we) support yet another proprietary, crippled, (no doubt) tightly controlled, and more expensive memory technology?
Where the value of X-Mailer: is the true measure of a man...
There was a quick update they did when the IIIc came out that included some new functionality. Neat of them, but unlike any previous update, they decided that if you needed the 'features' you had to pay $20 for the new version.
Not exactly giving me an upgrade (or a reason to stick with Palm instead of going to a Jornada/iPaq running Linux... both of which I expect in the near future).
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
If you want a Palm PDA that can read mem-cards now, check out the one from TRG-Pro (basically a PalmIIx with a CF slot).
Personally, I'm going to probably wait until my Palm IIIx bites the dust and then move to an iPaq or Jornada running Linux (they are way sweet) so I can understand your feelings. I keep trying to justify it to myself now, but until they stabalize more (heck, my desktop can last 2-3 years without feeling outdated, and I still use my model from 5 years ago without too much problems) I don't see anything wrong with what works.
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
All of the Palm devices are way overpriced for their hardware - however software is the key, and is what differentiates the Palm from the WinCEs and others.
However, new hardware from other companies is appearing. The Franklin eBookman looks pretty good for a PDA sizes device, and there is a larger device called the myebook.
eBookman: 240x200 16-greyscale screen, PDA functionality, eBook functionality, 32-bit, custom OS, free development kit runs under Linux, USB connector to PC, MMC slot, slim, etc etc.
myebook: 480x400 16-greyscale screen, PDA functionality, eBook functionality, etc.
All that is required is for a critical movement to get behind one of these devices, which both make the Palm look stupid. The eBookman looks like a sure fire hit. Twice as much screen estate as the Palm, about the same size, slim, good feature set, and DAMN CHEAP. Yes, $129 to $229.
They just don't have the same following as the Palm, however it is new, and things will change for the better. With 8 or 16MB of RAM, lots of flash for the OS, an OS with real OS features (separate 1GB address spaces for apps, etc), this should appeal to the geek in every one of you.
Arrgh, none of the new models have user-replaceable batteries.. I have a Palm Pro which is on it's last legs, and I'm really apprehensive about getting a new unit that doesn't take external batteries. Maybe I'll get a IIIxe while they're on sale (really cheap now). See, I bought my Pro in 1995, and I've used it daily since then. (It's a USRobotics one, too :). I can't count the batteries I've gone through. Palm recently discontinuted almost ALL of the accessories for the pro, and you can't get the upgrade cards anymore. What would happen if it had an internal battery? I can tell you what would happen, I'd be paying $100 for a device that's not worth giving a way, and I'd be forced to buy a new one.
Does anyone know if you can buy the internal batteries seperately for a stockpile? Yes, I know they're not user-replaceable, but neither are the capacitors in a TV - doesn't mean you can't do it :). Or have any third-party manufacturers taken up the case yet for the Palm V/Vx owners - I quick search of deja/googlenews indicates that there are a LOT of people waiting a long time to get batteries replaced, something inacceptable IMHO.
Other than that.. *drool*.
..don't panic
First off, the m505 looks quite nice, color display, and all, but there are a couple of reasons I just got a Visor Plantium rather than a Palm.
:). Its got 8MB of memory and all that. Overall a very nice PDA that I would buy in a second.
First let me say that I had a Palm IIIx (I broke the display badly on) and I liked it. PalmOS is, IMHO, much better than WinCE/PocketPC/whatever it will be tomorrow. I needed a replacement for my Palm, and started looking around.
I want a Personal Digital Assistant, not a handheld desktop as many CE devices try to be. The only CE device that really stands out is the iPaq.
I looked hard at the Palm Vx. Its sleek, looks good, and all that asthetic nonesense
I also looked at the Sony CLIE. Its a very nice little device also, but compared to Palm and Handspring's offerings, its a little too expensive for what it offers.
The Visor has the lure of the Springboard. A lot of people will argue that (1) Springboard modules are too expensive, (2) There aren't enough out there to justify the Visor over anything else, and (3) The OS isn't upgradable. The Platinum is about the size of the Palm III, is comparable to the Vx only with a little more horsepower (33Mhz Dragonball). The Visor Prism would be nice, but I just don't have a need for color right now.
The Platinum being almost identical to the Palm III* and Vx (physical dimensions aside, Im not picky there), there are only a few things that do stand out: (1) Springboard: I like the idea and I like a couple of the modules, (2) Datebook+: Anyone whos used it or seen it used would agree, it is a bit nicer than Datebook, (3) USB Cradle: Anyone whos had a Palm knows how slow serial is, (4) Faster Processor: It may not sound much to have a faster processor in a PDA, but it really makes a world of difference.
I chose a Visor Platinum because it seems to offer a bit more for me than the Palm III* and V*, even though the V* does have a better asthetic feel. I don't really mind not being able to upgrade the OS, especially since 4.0 doesn't seem to offer much more to me.
No flame war intended, just my US$0.02 on why I got a Plantium.
I did read the link. The "Most of your applications will work as always." seems to imply that 4.0 will run 3.x and 2.x apps, not the other way around.
treke
I have to say, the heating up of the PDA wars is definitely getting interesting (Palm vs. Handspring vs. iPAQ), but I have to say the most intriguing part of this whole battle, to me, is the emergence (and advances) of wireless Interet access.
I currently have a Handspring Visor w/ OmniSky and am, for the most part, loving it. I think getting email and news while beyond the reach of my notebook/desktop is extremely cool.
BUT -- I saw the top-o-the-line iPAQ the other day w/ the wireless modem add-on, and, frankly, I'm impressed. First off, it's color & sleek (m505/Visor Prism matches it there), it's got a PCMCIA (or whatever they call it these days) expansion module, which means the wireless modem can also work on my laptop, and thirdly (and this is the most impressive part to me), it's got a FULL web browser built-in.
I've always been as anti-WinCE/Pocket-PC as one can get, but the fact that I browse full color, full-graphics, and full-text web pages (well, for the most part) on a palm-sized device is totally cool. I know this technology will improve, but PocketPC's definitley got the lead right now.
My question is how are these new Palms going to handle the whole net access question? I have high hopes -- there seems to be mention of the "Wireless Access Software", but that doesn't seem to be more than the 'ol IR-to-cellphone gig.
I'm waiting to see what kind of wireless modems are available for these devices, and what kind of web browsers will go along with them. If the modems are like the current Minstrels (i.e. tiny expansion slot but a modem that >doubles the overall size of the unit -- LAME), I'm going to have to keep waiting....:(
nlh
Ferrari and other exotic car rentals in New York
Thank you, I meant to add that but my lunch break was running out. :P
On a side note, I'd really like to see more people supporting TRG if for no other reason than so that they can continue a line of handhelds that don't suffer from braindead marketing... like a few others out there do.
Umm... well, so far I don't see anything innovative about either of these. The only new features seem to be:
1. PalmOS 4.0 - Okay, I wouldn't mind playing with it maybe, but it looks to perform exactly the same as 3.x.x.
2. MultiMediaCard Expansion Card Slot - Yay, just what we need, more proprietary expansion ports! Palm made a mistake by not supporting an expansion slot in their ealier models but do they really have to screw consumers like this?
The one true PalmOS device, in my opinion, is the TRGpro. I own one and I have to say that for the price, it beats the pants off any monochome Palm or Visor to date. It's basically a PalmIIIx, except it's got an industry standard Compact Flash slot. You can plug in modems, serial cards, barcodes, anything! It uses the same memory cards (up to 1GB with the IBM Microdrive) as a lot of digital cameras.
I remember when Palm used to innovate.
I'll keep this V for as long as it lasts, but Hell will freeze over before I buy another Palm. My next PDA will be one of the Linux devices on the market.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I *just* bought a Vx last week, and even with these new ones, I'm not sorry I did. Couple reasons. 1. that SDMI slot looks evil. 2. USB connectivity is proprietary.
That is, Palm (unlike Handspring) won't release the specs on the USB protocol they are using in their USB cradles. This was an issue with the later models of the Vx, as they also have USB cradles.
In a nutshell: Currently, there is no way to connect a Palm-brand PalmOS device with a USB connector with Linux. Sucks.
Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
But must one realize, thats how they make their money! They make profit on the units, but not nearly as much as selling an aluminum case for 40$! A serial cable for 30$! A stylus for 20$.
Lastly, I don't care if it weighs 10 pounds, it has to be thinnnnnnn. Thin means it fits in a wallet case, thin means its not a burden to carry.
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
in OS 3.5, but instead they put a little "visible hidden field" feature in. With TealLock activated, a friend of mine tried this feature on his Palm IIIx, and it screwed things up to the point that he had to wipe the Palm and HotSync the data back in.
You're referring to "Mask Records", as opposed to hiding or showing them. The newest version of TealLock (been out for at LEAST six months) fully supports that. My Vx locks and masks private records at 4AM daily.
--
Then again, if Palm doesn't consider it to be worthwhile to create security upgrade for old PalmOS versions, we can always use our money for one of those Linux or *BSD based PDAs, when its time to buy new PDA. With those, you have little bit more options regarding updates and such...
P.S. Yes, I am aware of GNU Keyring for PalmOS project, but it won't protect calendar and todo entries that I have in standard PalmOS applications.
I have tried and tried to justify an upgrade, but my Palm III is still truckin' along with no end in sight.
My wife got a III shortly after I did, a couple of years ago. We both became Palm junkies. Her III bit the dust and she's carrying a Visor now. My III is still fine. Maybe all my idle talk about upgrades scared it into behaving.
When the time comes to upgrade I will seriously look at the Microsquish powered PDAs though... It would be nice to have a full color PDA that can read the CF memory cards from my digital camera.
Wow, the eBookman DOES look nice. And cheap. But it syncs to Windows only, according to the spec sheet. And even worse, it looks like it syncs to Outlook. I can't stand Outlook OR Outlook Express, and I don't want to use them as my contact manager.
Currently I am a PalmOS user, and I like the way that Palm has a lightweight Windows client for searching/adding organizer events & contacts. On the Mac side it is even better, since they use a rebranded version of Claris Organizer. But Outlook... . Invasive bloatware. Ack. And even though I use Windows most of the time, I have Macs too and generally refuse to buy stuff like PDAs unless it works with both platforms.
Why doesn't anyone make a decent PDA with a keyboard anymore? It seems style has been firmly placed in front of function.
The last good PDA w/ keyboard was the Psion 3c, they lost the plot with the Psion 5/Revo, and all WinCE handhelds I've seen with keyboards have sucked.
*Grumble*
Still no word on screen resolution... I assume if they aren't touting 320x320, that means they are still at 160x160. Of course, that is all PalmOS 4.0 can handle is 160x160, anything higher (e.g. Sony Clie) uses some sort of pixel doubling or something.
I emailed OmniSky last week to ask if they have support for the Palm505 yet. They said that they were not ready to announce any new support yet. But made it sound like they would. The link above lists Minstrel modems (the ones OmniSky uses) available in April 2001. So I assume shortly after the m505 hits shelves OmniSky will have full support. That gives users a full TCP/IP stack (afaik), modem for $199 with rebate, unlimited service for $39.95/month.
The new vibrating/silent/audible alarms being built in is a nice touch.
And it appears that applications will be able to be run directly off the SD Cards. That's a good thing too.
Personally, I would like to order one, they sound great... but I'm just unsure of the life of this thing. If Palm is going to release a 320x320 device with a StrongARM processor next year, I may just wait. But for now, I'm planning on buying one when they hit store shelves.
-- null
Here is a link to the MultiMediaCard Association. How are MultiMedia Cards different from CompactFlash or PCMCIA cards? Why are they necessary?
Here is the devils Question: How is the MultiMediaCard a tool of the content providers to implant a technology to subvert fair-use rights and user freedom / How does the choice of MultiMediaCards & Secure Digital tie in?
Sorry if I dont feel warm and fuzzy about Palm's adoption of a standard that will ultimately be the means to extend RIAA/MPAA/"Content Owners" rights while displacing my own as a private citizen... (Assumption of guilt built into technology required by collusive monopolies)
And Further - why would i want to spend my money to buy this device if it entails adopting a technology that provides me zero benefit... and 'them' the real benefit (see afore mentioned 'Citizen-Fucking-Method(TM)')
- OR - Am I being overly pessimistic about what 'Secure Digital' Could possibly mean...
The Palm OS 4.0 page says that your Palm can now lock automatically when you turn it off. It just amazes me that it took them this long to implement just one of the many great features of TealLock. I've been using TealLock for the last two and a half years and it has had that feature the whole time. Additionally, it can simply hide your "hidden" files automatically when you turn off your Palm - do you really need to lock your Palm each time you turn it off?
Also, TealLock lets you simply use a shortcut to hide and show records while in any application (and the same applies to locking/unlocking), so you don't have to go into Palm Prefs, goto Security, choose "Show Records," and then return to the app you were in.
It seems to me that Palm still has a ways to go before they implement this. I had been hoping that they would put this in OS 3.5, but instead they put a little "visible hidden field" feature in. With TealLock activated, a friend of mine tried this feature on his Palm IIIx, and it screwed things up to the point that he had to wipe the Palm and HotSync the data back in. Palm should license the TealLock software, as it is clearly superior to any security software they produce.
If you want MP3 support I guess you need to go to Handspring. Which is fine by me.
sulli
RTFJ.
What are you talking about? The most popular "new form of media" to appear recently, and become popular, has to be CD-R - which doesn't involve copy protection. On the contrary copy protection is a formula for failure - e.g. Memory Stick. (Do you know anyone who uses it? I don't!)
sulli
RTFJ.
Wow.. Whats the year again? Oh yeah, 2001 - That's the future isn't it? And palm is still sticking with the blocky 160x160 screen?!? *wow*.. I mean, my Amiga 500 worked great at the time, but its time to move on
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Vices - what I lack in originality, I make up for in volume.
Look cool...
Like a Titanium Powerbook?
Sorry, that's beside the issue I wanted to reply to =)
As per horrid gaming boxes; they have a faster processor, more memory, and higher resolution than a comparable (though cheaper) Gameboy Color.
Those things have been successful for 11 years now, so I don't think it's fair to say that a Visor or Palm makes a 'horrid' game box.
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
Actually, in comparison, the Edge is 0.1oz lighter than the m500 or m505, 0.06in thinner, but 0.2in taller, with the same memory and screen size (lacking only color)
Sorry for the horridly constructed sentence structure. Edge doesn't get Palm OS 4.0, but compensates with a non-sdmi expansion slot and hitting the same price point.
Anyway, I think you're right, people will pay some more for style and flair. Look at the Titanium Powerbook!
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
Right, now I've got that off my chest. Heres what I want to say.
The m505 is possibly the greatest move palm have done so far. The Vx was (and still is) one of the best organisors they've released. Yes its horribly expensive but it looks good, has good specs (for a palm) and is light.
Handsprings attempt is very nice and all that but you lose the good looks and the lightness. Now we have a colour pda thats only 0.9 oz heaver than the Vx. Bargain!
When I fist got my Vx I avoided the IIIc because it was bulkier and looked horrible. Now if I was thinking of buying again, then i'd go straight for the m505. No question. Yes the handspring is cheaper, but as Palm have found out, people are happy to pay more for something that looks good and is light.
--
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
I just bought a palm a year ago, only to find that I had got not the latest model, i.e palm 5. And now here there are more models coming in. I think it would be best to wait another couple of years when we'll be more clear on 3G and other recent developments to settle down on a relatively stable model (something like Win '95 which performs well enough for the common man)
There's always sufficient, but not always at the right place nor for the right folks.
palm 505 is section of the bible isn't it?
--Joey
It's a good thing they didn't call it the "m404". Hell, I have difficulty finding my existing Palm from time to time. :-)
Why bother.
The Palm platform is largely unchanged - except for additional memory - since its early days. New 'official' improvements to the OS should be available to everyone, right? Grr... damn marketing drones.
Why bother.