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CPUC Tells Northpoint To Restart Network
cprael writes: "According to San Jose Mercury article, the California Public Utilities Commission has ordered Northpoint to relight their network and provide all California customers service for 30 days. The intent being to allow them time to migrate to a new service in an orderly manner. This is probably the tip of the iceberg in terms of court actions - personally, I expect to see a lot of lawsuits aimed at Northpoint, the ISPs, and anyone else within reach over Northpoint's abrupt shutdown." It will also probably strike at the heart of arguments about how regulated (and by whom) ISPs ought to be.
Well said.. for a communist. While we're at it though, let's add government provided health care, electricity, telephone service, cable TV (we just HAVE to have cable.. have you watched broadcast tv lately?), gas, and water. I think everything should just be provided by the government and we should just give our entire paychecks to them in the form of taxes. That'd be a great idea. Then when you want food you just go up to the local government owned grocery store, show your state ID and have them swipe it to see if there is any credits left on your fair share allotment of food.
I live in Brooklyn, NY in a neighborhood that the cable companies would like to think doesn't exist and where I have limited DSL availability. I was very pleased with my ISP (Evolving Edge), but this Northpoint thing has me wondering something (besides when my DSL will shut off)...
Are we trying to enter the information age too quickly?
Northpoint isn't the only one in trouble, many bandwidth providers are in it deep.
The TINY, TINY margins on computing hardware can't possibly sustain the general computing hardware industry (PC organ bank).
Software is still a black art, even to the wizards.
Have you guys ever stopped to consider that the vast majority of the gains we've made in the computer industry has been the result of two things:
1. Running in the red and living on capital until we either drive the competition under or our investors come to collect.
2. A process model of development (hardware AND software) that rewards flying-by-the-seat-of-our-pants and brute-force solutions instead of a careful engineering methodology.
Perhaps we need a technology (bandwidth, hardware, software) crash that pauses Moore's law for 10 years while we take the time to think up elegant and sustainable solutions to the problems we are tryin to solve?
Jeez, man. THINK!
Cheap shot, as in $0.63 on the dollar(CAD).
I wrote parts of this stuff
Some ISPs are CLECs because they need to rent local loops, like Northpoint (which is not an ISP, but a wholesaler). Some ISPs are CLECs because they want reciprocal compensation for terminating calls. But there is nothing compelling ISPs to register as CLECs, nor is there any regulatory body that can claim any dominion over ISPs to any greater extent than any other business. What that means is that no precedent is being set here w.r.t. ISPs.
I wrote parts of this stuff
Anybody who didn't see northpoint going under 3 months ago and take appropriate action deserves what they got. Jato suffered the same fate. It was pretty clear several months out that they were becoming a FC.
Just think of Ayn Rand's stuff as comic books on the wrong end of the 1 picture = 1000 words equation.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Could we then use the Freedom of Information Act to sue for access to MS code, along with other eveidence of atrocities?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Does AT&T have any cable television operations, including cable modem service, going on in any of the affected areas?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
It's really spelled "evidence". April Fool.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Disclaimer: IANAL, IANAAC, IDKWITA, but here goes:
Since there seems to be a law requiring them to give thirty days notice, it is entirely possible that the state will pay the operating cost for the next thirty days -- money which will in turn be pulled in from the bankruptcy proceedings. I believe the order of importance during a bankruptcy is the government, primary creditors (like banks, lawyers and accountants), secondary creditors (you and me), then the owners (fat chance). This means that they would be fairly sure of getting their money back.
/Janne
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
A responsible business executive shuts down the business in an orderly fashion before all of the assets are gone.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- California regulators Friday ordered NorthPoint Communications Inc.'s remaining five employees to upkeep the major internet service provider's operatons and swindle its service providers out of monetary obligations for another 30 days.
One anonymous official said: "I don't see how a company going bankrupt has anything to do with its service being suspended. This shouldn't happen."
It remained unclear, however, how exactly operations would be upkept, as the majority of Northpoint's staff has been laid off, and its bills have remained unpaid for over a month. Regulators say they will not pay Northpoint's bills but expect them to provide service anyway.
This doesnt quite seem right, all of their assetts have been auctioned to AT&T for $135M. They have filed bankruptcy and are going through that process. Where is the money going to come from to stay alive for the next month?
More reasons to go with Pac Bell.. After my first DSL bankruptcy fiasco I'm just sticking with the company that made a pact with the devil to stay in business. It's no coincidence their address is 666 Howard St, San Francisco..
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
So why can't CPUC just order PacBell to hook up the NP customers who sign up for the service in 5 days instead of 7 weeks.
Can pigs fly? Only if CPUC orders them to.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Same shit happened to me on thursday - my ISP (Reflex Communications) filed for Chapter 7 bankrupcy and just dissapeared. Unfortunately they did happen to hold a record for a few domain names etc. More or less was a pain in the ass for me to deal with =(
Which province is that?
Maybe it's time to consider state owned and run high-speed internet providers.
No.
No way.
No fucking way in hell.
Take a good long look at your state government, federal government, various departments such as transportation, bureau of motor vehicles, welfare, taxation, etc.. look at how those departments actually run.. then take your meds and come back and say that again.
If it was left to the government, we'd just now be getting those new kickass 4800bps modems. And you would probably be paying $0.01/packet tax to boot.
-'fester
According to http://biz.yahoo.com/apf/010330/northpoint_closure _2.html, there doesnt seem to be anyone left to turn on the lights. the remnants of what was NP only exist to continue a $1B suit againt Verizon.
Man.. you would figure the California public utilities commission would have enough on it's plate at the moment! "Damn, my ISP just went down.. guess that UPS I bought wasn't the only thing I needed to do to guarentee my 24hr/day mp3 snarfing abilities."
How we know is more important than what we know.
*sits down at the fire, puts his cane down*
Why, I remember waaay back when the state *did* run the internet. Let's see, it must have been what, 10 years ago. It was an aweful mess. I mean where would we be without the lovely corporations like AOL, Network Solutions, @Home? They are just so much more productive then the National Science Foundation (or for us Canadians, BCNet, OntNet, etc.) Oh yes, thank the gods that now when something goes wrong, I have to track down the little local ISP that owns the domain, find out that they no longer own the domain, but that noone remembered to update the technical contact, or worse get a "Sorry the number you have reached is out of service".
Seriously, having worked professionally in both environments, I found the old regulated system to be much easier on the nerves. Most of the people running them were at least competent, if not outstanding, since there wasn't 100 companies competing for their services. You knew when you called the CAnet NOC that you were gonna get someone with a clue. When was the last time you tried to find someone with a clue in @home land to deal with something like a BGP peering problem?
Minupla
--
Remove the rocks to send email
On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
Well, perhaps my expectations have dropped too low given problems I've had in the past, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that Telocity (my ISP on top of Northpoint) had, within 3 days, managed to get a contract with a national dial-up provider so that customers like me could still get on the 'net. Unlimited dial-up, no extra charge and they aren't charging us until they get DSL back up. Good thing, too, since my backup dialup access method only provides 10 hrs/month without those pesky hourly fees...
They say they'll have another DSL carrier for us in 3 weeks or so.
--LP
"No, it's I-gor."
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
The more regulation, the more chance the ISPs will be awarded common carrier status. Which means they can't be told to shut down a user because of what he's posting, and the spinelessness of ISPs will cease to be a barrier to free spech on the Internet. If the user paid, he gets his 'net time.
--
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
When ISP service becomes a legal right instead of a luxury service, I think it's safe to say that the Internet has taken its place as a fundamental part of life in society.
Ahhh... but at what cost? Everything in life, down to the basic elements of Earth, Wind, Fire and Water are regulated by goverments both local and national.
If the government now sees Internet access as a right, God help us. You see, each government, from the smallest local one, to the U.N. believe they are legislating to the benefit of their constituents, but clearly they don't all share the same ideology. It will be impossible for businesses to comply with (or probably even be aware of) every regulation at every level of government in every place where they do business (thanks to the Internet.)
Remember the story of Yahoo vs France over Nazi memorabilia. That's not even the tip of the iceberg. It's just a slight dip in the water temperature caused by a giant iceberg over the horizon.
Never be happy that the government thinks something is fundamental or important. Nothing good can come of it.
--
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
Second, Northpoint filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy, which is "protection from creditors". That doesn't dissolve all obligations they have, it just means they can put off paying some bills for a while.
So it's entirely appropriate for the CPUC to issue an order of the type they did.
Why does everybody always have to make things so complicated? What's the point of ISPs, or those special internet connections anyway? This is my idea: get a lot of people to put special mirrors on their roofs, and act as relays while everybody shines lasers at them. Or, a more covert laser communication system is to give every person in the world a number. When you want to transmit that number to others all you do is shine a laser in the eye of the person with that number. They read about it, or see it somewhere and think "Oh, #9457438470 is blind, somebody is sending me the word the" Granted it would take a lot of time and people to send big MP3s or movies, but it would be worth it. Or if that does not work, just have really loud people yelling out the packets. But those can phones are still the best. Something else I'd like to say (offtopic, but don't hate me for this).
Has anyone looked at the different languages supported by Google? By personal favorite is their made up language named "Bork, bork, bork!". Check out Google prefs in Bork,bork,bork for an example. This is my default now
Until high speed internet access is defined as an essential service (as it is in Canada), the courts cannot force a bankrupt company to rupture even more money and turn the network back on.
Hmmmm. Yet another example of the dangers of de-regulation (or no regulation) of what is considered an essential service????? Haven't those silly Californians learned their lesson yet?
Feed The Need[goatse.cx]
One thing that the article left out is that the CPUC actually has some power in this (their gesture is not entirely symbolic at this point). If the CPUC is unhappy they can refuse to approve the transfer of Northpoint's assets (see a copy of the CPUC's ruling at dslreports.com). This would, naturally, be a significant roadblock in the AT&T deal, which is the only thing that will let Northpoint's creditors even see pennies on the dollar. So, if the CPUC holds firm, some amount of justice will be done. Read the dslreports.com coverage of the negotiations between the ISPs and Northpoint to fund a more orderly transition. The reason it did not happen is that the bankers and other creditors of Northpoint got greedy. They wanted to take lots of the ISPs' money without giving any guarantees about the level or length of service they would provide for a transition.
Question: under the .NET program, would Microsoft be an ISP and/or similar service provider?
If MS becomes wildly successful with the .NET initive, and if it is a monopoly as ruled in court, does this legal action open the door to the government takeover of Microsoft down the road, in the Public interest, since they are a monopoly, since they will have made themselves essential to the welfare of America?
[Insert Fantasy sequence] And further, under such a take over, could they regulate the quality of code? such as making it some sort of criminal offense to write code with an excessive number of bugs. - think of it - microsoft code being reviewed and managed like they do it for the Space Shuttle. (see original story here.)
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I am currently with covad but I am not worried about them becoming bankrupt becau
DSL service terminated
I think we're beginning to see the reality that is becomming apparent. As web access and online services, businesses, and communities, begin to flourish, we are becomming increasingly dependant on providers. Schools all have access to the web, and my own provincial government is spending $1000 CND on each family to help them get a computer and online.
But if we are going to make access to the web available to all, under certain conditions, we don't want to have it regulated right? Well, I think that's becomming less and less of a possibility. Just as governments control radio and television, it seems that the only way to gurantee the infrastructure related to high-bandwidth connections at home is to have the industry responsible to a body of some sort. Now the industry can't exactly police itself can it? Does it need policing at all? The questions will only come in time.
I think I thought I thought I think.
yoink
Everything in life, down to the basic elements of Earth, Wind, Fire and Water are regulated by goverments both local and national.
But what about Ether?
"And like that
And all of those lawsuits will end up with the plaintiffs getting nothing, because NorthPoint is pretty much bankrupt. How much? I quote from a former NorthPoint employee's comments to DSLReports.com:
"Somehow NorthPoint officials decided that they are NOT going to pay employees any vacation balances exceeding 25 hours. That's right, three days!!! No severance package of any kind. This is the thanks one gets after their hard work and dedication for the past two years. But somehow in the midst of all this, [NorthPoint CEO] Liz Fetter still manages to receive a $45,000 bonus tomorrow."
NorthPoint will use up the remainder of their money to pay Liz Fetter. No severance to former employees, and no possible settlements or payouts as a result of filed lawsuits.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
It is really interesting to see this same idea being equated with ISPs. If anything, it shows how important and and integral part of our lives the internet has become. So in this case, I agree with the State of California. Northpoint provides a valuable service that is a necessary part of economic survival for many businesses. They can't just pull the plug.
Of course, a similar situation has occurred in the past when the government has forced striking workers back to work, or that failing, manned their positions with soldiers. Sergeant Sys Admin anyone?
State Owned Industry == Communism
State Run Industry == Fascism
This is true. Look it up. And we all know about the success histories of both forms of government.
Like some others here, I used to work in government contracting. What a nightmare that was. It was definately "Your Tax Dollars at Play". And with our government, your tax dollars like to play Dodgeball. On one contract, we were required to partner with one of our competitors because they qualified as a "small business" and we did not. They had almost a hundred employees. There were only eight of us. We had to split the budget 50 / 50, but we were expected to do all the manufacturing while they "managed" the project. By the time we worked out all the contract terms and budgeting stupidity (and paid a lot of money to the lawyers), we only had two months left of the original twelve to actually complete the contract and only a third of the original budget.
When a private company performs badly, you can allways take your business elsewhere or start your own company to do things properly. It can be very difficult and messy if you try to do the same thing with government.
This order only affects Northpoint's California customers. Unfortunately, they had about sixty thousand customers outside of California (mostly in New York, Massachusetts, Texas, and Illinois). Those people are out of luck.
Maybe it's time to consider state owned and run high-speed internet providers. Increasingly, it looks like private enterprise is unable to meet the needs of the public for reliable high-speed connectivity, especially in less populated areas of the country. The way things have been going recently, the only way a substantial portion of the population is going to get dependable broadband is if the government steps in and provides it.