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Tribes2 and Alpha Centauri for Linux
Time Doctor writes: "Wow, Tribes 2 and Sid Meiers Alpha Centauri are actually shipping from Loki next week :-)
Faith has brought Linux Gamers two new games, and if sales are good, more will come. Sure we had some sad news today about the Indrema, but, keep hope alive! (thanks to Linux Games for the tip)."
I cannot overstate the importance of these two titles for Linux gaming. As most of you know, the expirmental retail Linux release of Quake 3 was, by publishing standards, a failure. Linux Tribes 2 is the most high-profile port since Q3, and rest assured both industry developers and publishers will once again be watching to determine if Linux is worth their time. Furthermore, Loki cannot continue to port titles if the ones they do publish are not purchased; so spread the word (many Linux users were unaware Loki had ported anything beyond Civilization: Call to Power) if you want Linux gaming to be a viable option. It's even more difficult for Linux porters (Loki, Tribsoft, Hyperion) to make a profit on their work considering they have to mark up the retail price to recoup the inherent losses that go with filling a niche market (Win32 titles can sell for much lower due to established publishers, retail chains, customers, etc.)... it's a vicious circle, but the only way to break it is to support what's out there now to forge the foundation for later growth.
In short, holding off Linux game purchases because the releases are not timely (i.e., on par with Windows) or cheap will ensure that they will always be neither.
Btw, as has been stated elsewhere on this story, Linux Tribes 2 is being released only 2 weeks after the Win32 version, which is hardly a significant period of time.
:wq
Now, fast forward to Tribes 2, which was initially heralded as a Windows/Mac simultaneous release. The Mac version was quietly cancelled last year. The PC version just came out two weeks ago... and large numbers of users complained when it crashed frequently. The release was really only beta-quality, and a handful of patches appeared over the next few days and nights to hastily fix the worst problems.
On the in-game news board, Sierra actually posted an apology for the poor quality of the initial release, but they tried to defend themselves by pointing out the various hardware configurations they had to code for:
And thus they said they had to test over 75,000 different hardware configurations, so it's inevitable there would be some problems. (Not to mention that they wrote it for OpenGL and for Direct3D!) They end their apology by saying: "So now you can understand why developers are so interested in the Xbox."
I just have to point out that if Sierra had released the game on the Mac first, they would only have had to write it to support OpenGL and InputSprockets, which every Mac ships with support for out-of-the-box. Once they were sure the engine was solid, it would have been much easier at that point to work on the Windows port.
Sure, it would have postponed their Windows profits to release on the Mac first... but how much money has Sierra already lost through returns by people who couldn't get the game to run, through having to pay a support staff to handle the complaints and a dev team to work on patches ASAP, and through the bad word-of-mouth that the game's quality is terrible?
(Of course, this is the same Sierra which refused to release an almost-completed Mac Half-Life, and which cancelled the Babylon 5 game for which special video had been shot with the original series actors. Maybe money grows off trees in their land.)
I'm sorry, but the whole of the gaming worl uses it.
Except for that which doesn't.
Even consoles are getting it, like the XBox.
Haha. XBox is 1) made by MS, who by chance also makes DirectX and 2) basically a PC in a pretty box. Try again when PS2 uses DirectX.
Games that don't use it, such as WuakeIII, are very dificult to install.
What are you talking about? DirectX has nothing to do with installing (other than every game wants you to install DirectX, even if you already have it)? InstallShield works no matter what, and if you'd ever used Loki's installer, you'd know they aren't any different.
You people need to buy things.
You need to grab a clue about the "people" you're talking about. Seriously, you sound like a microserf from 1996 talking about us "longhairs who want everything for free".
Normal people=market.
Wow, almost a point. Yeah, Linux won't be a gaming platform until it gets bigger market share. How +1, insightful.
12 month old crap like what is being touted here
Like Tribes2? Damn, if you've had it for 12 months, why have you been holding out?
I suspect I will be flamed and modded down for this, but it is the truth.
Yeah, if "truth" means FUD based on other 5-year old FUD.
The enemies of Democracy are
I pre-bought Quake 3 For Linux, and I had to wait some time for it too because Loki was shipping to US customers first (I am Canadian). I recieved it some time after the Windows version was in stores, it also cost me almost twice as much as the Windows version.
:)
I am not going to bitch about that though, I bought the Linux version because I believe in supporting Linux.
When I purchased Unreal Tournament, there was no official Linux version. I sent my registration card back to Epic, and scrawled across the top in bright red ink were the words: "PURCHASED FOR USE WITH LINUX", lo and behold, there is official support from Loki for UT now.
I bought Deus Ex the instant it hit the shelves (I own anything and everything to do with Warren Spector), I did the same with this, sending the registration card to Edios with the same words on it.
Next thing I know there is a announcement about Deus Ex for Linux. Unfortunatly I had already finished Deus Ex. =( I would have waited had I known.
I knew Tribes 2 was coming out for Linux. That is why I did not buy the Windows version. I knew the Linux version would eventually come. My friend went into EB World and asked about the Linux version of Tribes 2, and he got a scoff from the sales person, "Linux? Who uses that? No, we don't carry any Linux software." My friend bought the Windows version (and now has a Linux server running) and the salesperson said "Heh, still gonna buy the Windows version eh?"
My friend responded "Yeah, I guess I don't have a CHOICE."
Just to be a bastard (Yeah, I have read the Advocacy how-to) I went into that EB World, picked up Tribes 2, and said "Cool! Tribes 2!" (With the same sales person next to me) I made a pretense of looking at the side of the box and then said, "Hmmm, it mentions the Linux server here on the side of the box, but nothing about the Linux client." He got smug again and said "Nah, we don't carry and Linux games."
I said "Oh, too bad, guess I will have to buy my games off of the internet then... bye." (Most of the local LUG is going to go do this to EB World...
Probably not the best solution, I don't know if I would reccomend that one...
So, yes, I buy Linux versions of software whenever it is avalible, and I make it known that I want more Linux software avaliable. My friend Todd who purchased Tribes 2 at EB World will probably play the game under both Windows and Linux, and certanly run the server on Linux, but he won't wait for the Linux versions of games, and he certanly won't pay more for them.
I can't say as I blame him really. It is not fair that we have to wait longer, its even less fair that the same software should cost more for Linux. So, if you can't be bothered to actually buy a Linux version of a game, fill out the registration card (Marketers for software companies take these *VERY* seriously, I know the ones at my work do!) and write in big bold letters "PURCHASED FOR USE WITH LINUX."
If you can't vote with your dollars (which is the best idea) then vote with the registration cards. It makes a huge difference.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
1) Tribes2 is not old at all. This is a long-planned near-simultaneous release. The Windows version came out like a week ago.
2) What software is available for Linux? Well, there's WordPerfect Office 2000 and Oracle 8i, to name a couple of fairly heavy-duty apps. Also, IBM DB2 and ViaVoice. Then of course there are the thousands of 'minor' applications like Blender and the GIMP. True, none of those are the 'heavyweight' office automation package (I assume you mean MS Office), but they are some pretty major applications.
Another way of looking at this is that it would be better for Linux to have -some- high-visibility apps than none, even if they are a little older.
>If this game is successful,
Big if.
> and many people playtest the engine
Notice that its still being debugged after its released. People call it good for a beta.
>and submit bug reports and the folks at Tribes2 keep on top of it,
They seem to be doing so too. Every day seems like a new patch day.
> you might see a whole slew of mods that may rival Half-Life's in terms of quality, only this time on the Linux desktop.
Er... no. HalfLife is a strange creature. Alot of companies would die to have that sort of community support but they can't seem to replicate it. Look at Quake3. Its available for Linux and modable, but nothing that noteworthy which gets close to TFC/CS is out yet.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
If you were thinking about going out and just getting Tribes 2 for Linux, you may want to think again. I've been on the beta cycle for it, and have lost countless hours doing nothing more than sitting in front of my computer playing it. Infact, I would say that unless you're absolutely sure you won't mind being seriously addicted to a game for the next dozen months, you should think again.
There are lots of good reviews about Tribes 2 (for Microsoft and Linux alike), so I won't touch on the game here (go read them!)
Seriously, the only thing that is a draw back in this game is the hardware needed to play it (it's just as bad - if not worse - on Microsoft). But if you've been looking for an excuse or good time to upgrade your system (3D card specifically), this is definately it.
3)Get some bloody normal people to use the OS. Just now its all Bearded GNU types and warezing kiddies, at least when it is being used in the home. Linux is a business OS, not a home OS. Normal people=market.
Here we've got the chicken and the egg problem. You need to get people to use the OS to get companies to make apps/games, but you need apps/games to get people to use the OS. Loki's really sticking their neck out (I would think - don't really know what sales are like) by selling Linux versions of games that are already available on Windows. Nevertheless, it's a good thing they are, because if Tribes2 sells well other companies will start to look at Linux as a potential platform as well.
I'd definetly consider buying Tribes2 for Linux - if I could get it at Electronics Boutique, so I could return it in the event that it doesn't work on my machine. euroderf's right on the DirectX thing. I've only tried installing demos on Linux because the risk of going out and buying it is too great at the moment.
It alkso needs new games, not 12 month old crap like what is being touted here.
Didn't Tribes2 just come out like a week or two ago? I think Loki's done a pretty good job on that one! Alpha Centauri may be a different story, but I choose to look at it as glass-half-full.
hoser: Slashdot reader since 1987.
But I'm kind of wondering how many of these people will actually buy the Linux version of these games? It seems like everyone wants someone else to buy the games. Even though I really want to see Linux succeed as a gaming platform, I seriously doubt I'll buy either of these. Usually if I want to play a game, I'll hop on my Windows box. In my experience, its been much easier to get something to work on my Windows box than on a Linux box.
I know that Linux is in a Catch 22 where games won't succeed until people buy them, but no one will buy them until lots of games come out. I wish I could say that I would buy one of these ports to support Loki. But honestly, I know I won't. And I'm pretty sure few Slashdot readers will. I just hope that in a few years, I'll be able to change my stance and say that getting a game to work on my Linux box is just as easy as my PC.
Anyone else feel the same way?
Last night I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas I'll never know.
Buy it. Seriously. Even if it isn't stocked at your local CompUSA. That is assuming you want more games to come to linux...
-Brian
"Faith strikes me as intellectual laziness." -Robert A. Heinlen
This is a big deal for linux gaming. This time you have to either commit to buying the linux version, or stick to playing on windows only. (To help with the choice, the Linux version is reported to run BETTER than the win version by the people who tested it and have played both.)
If Tribes 2 fails on Linux (and there's a fair chance it may) we may have missed the last effort of this level to bring Blockbuster games to our OS at the same time as win players, and the ONLY way to make sure companies have a reason to release Linux games is to back up our talk with our cash. We've all said that Linux has a market that game developers shouldn't ignore, but this is the point where we need to put up or shut up, because the free ride is over, and each of us has to make a choice, the results of which will impact every future title.
If you can't tell, I'm afraid of what the future of big-name gaming on Linux will be unless companies stop losing money on ports.
oh, and please check out the linux tribes website too...
________
The EB I worked at part time sold out of the Windows limited edition tin, and had a half dozen Linux tins lying around from the day it shipped until recently, when most got handed back to the home office. They probably only sold about one or two copies in the store itself, perhaps the home office decided to sell them online for next to nothing? They do that every so often for various games.
:-)
The home office also recently shipped new store layout plans regarding a linux section, so the store finally has a linux section. No Mac section, but a linux games section.
Aimed at political leftists?
Sure, I see the connection... its open source, and somehow if one thinks hard enough they can conjure up a relation to socialism, which obviously to us right-wingers-living-in-our-bomb-shelters might as well be communism spelled differently.
Well, I'm pretty far to the right... and I love Linux. Most of my friends are right-wing too... they also "get it" when it comes to Linux. I like Linux for the same reasons you do... it does what its told and doesn't fuck up every third time like certain other OSes. We evil right-wing capitalists lose a shitload of money when our servers don't run... so we like things that don't crash. We also don't like spending more money when a better solution requires spending less money.
No heavyweight applications?
As for heavyweight applications, well, Linux has plenty. How about Apache? (60% of the Web). Oracle? DB2? First-tier Java support? (I personally love this one, as its saved/made my company hundreds of thousands of dollars.)
Desktop apps, you say?....WordPerfect, CorelDraw, Gimp, KOffice, and StarOffice, Gnumeric, GNUCash... and more little utility apps (Napster clones, MP3 players, FTP clients, Clock applets, Solitaire/Minesweeper games, and NetLoad meters than a big horse can shit.
The only apps I need to make me never even want to look at a Windows box again are CounterStrike and a Mozilla 1.0 based Galeon. I'll put my Mom on it once we get to the point where all desktop-oriented tasks (including software installation/management and hardware configuration) can be done without using a shell. (And Ximian seems to be making some VERY NICE progress on both these fronts).
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There's already SDL, which has been getting some nice, positive feedback as a good, cross-platform multimedia API. Note that Win32 is one of those platforms. Oh, and the API has nothing to do with the install. If you've ever tried a Loki game installation, they're really smooth and easy. Unreal Tournament installed just fine on my system.
3)Get some bloody normal people to use the OS.
And one of the best ways to lure users is to get some games for it. Loki porting some Windows games to Linux is a step in that direction. Face it, the general public is not even going to consider Linux as their OS until there's a good selection of games for it.
It alkso needs new games, not 12 month old crap like what is being touted here.
Neither game is crap, and only one of them is as old as you say. Tribes 2 has only been out for Windows for what, 1-2 weeks, tops?
It`s acually very simple:
.NET vision.
Forget products
Forget distributions
Forget boxed games on the shelves
This is what will happen:
You donwload the installer of your favourite game, install the thing on your fancy OS of choice, start it up, enter your VISA/Mastercard number, and wait a few seconds for the game to contact servers. Once the necessay stuff is donwloaded, you can play. When you`re done, the game erases everything except savegames.
This will work, but only when net congestion ramps down and everybody can say broadband 5 times in a sentence. Essentially it`s SUNs EJB or MSs
There is just no way people are going to survive on freeware, shareware, or a business model that sells products in the strores to a market that doesn`t really want to buy. See red-hat, breaking even, fnially charging money for it`s agent service. That stuff works, but only because they target the right people (companies) in the right way (easy & clean).
With great power comes great electricity bills.
I got Descent 3, Heretic II, Soldier of Fortune, Quake III Arena, Heavy Gear II and Heroes of Might and Magic III this week (six games) for less than $70.00 after shipping!
And they were fast to ship, too!
Long live Loki and Loki games! They're identical to the Windows versions on my GeForce2 under XFree86 4.0.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
You can get a developer's license of the engine for cheap ($100 and some publishing restrictions)
If this game is successful, and many people playtest the engine and submit bug reports and the folks at Tribes2 keep on top of it, you might see a whole slew of mods that may rival Half-Life's in terms of quality, only this time on the Linux desktop. It'll be a real shot in the arm for linux game development to have this stuff available at large, if it catches on.
There are some publishing restrictions on the license that you'll probably want to check out if you think this is the way you want to go, but if it'll bring over any programmers from the Windows ballpark, or at least prepare Windows game programmers to work with a game engine that has success on the Linux platform, that increases the chance that we'll get more and better games.
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Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Why do Linux people continue with the fantasy that their operating system is anything other than a tool for elitist, arrogant techies (nost of whom long for the days when computers were hard to use, and resent Microsoft for making computers easy for the man in the street).
First of all: take a deep breath. Relax.
I don't think Loki's (or anyone else's) intention is to make Linux a killer gaming platform. I think they're trying to make a few bucks selling games to Linux users.
I am a Linux user. I use Linux (and other Unix flavors) exclusively. I do so not because of arrogance or a love of things complicated, but because for what I do, it works very well. Sure - occasionally I need to access a Windows application, but I do that through Citrix, or VMware. The other 99% of the time, when I'm irc'ing, web browsing, playing mp3's, playing games, administrating servers, writing documentation, or just screwing around, Windows is a hinderance to my style of computing.
I am a member of the market that Loki is targetting. If they create a new market at the same time - great! That would be awesome. If not, there are still (in theory) enough users like me to support their development costs (and take home a nice piece of change). My $0.02.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
Am I the only one that is not necessarily pleased by this whole "games for Linux" phenomenon? In my opinion, news like this actually hurts Linux, for at least a couple of reasons:
1) These games are old. Sorry, but Alpha Centauri? Look, you don't need to convince me it was a great game, but the key word there is "was!" When people on the street see news like this, they'll say "Hmm, so this Linux OS is just now getting this game? It must really be behind the times!"
2) To promote Linux as a gaming platform is to promote it as a "toy OS." Yes, I'm aware that Windows is heavily promoted as a gaming platform, but how many technically-savvy people would consider it anything less than a toy OS? Windows at least has the strength of having the "heavyweight" office automation package. If the average guy on the street asks what software is available for Linux, what do you say? "Quake III and Emacs?" We can't have the only high-visibility software for Linux be game software, because then Linux becomes a toy OS.
I think we would do well to avoid having these two misconceptions forced upon Linux. Linux already suffers from the perception of being an operating system that is targeted primarily at political leftists; it would be a shame if we had to add on two more ridiculous and hateful suggestions. I, like most Slashdot readers, love Linux. I know that "Linux is yesterday's technology" is bullshit. I know that "Linux is a toy OS is bullshit." So let's not encourage anything that would lead people to think otherwise, mmmkay?
Seriously, I haven't been holding my breath for commercial gaming companies to port to Linux. There are some nice Linux games out there, and I'd much rather see the tradition of open source games continue. The classic UNIX games (rogue, etc.) are great, and they are great because lots of people contributed. I think the gameplay is still better than in most of the commercial games. Let's bring back that tradition.