Posted by
michael
on from the for-masochists-only dept.
marmoset writes: "Apple has released a new Darwin (the open source foundation of Mac OS X) snapshot. The new version is 1.3.1, which brings the Darwin packages up to the level released on the Mac OS X CD. The big news this time? There are both
PPC and x86 disk images available."
Every time someone mentions the possibility of OS X for x86, everyone says "APPLE'S A HARDWARE COMPANY" and this would be the worst thing for them because they rely primarily on hardware sales, etc.
But if they released OS X for PCs...
(1) They could STILL sell the apple hardware. Some people might defect to cheaper hardware, but c'mon, Apple designs hardware like nobody's business, both in terms of form and feature-set, and I love the PPC platform. I'd continue to buy it.
(2) I think there's a company out there that makes a ton of money selling an operating system for x86, though the name escapes me. And they make plenty of $.
So.. apple releases OS X for x86 and becomes a major software company as WELL as a hardware company. The software side of the company alone has already been proven to be viable as a money-maker, so where's the problem?
W
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-- -------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
They'ed have to release thier OS ahead of any available apps... Meaning it would flounder. No one's going to pay their developers to port applcations to an unreleased platform, and Apple would lose out big time by releasing OS X on intel without any apps. Look at how "successful" Be's been - releasing a cool OS with very little app support.
Re:"Open Source Foundation"
by
q[alex]
·
· Score: 4
From what I've been able to gather from the FAQ and other stuff, you get:
a mach kernel
a bsd subsystem - regularly synched with freebsd (libraries, object interfaces, etc) and netbsd (some user commands)
and that's about it. you can run x-windows on it (which isn't all that easy to do on OS X), or whatever you want.
the directory structure isn't all that important (to me, anyways)... what is important is that you're getting an OS that's binary compatible with Mac OS X (except for the carbon and cocoa toolkits, Apple's GUI frameworks), and also happens to be very close to a FreeBSD reference platform. Pretty damn cool.
-- I am the king... of No Pants! www.penny-arcade.com
Re:"Open Source Foundation"
by
nphinit
·
· Score: 4
It's a bare-bones BSD-like OS. If you want XFree and goodies like that, you need to download them yourself.
Ok, so why use Darwin at all?
1.) It's *painless* to install on a Mac. Absolutely painless.
2.) It's small and lean.
3.) An Apple-branded opensource BSD variant? Count me in!;)
Re:How long before GNU/Darwin?
by
ddstreet
·
· Score: 4
No, sorry, GNU/Hurd uses the Mach kernel; it would be GNU/Darwin (not GNU/Mach).
'Hurd' refers to the (userspace) device drivers, as does 'Darwin'. Both use the Mach microkernel.
You need to understand the difference between a monolithic kernel and micro-kernel to see the difference between Hurd and Mach (or Darwin and Mach).
A monolithic kernel (like Linux) has all operations and device drivers in-kernel; they all run in kernel mode (ring 0 on x86).
A microkernel (like Mach) only has the basic operations, but doesn't do everything you need. You need userspace 'server processes' which complete the kernel and run in userspace (ring 2 on x86). Thus, you have GNU's Hurd (play on words, it's a 'herd' of server processes) and Apple's Darwin.
First - Windows Media Services is a great way to go if you want to continue Microsoft's hegemony on the desktop. Competition is good.
Second - Last I heard, Real was charging $2,000+ for Real Server 8. That may be cheap to you, but it isn't to me.
Third - Darwin was not written for the Macinosh, it was built on BSD and was never intended to be used solely on PowerPC hardware.
Fourth - If you're down on apps that are configured through text files, perhaps you're not really very familiar with this thing called UNIX, which happens to use a text files all over the place for configuration. Ever heard of Apache?
Fifth - Speaking of web server platforms running on the Mac, maybe you've heard of Apache, WebTen, WebStar...
Sixth - "free with the purchase of Windows 2000" says it all.
Mac OS X was also updated. Up to 4L13 (10.0.1). This is the official apple sanctioned release version. Check out macnn for tips if you installed an earlier, developer only build (4l5?)
Get it by running apple software update, letting it update your software update application, run it again (to get 10.0.1), reboot, and run it again (to get updated epson printer drivers) if you want.
Have fun...
From Apple:
Update Now: Use the Software Update feature in your System Preferences to get the latest Mac OS X software. Improvements including better support for 3rd party USB devices, Classic compatibility and overall application stability as well as support for the popular open source Secure Shell service. For Japanese users, an update to the Epson printer drivers is also available.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm stunned nobody else responded to this by pointing to the GNU-Darwin Project homepage. So here it is.
No, this isn't a joke.
Nice try, kids. Look here if you want the release info.
Send your friends messages of love at fuck-you.org
Every time someone mentions the possibility of OS X for x86, everyone says "APPLE'S A HARDWARE COMPANY" and this would be the worst thing for them because they rely primarily on hardware sales, etc.
But if they released OS X for PCs...
(1) They could STILL sell the apple hardware. Some people might defect to cheaper hardware, but c'mon, Apple designs hardware like nobody's business, both in terms of form and feature-set, and I love the PPC platform. I'd continue to buy it.
(2) I think there's a company out there that makes a ton of money selling an operating system for x86, though the name escapes me. And they make plenty of $.
So.. apple releases OS X for x86 and becomes a major software company as WELL as a hardware company. The software side of the company alone has already been proven to be viable as a money-maker, so where's the problem?
W
-------------------
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
They'ed have to release thier OS ahead of any available apps... Meaning it would flounder. No one's going to pay their developers to port applcations to an unreleased platform, and Apple would lose out big time by releasing OS X on intel without any apps. Look at how "successful" Be's been - releasing a cool OS with very little app support.
From what I've been able to gather from the FAQ and other stuff, you get:
a mach kernel
a bsd subsystem - regularly synched with freebsd (libraries, object interfaces, etc) and netbsd (some user commands)
and that's about it. you can run x-windows on it (which isn't all that easy to do on OS X), or whatever you want.
the directory structure isn't all that important (to me, anyways)... what is important is that you're getting an OS that's binary compatible with Mac OS X (except for the carbon and cocoa toolkits, Apple's GUI frameworks), and also happens to be very close to a FreeBSD reference platform. Pretty damn cool.
I am the king... of No Pants! www.penny-arcade.com
It's a bare-bones BSD-like OS. If you want XFree and goodies like that, you need to download them yourself.
Ok, so why use Darwin at all?
1.) It's *painless* to install on a Mac. Absolutely painless.
2.) It's small and lean.
3.) An Apple-branded opensource BSD variant? Count me in!
No, sorry, GNU/Hurd uses the Mach kernel; it would be GNU/Darwin (not GNU/Mach).
'Hurd' refers to the (userspace) device drivers, as does 'Darwin'. Both use the Mach microkernel.
You need to understand the difference between a monolithic kernel and micro-kernel to see the difference between Hurd and Mach (or Darwin and Mach).
A monolithic kernel (like Linux) has all operations and device drivers in-kernel; they all run in kernel mode (ring 0 on x86).
A microkernel (like Mach) only has the basic operations, but doesn't do everything you need. You need userspace 'server processes' which complete the kernel and run in userspace (ring 2 on x86). Thus, you have GNU's Hurd (play on words, it's a 'herd' of server processes) and Apple's Darwin.
But they BOTH use the Mach microkernel.
See history of FSF and GNU (scroll down to 'The GNU Hurd") for a better explanation.
Second - Last I heard, Real was charging $2,000+ for Real Server 8. That may be cheap to you, but it isn't to me.
Third - Darwin was not written for the Macinosh, it was built on BSD and was never intended to be used solely on PowerPC hardware.
Fourth - If you're down on apps that are configured through text files, perhaps you're not really very familiar with this thing called UNIX, which happens to use a text files all over the place for configuration. Ever heard of Apache?
Fifth - Speaking of web server platforms running on the Mac, maybe you've heard of Apache, WebTen, WebStar...
Sixth - "free with the purchase of Windows 2000" says it all.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Mac OS X was also updated. Up to 4L13 (10.0.1). This is the official apple sanctioned release version. Check out macnn for tips if you installed an earlier, developer only build (4l5?)
Get it by running apple software update, letting it update your software update application, run it again (to get 10.0.1), reboot, and run it again (to get updated epson printer drivers) if you want.
Have fun...
From Apple:
Update Now: Use the Software Update feature in your System Preferences to get the latest Mac OS X software. Improvements including better support for 3rd party USB devices, Classic compatibility and overall application stability as well as support for the popular open source Secure Shell service. For Japanese users, an update to the Epson printer drivers is also available.
-ETF EOM