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Cryonics "Noah's Ark"
Baldrson writes: "The New York Times reports that architect Stephen Valentine has been commissioned to build a $180 million cryonics "Noah's Ark" theme park and hospice. The purpose will be the preservation, and amusement, of all manner of biological samples, including humans. Among the supporting groups is the nonprofit Stasis Foundation which has been involved in bail-outs of cryonics companies (euphemism for cryonics companies in necrosis). This announcement is particularly timely given this weekend's Foresight Institute Senior Associate Gathering. Biblical themes may evoke religious contributions from aging boomers to push the envelope, but never underestimate the passion of the dog breeders." The vision that comes to mind is Michael Jackson's head in a glass jar.
in a capitalist society.
Let's assume the technical problems are solved..
As long as the service of being cryogenically preserved is a commodity, unsubsidized by the government or most insurance, the rich, prominent, and powerful will be the people self selected to undergo the service.
These people will also set up bank trusts, etc. to preserve their interests as they lie dead and frozen. They will influence politics to preserve their property rights as they lie dead, concentrating more and more property and political control in the hands of the dead and their trustees.
I can even imagine the trusteeships being battered back and forth in the marketplace, as the companies that control the wealth of the dead compete with each other.
All in all a fucked up scenario. What do people think about existing or prospective national and international law to deal with this problem? Mind you, I'm partial to the belief that either we have to live in a differnet economic system, or we must make cryogenics a state supported medical service available to all - decided by lot, democratic selection, condition of health or some other scientific standard.
Goat sex free since 2001
"Theme park and hospice," there's a phrase you don't find in many business plans.
Anyhow, if this is a Noah's Ark of Cryonics, will the storage areas be measured in Ice Cubits?
If you don't want my koalas, baby, don't shake my eucalyptus tree.
I think this whole notion of cryonics is a wonderfully optimistic and exciting prospect, but I am extremely skeptical as to whether any of the current practices or organizations can last in the long-run, if only from a pure business perspective.
Look at it this way: In order to be frozen, one must be involved in one of these organizations, as the article discusses. These organizations involve resources to maintain themselves and their "members".
The NYT article mentions that Timeship will need to have be "energy self-reliance (solar or geothermal), as well as resistance to natural and man-made disasters like earthquakes and terrorist bombings."
But no mention is made of *business* self-reliance.
How long is it going to be until our medical knowledge progresses to the point where we can un-freeze the people currently frozen and "fix" them? 50 years? 100 years? 300 years?
And how many technology businesses do you know that have been around for that long?
Unfortunately, unlike a cemetary, a cryonics business involves continuous financial need and maintainance, as well as personnel training (who's going to un-freeze all of these people/things?).
Even with organizations like Stasis (non-profit that's supposed to solve this problem), who's to say that they're going to be around in 300 years? One of the guys in the Cryocare annual even says:
"Paul said he simply disagreed that a non-profit company is more secure than a for-profit company."
I'm a skeptic.
Any thoughts on this?
nlh
Ferrari and other exotic car rentals in New York
The entirety of Western civilisation is based on the need to build new technologies and exploit the rest of the world for resources, both mineral and intellectual, to make this as rapid as possible.
Obviously you are a troll, but (for example) how has the western world exploited the non-western world in the computer industry? Do semiconductor companies hire sea pirates to steal all of the valuable sand on the shores of Africa and Asia?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but how the hell can a bull and cow have human rights? I don't think cows can make moral claims against human beings, so how is it they have human rights?
Please do so now - you'll have escaped the bleakness you see around you & save the rest of us the annoyance of your sophmoric bs.
No, I'm not kidding. If you're not medically depressed but truly believe your posting then either achieve something or get out of the way.
For those tempted to mod this as a troll - go read the original posting. While my response is harsh it's not unreasonable.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Clearly Archie hasn't been around animals much. Homosexual sexplay is common among animals. So is homosexual pair-bonding. Indeed the higher one gets in social sophistication the more likelyhood of homosexual critters. Elephants, dolphins, geese, dogs, all have well documented examples of homosexual members.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
General laws that Wal-Mart has broken:
who's the bigger moron Ann Marie or the stupid moderators that moded this garbage up?
They could put Walt Disney on display, giving a whole new meaning to a "Disney theme park."
We are a virus, feeding of off those greater than we are, and our time will surely pass.
Who let the troll out?
OK, you've been watching "the Matrix" far too often and were taking the things said in it far too seriously. You must remember, my friend, that although "the Matrix" is an immensely enjoyable movie, it is still a work of fiction, and as science fiction it sucks donkey's ass.
First off, let me enlighten you -- agent Smith was dead wrong when he said that "every living creature lives in an equilibrium with the surrounding ecosystem". "Buzz" -- wrong! Every living being on Earth is preoccupied with survival and will take advantage of any means possible in order not to die and procreate as many times as possible. The only reason there is equilibrium is because for every species out there, another species exists which takes advantage of it, and in many places you see life-death cycles. I witnessed it myself when I was working on far North of Russia: first year there were few lemmings around. Next year there were more lemmings around. Third year there were HORDES of lemmings around -- they were everywhere, you could hardly walk on tundra without stepping on them. However, with the increase of lemming population, there was a steady increase of predator birds who prey on lemmings as their primary food source. Then there was a massive epizootic (epidemic) among lemmings which wiped nearly half of them all, and the rest of lemming population was severely reduced by predators. Next year, there were hardly any lemmings, and tons of predators, who failed to procreate since they couldn't feed their young, and the cycle started again.
So, you see -- every living creature will procreate given a chance. You don't seriously think that some lemming conciously tries to "live in equilibrium" with the rest of the ecosystem? Do you think he sits in his hole in the ground and thinks "well, hell, there just are too many of us around -- I think I'll jerk off for the rest of the summer for the good of the ecosystem"? Right.
The human population has always been regulated using the same approach -- epidemics, wars, famines, but with the advent of technology things have changed. We have been able to choke off most epidemics by using vaccination and by washing hands; we are able to feed ourselves mostly (famines are now reduced to non-Western countries). This allowed us to procreate like crazy, but the regulatory measures of Nature will catch up with us some time in the future. We only need a couple of years of bad crops to re-introduce famine back into the Western world, or a non-curable mutated virus a-la plague or aids, but which would spread by air, to wipe out half the population.
So, you see, that is why we need to introduce such things as birth control, and the sooner the better. Having more than two children should be discouraged and having just one child should be rewarded (not the other way around). Not having many children surely beats seeing them starve and die of hunger, if you ask me.
About the "here and now" -- that's bullcrap. Truly great way to introduce stagnation and degeneration. Humankind just needs to learn how to achieve technological progress without undermining the well-being of our species, but I truly doubt that this will be possible without a harsh worldwide survival lesson caused by overpopulation. Until then, I'm afraid we won't do a thing.
I know, I know -- mod me down for being off-topic and feeding the trolls, but I'm just sick and tired of people throwing up their arms and moaning about "raping the planet". Every species does this, not just us. The only difference is that we have brains and should use them to see how this will come around and kick us in the arse before too long.
If you open yourself to the foo, You and foo become one.
No, no, michael. The purpose is to preserver biological samples, not plastic. They'll have plenty of that in the future.
Secondly, troll. I almost have to suspect that there is an anti-technologist or two that have targetted /. specifically. There is absolutely no reason for a resolute anti-technologist to participate in /. if not specifically to upset the apple cart. Using /. to *educate* people about anti-technology approaches is ironic. And pretty much brain-dead stupid.
Thirdly, flamebait. There is no purpose to addressing western civilization with an anti-civilization rant, specifically the way you did it, if not to raise ire.
Fourthly, overrated. If this were not a Sunday I doubt there would be anything but insightful, informative posts modded up to five. If this were honest moderation I would beg people to read a little more carefully, especially with regard to on-topic-ness.
I have an honest response to you if you would deserve it, but I've already wasted my time enough...
Several years ago--at least three--some scientists replaced the blood in a dog(?) with artificial blood and froze it for hours(?), and were able to successfully revive it.
All the (?) because I can hardly remember the story. Does anyone recall? I believe I read it in Scientific American. Please enlighten us if anyone remembers this story, and what the real details are.
My memory has always been like a seive...
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, *The Annals*
We've all gotten used to seeing Nixon's head in a jar, so it's gained some semblance of normalcy. [Futurama!!!] But Michael Jackson's head in a jar is just too frightening...
:-o
In fact, it's easier to picture Michael Jackson's head between a young boy's legs.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, *The Annals*
"The vision that comes to mind is Michael Jackson's head in a glass jar."
That should allready be possible using the parts that came off in the last few years......
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
The Stone Age people of the Andaman islands are far more advanced spiritually and philosophically than we are, in our material lust for hamburgers.
Snort. I'm sure that "spiritual advancement" keeps their bellies full.
We are a virus, feeding of off those greater than we are
Yeah... the meek shall inherit the Earth -- when we're done with it.
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Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
But Noah made the same mistake too much of human society makes today: the presumption that all living creatures are heterosexual and desire nothing but heterosexual sex.
Noah, assuming he existed, didn't give a flying fuck what "kind of sex" animals "preferred," because his goal was not a floating fucking orgy, but survival of those species. Actually, even that probably wasn't his motivation so much as GOD saying "get the damn animals in the boat before I drown you, too, and make sure you get mating pairs." And regardless of what they "prefer," two males cannot produce offspring.
It may have been Divine conscription, but there's no reason to violate individual autonomy like that.
Shut up. Given that the Noah story has the Divine, All-Mighty Creator and Destroyer of Worlds telling Noah to gather two of each animal, I suppose you, as Anne "Noah" Marie, would tell him to get bent, because animals got rights, and like sticking things in their bungholes.
Mo. Ron.
Wirelesslaptop asked, "who's the bigger moron Ann Marie or the stupid moderators that moded this garbage up?".
Hard to tell. Morons seem to run in packs.
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Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
What about Leonardo DiCaprio's head in a jar? Good for launching ships. :)
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Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Well, at least this might make spending a year dead for tax purposes feasible.
Let's go, Mr. Desiato.
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Lloyd's of London is another lovely old for-profit institution, 313 years old if this information is to be believed. From the history page on their website:
WWJD for a Klondike Bar?
The ice-crystals created by freezing water within cells will cause more damage than can be expected to be repaired. After a certain point, its just unrepairable. Even with multiple miracles in nanotech and medicine, the best you can hope for is coming out with a 40 something IQ.
Rather I'm referring to many well documented studies of animals in the wild or in domesticated situations but not under undue stress. There a percentage comperable to that in the human population perform engage in the same pair-bonding activities as their heterosexual counterparts of their species.
In short two bulls or two cows or two cygnets pair up the same as a mixed-gender couple would with every indication of it being a part of the natural variation within their species.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
I always thought that show was prophetic.
And now, a word from Matt Groening?s head in a jar . . .
-Peter
I think it's in otherwise forgettable "The Artificial Kid" by Bruce Sterling that people who go into cryonics has to pay everything they own. So when they are revived, they are poor. If they want to be frozen again, they have to get rich again.
Or something.
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Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu