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First RFC1149 Implementation

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the don't-try-this-at-home dept.

Crossfire writes: "IP over Avian Carrier (RFC1149) was just a joke, right? It would seem not. The Bergen Linux Users Group has made it a reality! It would also seem that Alan Cox was present for the event too, given by the photos on the page." This is just excellent. Kudos to everyone involved.

35 of 143 comments (clear)

  1. Did they... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5

    drop any 'packets'?

  2. Would a Denial of Service attack ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5

    ... consist of a 12-gauge shotgun and some birdshot ? Would an IP hijacking session be achieved by using an Irish setter to locate the dropped avian carrier ? I'll stop now :)

    1. Re:Would a Denial of Service attack ... by actiondan · · Score: 5

      A DOS attack could also involve taking over 1000 pigeon lofts and sending 10,000 pigeons to an unfortuante recipient.

  3. Re:Sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5

    african or european?

  4. Re:Limitations by JanneM · · Score: 5

    Broadcast support isn't a problem; just have a whole bunch of pigeons pull a large packet banner for everybody on the ground to see...

    /Janne

    --
    Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
  5. Innovation by ch-chuck · · Score: 5

    I head Msft already has an "improved" version in the works involving predatory hawks - your data doesn't get thru any faster but the UI is more attractive and it just naturally interfers with pidgeon carriers, causing packet droppings.

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  6. Alan Cox by Eivind · · Score: 5
    Did indeed honour us by being present. I just hope he had as much fun as we did. This all took place saturday. On Thursday there was a lecture by Alan, and also he had the opportunity to go feed the penguins in the local aquarium.

    Pictures fro mthe last event are available here

  7. Re:Will Microsoft use falcons ... by sharkey · · Score: 5
    No. Falcons are lean and fast. They are also efficient hunters. Microsoft will be using turkeys bred for the US holiday of Thanksgiving, for several reasons:
    • The birds name is synonymous with the usual quality of MS products.
    • They are so bloated with overfeeding (overfeaturing) that they can't stand up without breaking their own legs.
    • They make a big stink, and a lot of noise, but aren't really effective at anything but dying.
    The process will be simple: MS will purchase several of the air cannons used to launch frozen poultry at aircraft windows to test for breaking point, and use those to launch the MS TIEE (Turkey Internet Enhanced Enabler) stack at any and all CPIP packets which get too close to Redmond, or any other MS campuses. And probably any QWest property now as well.

    --
    --

    --
    "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  8. Spam? by sharkey · · Score: 5

    So was that spam that hit my windscreen on the way to work today? I'm NOT gonna "packet-sniff" it to see if was a commercial ad or not, but it sure as hell was unsolicited.

    --

    --

    --
    "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  9. Re:Bandwidth is not the problem, but latency is... by uncleFester · · Score: 5
    Latency (time to deliver the data to destination) might be a problem though...

    Not to mention out-of-order packet reception. I think we could have a rather large issue hunting for pigeon #35431 in the Great Flock. And of course, the risk of packet loss is much higher. Farmers out in their fields with shotguns have a lot lower chance of disrupting your ethernet connection but could take out pigeons #234, 54245 and 6644 with one good blast of 00 buck. Just imagine of the retransmission requests.. *shudder*

    Suckey as it is, I'll stick with my csma/cd, thank you. Though it doesn't have that soothing 'coo.' :)

    --
    -'fester
  10. On closer observation... by ASCIIMan · · Score: 5
    This actually appears to be the first non-compliant usage of RFC 1149. RFC 1149 specifically indicates that "A band of duct tape is used to secure the datagram's edges." In this implementation, it is clear from the photographic evidence that duct tape was not used in the test.

    I propose that once testing has been completed on a fully standards complient version of RFC 1149, testing on the implementation of RFC 2549, or "IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of Service", should begin. This extention of RFC 1149 adds many important features, such as quality of service, security, and traffic shaping.

    1. Re:On closer observation... by IAmHansemann · · Score: 5
      This actually appears to be the first non-compliant usage of RFC 1149. RFC 1149 specifically indicates that "A band of duct tape is used to secure the datagram's edges."

      Nope, you are wrong: the duct tape is only a informal suggestion. Otherwise the statement would be: "A band of duct tape MUST BE used to secure the datagram's edges"

      SCNR :-)

  11. Man-in-the-middle-with-a-big-net Attacks by Velox_SwiftFox · · Score: 5

    Worse, quantum encryption would be impossible, doe to the carrier's inability to fly in an entangled state.

  12. Re:Open Source by gazdean · · Score: 5

    He meant open sauce.

    Take a bird, open some sauce and
    then cook it.

    --
    "You can catch flies till the cows come home, but wasps are a totally different kettle of fish."
  13. Bandwidth is not the problem, but latency is... by EyesOfNostradamus · · Score: 5
    CPIP could allow for as high a bandwidth (amount of data sent in a given time) as you wish: just send an enormous number of pigeons at once! Latency (time to deliver the data to destination) might be a problem though: 2 hour ping times, as observed at the event.

    As the saying goes: there is no higher bandwidth link than a UPS truck fully loaded with DVDs...

    1. Re:Bandwidth is not the problem, but latency is... by EyesOfNostradamus · · Score: 5
      > Not to mention out-of-order packet reception. I think we could have a rather large issue hunting for pigeon #35431 in the Great Flock.

      TCP/IP is perfectly able to deal with packet loss and re-ordering, so no problem there. Of course, this might cause some performance drop, unless selective acknowledge (SACK) is used.

      > Farmers out in their fields with shotguns have a lot lower chance of disrupting your ethernet connection but could take out pigeons #234, 54245 and 6644 with one good blast of 00 buck.

      True enough. However, consider this: roadworkers have a lot lower chance of permanently stopping your pigeons from flying but could take out your spiffy new phiber optic link with an appropriately placed "dig" of their backhoe... And don't talk about backup connectivity: everybody knows that usually the backup fiber runs within the same duct as the primary.

    2. Re:Bandwidth is not the problem, but latency is... by mrericn · · Score: 5

      Actually,

      I think the quote is:

      "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum - Computer Networks

  14. These are not dropped packets... by EyesOfNostradamus · · Score: 5
    but rather audit trails. It's even documented in the RFC:

    Audit trails are automatically generated, and can often be found on logs and cable trays
  15. Re:Sorry... by AtrN · · Score: 5
    This is actually a serious point. In order to meet timeouts specified in numerous protocols (e.g, TCP) the birds need to travel pretty quickly, either that or your network radius is severly limited. I much prefer to think of large networks which gives us reason to modify the network media a bit. Afterall Ethernet is now running at a thousand times its original speed. Why not pigeons? With our increasing abilities in genetic manipulation (Mephisto, I hear you) this would make an excellent project.

    Another time related problem is the speed of attaching the datagrams to the pigeons and then reading them. We need pigeons with detachable legs so we can easily pop the data on and off of the transport mechanism (a bit like a physical implementation of mbufs, the pigeon being analogous to an Ethernet frame).

    We could try little rockets or shooting them out of cannons (reduces latency) but this can lead to excessive packet loss if you try to push the birds past their limits. Routing is also an issue, you've got to give them some initial aim otherwise all that energy is just wasted. Topological routing is now appearing which could come in handy for this but does anyone have a driver for a turret mounted pigeon cannon handy?

  16. Re:Mirror. by nick255 · · Score: 5

    > www.blug.linux.no should have both cpu and
    > bandwith that can withstand som slashdotting.
    Not if they are using CPIP!

  17. Ping Flood by zsazsa · · Score: 5

    I would imagine that a ping flood attack would look like something out of Hitchcock's The Birds ...
    (don't worry, not a goatse.cx link..)

    zsazsa

  18. Just imagine... by Darth+Turbogeek · · Score: 5

    A DOS attack of the Avian carrier. Clip their wings, perhaps?

    I also suspect CAT might cause a segment fault.

    --
    "Old Rallydrivers never die - they just fail to book in on time"
  19. Sorry... by smack_attack · · Score: 5

    What's the air speed velocity of an unladen packet?

    -if not me, someone else.

    ---

    --

    Hammer of Truth
  20. Open Source? by NullLogic · · Score: 5

    How secure is this, really? I mean, is the gene sequence of pidgeons freely available for download? If I find a design flaw in the pidgeon, who do I submit patches to?

  21. Potential security problem by davejhiggins · · Score: 5

    Does this mean anyone filtering packets using a Firewall could be prosecuted on charges of cruelty to animals? Dave

  22. That's not a packet Alan Cox is holding! by dstone · · Score: 5

    See for yourself...

    Pic here.

    "Hey Alan, stop bogarting. Pass it!"

  23. Limitations by egjertse · · Score: 5
    Really great! Now, there are a few points to CPIP that bothers me a little.
    • Packet loss - hunting season could cause major disruptions to services.
    • Lack of broadcast/multicast support
    • Limited packet size
    • Mandatory source-routing could be a problem (I always configure my Linux kernel to drop source routed packages)
    • Mating season could cause abnormal round trip delays
    On the positive side, packet collisions are history - unless someone implements CPIP in a LAN that is...
    --
    ^]:wq!^M
  24. Will Microsoft use falcons ... by MRossland · · Score: 5

    ... to eat the pigeons of other, smaller and open-source companies?

    1. Re:Will Microsoft use falcons ... by The+Smith · · Score: 5

      They will presumably find some method of extending the generic pigeon design to make it incompatible with everybody else's pigeons. To make a closed-source pigeon, they will castrate all of their pigeons (after taking a DNA sample) to ensure none of their 'trade secrets' are spread without a license to pigeons not under their control.

  25. Re:Buggy protocol by deebaine · · Score: 5
    Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol
    inet addr:10.0.3.2 P-t-P:10.0.3.1
    collisions:0
    RX bytes:88 (88.0 b) TX bytes:168 (168.0 b)

    You know, I never thought of packet collisions as really funny. Now, somehow it seems much more entertaining.

    -db
  26. Open Source by ConsumedByTV · · Score: 5

    One thing I really like about the open source movement is that never ceases to make me happy.

    This is a great example of community acting in a fun and open way.

    Not for greed, but because its fun.
    A sense of community that I don't see in the rest of my life (Where I live, where I work).
    It makes life worth living when you enjoy it.


    Are you on the Sfglj (SF-Goth EMail Junkies List) ?

    --


    "Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
  27. Faster than a 300 bps modem :-) by lushman · · Score: 5

    Well, maybe not, but anyway ...

  28. We need RFC1149.b... by SomeoneYouDontKnow · · Score: 5

    ...to accommodate penguins, since they can't fly. They can swim, but I don't think the paper and duct tape will hold up too well under water.

    --
    That light you see at the end of the tunnel might be from an oncoming train.
  29. The Pigeons vs Windows by madvid · · Score: 5

    A funny little anecdote: One of the last frames (i.e. pigeons) we released actually crashed into a neighbor's bathroom window, after which Alan Cox himself commented; "Oh no, windows causing problems again." - Just thought I'd share that. :)

    (BTW, I'm not officially a BLUG member, but was cordially invited by a friend of mine - thanks Karlmag! And hi mom!;)

  30. Upgrading to RFC1149 by McCarrum · · Score: 5
    I've tried to read webpages in some countries which would have been faster if they did use a pigeon. Sitting here in my office, I envision my message trying to be sent along an old goat track, on the back of the trusty village-owned three-legged billygoat.

    --
    McCarrum!

    --
    Robert Anton Wilson :: Rest in Slack