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Russians Offering More Space Tourism
mduell submitted an MSNBC story about a company in Russia offering more trips to space. No docking with the space station for these tourists tho. No word on price... instead of a week in Soyuz capsule, how about you give me half of the multi-million-dollar-fee, and you can stay at my place and I'll get you drunk. You'll feel like you're in zero Gs, but with a bigger room.
The problem with this is people would only complain even more. "Why are we spending government tax dollars subsidizing space flight so a bunch of rich tourists can get their jollies orbiting the earth when we have children starving to death down here?" No, commercial spaceflight would be the death of NASA. If that's how it is to be then so be it but I don't think we can have a government agency subsidizing this kind of thing. $20 million is a piss in the bucket of how much it costs to fund a trip into orbit.
I saw alot of talk about "corporate welfare" in the 80s and early 90s and I've always thought...what is corporate welfare.
You take Federal funding and give it to companies and what happens to it? It will go to wages for employees, money spend on R&D, money spent on suppliers, contractors, etc. If the company getting the "corporate welfare" pays dividends...Shareholders get some money...at the very least stock prices go up.
Now in the welfare system, money is doled out and there is little to no return on it. So I think corporate investment is a better term for contracts like this than, "corporate welfare".
That's my offtopic remark. Ontopic, I think that the Russians should do whatever they want with space tourists as long as they don't use the ISS for sleepovers...at this time. Once it's finished...have all the sleepovers we can up there.
Nope. South Dakota, although I have family in Kansas on both the English and Potawatomi fronts.
"tourists" jump out of airplanes with parachutes on their backs every day.
Skydiving is as safe as you want to make it, of course. There are probably some good outfits out there, and others that are either run by idiots, or accountants who would cut corners for an extra penny. People can, have, and will continue to die skydiving. It does not deter more from trying "something thrilling". Part of the thrill is because it IS dangerous.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
I mean, are meals included? What about booze? It would suck to pay that much money, and the food was bad. Or worse, it costs extra, and the prices are outrageous, and you can't exactly stop at McDonalds when you're travelling 17,000 mph.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
They could have sent the capsules up to Mir and let it be the first space hotel - albiet not as nice as the one in 2001.
I'd love to see that brochure:
Come stay in Mir(*) - for just $500,000 a night (minumum 6 night stay). See tons of space debris. Spacewalk (way) above the sandy beaches of the Rivera. Battle space fungi. Join the 100-mile high club.
(*) requires return trip purchase on our carrier - round trip ticket, $20million - first class upgrades not available.
Dennis Tito had training, but his training would not neccessarily have kept him alive in all situations. After all, the astronauts who did in the Apollo I fire were well trained, and so were the Crew of the 1986 Challenger flight that ended in disaster. Likewise, many cosmonauts have also died due to equipment failure.
The Challenger exploded because of a faulty O-ring, not because of the preparedness of any of the astronauts. According to Richard Feyman, NASA, for various political reasons habitually understated the risk of a catastrophic accident. These artificially low risk assessments prompted NASA to recruit a civilian teacher, and to launch various government officials into space.
Space travel in inherently dangerous, and it is likely that space tourists will die as a result.
...provided that the Soyuz runs "shared source" and bluescreens in the orbit. A small step for a man but a giant leap for mankind... ;-)
What's wrong with getting a few wackos with millions of dollars of spare change to fund all this research though? .. IMHO, NASA screwed up by not grabbing this guy Tito's money in the first place and putting it into a project like the ISS that DOES cost a helluver lot of money to do.
;) .. Such an argument is/was used against opening up the internet AFAIR.
It's how stately homes are funded for upkeep, you get visitors and they pay an entrance fee. Same principle, different scale.
There's nothing dubious about these places having tourism. People tend to be interested to see what goes on over the fence. Plus, you're not saying that space should only be for the academics are you?
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Delphis
Delphis
And the added bonus is only the richest 0.01% of the US would be able to even afford such a vaction.
Hi all I am establishing a charity fund to help make a wish come sure and get a RANDOMLY selected individual on one of these flights. Please goto : http://www.getredsmokerichandinspace.com to learn more about how you can help toward this charity! Save the starving college students!
Ouch...
Nice to see all that money I pay in taxes is being blown on what amounts to corporate welfare. Eventually we should see some glimmer of these technologies leak into the public sector, but until then, it is in my opinion a wasted effort.
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
if you can pay for the trip yopu don't need it
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Maybe they'd be willing to negotiate trip in exchange for a couple of live reports about it on Geeks In Space. Yeah, they'd probably still want a few buck, but it might bring the price down to the budget of geeks. And of course, without a doubt, Slashdot would get slashdotted.
The net will not be what we demand, but what we make it. Build it well.
Sending tourists seems like it's just asking for trouble. And i thought skydiving made it hard to get life insurance...
I belive David Bowie put it best: "Ground control to Major Tom..."
I am !amused.
Just like what they did to Dennis.
from the whats-the-airport-code-for-space dept.
$$$
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Perhaps the millionaires should get together and finance a space hotel of sorts. It would allow them to capitalize on the public's interest in space travel.
Of course, the Russian government may not be able to pay for next year's VODKA rations if they can't gouge wealthy american's who want into space.
The List of Grievances with Slashdot.
I can see it now:
Hello folks I'm Rodger Johnson of CBS news, and I'm here with the winner of this month's "Space Lottery" 59 year old Paul Thompson. Paul is a retired mailman, and knows absolutly nothing about about g-forces, the effects of low gravity on the body, and he has no skills that may be useful on a space flight. Paul retired early after his second heart attack, but likes rollercosters, so he doesn't think the acceleration will bother him much. He is a bit concerned that the diet on the shuttle and ISS can be tailored to his diabetic needs. So here he is folks: America's next Astronaut!
Seriously, at least with the way the Russians are doing it now they can screen people ahead of time. In a lottery sitiuation you'd have to screen people before they bought their tickets. Who's going to submit to a full medical screen and background check before they buy a lottery ticket? The other option is just to keep drawing till you get someone medically qualifed, but what do you tell the people who's numbers were drawn, but couldn't go? Sorry, here's your dollar back? They'd be buried under an avalanche of lawsuits. I'm all for "space for the masses" but the fact is that under current conditions many people CAN'T go to space. to promise an "open lottery" would just be to invite disappointment and problems.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
Precisely; it's a liability problem. Now that Dennis Tito has gone and come back, space tourism is inevitable (though it will be a long time until it's cheap). The Russians want to sell rides, let them. They need the money, and thrill seekers will get their thrills if they want them.
One can only hope the Russians do something useful with it, though...
/Brian
If you want to make the comparison of manned spaceflight to the internet, then you would have to consider the current state of the art in manned spaceflight to be equivelant to the early days of ARPANET. In which case, of course it makes sense to restrict access to it. It's a relatively untested, unreliable technology that hasn't even reached its infancy. It costs tens of millions of dollars per person, and takes the efforts of thousands of skilled engineers to make it work. It should be done only when there's no other way to get the job done, which certainly debars the public, at least for now.
BTW - I did read the article. If you read my post, perhapse you would have realized that I mentioned the fact that it wasn't on the ISS. In my opinion, the fact that it's a purely Russian effort stengthens, not weakens, my argument. The Russians have fewer resources to squander.
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In spite of the suggestions and all the tests that I have made, I have not cavato a spider from the hole.
However, the ISS is a research station. They're supposed to be doing science and enginering stuff up there that will [someday, I hope] benifit all of us stuck down here in the gravity well. It somehow doesen't sit right with me that the Russians, however cash strapped they are, let a guy pay his way onto the ISS, and are planning to expand this (even if there won't be any more actual ISS visits). It would be like if CERN or Fermilab turned over their accelerators to someone who's willing to pay tons of cash to blow the hell out of a banana.
The ISS has been sucking huge amounts of money out of space programs that could do better science. For the price of the ISS, you could do hundreds of unmanned missions to Mars, and they would yeild mountains of real scientific data that would truely enhance our knowledge about, well, everything. If the ISS can't produce the same bang for the buck, it shouldn't be funded.
Space turism for the ultra-rich on or off the ISS strongly suggests that the scientific value of these manned missions is dubious.
Again, don't get me wrong here - I want to have humans in space, and if I could, I would jump at the chance to be one of them. But research money is a limited resource, and untill we have the technologies to do it economically, we should be spending out cash on either pure science or developing those technologies.
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In spite of the suggestions and all the tests that I have made, I have not cavato a spider from the hole.
I agree with you on this. It's a shame NASA isn't doing something along these lines. I'm glad that someone is finally doing commercial spaceflight. It's been a long time coming and personally, I think it's over due.
plop
Letting non scientists spend time on Alpha just because they can pay is a really, really bad idea.
Some nut with cash and a cause is gonna be remembered for a long, long time.
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What happened when the US sent a civilian in space?
One word: Challenger
It may not seem like a problem now-a-days, but those that were responsible still are extracautious...
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
You can't sue the Russians except in Russian court - and they doubtless will think that was in bad faith of the waivers they have to sign...
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
After all, it's strictly a question of filling an existing demand, namely doing something that very few people are able to do. The fact that customers that want to fullfill this demand, are being asked exorbitant amounts of money isn't even relevant. Half of the attraction of going into space is the fact that it shows that you have a gazillion to spend on the little luxuries of life.
I'd say, let's hope there will be a lot of companies to offer this service. And let's hope they even make a profit. They'll pay taxes (which is actually money taken of their rich clients) and, consequently, I'll pay less taxes.
You gotta love'em.
I have a photographic memory for numbers. I know almost a hundred of them.
Has anyone ever been drunk in space? That sounds like fun.. assuming you can hold your liquor.
wishus
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My belief why NASA tends to very opposed to this type of thing is that they are scared sh*tless that they are going to lose funding because of it. All it's going to take is someone to get the bright idea that instead of space researched paid by taxes, that it could completely survive on the private sector. Think if Congress started siphoning off the budget money, and say "if you want some more money throw up some tourists, to fund your next deep space satelite". Funding from the next solar panel, will come from the 5 tourists that have to be shot up, because Congress decided they didn't want to give us any more money.
I don't think NASA is all that concerned about someone going through the proper training, etc. and being a safety hazard, but more about what this could truely mean, to all those nickles and dimes they've had to beg and plead for. Could cause lots of problems on actually getting true research done.
Maybe an accident would set tourism back for a decade, but without people trying things like this, space tourism wouldn't happen for at least a decade anyway.
I agree with both of you. I feel that NASA might be better off putting a little time into developing a program to safely and comfortably (withing reason) send tourists into space. NASA would also benefit from teaming up with other companies in some ventures. I know everyone here thinks corporations are bad, but they're the ones with the money and I'd like to see some of that going into helping the space program.
You also have to remember that if NASA does decide to start sending tourists into space, then one accident could mean the end of our space program. Not that accidents in NASA are a common occurance, but one mistake and the public would go crazy to the point of forcing the government to put an end to NASA. (I can see the slashdot posts now "WHAT IDIOT HAD TO IDEA TO SEND TOURISTS INTO SPACE?!?! Click here for goatsex")...
Anyway, some stuff to think about...
Another beautifully uninformed slashdot rant.
Without the Shuttle, how would Americans get into space? With 40 year old technology, the way the Russians do? Remember that we will never know how much Mir or the Soyuz programs cost, because it was swallowed in the communist regime. Who knows, compared to Mir, ISS might be a bargain!
Furthermore, the US cares a whole lot about little things like, i dunno, SAFETY that the Russians don't give a damn about. You think I am overstating things, read "Dragonfly" by Bryan Burrough. NASA comes off as the bureaucratic mess that it probably is, but you'll think twice before claiming the Russians have a "sensible space policy."
But, it's easy to pick on NASA. After all, it is a government agency. But before you rant about NASA inefficiency, think about your own code. What happens if there's a bug? Well, you fix it. And send out a patch. ISS has THREE MILLION lines of code, and any bug could be a complete disaster. So ALL of that code has to be checked and rechecked.
In sum, working in space is HARD. Many times harder than any environment on the ground, even
a corporate cubicle. If you ever get the chance to go into space, you will be relying on all the "whooping it up" that NASA is doing. Or you will be flying in a 40 year old Russian deathtrap. The choice is yours, but I hope you choose the deathtrap.
"Fifty million Americans can't be wrong," said Rep. Billy Tauzin. Gore - 50,999,897 Bush - 50,456,002
Prediction: They're going to shoot someone into space who's not prepared to be there, some sort of emergency happens and the tourist, who is unprepared for anything to go wrong, dies. And just because someone ran an unsafe space toruism operation, people will get the impression that safe space tourism isn't possible, and that will set the whole thing back years.
Bleah. A reasonable level of safety for a space tourist is more than just taking someone's cash and cramming them in a Soyuz capsule.
Governments are supposed to set up conditions that allow for private markets. They are not supposed to be in the market themselves. That is unfair and leads to corruption. Not to mention lack of competition.
That's wonderful that Russia has a 13% flat tax (if true), but that doesn't justify the government monopolizing a business sector that should be entirely private.
Think intel, amd, ibm, sun, etc. Not energia and nasa.
I think we might be advocating a road frought with peril in pushing for tourism through NASA.
NASA was organized to provide for scientific exploration of space. It is a form of socialism to construct such an organization, but our society has determined that it is a trade-off worth making, as there has been little profitablity to be gained from early space exploration.
That seems to be changing.
It seems there are now possibilites for a profitable space program - and that should preclude government involvement. We have already seen first hand results of large socialist programs, and it is never good.
Ideally, we should see NASA's role slowly diminish in the coming decades, until it vanishes completely. I see nothing wrong with continuing ISS, but it should be in a completely scientific context.
The public would not be happy to provide vacations for a wealthy few in a tax-subsidized program.
There is a reason the Russian government doesn't mind charging space tourists - they are a socialist state. Let's not begin to follow their footsteps to socialism.
A company? A private company is offering this service? How many customers do they expect to have? Surely thare aren't that many people who have a spare $20 mil AND are willing to throw it into a single vacation... How do they epect to keep in business? I'd love to see the financial projections for this company... Amazing...
--CTH
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--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
Boy oh boy those commies are sharing space!
Whats next? Men on the moon?
The Lottery:
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
Hmm, If you could send a postcard back, it might go somthing like: Having a wonderfull time. Weather is err, nonexistant - Sun is Scorching by day, but the nights are a tad chilly - My room has a Sea view - all of them!. Havent been able to venture away from the hotel however, The hotel manager advises it is a bit hostile outside.
To get the elite of America (who else could afford it), into their clutches for several weeks of insidious commie brainwashing.
To gain an insight into such a communist mindset, I would recommend looking for an obscure, often suppressed documentary (with Frank Sinatra re-enacting the lead role) called The Manchurian Candidate. It clearly shows the odious depths the malevolent commies will stoop to in order to destroy this great nation of ours.
If the CIA can't stop this, I would hope the INS would isolate returning Americans for several weeks to deprogram them from this insidious communist plot.
Thanks,
A concerned American who must post AC for my own safety.
for them to take someone else into space and leave them there?
For once, it's the Russians promoting capitalism rather than the US. After all, they've got trouble with a lack of funds, and rather than bleating to their Government about it, they've done the sensible thing - sold a service for a price people are willing to pay! If only NASA would take its head out of its ass and do something this sensible.
Maybe if NASA ever decided that pretentious, high budget, high beurocracy projects like the Shuttle were the complete waste of money and resources that they were, we'd see more people in space. As it is, the money they waste on that inefficient POS would be far better spent elsewhere, repairing the damage to the image NASA has with the American public after doing absolutely nothing for decades.
As it is, maybe Congress should cut their budget some more until they do tighten their belts. The Shuttle is a black hole in terms of funding, and in any corporation it would have been axed years ago. But since NASA haven't managed to come up with anything better in 20 years, they won't get rid of it in case they fall behind other agencies. Well here's news for you - this shows the Russians are already light years ahead in terms of a sensible space policy! NASA should stop whooping it up and get down to some serious work.
... "What can I get for a quarter?"
These guys are going to get scammed! After all, we all know that they aren't going into space, but are just going to be taken to a sound stage in Siberia.
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Stay in school, kids! Peace out, Dubya