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Europeans in Western China, 1200 B.C.
beijing_coder writes: "Caucasian-looking mummies have been discovered in the deserts in Western China since late 1800s. Now DNA tests showed they "belonged to the same genetic lineage as most modern-day Swedes, Finns, Tuscans...". I'd like to add that although the mummies were found in what's Western China today, in recorded history (after the mummies' time) that region were inhabited mostly by nomadic people, not Chinese."
Also, if these have been turning up since the 1800s, is there a major archaeological relevance to that area? What was there at the time, anyone know?
You thought that this sig was what you think that I thought you wanted me to think. I think.
AFAIK, the Finns and Swedes are not at all related. They just happen to have turned out neighbors. Linguistically, at least, the Finn's language is not at all related to any other European language. The exact orgins of the Finn's was, at least as I can remember, unknown.
On the subject of the Finnish...our favorite Finn is actually of the Swedish ethnicity, and just happened to be living in Finland.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
Yes, there are (Indo-) Europeans in Western China right now. They're called Uighurs and they've been there forever so far as I know.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
The 12th century European mummies have their own Linux community.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
I guess the DNA study is a recent development. P revious researchers think they may have been related to the Celts. The Weegas (God knows how many English spelling variations ther are) probably have some ancestry from these peoples. Some of them have blue eyes, which can be seen in other shows about Western China. They do share some cultural characteristics with the mummies. Over time the caucasoid gene pool was replaced by the mongoloid gene pool.
Check out PBS 1998 Nova's Mysterious Mummies of China and for 1999 the Discovery Channel's Riddle of the Desert Mummies
Why oh why is it that all the cool stuff about the history of mankind... er ah humanity is in countries that aren't friendly to America? China, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc.
If you think the international politics are bad. Just check out our very own domestic Graves Act. It allowed aboriginal Americans to claim the 9,000 year old bones of the Kennewick Man as their direct ancestor. Nova also covered this issue with Mystery of the First Americans. His genes show that he's most closely related to the Ainu.
The peopling of the Earth is a contentious issue and probably will be until all our genes are thoroughly mixed and we become a uniform gray with no outward sexual differentiation.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
I believe that Europeans have created a global settlements many times before and each time there has been a fall. Ancient remains of Europeans have been found on every continent long before "modern" Europeans were supposed to have been there. Kenewick man in America, the Anu in Japan, remains in ancient China and Seti's mummy seems to be red head. Ultimately what does it mean? It could mean periodic cometary impacts, catastrophic changes in climate, super volcano's, shifts in the earths magnetic field, liberal socialist philosophy, who knows. :-)
It may ultimately mean that stone will last longer than civilization.
Homo Sap began leaving Africa while the last Ice Age was in progress and North Africa through Arabia was verdant grasslands.
The first to leave spread east through India on to China.
The glaciers retreated and later leavers of Africa could find new land to the north and follow the glacial retreat into Europe and Siberia. Genetic studies show something like 13 men and 6 women fostered all of Europe. Maybe they didn't like speaking Arabic ;)
15,000 years after that, Egyptians built the first pyramid.
We know so little about this subject to date that speculative revisions can be made almost yearly such is the rate of discovery.
does this mean that I have the right to go and yell 'All your base are belong to us' to the Chinese now?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
The link takes me to a story about a ban on pesticides in canada and the history of lawns in the US.
What gives?
Can anyone give me the correct link to this story? And no this isnt redundant no one pointed it out as of yet.
I do however think that this story has more to do with geeks then anyone pertaning to mummys...
Does anyone know the other chemical used in conjection with 2,4d for agent orange?
In my area they use these pesticides and after that article I think I am going to talk to the mayor of my city about getting them banned.
Anyone else think its a good idea to ban this crap?
The Lottery:
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
"Think about french speaking Canadians. They aren't really French but just as Canadian as english speaking Canadians."
Say that is a French Canadian, and they're likely to punch you.
Recently, Secretary of the Interior Bruce Babbit cheerily agreed to let five American Indian tribes have the remains of the Kennewick Man, so they can bury these remains in a proper Indian ritual. The problem is that the Kennewick Man was probably a white guy and not an Indian. His skull isn't an Indian skull at all, but is the kind of skull that white people have. Why's that a problem? Because he was hanging around in America 9,000 years ago; long before any evil white people were supposed to have been here. The remains were found near the Columbia River in Washington state, and apparently there weren't even any Indians around there until about 3,000 years ago. The Kennewick Man is one of those inconvenient things that pop up every so often that cuts the legs out from various PC dogmatic truths. Suddenly, the Indians who have been claiming a moral high ground because "they were here first," have a rival. And, the rival may have been a white guy! "Oh, no, please don't let him have been a white guy," seems to have been the cry from the white haters in our nation. "Hurry and bury him, so the Indians can retain their moral high ground." So, although scientists want to do more testing on the remains to prove the Kennewick Man's genetic origin, the white haters won't allow it. An interesting thing about the Kennewick Man is that the reconstruction of his head, done from his skull, bears a striking resemblance to the actor Patrick Stewart who plays Capt. Piccard of the Starship Enterprise. In fact, the resemblance is so close that one is hard pressed to tell one from the other. Perhaps we need to look at Stewart's family tree to see if any of his ancestors disappeared from Europe while on a boat trip about 9,000 years ago, and maybe the remains should be given to Stewart to bury in Europe in a proper pre-Christian European ritual... http://www.newnation.org/NNN-kennewick-man.html
Caucasians are from the Caucasus Mountains in Russia. That region is the origin of white people. In northern Iran there are people who are whiter than anyone you commonly see in Europe or the U.S.
Since they come from southern Asia, it is not surprising that Caucasians can be found in many places in Asia.
Map of the Caucasus
Bush's education improvements were
Check out: this link
It took some searching. Apparently, their search engine sucks.
Óli
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WinDOS, you can't live with it, and you can live without it.
Working link to mummy article
That PBS already has done a couple of documentaries
on this.
It is hard enough to "classify" modern people
based on bone structure, genetic markers,
physical features (if you have flesh).
Bones from ten thousand years ago are even harder.
K-man doesn't realy fit into any modern categories
acoording many researchers (see PBS special).
10 We'll want that land back now.
9 no, we don't
8 yes, we do
7 etc
6 [you
5 fill
4 in
3 these]
2
1 All your ancestors are belong to us.
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Liberty uber alles.
All kinds of neat things, photos, etc, and you can probably order the video too.
The original story linked above looks like the human interest story of the archeologist and the political interests in China made it relevant as a story, as far as the newspaper editors were concerned.
I can see the Chinese government trying to deal with politically inconvenient truths.
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
There were a number of lerge migrant populations in western china at the time. Over the next 2000 years, they migrated west across the countries of Russia, and eventually sacked Rome. At that time they were collectively called the Hunns. According to most accounts, they had a vary materialistic culture, but also a vary open one, accepting of anyone willing to travel with them. This was the primary reason their population grew so large and their armies were vast enough when approaching Rome.
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--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
Many (most?) U.S. High schools require two years of a foreign language. (High school is roughly 14-18 here, grades 9-12. I think our grades are off by one from most European counts.).
Frequently junior high schools (grades 7-8, but that varies; there are 6-8 and 7-9, and they're sometimes called "middle schools") have spanish and maybe french or german. Two years there tends to replace one year of high school.
Our colleges frequently have a language requirement as well, with college years equating (roughly) two high school years. Four years of high school language will meet most college requirements. Often individual departments (e.g., math) will have a written language test if foreign language research is still relevant (so at my undergraduate, if I had finished the math major instead of taking a pair of minors (philosophy), I would have had to shown that I could translate a page from a german or russian (or french?) math text or article into english (with use of a dictionary). In physics or economics, everything importantis either written in English in the first place, or immediately trnaslated, so there is no similari requirement).
Our requirements are closer in purpose to your third language in sixth grade than the english in third. You're not learnning english to learn about british or american culture or literature, but because it's the universal language. We already happen to speak it; if another language had that role, I assume that we'd be trained in it early on.
Then to get things really wierd, there's an english group pushing to have british rather than american english taught as a foreign language, which completely misses the point--american english isn't the norm because it's spoken in the U.S., but because it's the dialect spoken by everyone else.
hawk
Oh John!
Oh Marcia!
Oh John!!
Oh Marcia!!
Oh shit....
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
There's nothing new in any of this, Indo-Europeans known as Tocharians have long been known to have contact with the Chinese. Some Chinese words such as the Chinese word for dog, were originally Tocharien sourced.
Its well known that Indo-Europeans originated from the Southern Russian Steppe/Central Asian regions. Tadjik, Pamir, Dari & Pashto are all Indo-European languages of Central Asia.
Other past Indo-European languages of that region include Sacian, Bactrian, Sogdian, Kwaresmian & of course Scythian. The Scythians ranged right across the steppe, from the Black Sea (where they traded & fought with the Greeks) all the way to Mongolia (where they traded & fought against the ancient Chinese).
Check this page
http://www.wlc.com/oxus/eyawtkat.htm
Read more about it in the June '94 issue of Discover magazine. There are many pages of content covering these discoveries. It was shortly after the development of the 'bit' that goes into horses mouths, enabling them to pull carts over thousands of miles. This technology spurred the Aryan invasions all over the world, including Turkey where they became known as the Hitites--the first known to have invented steel. And northern India, where they eventually intermarried. The northerners are still known as "Aryans" in the south, as the upper classes are sometimes referred to as "Aryans" in the noth, if I am not mistaken. Over two hundred such mummies were fund in a few sites by '94 (I think from '91 or '92?). Since there were accidental, it indicates that perhaps 100,000 may have actually there. The Aryan Empire was very similar to the Viking Empire. In fact, I think the Vikings were their direct ancestors. --Matthew
Race is a fiction. Knowing that someone is "caucasian looking" or whatever tells you very little about history. If you want to really get a historical understanding of large-scale movements and dominations and where breakthrough technologies came from and how they spread, you should look to linguistics (For instance, it's especially clear in Africa, where linguistic communities still overlap geographically sometimes more than they do technologically). But whoops, sorry, that's just a bunch of "soft" inferences, not a "hard" science like genetics.
Preferential Voting: easy as 1-2-3
Korean is commonly classed as an 'altaic' language, related to turkish and finnish, as well as other languages in northern asia.
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Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Lots of Eurasian nations have common traces with what we consider "typical" European characteristics. And barely they are based in a later mix. In fact I found references of old ancient mongol tribes having blonde hair and blue eyes. Besides, Chingiz Khan was red-bearded.
On what concerns Aryans. As far as I could get from several sources, including the Rig-Veda, we europeans are their enemies. There is a very high probability that the large majority of us are descendants of those that were cursed several times in old texts.
I studied a little bit of mongol and some funny things about us and the Siberians.And this gave me the idea that we europeans didn go to China. We came from China. In hordes. And these hordes do not include indo-europeans per se. It includes a whole group of eurasians: indo-europeans, turkics and finno-hugurians. The history of Europe is an history of a people, for which the mongols are still linguistically very close, which broke away some 9000 years ago. Since then, they have been roaming the west for several times. The origin of this nation is somewhere between Manchuria/Mongolia, and ending in the Altai-Sayan moutainous ridges.
The Flood was recorded in the Sumerian epic of Gilgamesh as well as other myths. Now colleagues of Dr. Mair's are discovering evidence of an ancient civilization in western China that had its own unique writing.
Seastead this.