Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the you-can-see-what-you-wanna dept.
wiredog writes "The EU report on the NSA/GCHQ/et al echelon system is up at cryptome" This is a fairly lengthy piece covering a lot of stuff relating to the feasibility of intercepting transmissions, Cryptography, Privacy and more.
Quit writing all this stuff. Someone has to find all of it and change it every time we switch allies. Be considerate of your neighbors who work in the Ministry of Truth! Thanks. This has been a public service "suggestion" from the Large Male Sibling.
Thank you for pointing that out. As a Visigoth, I felt a bit slighted by being omitted from the protection of Echelon. Can't be too careful with all these Romans milling about.
Re:Echolon is our front line.
by
cygnus
·
· Score: 3
"Echelon is controlled democratically, but it is the undemocratic knife edge that defends and ensures the existance of our democratic Anglo Saxon realms. "
you have a point, but your usage of the term "anglo saxon" is pretty offensive. this country is made up of a variety of ethinc lineages, and anglo saxon by no means has even a plurality, let alone a majority.
also, echelon doesn't have anything to do with WWII, the Nazis, or preventing the plunging of Europe into a pit of darkness. the UKUSA alliance dates back to 1947; echelon to 1971. check it out:
Make a man a slave to keep him safe??
by
HamNRye
·
· Score: 5
I for one do not believe that this government expects us to believe that a system like Echelon will not be used against the citizens of this country. If most people understood what the modern govt. already does to "identify" possible lawbreakers, they would be shocked.
The U.S. Government is known to publish at least 30% of the hate magazines published in this country. There are automated reviews of your utility bills that seek certain patterns. Random IR thermal imaging is employed by almost every city with a population over 250,000. I could keep going on.
These techniques are used to identify people for the local police to investigate. They are illegal, and any evidence cannot be used in court, but they do lead the police to people and then it just gets worse.
I found out about this 6 years ago. I stared growing hydroponic veggies and bonsai etc.... I purchased some nice Hydro equipment from a catalog store, including a big MH light etc... I was initially harassed approximately 5 months after purchasing the equipment. 2 police showed up at my house and said that due to a high volume of people coming and going from my house (my mother was my only visitor all day) they had "probable cause" to search, and I should just let them in. When I refused, they started threatening, etc.
They could never get a warrant, because they could not justify it. So instead, they went through my trash, tapped my phones, put my house under surveilance, followed me to work and stooping me and giving me tickets and they trying to search my car.
To make a long story short, I sued for harrasment, and it was revealed that they got my name and address from the hydro store, (govt. run) and then watched my house for the light to start, and then waited 5 months so they could catch me "at harvest". The only problem is I was growing Roma tomatoes and a lime tree.
In an interview he [Mike Frost, former Candian secret service officer]gave for an Australian TV channel, he said by way of example that the CSE actually had entered the name and telephone number of a woman in a database of possible terrorists because she had used an ambiguous phrase in a harmless telephone conversation with a friend. When searching through intercepted communications, the computer had found the keyword and reproduced the conversation. The analyst was unsure and therefore recorded her personal details.
And to think I thought that the.sig fodder was silly! Doesn't look that way. And just to help Eris out, I shall henceforth be sprinkling my telephone conversations with random outbursts of "nu-coo-luhr terrorism", "anthrax", and "Backstreet Boys."
He [Wayne Madsen, former NSA employee] argues that the NSA had to concede that it held more than 1000 pages of information on Princess Diana, because her conduct ran counter to US policy, owing to her campaign against land mines
That is FUCKING INSANE. Because she held views counter to that of the Pentagon she's now a target for surveillance? CHRIST! I think marijuana and LSD should be legal, and have given money to several organizations who believe similarly. I guess that means the FBI, et al, have a ph1l3 on me because I question the governing orthodoxy.
FUCK YOU GUYS. And don't gimme any shit about "national security" because I will just throw up on your shoes. Oh yeah, we live in a free country. As long as you don't mind the fact that the government regularly compiles information on people that they don't like, even if they are peace loving activists like the goddamn Princess of Wales.
Where's Noam Chomsky when you need him?
As early as 1988, the Max Plank Institute estimated that the damage caused by industrial espionage in Germany amounted to at least DM 8
billion. The chairman of the association of security consultants in Germany quotes a figure of DM 15 bn a year, based on expert evidence.
The President of the European police trade unions, Hermann Lutz, puts the damage at DM 20 bn a year. According to the FBI, US industry
suffered losses of US$ 1.7 bn as a result of competitive intelligence and industrial espionage in the years 1992/1993. The former chairman of
the Secret Service monitoring committee of the House of Representatives in the USA has spoken of losses of US $ 100 bn sustained through
lost contracts and additional research and development costs. It is claimed that between 1990 and 1996 this resulted in the loss of 6 million
jobs.
Encrypt people, encrypt! And roll out IPv6, cuz it's got packet level encryption. It'll help bunches.
You claim to be righteous, but you supported those causes. Diana outwardly was harmless, but she was against U.S. policy.
If keeping yourself from being investigated by the security police was as easy as holding a bunch of flowers and saying "peace, man," then terrorists would be poster children from Haight-Ashbury.
If Diana had been found to be secretly meeting with and funding other causes inimical to U.S. policy--if Lord Blakeney had been found to be the Scarlet Pimpernel--then maybe you'd agree that keeping an eye on them once we got the first clue was a good idea.
N.B. I hold views counter to U.S. policy (Bush's abortion and energy stance, e.g.). I have also held DoD security clearances. When I retire in 30-odd years one of the things I'm going to do is submit FOIA requests for my FBI, CIA, DISCO, Army, and NSA files, spend a few weeks writing a commentary on them, and have the whole thing bound in law-calf.
--Blair
Re:Echolon is our front line.
by
Hard_Code
·
· Score: 3
Wtf is wrong with you boy? Is that a troll, or are you high?
"We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia."
the same stuff I always say ...
by
karb
·
· Score: 5
Surveillance of this sort lets us, oh, I don't know, fight terrorists and avoid wars.
The/. community tends to see technologies they like (napster) in the best possible light (but it can be used legitimately!!!!) and therefore justified. At the same time viewing any technology used by any government agency to do anything useful as the Tools Of Oppression, therefore a precursor to the End Of The World.
The truth of the matter is that there are precious few examples of echelon privacy violations I've seen, at least on slashdot... the french airplane thing, for example. Here's the/. version slowly transmogrified into what I gleaned from cnn articles.
The NSA is stealing industrial secrets from the french and giving them to american companies!! Because of that an american company beat a french company for a large contract to the saudi government!
Oh, wait, the NSA was stealing industrial secrets and giving them to the U.S state department!
Oh, wait, the NSA only told the state department that the french company was offering bribes to saudi government officials. Then the state department told other saudi government officials!
Oh, and the NSA only did that because Congress (remember, the people we elect) passed a Real Actual Law mandating that the NSA report corruption information to the state department when it could potentially harm a U.S. business.
Yeah, the NSA's obviously evil and amok. I'm sure all the boeing employees who kept their jobs hate the fact that NSA monitors communications in foreign countries.
--
Jack Valenti and the MPAA are to technology as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone
That a system for intercepting communications exists, operating by means of cooperation proportionate to their capabilities among the USA, the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, is no longer in doubt. It has been established that this system is operated on the basis of the UK/USA Agreement. That its name is in fact ECHELON seems likely in view of the evidence, but this is a relatively minor detail. What is important is that its purpose is to intercept private and commercial communications, and not military communications. Analysis has revealed that the system cannot be nearly as extensive as some sections of the media have assumed.
So we can come to the conclusion that we only need to be a little paranoid when it comes to the US government?
before you say that der Echelon fought against fascism, you should see the deffinition, and realize that at best it just switched it with a more 20th centurary fascist:
fascism (fshzm)
n.
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
-- --rock me like a huricane? NO rock you
Re:Echolon is our front line.
by
number+one+duck
·
· Score: 5
Yes, it would be a shame for Airstrip One to fall before the hoards of Eastasia. May we and our Eurasian allies stand tall in the face of this threat!
Slashdot Mirror
can be found here.
--
"In the land of the brave and the free, we defend our freedom with the GNU GPL."
"You're gonna need a bigger boat." - Chief Brody
Quit writing all this stuff. Someone has to find all of it and change it every time we switch allies. Be considerate of your neighbors who work in the Ministry of Truth! Thanks. This has been a public service "suggestion" from the Large Male Sibling.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Thank you for pointing that out. As a Visigoth, I felt a bit slighted by being omitted from the protection of Echelon. Can't be too careful with all these Romans milling about.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
#!/usr/bin/perl
my @Words = ("bomb", "attack", "assassinate", "coup", "terrorist");
while ( 1 )
{
print "$Words[rand($$^time)%$#Words+1]\n";
sleep(60);
}
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
you have a point, but your usage of the term "anglo saxon" is pretty offensive. this country is made up of a variety of ethinc lineages, and anglo saxon by no means has even a plurality, let alone a majority.
also, echelon doesn't have anything to do with WWII, the Nazis, or preventing the plunging of Europe into a pit of darkness. the UKUSA alliance dates back to 1947; echelon to 1971. check it out:
The Echelon FAQ from Echelonwatch
Just raise the taxes on crack.
I for one do not believe that this government expects us to believe that a system like Echelon will not be used against the citizens of this country. If most people understood what the modern govt. already does to "identify" possible lawbreakers, they would be shocked.
The U.S. Government is known to publish at least 30% of the hate magazines published in this country. There are automated reviews of your utility bills that seek certain patterns. Random IR thermal imaging is employed by almost every city with a population over 250,000. I could keep going on.
These techniques are used to identify people for the local police to investigate. They are illegal, and any evidence cannot be used in court, but they do lead the police to people and then it just gets worse.
I found out about this 6 years ago. I stared growing hydroponic veggies and bonsai etc.... I purchased some nice Hydro equipment from a catalog store, including a big MH light etc... I was initially harassed approximately 5 months after purchasing the equipment. 2 police showed up at my house and said that due to a high volume of people coming and going from my house (my mother was my only visitor all day) they had "probable cause" to search, and I should just let them in. When I refused, they started threatening, etc.
They could never get a warrant, because they could not justify it. So instead, they went through my trash, tapped my phones, put my house under surveilance, followed me to work and stooping me and giving me tickets and they trying to search my car.
To make a long story short, I sued for harrasment, and it was revealed that they got my name and address from the hydro store, (govt. run) and then watched my house for the light to start, and then waited 5 months so they could catch me "at harvest". The only problem is I was growing Roma tomatoes and a lime tree.
"Mother should I trust the Government???"
~Hammy
In an interview he [Mike Frost, former Candian secret service officer]gave for an Australian TV channel, he said by way of example that the CSE actually had entered the name and telephone number of a woman in a database of possible terrorists because she had used an ambiguous phrase in a harmless telephone conversation with a friend. When searching through intercepted communications, the computer had found the keyword and reproduced the conversation. The analyst was unsure and therefore recorded her personal details.
And to think I thought that the .sig fodder was silly! Doesn't look that way. And just to help Eris out, I shall henceforth be sprinkling my telephone conversations with random outbursts of "nu-coo-luhr terrorism", "anthrax", and "Backstreet Boys."
He [Wayne Madsen, former NSA employee] argues that the NSA had to concede that it held more than 1000 pages of information on Princess Diana, because her conduct ran counter to US policy, owing to her campaign against land mines
That is FUCKING INSANE. Because she held views counter to that of the Pentagon she's now a target for surveillance? CHRIST! I think marijuana and LSD should be legal, and have given money to several organizations who believe similarly. I guess that means the FBI, et al, have a ph1l3 on me because I question the governing orthodoxy.
FUCK YOU GUYS. And don't gimme any shit about "national security" because I will just throw up on your shoes. Oh yeah, we live in a free country. As long as you don't mind the fact that the government regularly compiles information on people that they don't like, even if they are peace loving activists like the goddamn Princess of Wales.
Where's Noam Chomsky when you need him?
As early as 1988, the Max Plank Institute estimated that the damage caused by industrial espionage in Germany amounted to at least DM 8 billion. The chairman of the association of security consultants in Germany quotes a figure of DM 15 bn a year, based on expert evidence. The President of the European police trade unions, Hermann Lutz, puts the damage at DM 20 bn a year. According to the FBI, US industry suffered losses of US$ 1.7 bn as a result of competitive intelligence and industrial espionage in the years 1992/1993. The former chairman of the Secret Service monitoring committee of the House of Representatives in the USA has spoken of losses of US $ 100 bn sustained through lost contracts and additional research and development costs. It is claimed that between 1990 and 1996 this resulted in the loss of 6 million jobs.
Encrypt people, encrypt! And roll out IPv6, cuz it's got packet level encryption. It'll help bunches.
- Rev.It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
The /. community tends to see technologies they like (napster) in the best possible light (but it can be used legitimately!!!!) and therefore justified. At the same time viewing any technology used by any government agency to do anything useful as the Tools Of Oppression, therefore a precursor to the End Of The World.
The truth of the matter is that there are precious few examples of echelon privacy violations I've seen, at least on slashdot ... the french airplane thing, for example. Here's the /. version slowly transmogrified into what I gleaned from cnn articles.
The NSA is stealing industrial secrets from the french and giving them to american companies!! Because of that an american company beat a french company for a large contract to the saudi government!
Oh, wait, the NSA was stealing industrial secrets and giving them to the U.S state department!
Oh, wait, the NSA only told the state department that the french company was offering bribes to saudi government officials. Then the state department told other saudi government officials!
Oh, and the NSA only did that because Congress (remember, the people we elect) passed a Real Actual Law mandating that the NSA report corruption information to the state department when it could potentially harm a U.S. business.
Yeah, the NSA's obviously evil and amok. I'm sure all the boeing employees who kept their jobs hate the fact that NSA monitors communications in foreign countries.
Jack Valenti and the MPAA are to technology as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone
So we can come to the conclusion that we only need to be a little paranoid when it comes to the US government?
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
before you say that der Echelon fought against fascism, you should see the deffinition, and realize that at best it just switched it with a more 20th centurary fascist: fascism (fshzm) n. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
--rock me like a huricane? NO rock you
Yes, it would be a shame for Airstrip One to fall before the hoards of Eastasia. May we and our Eurasian allies stand tall in the face of this threat!