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Motel 6... Hundred Miles Up
SatelliteBoy writes: "Robert Bigelow, the tycoon behind Budget Suites of America, has founded Bigelow Aerospace. He just announced plans to launch a space station. He claims it can go up within 30 months. Let's see what this costs to visit..."
Don Negro
Don Negro
Perl 6 will give you the big knob. -- Larry Wall
>outside the US
ahah! At long last, we've found the rumored developer of commercial BeOS applications. "If it sells just one ticket . .
:)
> and the US has absolutely no gun-toting
> warlords of its own. and the US has absolutely > no gun-toting warlords of its own.
1) she wan't a warlord, but had a legal office.
2) She left town with Bill & Co. in January
hawk
Actually, the ISS is quite noisy. At one point, background noise levels on the Zvezda module were on average, 70-75 dB. So, you may not hear this:
"Honey, we're going to have to use more straps. I just cant get enough friction."
"That's because you keep floating away from me."
But you will hear the incessent drone of hydraulic pumps and fans and dust collectors. Ah, how romantic!
Think about what happens with spillover in a zero-gravity environment.
"Honey, the regs say you have to swallow..."
Ross Perot's based out of Texas, not Nevada.
Hillary Clinton's in New York/Washington D.C.
Besides, what makes Bigelow a crazy megalomaniac? Because he's got money and wants to build a space station?
Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
I wonder if they move it closer to the sun if they will need to leave the light on for you at all...
It takes years of training to learn to fly a 747. It takes five minutes to run through the safety briefing for passengers . . .
As to the health demands of space, they've sent up large numbers of middle-aged and even a few elderly people. Aside from space sickness (which apparently affects both young and old equally), and the G's of the launch (a rollercoaster probably applies more acceleration, and certainly more unpredictably), space is quite fine health-wise for a short-term visit.
Go you big red fire engine!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Probably because Bigelow Aerospace is a defense contracter, and he'll probably manage to make more doing it this way. If the feds try to keep him from doing it, he'll likely look elsewhere.
"The things we wizards have to put up with."--Jethro Bodine
So begin and end the flight in a different country.
Of course, what about the hotel flying/hovering "above the US". At what height does jurisdiction end?
It's not a hoax. I know some of the technical team involved. They're pretty serious about it. And $500 million ain't chicken feed.
Why has nobody else done it? I dunno, but somebody's got to be first in anything. Now's the right time for this to happen; and Bigelow's in the right place. Should be interesting!
Energy: time to change the picture.
There are Russian launchers for both cargo (Proton, not to mention Energiya) and people (Soyuz) that can easily handle what Bigelow needs, for 1/5th to 1/10th Shuttle prices. It'd be nice to have American companies that can do it too, but I think Bigelow's plans on this are pretty realistic if he can make use of the Russian hardware.
Energy: time to change the picture.
and
and finally,
The US doesn't own "everything around the Earth". But per the Outer Space Treaty, the US is responsible for the actions in space of any US-based "entities". Thus, proper govenmental clearance must be obtained before any activities can take place.
i definitely don't want to hear the words 'budget' and 'space travel' in the same sentence.
here we are, sir. your neoprene scuba suit, a heavy winter jacket, two pairs of mittens, and a motorcycle helmet. ask your bunkmate to tie you down with this twine, and enjoy your flight!
complex
Last time I checked - 60,000 feet. There's airspace classes. If you pass through these airspaces you must have permission of the FAA to do so. There is a layer from 18,000 ft(???) to 60,000 feet. I think those numbers are right. FAA has control over those spaces. So the floating hotel should be fine. The flying through us airspace is gonna get tricky. As for being in other countries they will have regs too. Oh and then on return you have to come through cutoms. For FAA details on this stuff see here.
-cpd
Oops, I meant to type "shouldn't".
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Why is he even bothering with the FAA and United States legal BS? If he launches from some other country, like one near the equator to decrease the amount of fuel needed to get into orbit, he should have to deal with the FAA and the US government at all.
Isn't there already a launchpad in some african country near the equator, or didn't russia just make some deal to put one there?
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Not that that proves that no one's ever "done it" in space. Cecil Adams of Straight Dope fame, however, throws water on the idea that anyone ever has "done it".
I imagine that the pool would actually be a room filled with water; the swimmers would use air tanks. The advantage to floating in a normal 0G environment would be that one can swim much more easily through water than air. In fact, I can even foresee that it might make sense to fill certain spaces of a ship with water for exactly that reason. OTOH, the downside would be that one would need to store a lot of air.
The Shuttle is a complete failure if you measure that by it's ability to meet it's objectives. When it was designed, it was expected to cost $50M per launch, not the current $500M+. The cheapest way to put stuff in space is still big fireworks.
Despite all the hype, NASA & the US government aren't really very good at practical planning ahead.
and if your credit card comes back denied, we'll throw you into the airlock and put your lights out for you.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
Its not good to reply to bait, but I'll do it anyways.
:-)
Getting to orbit is one problem, what to do once you are there is another. Bigelow is the first to announce a solid plan for a civilian space station which can be used for tourists and cheaper scientific studies.
Tito is untrained as an astronaut
Tito paid for his training, and spent 9 months of his life working at the cosmodrome to become a fully fledged cosmonaut.
There are other *naut training programs on this planet besides NASA. The russians have one, the European Space Agency has one. The Japanese are creating one, and China has claimed to have one. One of those would love to earn the money from setting up a "civilian" school to train hotel station crew. I know of several commercial airline pilots who would love to spend a couple years of their life as space hotel crew.
Imagine putting on your CV that you worked in a space station, and have logged 17 million flight miles. Earthside jobs might be kind of boring after that.
no space oriented engineers working on it
Why couldn't they get space oriented engineers working on it? There certainly are enough with experience who would jump at the chance to leave NASA's stifling bureaucracy and work in the private sector. There are probably thousands who have already made the jump, and the Russian program would also be a good recruiting ground.
he could cause the death of hundreds of people
At most, with 3 habitation modules, the space hotel could only support 12 or so people. A captain, 3 crew, 2 scientists, and 6 guests. With hundreds of people ready to put up a million US dollars for a short stay in orbit, the hotel could pay for itself with an active 10 year life span. There would also be a steady revenue from scientific companies who can't afford NASAs outrageous payload requirements. TV reality shows already have huge budgets, and someone would love to pay-per-view the first sex in space.
If Bigelow can sustain the capital flow to get regulatory approval, certainly there are launch sites that can put up his modules. They can be launched from Khazakstan or Sea Launch, and avoid most of the NASA/FAA BS.
Tito was the first leak in the dike NASA has imposed, and I'd expect the dam to start to leak more and more soon. There are at least a dozen viable commercial re-usable LEO launcher programs under development. Tito showed all of us dreamers that space can be had by merely throwing money around. Bigelow obviously saw the same thing, and has the capital to act on this Next Big Thing.
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
You are using the 1960's technology space shuttle as the basis for all the stress astronauts encounter during launch.
:-)
There are at least a dozen programs under way to create a low-cost civilian earth-to-LEO launch system. Either launch simple rockets or planes from baloon platforms at 100,000 feet, or use a cargo plane to get to 50,000+ feet and drop from the wing, or SSTO, and the list goes on. The one most likely to be successful will allow just about anyone in reasonable physical shape to get to orbit without violent stresses.
But you are right on the rich part, but you would be surprised how many rich, adventurous people are out there. And don't forget corporations, especially entertainment companies, who could afford to send 3 couples, a cameraman and producer up for a reality based show. Brings whole new meaning to voting someone off the station
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
Once we start sacrificing safety, things will get cheaper. All regulated US transportation industries are much safter than those that are not. Compare airplanes and trains to cars, or even to semis. But, if space has a fatality rate close to the 41,800 per year in the US (1.6 per 100 million vehicle miles), I don't think many people would want to go.
Too big to fail? Does that make me to small to succeed?
It would seriously suck to be housekeeping up there. I imagine maids have interesting stories down here, but I can't imagine everything they'd run into up there.
Think about what happens with spillover in a zero-gravity environment.(define spillover as you wish).
I know the hotel would probably have some technique to create artificial gravity, but still there will be areas (as crowdpleasers) where zero-gravity can be experienced. People will find a way to experiment with this in every way you can or cannot imagine, and in ways you wish you couldn't imagine. eww.
I wonder if they will have a swimming pool. That would be odd in zero G. a big sphere of water hovering in the middle of the room.
This sounds extremely dangerous; Water containment would be the first challenge; I don't know how surface tension differs, but it would stand to my reason that , a "big sphere" would react to newtonian physics as well - if everyone jupmed in on one side, using the walls as a push point or whatever, then the mass of water would be pushed around quite easily. And break. Then you have perpetual zero-grav percipitation, not a pool.
The bigger challenge I see is orientation and buoyancy. IN a 10' deep pool, most people know to swim "up". In a zero-grav environment, especially where pressure is significantly lower than what people are used to, one would easily become quite disoriented. Without unfamiliar buyancy charqacteristics, people could suffocate themselves by swimming "in" instead of "out".
I'm not saying I'd never swim in outerspace; it sounds like a bit of fun, actually. But I'd want a few lessons beforehand.
Do you have any idea just how expensive it is to fly to third-world countries
A damn sight cheaper than to fly into space, I bet ... ;)
Steve
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The US and Russia have very different economies. You can't compare what it costs to do business in one country with what it costs in another. Chances are many of the subcontractors that NASA uses are paid 10x yearly what the Russian workers make. That adds up quickly.
just my blog and pix
re the title:
Robin Williams once made a "Martian Haiku":
Red Sand between my toes
Summer Vacation in outer space
That was a martian haiku, thank you
From "Reality: What a Concept". Of course, it's not a haiku.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Face it, the US is the only country doing anything at all in space anymore.
Not even close. The European Space Agency puts more heavy satellites in geo-synchronous orbit than any other space agency. AFAIK, French based Ariane-Space operates the space launch center in Kourou, French Guiana in South America. They have more launches in a year than anybody else, including NASA and the Russians. The Japanese have even sent a probe to the Moon and are planning to send another to Mars using their own rocket technology. Even India is getting in on the satellite launching business.
My question is, why do Americans think the rest of the world has no technology?
some more perspective. While it will rank as one of the greatest achievements of mankind. During the first ten years of the Apollo moon program (up to the actual first man on the moon), cost 5% of the US gross national product for the period. For 10 years, 5% of the gross production of the US went to the moon program. Think about it. Kennedy had some serious balls.
Someone you trust is one of us.
I'm glad they did too. However, putting a man on the moon stirs up the spirit a bit more than that orbiting vegitable garden they have now (Internation Space Station). By the way, that zero-G brocolli experement takes up 6% of the annual US Budget. (Far more than the roughly 3% tax cut about to be passed).
Someone you trust is one of us.
Hate to argue, but I think your NASA figures are way off the charts. The AP reported that the shuttle costs upwards of 1 billion/mission including development costs. NASA quoted the number at 490 million/launch in 1999. The simple math is that the human flight budget plus mission support is budgeted for a bit over 8 billion FY2001 and they are planning 8 missions. This doesn't included NASA's non-shuttle costs, nor amorization of costs already spent.
Someone you trust is one of us.
I could not agree with you any more. The bottom line, is that all government spending starts out with the best intentions (man in space, get to the moon). But once you spend, they can't stop. Look at NASA. Florida, California and Texas. Hmmm, like a politician is going to cut pork spending in one of those states? I mean, who needs FLORIDA to win an election? NASA will consume a little over 6% of the federal budget in 2002. Those three states get the bulk of that percentage. Think about that. Three states getting 6% of the federal budget. Ok, you are a Senator from Florida. You are getting some piece of 6% of the federal budget, just for NASA. Are you going to say, "Hold on one second, we need to drive these costs down!" I doubt it.
Someone you trust is one of us.
For the same reason they hated Tito. NASA doesn't want anybody to build a space station for 500 million dollars, because it shows how rediculous their budget is. It was the same deal with Tito. Tito payed roughly 12 million to go into space (despite NASA's attempts to claim the number was really 20 million). The Russian crew was three including Tito. Assuming, that the 12 million was enough to cover the costs of a single crew member (why else would they do it), that suggests that it only cost the Russians at most about 36 million (I'm sure it was less). It costs NASA 600 million for each space shuttle launch ( = Space shuttle annual budget / number of launches). Now, if you are a NASA administrator, and some guys says he's going to spend 500 million on a space station, and you can't launch the shuttle for that, what are you going to say!
Someone you trust is one of us.
obviously you've never had sex in space.
E.
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This Post has been brought to you by the letter "E".
I already bought tickets to Boston for our honeymoon. Zero-G would be lots more fun!
Got Rhinos?
All I can say is that it's about bloody TIME!
We were promised this decades ago. Now it's starting to happen. Maybe I'll see space tourism in my lifetime afterall.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
I've heard it said (on what authority, I honestly have no idea) that the lack of gravity actually makes things a lot more difficult (you push, she just floats away). However, breasts in zero g would certainly be a sight to behold...
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
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-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
We'll leave the life support on fer ya.
Ok my karma is maxed out. When do I become Enlightened?
Is it just me or did someone else notice that all these crazy megalomaniacs are always based in the most kitsch and megalomaniac city of this world?
You bring up an interesting point.... Does the FDA have juristiction in Space? I wonder how pot would grow in 0G.
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
NASA also has to be concerned about the safety of the other missions. If a mission fails, and people are killed (which is probably more likely than mere injury), that can cause a very serious backlash against the space industry in general.
"But is it safe?"
"We need to make sure none of our boys/girls will get hurt."
"Let's wait a few years and re-evaluate our current safety precautions/proceedures."
And so on. You can imagine how much NASA would like to continue with their current plans of action, and not have to fend off safety concerns from the general public, people who historically have never understood these kinds of complex issues. All they know is that "something bad" happened and "how are we going to stop it from happening again."
If the mission fails, there will be significant political/public opinion setbacks for NASA. They're worried, and rightfully so.
I don't know how good I feel about the owner of a chain named "Budget Suites" attempting to put up a quick space station... The mental image I get in my head is 3 GIANT soda cans linked together with twine floating around the earth. =)
Humorless sig goes here.
I'm talking about the Internet. I feel that the analogy is or will be paralleled with space occupancy. We've set the foundation and I expect the life/business/education needs to require space habitation as a normal way of life.
I predict by 2010 (no special reason for that year), the first regular families will be aboard a space station as workers in research and specialized manufacturing businesses will consider that home. No sense NOT living close to work and being close to your family.
That's why when selling Disney Land packages in Detroit they must always come with cheap airfare.
The Russians are going to beat us up there. Our government just doesn't understand the free market like they do in Moscow.
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
You'd have better results with a concentrated halucinate like Acid, 100 hits on a 20 gram blotter paper.
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
"The papers and forms don't exist for an application like this."
Umm the FAA dosn't own space. Just go.
(I am sure europe would be interested to know the american government seems to think it owns everything around the earth)
==>Lazn
Robert Bigelow, who made his fortune as owner of Budget Suites of America, said he anticipates that his Bigelow Aerospace division will be able to launch a full-size space station module into orbit within 30 months.
It would take three such modules linked together to create a space station the size of the current International Space Station, he said.
Bigelow said the private space station would be a destination for space tourists and could be used by drug firms.....
Sounds like a perfect holiday location....Nothing for miles except fellow tourists and drugs. But hang on, when you're already floating around and are totally spaced out...who needs drugs?
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10);'
There was a pretty cool Hilton(?) commercial several years ago which painted a very romantacized version of a high class hotel in space. Other than they view, though, what the heck is there to do/see?
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Now let's see how many chicks I can get to join the 100 mile high club!
In all seriousness, in light of that, why is Bigallow even bothering with the FAA? Why doesn't he go lease some small island and work with the Russian or Chinese space program or the up and coming Austrelian Space PRogram to get resources and transportation needed to construct his space station. After all, what yould the US government do? threaten to blow it out of the sky? Somehow I don't think the public would take to that vary well. As it is, I can Garuntee that if he gets the license he's seeking, one of the provisions of the deal will be that the space station will be governed by US law. Probably not the most ideal if youwant to rent out Lab space to pharmicutical companies...
--CTH
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
This was revealed to be false several days later here on slashdot
I doubt If I see it in my lifetime...
I've been pondering this article for a while, and I'm pretty certain that its a hoax. Could the wealth of a huge motel chain put people in space? I'm sure this guy is rich, but there are richer people who arn't doing this!
This is, however, getting "Budget Suites" mentioned all over the news, and portrayed as being modern, with it, cool, etc. Nice...
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The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. --Ben Franklin
I stayed at the budget suites in Las Vegas (they have several there, I was at the "Rancho" one) and it was horrible. The maid comes once a week if you get the weekly rate. Since I was there for seven days, I got my sheets changed ONCE. After our second day there they ran out of towels and just kept saying "were waiting on the laundry service". I was there with a decent sized group (for a paintball tournament) and several people outright lost their reservations for no good reason. Though they had previously promised that we could park a 20 ft trailer there, that turned out to be false. While I was trying to talk to the dumb inbred whitetrash bitch at the front desk, she took a call from her mom and started arguing with her about gambling debts. It was incredible!
[end rant]
Anyway, if they new "space hotel" is of enven remotely simmilar quality as their earth hotels, I won't be going anywhere near there!
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The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. --Ben Franklin
... Bigelow (may I call you Deuce?), NASA views space as a monopoly? And that's why they resisted to Tito's entering space? I doubt that. They probably resisted to Tito's space journey due to the fact Tito is untrained as an astronaut and could have caused catastrophic damage to the space shuttle, possibly killing the crew, even unintentionally. They wouldn't let anyone else go up, so why make an exception for someone with money?
Also, how safe would this thing be with no space oriented engineers working on it? Would it be redundant like a NASA or Russian Space Program creation? I wouldn't want to visit a flying deathtrap. And, given the right mistakes, that's what this thing would be. It'd make MIR in its final years look like a resort.
I hope that if this guy gets to go through with this that he at least uses some engineers with the proper training (NASA engineers that have lost their job, perhaps?) Otherwise, he could cause the death of hundreds of people. I wouldn't visit it if there's such a thing as a "CAPTAIN'S ESCAPE POD" in the blueprints...
Do you like German cars?
... That wasn't flamebait.
Tito wasn't at the time, and NASA didn't seem to want to take the time to train him, even if he paid. Maybe they had other reasons...
It wasn't toward Tito, but rather toward the guy who made such a statement toward NASA.
Sorry if you thought it was flamebait, it wasn't intended that way. Later!
Do you like German cars?
At the end of the day, you're tired from space walking everywhere with the kids, the long ride in the station wagon shuttle on the way to Grandma's house on the moon, all you really want is some rest, clean atmosphere and a vaccuum you can pee into. Here at Space Station Six, we beleive in amenities like artifical gravity, free space suits for the kids and a complementary freeze dried continental breakfast.
So come on down to Space Station 6 next time you're trekking across the cosmos. We'll leave the landing light on for you.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
the months of rigorous training astronauts go through before they go into space. I think this is misleading because it implies any Tom, Dick or Harry can go into space. Not only will you have to be rich, but you will have almost a flawless human specimen to be able to up.
Crazy, but cool. Really the first thing they'll have to do is make the name more appealing - I don't think that too many people would be willing to orbit the world in a "Budget Suites" Tin Can... well, maybe I would.
ok the real question is how long till the adult industry starts exploring space. They seem to be the first in every other field and successful at that!!! Bring on the space hookers
***I GOT NUTHIN***
The station's viability also depends on developing a commercially practical way of transporting space tourists. Bigelow's company is not involved in that effort, but other companies are.
This sounds like an advertising stunt to me; eventually, they will be told "no" by someone, or they will get everything ready and be "waiting for transportation to become available"...in the meantime, cheap advertising for the real hotels down here.
--MarkusQ
The governments of the world can only project the space program so far because it is unprofitable. If someone can successfully create a profit in space, it will result in more interest in the project and thus, more private funds. The space race of the people and for the people is on.
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Just because a bunch of people believe or do something stupid, doesn't make it any less stupid.
There was an excellent book written by John Barnes and Buzz Aldrin, called Encounter with Tiber. It was, in large part, a platform for Barnes and Aldrin to present methods in which today's technology could take people into orbit relatively inexpensively. I'm excited to see if Bigelow's space station comes to pass, because it might finally give commercial entities a reason to research and construct some decent ground-to-orbit ships.