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Australians to Build Spaceport on Christmas Island
Saint Aardvark the Carpeted writes: "CNN reports here that they're jumping into the satellite launching business by building a spaceport on Christmas Island. At only 10 degrees from the equator, the location offers cheaper launches for the launch vehicles, which the government has already agreed to buy from Russia in May."
So you say we should not go to space because we might kill some crabs. Then please go back to your cave, and *please* leave that computer here. Have you any clue how much environmental impact the production of a personal computer has? And we buy a new one every 4 years!
The debris falls to the east. Have you never seen a launch from the cape? And there will be no country downrange. Thats the whole point of putting the spaceport on an island!
Doesn't Kolibri mean "Hummingbird?"
Learned that from the old Genesis game. Possibly the best hummingbird-based shooter ever. =)
If I recall (probably wrongly) didn't the UK test a few nukes there in the 60s? If they can survive that I don't think a space port is going to bother them too much.
goatse.cx
So it is true that there is no bad publicity.
I wonder where the Australian officials got the idea from. I guess Christmas is not a very popular place. Maybe they read too much Slashdot at -1 level.
So if you want to develop space industry in your small country, now you know how to promote it.
__
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
It used to be back in the 50's n such Australia was one of the major competitors in the space arena. I can't remember where it is now, but they had a complete launch complex, and one day completely gave it up. I always wondered why they gave it up, but it's good to see another country getting into it... and I'm sure the US gov is somewhat happy that it's a country which is an ally.
Also what of Christmas Island being a Russian Terrotory?? I thought it has always been an Australian Territory.
---- Fight to protect your right to keep and arm bears! ummmm... ya I think that's right....
Free meal for everybody!
today's menu in restaurant "au spaceport"
- fresh crabs, baken/cooked!
Freaker / TuC
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
So the Aussies are trying to make it easier for Santa to deliver gifts to extra-terrarestials?
Well... the Oz military developed a gadget called a HoveRoc, a missile which you fire from a destroyer to fly off nearby and hover, making destroyerish noises (radio, sonar etc) to attract missiles. This cost them (including the first three operational missiles) something less than a fiftieth of the price for the US military to get asingle prototype hovering (no countermeasures yet, just hovering). Conservatively scaling the $US52M by that factor means you've really got a $2.5G spaceport... (-:
Also, a lot depends on what you mean by ``spaceport.'' $Oz100M can buy a lot of bulldozer time for pushing industrial wastes into pristine lagoons, plus a concrete jetty and a tin shed for the bloke who pushes the button.
To all the ecologists who just stood up, red-faced, to abuse the living daylights out of me, they'll probably really be building the launch pad in a closed bird-poo (phosphate) mine, and lagoons would be most unsuitable targets for landing and recovering inbound gear.
On the subject of the crabs, the gobbledok who proposed little tunnels under the road is invited to stand on one of said roads during the crab season. At this point, I'd like to remind you that these little blighters are so hard and sharp that they puncture modern car tyres.
Crab season only happens for a couple of days each year, but during those days you get many millions of crabs across the road. You'd basically have to build a very low elevated roadway (say, 50cm clear of the ground) to replace practically all of the roads, in order to help noticeably. The $Oz100M for the spaceport probably wouldn't cover that.
Many more crabs would be eaten by gulls or whatever than crushed by cars. Has your sense of proportion kicked in yet?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I think it's unlikely that "large amounts of metal" will be thrown skyward through this proposed facility, for three reasons:
Put those factors together, and it looks like it will be very difficult for APSC to raise the money needed to build the spaceport, let alone win many launch contracts.
This is a similar situation to a launch pad based in (Venezuala? Forgot link...) where the introduction of the Space Industry was meant to make life so much better for the locals, but in reality they all want rid of it because it brought none of the expected benefits.
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. The only involvement Venezuela has had in launch site development in recent years is when it tried to block a proposed launch site in neighboring Guyana that now-defunct Beal Aerospace planned to build, and that was primarily because the launch site was to be in disputed territory that Venezuela claimed as its own.
Think about it: at the north pole, you're just spinning in place. At the equator, you move 1000 miles east every hour. You can take advantage of that movement to save fuel.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Check out the hypergolic propellants that the proton uses. This is not your typical kerosine or H2 and LOX rocket. The propellants ignite on contact, and produce lots of nitrogen oxides. The exhaust is orange.
BTW, the U.S. Titan ICBM's used this same type of propellant.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
How is this different from the one that was announced a month ago on Slashdot?
I wonder how this will effect the resident crab population.
In an older National Geographic I remember seeing Millions of red crabs overrun the island - this happens once a year. There is a picture of these crabs with the story link.
I would guess that Christmas Island has quite a unique ecosystem. I hope the installation of a launching pad et al. does not mess things up too much.
Still on the bright side, after a rocket launch... there would be lotsa cooked crab up for grabs...
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
....now we will get links to http://www.spaceport.cx/ hidden all over the place.
Yeah, and when people load up the page they'll be greeted by a picture of a gaping rocket motor nozzle...
C-X C-S
Now if only some hunters would take out those @#$!# Canada geese that crap all over the place at my apartment complex. Apparently they're federally protected, so golf courses around here have taken to hiring dogs to scare the geese away rather than hunting them. Where I live, they've even eaten the grass all the way down to the dirt, and every year they pop out another crop of goslings.
I've heard that geese like wide-open lawns, so maybe my landlord could get rid of them with some hedges. Hopefully I'm moving soon; my landlord hasn't tried anything useful in the last few years.
Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Ah, that's the funny part. I live in suburban Cook County, IL, which probably has some of the largest preserved tracts of forest land of any similar urban/suburban area. We have plenty of forests, fields, and ponds for them to live in; they prefer the pond behind the main office or corporate office parks instead.
I agree, they were here first, and we have screwed up their ecosystem pretty well. First they were hunted almost to extinction, and now there's essentially no hunting of them (protected under the Endangered Species Act IIRC), and really no natural predators left in the area. And apparently they like well-mowed lawns and suburban living as much as anyone - it's practically a plague of geese whenever you go outside.
Oh well, at least I would have eaten OK if Y2K had happened after all. They're mean, but they're fat and dumb too :)
Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
FYI Australia launched their first satellite from Woomera in South Australia in November '67. So Australia isn't that knew to the space business.
It's just that they decided to specialise in areas more vital to national interests.
There is an interesting non-commercial, non-government Australian space program here:
http://www.asri.org.au/ASRI/index.xml
My guess is about 20 launches a year, becuase that's roughly the capacity of most launch sites.
I don't think that restrictions wil be budgetary, since they'll be marketing their services internationally, and charging a fee.
Most space launches have a launch window every day of the year, so that's not a factor. Generally, only spacecraft going outside the Earth's gravitational sphere of influence (e.g. to Mars) have a window that is closed over most of a year (or more).
Helium balloons want to be free.
It'll mostly fall to the East, but they'll be capable of polar launches, so it could go North or South - probably north. They'll probably never launch to the west, since that's against the Earth's rotation; although the popular sun synchronous orbits are slightly retrograde (inclination of about 98 degrees).
Helium balloons want to be free.
Yes! I can't get mail for my .cx domain. What can you do when your TLD goes down? grrr....
We have that exact problem here. Our herds were so large at one point they had to add an extra season in there just to cull out more of the herd. I'd rather have a deer shot and dead quickly than have it face a slow, agonizing death of starvation.
:)
On another note, I hear that the crabs cost the locals thousands in tire repairs every year, as well.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
But, unless we change our way of thinking about space travel, its either going to be 5 years, or 5 million years before an Earthling sets foot on an another planet.
Except that 12 people have already set foot on another planet.
Russia is well-known for highly poisonous rocket exhaust, especially from the PROTON rocket.
The exhaust from the shuttle SRBs is rather nasty too (though the main engines should be fine as they just produce steam.) Ariane 5 also uses SRBs
Space travel is not exotic. It shouldnt have to be so expensive that only multinationals and major governments can afford it. Rocket fuel costs about as much as milk.
But you need rather a lot of it to get something in to orbit. IIRC there are also issues with ordinary people producing rockets with avionics and control systems on board.
And why is this? Plenty of folks build complicated items in their spare time on a daily basis. Many of these items are, in fact, highly complicated aircraft.
Governments get upset about the idea of "guided missiles" in the hands of civilians. It's rather hard to convert a kit aircraft into a serviciable cruise missile. If you can make a rocket capable of reaching orbit you can bomb just about anywhere on the planet.
Space travel is not exotic. It shouldnt have to be so expensive that only multinationals and major governments can afford it. Rocket fuel costs about as much as milk. The suborbital V2-rocket produced by the Germans during WW2 only cost about 2000$ each.
2000$ You sources for that must have missed a couple of digits there, even when considering that the SS provided cheap slave labour to assemble the V-2 (A-4) rockets in the underground kz-camps.
In fact, western scientist made a postwar estimate, that the german rocket project was more expensive than the "Manhatten" project (US-GB effort to develop the a-bomb), a project which by all standards was an expensive one.
The german "rocket" project (V-1, V-2, Wasserfall, ME-163 etc) was a massive and spectacular faillure, but it probably helped shortening the war by some months, since its huge, ressource draining efforts, sucked valuable ressources from the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe.
Only one digit actually.. I screwed up with the $2000. According to the paper which I originally got the figure from, it was $13,000. Thats still not too bad.
13.000$ for a single V-2, even in 1944 currency wouldn't cut it. The V-2 (A-4) rocket program, was by far the largest project of all german rocket projects. There is no way that 13.000 US 1944 dollars per V-2 could pay the actual costs, of the V-2 rocket project.
[snip] its also interesting to note that the V2 weighted 13,000 Kg at launch time. Given a 1000 Kg warhead, The V2 could put a package up 40 miles, at 1/10th orbital velocity (16,500 mph i believe) So basically, the Nazis spent about $13 for each Kg of explosives they lobbed over the English Channel.
The monetary figures are wrong, but cost was not the only thing wrong with the german rocket project, since it drew valuable ressources (materials, manpower and research) away from war production. Consider this; the german army had been loosing more trucks than it got since 1939. The result was, that the Wehrmacht demodernized its army in 1941, to walking and horsedrawn army (only 10% was mechanized).
I am not saying that the rocket project was to blame for all of that, but..
And consider how little the rocket projects gained: VT-fuses, Tempest fighters, and radar did that, perhaps only 2-4% of all V-1's ever reached England at the end of the campaign.
The V-2 had a puny payload of 1 ton; B-17's and B-24's would routinely carry 6x as much, and the Lancaster could carry up till 12x as much. And allied bombers at least had a chance to hit anything of importance, unlike the unguided V-2's, who was fired in the general direction of southern England, hoping to hit something else than a wheat field. A "strategy" that accomplished nothing.
The german rocket project got way out of control, which was a fairly typical thing for projects for the Third Reichs disorganized, corrupt, confused, ineffecient, lack-of-foresight way of handling things.
To make a point here, economies of scale apply to rocket launches too. The volume of launches is what drives down costs.
Yes, of course. Sattelite launches has become cheaper thereof. But first one needs huge investments and lots of expensive research. And chemical orbital rockets will never be _very_ cheap, just cheaper than outrageously expensive.
--
They should put the spaceport on Easter Island. The islanders would allow it so long as in exchange they were able to borrow the spaceships on weekends to half bury some stone statues.
As far as I can find the island's major industry is phosphate mining. Is launching an occasional spacecraft going to be much worse?
From http://www.christmas.net.au/ :
[...] it was not until 1888 that Christmas Island was settled [...]
[...]As there was no indigenous population, a work force had to be imported[to work in the phosphate mines]
The island has [...] been chosen as a suitable site for a space satellite launching station. A decision for the Asia Pacific Space Centre project will be determined by an Environmental Impact Study which is nearly complete.
And BTW, that environmental study has been done, evidently finding that the damages you propose are unlikely.
i would also suggest taking a look at how great a boon to wildlife, endangered and otherwise, that NASA's Cape Canaveral space facilities (USA, Florida) has turned out to be, to see how this has turned out before in the Real World.
Seriously. You can't build anything for miles around a space port, so the wildlife tends to thrive.
That's what they found in Florida, anyway.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
> who are you to say? Can I see your sources please?
... debate ..., where party A asserts that "X is currently doable", and another replies "no it isn't yet", the burden of proof is on party A, since it is far simpler to provide proof of the existence of a technology than it is to conclusively prove it's absence.
I hate to be the one to point this out to you, but in any
This is often seen in crank circles, for eg.
A: "UFO's abduct people every day!"
B: "no they don't"
A: "O yeah? prove it doesn't happen!"
While not wishing to tar you with the same brush as cranks, it is plain to see that the burden of proof is on A not B.
In short, let's see your sources on zero-g smelting, self-sustaining orbital ecologies, human bone weakness problem (or the feasablity of the alternative, rotating space staions) and radiation shielding. If they are good, I'll enjoy reading them and changing my mind.
>There is a lot we have yet to research in order to undertake a _real_ colonization effort That sort of knowledge wont just materialize from nothing.
Agreed. So don't shoot the messenger. I'm all for space migration for the Earth & for our species's sake, I'm just more realistic - I see it as a long-term project in need of basic research.
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
You haven't thought this through very far, have you? Getting to space is the least of our problems. With our current level of technology, a human population cannot survive indefinitely in space, and can only stay there temporarily at massive cost.
Living conditions, even in the brand new IIS, are cramped, noisy, smelly and life support takes lots of highly skilled maintainence.
We are nowhere close to making a safe, self-sustaining, self-feeding zero-g ecology.
We have no techniques yet for exploiting natural resources (e.g mining iron for construction) in a vacuum yet - construction work is exeedingly laborius and involves components manufactured entirely on earth.
There is no solution yet for the detrimental changes that long-term weightlessness has on human physiology - calcium loss in the bones etc.
Besides that, radiation shielding would be needed or they would die out within a generation from cancer and other detrimental mutations. That atmosphere thing protects us from most nasty solar radiation.
We don't need pioneers ... yet.
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
To briefly state my opinions..
I believe that large scale public involvement will ultimatly be the greatest force behind the drive for space colonization.
As well, I believe the most important thing to focus on in the near-term would be the establishment of space-based industrial infrastructure. That is, mining the Moon and near-earth asteroids, and manufacturing space station components, lunar habitats, and space vehicles. If we can produce everything we need from space, then we can eliminate most of the launches that currently take place. After that, all we need to send up are people.
Space travel is not exotic. It shouldnt have to be so expensive that only multinationals and major governments can afford it. Rocket fuel costs about as much as milk. The suborbital V2-rocket produced by the Germans during WW2 only cost about 2000$ each. Space will not always be so expensive to reach. The sooner we can collectively realize this, the faster we can make inroads into space access. Thanks to economies of scale, we can either send 4 people to mars, or 40,000 people within the same timeframe. And most importantly, you could be one of those 40,000. Space can be had by the common public. We don't need to wait on new technological developments, and we dont need the support of a government agency. We just need pioneers.
*nod* I agree with that, and I hope the planners on
Christmas Island used to be where the British and Australlians allowed the Americans do detonate Hydrogeon Bombs. If the crabs survived 10 megaton explosions, I think they'll survive the space port.
Someone you trust is one of us.
Russia is well-known for highly poisonous rocket exhaust, especially from the PROTON rocket. I seem to remember this being used recently. Does anyone know if this is true and whether the launch vehicles Australia purchased might be using something similar?
A few years xmas islands casino went broke, aparently it was a big earner for the island, lots of people lost jogbs, left the island etc etc.
Also xmas islands had problems getting supplies from the mainland, like fresh fruit and vegtables, they all got shiped by boat, which couldnt make the trip in rough wether.
The all weather port and bigger airport will be a good long term infrastructure for locals.
Its probably the best thing that ever happened to them.
oh, and im sure the crabs will be fine, i dont think the locals go hooning around trying to find crabs to drive over... when they are on the move its quite literally hard to avoid them unless you turn around and drive all the way around the island.
My sister used to live there, the above opinions are based on what she told me.
Last time Christmas Island dealt with big Western hardware, the British were nuking them. USA did it to Bikini and Eniwetok, UK chose Christmas.
Nowadays there's a casino on Christmas, which means foreign tourists, prostitution and wiping out the local population with HIV.
Being a launch site isn't such a bad option.
So when do I get to redeem my tickets to Mos Eisley?
The joke being intended, of course, to convey that "Spaceport" is a rather strong term for a mere satellite launch pad. Really.
When I think of "spaceport", I think of ships from space, coming and going. Ya know, like an airport, but for space.
*shrug* oh well.
========================
63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs,
ya get 1 whacked with a service pack,
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
But could someone please tell me which way any debris like wasted booster rockets will go - East or West? I figure one of the directions has got to be a better one to launch in due to the rotation of the Earth, but I can't figure out which. Which countries will be under the path of any launches?
That's the sound of your joke going straight over the heads of a lot (most?) of the Slashdot crowd : )
And don't be so down on Harold - he's great comic relief from the more depressing stories in Neighbours - Lance and Toady are fighting? Well, never mind cos Harold's getting frustrated by the washing machine or something. Fantastic (and so much less depressing than Eastenders). Now if only they'd bring Mrs Mangle back....
Not quite, we Australians allowed the British to test nukes there. I don't think the Americans ever tested bombs here, why would they need to? They had Nevada and lots of small Pacific islands.
--
The real Captain Avatar is a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't mind if I impersonate him.
Well, it's not the first time, actually - rockets were launched from the Woomera test range way back when, and Australia even designed, built and launched a satellite (WRESAT 1) back in 1967. Of course, this makes your comment even more ironic, since Woomera has more recently become infamous as a refugee detention centre!
--
The real Captain Avatar is a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't mind if I impersonate him.
I think they did the nuclear tests to the other Christmas Island, the one in the Pacific, not the one in the Indian ocean.
--
The term "illegal alien" contrieves a whole new meaning... Now other than Iraqi and Indonesian boat people, we have to deal with International Space Station refugees and political assylum seekers. Oh well, for the first time in Australian history we will be the ones shooting garbage into space rather than having it fall down into our backyards.
Revolution = Evolution
Well they used to be in the shit shovelling (guano) business if I remember correctly. Dunno what they are doing now, but this just might be an improvement.
--
Anyone who generalizes about slashdotters is a typical slashdotter.
$52 million US is not going to buy you a spaceport, so presumably the private sector is providing the the remaining funding. Anyone like to speculate on the total cost?
... the 1,200 Christamas Island inhabitants who will now need to put up with the noise and pollution generated by throwing large amounts of metal skywards.
This is a similar situation to a launch pad based in (Venezuala? Forgot link...) where the introduction of the Space Industry was meant to make life so much better for the locals, but in reality they all want rid of it because it brought none of the expected benefits.
To the residents of Christmas Island: RIP your way of life.
*sigh*
CNN is building a spaceport?!
the point about this is we have political stability, a legal system with strong property rights thats compatible with the rest of the western world, and a location that's very close to the equator (which saves a big heap of fuel).
Given how hard it is to find that combination (singapore could do it but they don't have the room) it's worth taking a shot at getting into commercial satellite launch. The asian market is looking to heat up in a big way.
Also worth noting that Christmas Island has long been viewed by the Austraslian Defence Force as "an unsinkable aircraft carrier" with which to scare Indonesia... I'm not sure how this is going to affect that.
'There is a Light that never goes out.'
When I read about this in the paper the other day, I checked around to find out some stuff about Christmas Island. One thing I found out is that there is currently no real estate for sale on the island. I guess speculators found out about the space port early and bought it all up. Too bad if you live there.
...
(or something)
The slashdot 2 minute between postings limit: /.'ers since Spring 2001.
Pissing off coffee drinking
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
Isn't that where misfit toys are sent?
Frylock: That's not a toy!
Master Shake: You say that about everything you own. You should own toys. They're fun.
Actually, I'd be for the viaducts even if the wildlife population isn't affected. I'd be worried about my car.
But I also agree about the hunting. Let's cull the herd before it's done through the medium of starvation. Don't forget that the end deaths will be 2-3 times what the hunting would be, because the deer that end up starving still eat before starving to death. It also results in damaged forest areas as the deer strip anything remotly edible.
Firethorn
I don't read AC A human right
If you ever wondered what the .cx in "goatse.cx" stood for, now you know. CX is the TLD for Christmas Island.(The link points to a somewhat broken site, but it gets the point across.)
Several "passageways" under the roads were built for the crabs to safely cross. However, there are two factors contributing to the death of the crabs: 1) They're too stupid to use the passageways. 2) There are soooo many crabs, that they couldn't all fit in there anyways.
The inhabitants DO think about solutions, there just isn't a good one. They certainly aren't going to stop life as we know it on the island for a few million crabs, but they have made some allowances.
there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
I'm not blaming anyone. I'm merely commenting that you were misinformed. Some (all??) roads do have passageways for crab migration. However, they haven't taken any steps to force the crabs to use them. Given that several million crabs DO make it successfully from the forest to the ocean, I agree, a million crab loss sucks, but since they aren't anywhere even close to being endangered, I'm not going to lose sleep over it; especially when it's a few thousand miles away.
there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
Tom.
Oh arse
....now we will get links to http://www.spaceport.cx/ hidden all over the place. Oh, well it's better than goatse.cx ^_^
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
This could be good...the US needs some competition to give them a good kick in the pants to get us back in the space "race"
To think, we were headed in the right direction only when blinded by fear and greed. That's sad.
Magius_AR
If you move into their living space and take over all their food sources, they are going to chew up your lawns. If the local government would provide a few preserves where they could live and eat, they wouldn't be in your apartment complex.
slip of the mouse maybe?
have you ever sent this in as an article or to ask slashdot?
it doesn't quite fit here, but some people might be interested
And if so why? Given the current econmics of entering space is this a joint operation or doing it on their own. Would be interesting to see how much money the expect to save.
"Things that you own end up owning you" - Tyler Durden (via Diogenes of Sinope).
...its a cunning ploy to broad cast "Home and Away" and "Neighbours" live to the rest of the world. Harold Bishop could be the next big movie start. Scary : )
"Things that you own end up owning you" - Tyler Durden (via Diogenes of Sinope).
And do you suppose the crusoe chip is carved out of wood and stone by native craftsmen? No, it's produced using the same nasty chemical processes as other chips. The worst pollution comes from the solvents used to clean the silicon wafers before the actual etching starts.
Also, if all thats standing between us and cheaper space flight is a few million crabs lets just boil them and get on with it.
This is a bowel disruptor, and you are just full of shit. - Spider Jerusalem
My school (Knox Grammar in Sydney, Australia) has a joint satellite project with another school in Sydney, Ravenswood and a school in Russia.
The satellite is named "Kolibri" and each school has equipment for communicating and recieving data from the satellite.
The students are performing actual research regarding "the structure and intensity of low-frequency electromagmetic fields around the Earth".
You can read more about this project here and here.
Did anyone around here with a .cx domain notice that at almost exactly the same time /. went down Friday, so did niccx.com? I've not been able to get through to them at all since. Anyone know what's happened Down Under?
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
At last we Australians have a long term solution to the illegal Indonesian boatpeople!
The viaducts are a great idea when you're dealing with a population of wildlife that's being adversely affected by humanity. In this case at least from the little bit of information I've seen humanity is just acting as a check. For the individual red crab it may suck getting run over by a car, but statistically it might be the better thing unless other predators are introduced.
It's sort of like the anti-hunting people who complain about shooting bambi. I don't hunt, but I respect the right to hunt (according to laws etc). Since we've killed off most of their natural predators (wolves) deer populations run rampant in some places. This means that they often face starvation as food supplies go scarce. Reducing the population of deer (or more accurately, controlling) through hunting is more humane than just letting herds grow to the point where their food supply can't support them. Again, for the deer that is turned into steaks its a raw deal, but for the herd as a whole its a good thing.
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
As there was no indigenous population, a work force had to be imported[to work in the phosphate mines] If I understand the source of the "phosphate" correctly, the main industry there is mining well-aged bird poop. In a tropical climate. Tourism may be a significant industry also -- but I grew up in a town that lived on tourism, and shoveling bird poop might be preferable to the tourist trade. So I think the residents are likely to consider a few minutes of loud noise every few days as an good trade off for new jobs.
If you ever wondered what the .cx in "goatse.cx" stood for, now you know.
I guess the Australian space agency got the idea after they got mooned a bunch of times.
In fact, I have a sony picturebook with a Crusoe cpu (usage: 1 Watt on average). But thanks for the concern.
Nonsense. They are not too stupid. The ones who built them were too stupid to make them work. You cannot blame the crabs for this. In Holland, in wildlife area's, road are closed and every small animal will get to the passageway, eventually. You just proof that no serious effort has been made to safe more than 1 million red crabs every year. Your concern is more with the damage to your car tires.
Right now, people just drive over the crabs when they cross roads during there yearly crab migration. Apperantly, the inhabitants don't even think about a solution. In Holland we have special little viaducts for wildlife roadcrossing. On Chrismas Island the red crabs are killed by millions every year. What will this spaceport do the population? Is there even being thought of the consequences for the crabs?
More on Christmas Island crabs:
http://www.kidzworld.com/Frameset/reloadframe.asp? s=102&p=http://www.kidzworld.com/site/p820.htm
http://www.markuskappeler.ch/fot/fots/ch_crabs.htm l
ummmmmmm, right - Easter Island is in the PACIFIC ocean, a long way off the coast of Chile. Christmas Island is in the INDIAN ocean, off the coast of Indonesia. theres this tiny little place called Australia, that sits in the middle.
I recommend looking at an atlas to help you get a feel for the distance and difference between the two Islands.
One has big statues of heads, the other has lots of little red crabs. Christmas Island is certainly not "pristine and untouched" having been both a nuclear testing ground, and now a bird shit mine. Granted, there is some lush rainforest, but anyway... you (hopefully) get the point.
Nice troll. NASA does not do any commercial launches. They are handled by private companies, like Boeing, Arianespace(Commercial arm of ESA), Russian Energia, Sealaunch, et cetera. Publicly funded organisations (NASA, ESA, etc) launch only their own scientific missions (in some cases as joint operations, such as ISS).
If managed properly, this launching facility should be quite safe to the Christmas Island eco-system. Kennedy Space Center is an incredible example of how, when done right, high technology and the environment can thrive. KSC has all sorts of endangered species that live in and around the spaceport. That's not to say that APSC won't completely screw up the island, but if they do, it'll be a complete shame because there's absolutely no excuse.
Hey Bruce, come on over and we'll throw another crab on the launchpad...
-- We don't understand software, and sometimes we don't understand hardware, but we can *see* the blinking lights
Check out this BBC Link
Roll on the increasing debris in the earth's orbit....
Human logic: 1) I can't so you mustn't. 2) I can but you mustn't.
For those with questions;
i) The Aurora rocket being developed will use liquid oxygen/kerosene for all stages so the worst real pollutants will be CO2 and H2O.
ii) The best direction to launch is east.
iii) The project is completely private. The government is simply providing a funding boost to "get it off the ground" in anticipation of job creation/taxes/exports.
iv) See here for more info
I think the people of Christmas Island should vote on whether a station should be build, they have to put up with the noice and possible hearing loss.