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Sun Recants Solaris Source Closure
wfaulk writes "Sun Microsystems, which, a few days ago, announced that they would be re-closing their source code, announced today that they would not be doing so. You can now continue to download Solaris source (where they verify the reversal)."
I wonder if this has anything at all to do with the Microsoft ruling? Probably not, I'm probably just being paranoid, but still the timing is quite a coincidence. But hey, it can't hurt to have Sun open up Solaris Sourecode, so I'm definitely not complaining. Viva la open source! (even though it looks like the license they put this under isn't exactly GPL or BSD).
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Sun rises, source opens. Sun sets, source closes.
This is like watching a robot scurrying around when its two drivers are fighting over the joystick.
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perhaps you should just stop reading slashdot?
hi, i'm sun microsystems! we're like, cool and stuff so we're going to release our source code cuz that's what all the cool people are doing. of course, since our company is so bloated, we'll have to charge like, $75 to just cover the red tape costs.
(a few months later)
hey, what's happening? i thought releasing our code would make us cool and stuff. damn, what are we going to do?
hey! i know, let's say we're going to stop releasing our source so all the open source people will get their panties in a bunch! that's right, and then when we have their attention again, we'll open it back up again and we'll be cool and stuff! wow, we're really smart.
see, bitching and complaining really DOES work
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a funny comment: 1 karma
an insightful comment: 1 karma
a good old-fashioned flame: priceless
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
Activism does make a difference. For every person who writes, emails, calls to complain when a large company pisses him off, there are whiners in the background saying, "It won't make any difference; why should a huge company like X even listen to you?"
Well, twice in a week two of the biggest companies in the world have listened to thousands of us, and done what we asked them to. We threw a collective shit-fit when Micro$oft revealed their Smart Tag plans, and they backed right away. We had another fit when Sun said they'd close the Solaris source, and they've now reversed themselves.
We haven't won the war, and we never will, because it will never end. But dammit, we can make a difference on issues that matter to us. Next time Company Y does something really obnoxious or stupid, remember one of my favorite Frank Herbert quotes: "The most important survival ability for any life form is the ability to change." Successful companies know this, too, and they do listen.
"We all say so, so it must be true!"
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
Nice to see they didn't do a roundabout releasing the OS, however when I think of Solaris I don't think much of its x86 arch. For those who've used it as well would know it's extremely an intense OS not made for anything under about 192mb ram, and a nice processor. It's CDE under x86 is like watching the thickest cement being sucked through a straw. Slow and clunky.
On the Sun platforms it's great, but Sun really layed it on think with enough Java to wake the dead. I like being able to jumpstart machines easily, and wish Dan Farmer and team would have kept their Titan program running over at Fish.com.
All in all it (Solaris) has its purposes, how much of that is on x86 is opinionated, and my opinion is, it shouldn't be
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Reminds me of the sadistic game we would play as little kids, cruelly torturing a poor daisy, pulling at one petal at a time.
In excruciating pain, the poor daisy sat as we innocently tore at it's dress saying..
She loves me!
She loves me not!
She loves me!
She loves me not!
I wonder where we will sit with Solaris when all the petals have fallen out of our hands, drifting slowly to the earth, wafting through the breeze.
Owelp, I'll just install FreeBSD then.
Open source/Free software is most certainly what can be qualified as a "Vocal Minority"; alas it has also, certainly one of it's other attribute "fundamentalism". But, maybe the two are closely related. You need to be really focused on your believes and dismess other believes if you want to make a difference, or if you want to change things.
History has told us, quite often, that it' "Vocal minorities" who change history.
They are hardware manufacturers. They make money selling hardware. Not operating systems. You want Solaris 8? So download it. Sparc and Intel are distros are free. You want to run Solaris on a machine, and need a license? Here, fill out this web page and you'll be considered, 'in the green'.
if they don't make money on selling the OS, why would they care if people had the source code? The only thing that releasing the source code could do is allow people to fix bugs on their own, instead of waiting for the next release.
First off, I think there was more stupidity than gouging involved (approximately, "we thought we'd satisfied the market"), which indicates that Sun is clearly lacking a clue when it comes to Open Source. This isn't news.
The other thing about the Sun situation that I suspect most people don't consider -- they don't necessarily own all the source code to Solaris. A lot of it is probably still Unix System V (which, last time I checked, was owned by Caldera, another notably less-than-clueful company); there are probably restrictions on just what they can do with the code.
I do think in general that Sun is one of those companies that has no particular interest in keeping the source code closed per se, though. I think they made that perfectly evident by making Solaris and StarOffice (which should be their flagship products if software was really a focus for them) free downloads. Sun's problem here is that they're doing a very sloppy job of adapting to the realities of the modern Unix world in which Open Source is a force that simply can't be ignored or written off (I hesitate to say it dominates, since there's a lot of Motif work and such still being done out there in the trenches).
What Sun has just done unfortunately probably doesn't signify anything in the way of a change of heart; they're merely responding to a miscalculation in their market analysis that would have gotten them unnecessary bad press if they'd followed through with it. (Might wake them up, though, you never know...)
/Brian
This actually creates a little bit of a problem, not the reappearance of the source, but it's very existance. (Note to potential flames - I'm very glad sun is doing this, and they deserve both praise and kudos for doing it - if windows had something similar a lot of problems would vanish.) Someone else observed above, this isn't exactly GPL. It might actually be a good idea for open source developers to steer clear of this code:
1) Since sun very definitely still holds the rights to this code, we must be careful not to use their technology in an open source product.
2) Having seen the code, elegant ideas or new concepts are hard to avoid using when designing new software - of course for the sake of open source and fairness to sun we would try, but the odds of complete success aren't good. When the brain has an idea it becomes part of the working knowledge and thoughts of that person. This is why Microsoft doesn't want it's developers looking at GPL code. For once, they actually have a valid point.
Again, this is not a criticism of sun. They have done many things to help open source, OpenOffice heading the list, and the Solaris program is very generous (especially if you happen to have a good internet connection.) The purpose here, however, is to enable users of Solaris to better support and debug their computers, as well as get some debugging of the OS back in the process. So yes it is cool, but for individual geeks who don't have solaris boxes to maintain, it might be better to play cautious when it comes to the Sun source code. From the license:
"Sharing of Covered Code. You may not share
Covered Code with any non-Licensee under any circumstances.
You may only share Covered Code with other Licensees on the
Technology Site, consistent with any rules or guidelines set
forth in this Agreement and the Technology Site."
Probably better to stick to GPL, BSD, or other similar licenses. Too much potential troble here.
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I don't think of Sun as a parasite. They've been supportive of Java under Linux, and more importantly, they're pretty open about letting people look at the Java source, write their own compilers/VMs, etc. And aren't they supporting Ximian or GNOME in general, as part of replacing CDE on Solaris 9?
I can't think of any reason for Sun to GPL Solaris, though. Different market entirely, even though they're shooting for the low end. Even under relatively restrictive licenses, viewable source code is valuable- prevents the kind of single-vendor lock-in nightmares caused by Microsoft, and allows users to customize systems to a greater degree. My school uses Solaris for a number of central servers, with a number of customized apps, and a friend who used to adminster them says being able to access the source would be helpful, if not essential.
Anyway, I've never taken advantage of the "freedoms" under the GPL/BSD licenses. I just think it's a good thing any time a company decides to be more open and responsive with its products, and stops treating its users like the enemy.
My work recently switched to solaris 7, and soon to solaris 8 on our E10Ks. However for some stupid idea they will not buy a new sparccomplier compiler to go with it.
Since solaris went to a 64-bit kernel in solaris 7, I have lost control of debugging kernel-level problems because our old sparc compiler does support the 64-bit kernel. This makes me very upset.
My question is, if I can get my hands on the solaris 8 source code, can I use the symbols and headers in it to cross-compile a gcc to support the 64-bit symbols and functions I need?
Kind of a odd way to do it, but I can afford to get the source code, but not the sparccompiler.
Sun purchased the company that made Star Office (Applixware), probably for several million dollars, and then proceeded to release it under the GPL. I don't know what your definition of "giving back" to the OSS community is, but that certainly fits mine. The open source community instantly gained perhaps the single biggest piece that it was missing for global desktop domination (an extensive office suite).
There are one or two other examples I could think of off the top of my head where Sun has "given back", but the Star Office example should suffice in proving your original source incorrect.
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I don't want to analyze this to death. I just want to say: I appreciate that Sun has chosen to follow this path. This is great news to me, and hopefully it will help Sun in some way.
I know a lot of people say that SUNW is a Big Evil Corporation like MSFT, but I disagree. I really like products such as Java (slow, but the APIs are fairly symmetric, and the JVM is predictable), whereas the stuff Microsoft puts out often is less than satisfactory (who here *likes* Visual Studio? who here uses Visual Studio just to get the job done, but secretly wishes it was called GCC Studio? that's what I thought).
I'm even willing to pay for some of Sun's stuff (e.g. Solaris Media Kit). The horror of it!
P.S. I know gcc is available for win32, so don't flame me about that. Please.
to get people to be aware of their code, and get them to download it.
Perhaps the biggest lesson to be learned here is that you shouldn't blindly do as suggested and break the law because of some sort of concept of freedom. Don't forget that the GPL works BECAUSE of copyright law and BECAUSE you can license software.
As with their other free products like Solaris 8 binaries, the $75 is to cover the media kit if you want the manuals and CD's. If you're concerned about the cost you can just download it for nothing.
Company X will not listen to you, it may listen to someone close to the company who may have overheard a rumor, or someone that sees what the big bosses mis, but Company X has a paid staff that looks into how the company is going to make money. You know that thing called money right? Company X's bottom line is keeping investors happy on returns, not what the consumer wants as most people would like to think.Clearly this is where you sound more like a 15 year old rebel without a cause, as opposed to someone with a clue. This whole article has nothing to do with activism on any scale, so where did you get this rant from?Who threw a collective shit fit. Do you think the people at MS care at this point what someone, especially someone using alternatives to MS, thinks? They just beat the Department of Justice, which paves the way for them to do whatever they like. Surely you'd have to be kidding yourself if you think MS' backing off Smart Tags for now has anything to do with someone bitching about it.
Again your dissillusioned by thoughts of grandeur. I'd like to see one person in this place come up with a fair rebuttal word for word to counter what I've said. I know I have some flaws, but your original post sounds like nothing but someone who's been playing quake too long, and thinking they're some sort of "Cyber Super Hero"I rest my case
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It's such a relief to hear this news. I'm just not myself in the morning until I've had a few cups of coffee and compiled Solaris from the source code.
Agreed. It's an attitude that Apple could learn from. OS X isn't supported on the clones, (which are pretty old anyway) so every machine out there that can run it is a piece of hardware Apple manufactured and shipped with a Mac OS license.
I was ready to sign and fax (!) back the license agreement to download the source, until I read this:
"By signing the Solaris 8 Foundation Source license agreement, you agree that all Internet discussions about the Solaris 8 Foundation Source in which you are involved must be held on the Solaris 8 Foundation Source Discussion Forum."
Seems like a pretty heavy restriction to me. I've never had to restrict my speech to download anything. What if I'm participating in a discussion on a newsgroup about kernels, and then Sun's kernel comes up. "Oh, I'm sorry, but I can only discuss that on Sun's discussion forum. Sorry." Fuck that.
LS
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
Must be out in boston then, eh?
I see a lot of people whining about the source is not really open. That is true. There are restriction so you cannot distribute the source or reveal details. But it is not Sun's fault - they cannot make it open source because of third-party embedded source. But if you are a Solaris developer it is worth downloading the source. I did that and have no intentions on compiling it or even fixing bugs (I leave that to Sun), but it still helped me a lot in tracking down a really tough bug in my own software.
The reason more people have not downloaded the solaris source is simple:
you have to fax in a signature to do it.
that involves actual paper, and the kind of people who would read the solaris source wouldn't naturally take the time.
mail-in rebates are a way of capitalizing on this kind of stuff.
What a lot of people forget - and I'm surprised that more people don't pick up on this - is that EULAs are techincally illegal. The law states implicitly that a contract will be judged illegal if a reasonable man in a reasonable state of mind would not sign that contract given reasonable conditions. What all this means is basically this: The contract must be reasonable. If it is not, it is illegal and cannot be used as grounds for prosecution.
"A few atoms won't even light a match" - Dr Jones, 1933
Earlier someone complained about the $75.00 cost, which goes to show how pervasive ADD is in this readership. Learn to follow through to the end of the agreements spaz boy. The $75 fee is if they actually ship you media, you can download it for free. Now you do have to receive the key to the super secret download url by receiving a letter at your residence or business. Which means you get to give them your address and information. Not so bad, but I read this line and thought twice about abstaining on my first amendment rights:
" By signing the Solaris 8 Foundation Source license agreement, you agree that all Internet discussions about the Solaris 8 Foundation Source in which you are involved must be held on the Solaris 8 Foundation Source Discussion Forum. You will receive information about how to participate in this forum along with a special serial number that will enable you to access the forum once you download the product. The number will appear on your download receipt page under the heading "Serial Number." "
Ok let's review, it's free but I have to give you all my personal info and you can do what you want with it. So far not a bad deal. Now, you also want me to give up all my rights regarding talking about your product? Sure that sounds great, how about outside the internet. What if my friend who I told it about it then posts it to the internet? Is that contributory?? one last bit, here is a nice notice towards the end:
PLEASE NOTE: IF YOU ARE ORDERING A MEDIA KIT BEFORE DECEMBER 11. YOU MAY SUBMIT YOUR ORDER TODAY BUT THE PRODUCT WILL NOT SHIP UNTIL AFTER DECEMBER 11.
If you can't copyright something, you can't control what other people do with it. The GPL is not about public domain, it is about ensuring freedom the indefinite future, through software licensing. Without copyright, the GPL would be without any basis in law.