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KIllustrator Changes Name to Kontour
Kelmar writes "I found this story on The Register about how KIllustrator is changing it's name to Kontour. Looks like that is not the worst of the problems though. The law firm that originally sent the notice is also asking for $2000 just for sending the letter. Apparently they did this without the consent of Adobe, who is also not too happy about the tone of the letter."
So the lawyer is acting not on behalf of Adobe, but on behalf of the public. This generally is reasonable (it shifts the burden of enforcing laws from the tax payer to special organizations which are not supposed to do this for financial gain). However, as always, the system can be abused (and you can count on a lawyer to find the most efficient way to abuse it).
Stephan
And the German law firm now wants to be paid $2,000 for the privilige of the legal equivalent of "First Post"!
I say the firm should be modded down.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Adobe would probably do well to give these developers $2000 to pay off the lawyers; it's not like it's a lot of money for them, and it would be a great PR move.
They probably ought to be able the sue the law firm, too. If what the firm did (sending such a letter to a private citizen about a non-profit product) was kind of shady, and it soiled Adobe's good name, I'd expect them to be able to sue. If nothing else, they probably used Adobe's trademark to deny Adobe business while making a profit themselves.
I actually like it better and it's original (I hope
Keep up the great work guys!
Co-founder and designer at Music Nearby: http://musicnearby.com
Not the first time such a thing has happened. See Apple, Carl Sagan settle suit over names.
- Sam Ruby
That's what's scary about this. It's a 3rd party suit. The law firm has no connections to Adobe whatsoever, from what I understand. They simply said, "hey, look, this probably infringes," and they send a letter and say "you gotta change it, and BTW, you owe us money now." Adobe never hired them, and they get no benefit (other than a possibly infringing name being removed).
:)
Essentially, it's legalized vigilant--vigalantee--er... add "ism" to "vigilantee."
While I do not advocate taking human life in general, or in particular, I do not think killing all of the lawyers would be a service. They are an unfortunate necessity if we are to have a society governed by laws rather than people/cult images.
... merely the names and faces of those oppressing the public, stripping us of our freedoms, and actively inhibiting technological and social progress.
... severely. ]
However, killing each and every Intellectual Property lawyer (of which these "patent" attourneys are a part) would be a tremendous service to humankind in general. Then again, putting them out of business by repealing said laws would have the same effect and be much more socially acceptable.
Unfortunately, in a world with governments by, of, and for the corporations things probably won't change until some sort of bloody revolution does take place (possibly resulting in the aforementioned bloodbath). Alas, even then nothing of substance will have changed
So, in the end, killing all, or even some, of the lawyers will have no effect, other than making a whole hell of a lot of us feel a whole hell of a lot better. Reason enough, perhaps.
[ For the humor impaired, the preceeding was meant toung in cheak, as humor. If it offended all you law-types, so much the better. If it encouraged you to go out and take human life, please go get some psychological health before you hurt yourself or anyone else. Unless, of course, you are an "intellectual property" attourney, in which case you are encouraged to hurt yourself
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
It is ironic that there exists a country whose civil law is even more screwed up than that of the United States (I lived in Germany for several years and was thankfully unaware of this particular protection racket), something I would have found unlikely after reading about the recent FBI detainment of a Russian software engineer at the behest of Adobe for making public the woefully inadeqaute state of their much-touted PDF copy protection scheme.
This begs the question, though, namely, can the German firm in question be sued for their unilateral actions by Adobe, for (perhaps irreperably) harming Adobe's reputation among libre software users (who number in the tens of millions at this point). Can they be sued in Germany for their actions? How about the United States? And would the suit hold up, given how much Adobe's own actions against those who expose consumer fraud on their part (and yes, the content providors are "consumers" of their flawed copy protection schemes in a very real sense, and are IMHO being sold a bill of goods fraudulantly) harms their reputation among reasonably well informed IT professionals both inside and outside of the Free Software Community?
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Why oh why won't Microsoft release a drawing program called Billustrator
Now that would be a long, drawn out court battle.
Trolling is a art,
You know, IntelliNaming and ActiveConventions are worse.
--
People operating computers in environments other than coldrooms, overclockers, and owners of multiprocessor systems are particularly cautioned.
On the other hand, people who are capable of telling the difference between a car and a software application are encouraged to use Kontour, taking advantage of its superior price-performance.
MOO;IANAL.
MOO;IANAL.
There used to be a picture linked here.
So at the same time that I learn I should be forgiving Adobe for a misdeed attributed to them that they (probably) didn't do, I learn of a new one that they did.
O, well. I don't have to revise my opinions of them, merely the reasons. Sigh. I'd really rather that they would act honorably, and justify a good opinion. Much rather.
OTOH, if they were so disapproving of what was done, why was there no public statement in support of Dr. Sattler? So I don't think that I can actually assume that they really disapporved of it, merely of the response that it got.
I suspect that Adobe's evaluation was more along the lines of "That was ill-considered. Pick your targets more carefully from now on." At least that would be consistent with the public evidence.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
The law firm used their name. They have been silent about this. They have not, so far as I have heard, issued any public statement saying that they disapprove of the action or of the process.
And I have no evidence that the law firm acted without their general approval. Merely that it could have. And the Register has said that Adobe disapproved or something (the bad PR?) about the case.
Appearantly the law firm acted in a vile, repulsive, extortionist, and legal manner, given German law. There is probably no legal recourse that Dr. Sattler, or anyone else, except possibly Adobe, have. And I doubt that Adobe would bother, since they haven't even bothered with a public statement of disapproval.
I don't think the action was against the desires of Adobe. I think they just wish people would be quiet about it. And given the balence of the evidence, I suspect that the law firm had at least a tacit understanding with Adobe that allowed them to use Adobe's name in such an action.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Nope, sorry KDE and esp KIllustrator is essentially a German production (the master development servers are hosted in Germany) and Dr Uwe Satler works at a German University (Magdeburg). It's only Adobe who are US owned and even they have registered offices in Germany, so US law dossn't apply (unfortunatley in this case, but they don't recognise software patents in Germany [yet] so it's not all bad)
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Actually, I like the name Kontour. It's pretty clever, like Konqueror and Krayon. Also, the K convention is a good thing - makes KDE applications instantly recognizable as KDE apps, and gets stuck in people's minds.
Now that Adobe's (legitimate) concerns have been addressed, I hope the KDE crew tells those nosy, blood-sucking lawyers to stick it!
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
In my way of thinking, this makes the actions of the German law firm even lame. In what manner was the law firm protecting the public from purchasing the wrong thing? I suppose if Germany is one of those countries where there is metered internet access, but if it's 30 DM per month unlimited, what exactly is the public risk?
It also seems to be a bit of a vigilante type system. Why not let the goverment do this, with an impartial trying of fact? I assume that were the University to refuse to pay (or the Dr.) that the law firm would go to court. I then assume that it is nearly impossible to get a court to disagree with the law firm. At least, in the US, that's the way it would work.
(BTW, I'm a USian. This is my analysis of your laws. If anyone reads this and says "fuck you, we do things our own way" I reply "fuck you, you certainly don't shut your yap and avoid criticizing our laws". It's a two way street. Let's face it, the laws in EVERY country are fucked up.)
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Typically (again, blanket reminder, from a US perspective unless otherwise stated) private lawsuits are decided by impartial tryers of fact: judges. In this case, it seems (at least as far as German law has been explained in this and other discussions) that the law firm can, at its own discretion, decide who must pay for what. Further, the 'what' is damage and confusion to the public.
In one sense: something happened. In most instances in US law, something has to happen. Until recently, 'potential' problems aren't or weren't actionable. It would certainly help the case (at least my opinion of it, not necessarily the legal justification of it) if they could find one person who had suffered measurable harm from the confusing name. Barring that, I would like to know of a plausible situation where one person COULD come to harm (physical or monetary) owing to the confusion.
Were there a Corel Killustrator for $99.95, I could see it. Not a freely downloadable KDE/Linux Killustrator.
Perhaps this is the trick that is keeping me from accepting what you are saying. I was under the impression from the earlier post that German companies (or their representatives) could undertake actions like this for the "public good". If that is the case, then while a line between public and private concerns is important, it matters not, as this issue is a public one. Given that it is a public issue, a public forum should be the one to decide it (and that is a gut, emotional response. I'm sure that had I paid attention when reading Locke, et al. that I could offer a more reasoned response. But from my POV, it just makes sense.)
Ahh, found the quote from the earlier post:
Then let the public pay. I didn't pick those attorneys to protect me (okay, yeah, I'm in the US, but let's pretend I'm a German citizen).
I'm sure that this issue (and the laws upon which it hinges) are more in depth than presented here. I'm also quite sure that owing to differences in national mindset, I might never fully comprehend the rationale behind them.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
They are suing a German, in Germany over an alleged infringement of a German trademark.
Best Slashdot Co
In the US, it's much easyer. There Adobe simply sicks the goons to haul off any dissidents ass to jail, and that's it. But hey, they'll probably claim it wasn't done on their initiative either... I only wonder why the Russian ambassy didn't protest louder against this obvious violation of the Human Rights of one of their citizens.
They would also do well to pay off Dmitry Sklyarov's bail so that he can get back to his democratic home country...
I hope I'm not the only one that would like to contribute something towards that $2k.
Someone should post an address for donations.
My cat can eat a whole watermelon
'Nuff said.
When informed of the suit, Dr. Sattler said he would then change the name to "KItsADamnIllustrationProgram,Alright?"
Didn't we hear about the name change in Last Night's Slashback?
Gnot to gnitpick, but the gnext gnaming convention is gno gnicer...
Word(TM). Windows(TM) doesn't Exchange(TM) any letters in the names of their Works(TM). They Access(TM) a Word(TM) directly out of the dictionary sitting on the Bookshelf(TM) in their Office(TM). They've made a lot of Money(TM) doing that, and their Outlook(TM) for the future is even better. A lot better than the Outlook(TM) for Me(TM), anyway.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
on the Internet.
This reminds me of the "enterprising young men" in New York City who come up to cars stopped at traffic lights and begin washing the windows, then obstruct the car and demand payment for services rendered.
Seriously, if I were Adobe I'd retain a different German law firm to sue these guys for "endangering Adobe's good name."
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
There's an excellent update on the Reg explaining the concept of these unsolicited cease and desist letters, incl. the German legal stance on them. Check it out.
There is a car called the Ford Contour. Any lawyers care to comment on the implications of Kontour vs Contour? Any risk of a lawsuit?
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
---
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
It's an interesting automotive story. Mondeo was initially intended as a "world car" - that would be designed centrally for the Euro, US, Latin American, Asian, etc. markets instead of separately. Ford invested over $1B in this effort, but although Mondeo has been successful in the Euro market, Contour (and Mercury Mystique) never took off in the US. They had to rework it significantly to accommodate Americans' preferences (big-ass cupholders, auto transmission) and so the economies of scale never happened in the way that Ford expected.
sulli
RTFJ.
Could they be any more short sighted? They might collect the $2K, but if Adobe really doesn't like their tone and how they handled/are handling this, they'll probably be cut loose. Short term gain, long term loss. They'll probably just continue to harass people on behalf of their other accounts.
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
Gnot to gnitpick, but the gnext gnaming convention is gno gnicer...
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
What a Kweer name. I don't think that a naming Konvention like that is going to help them make in roads into the marketplace.
If you didn't read about this earlier, you might want to check out these /. stories about the Adobe vs. KIllustator name conflict.
-Kraft
-Kraft
Live and let live
jeez - those lawyers take time out of their busy schedules to write a nice letter helpfully explaining a possible copyright problem that is none of their business but fully within the scope of German law and now nobody wants to pay them for their trouble!?!? What has this world come to?
Do you have any idea how much time and effort it must have taken for those lawyers to randmonly overhear someone mention the name "Killustrator" down at the Kaffeehaus and write a couple of letters? Wow...lawyerin' is a tough gig! No wonder people love them so much
Perhaps if instead of emailing these cannibalistic lawyers who just want to eat people, we could email their clients and let them know how unhappy we are that they have chosen such a tyrannical firm. I'm sure if it came to dropping their demands or losing one of their real clients, they would make a more sensible choice.
Even Slashdot wants to hide some things
So I guess while we were savaging Adobe for this attack, Adobe had nothing to do with it all along. Question is, are there analogues to this strange legal quirk in other countries (like the US?) Are there good reasons to end the practice in Germany, and if so, is anyone trying to do so?
Imagine, shortening the name instead of changing it.... "killus"....
===> An eye for an eye makes everyone blind - MG
From the article: "It seems that in Germany law firms can write cease and desist letters to businesses they think are infringing another company's trademarks, without being employed by the latter, and demand payment from the company on the receiving end of the letter. Apparently some law firms make a good living at this." Not paying up is the only way to stop this business. The university shouldnt pay a dime. Next thing we know even /. is going to be asked for me from some law firm just for sending a letter...
No. Abmahnungen (cease-and-desist letters) can be sent for various reasons, including trademark infringement.
It is also possible to send such letters on behalf of the public, to enforce consumer protection laws, but this can be done only by organizations that are registered as consumer protection organizations, and they only get registered if they're non-profit (I think). Most law firms are however working for profit, and thus cannot sue on behalf of the public.
(There has been a case recently where a "consumer protection organization" has lost their right to sue because they were also doing business for profit. Read this article (german) if you're interested.)
Also, a lawyer can't just act on behalf of someone who is not their client.
It is however possible - and I guess that's what Adobe did - to hire a law firm to "protect your trademarks", and them let them do so on their own, without asking you about each and every case.
Disclaimer: I am German, and live in Germany, but IANAL.
Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)