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Shuttle Radar Topography Mission Data

SubtleNuance writes: "This story on Canada.com describes the mission and results of NASA's recent flight to map Earth. The Shuttle trip has provided the most detailed 3D photos of Earth ever released." Some of the images are just astounding. Too bad most of the data isn't available yet.

97 comments

  1. Simulations of War ...No it's Tomahawk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read from Janes Defense: Space mission yields navigation 'breakthrough' BRYAN BENDER JDW Bureau Chief Washington DC The US Navy (USN) plans to equip its Tactical Tomahawk land attack cruise missile with what it expects to be a "breakthrough" weapons navigation system that utilises detailed digital terrain data collected during a recent Space Shuttle mission to improve accuracy and reliability. The USN has allocated nearly $20 million over the next three years for the "rapid introduction" into the Tactical Tomahawk missile of Precision Terrain-Aided Navigation (PTAN), which provides a "compelling opportunity to reap a large technology breakthrough for accurate navigation", according to navy documents. Officials have rated the introduction of the PTAN system into Tactical Tomahawk, currently under development by Raytheon for an initial operational capability in 2003, as the programme's "first priority technology improvement", according to the documents. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration's (NASA's) 11-day Shuttle Radar Topography Mission last year aboard the Space Shuttle Endeavor was sponsored by the Department of Defense and intended to provide detailed digital terrain data for use in, among other disciplines, precision weapons targeting (Jane's Defence Weekly 8 September 1999). Using two radar systems, the shuttle crew mapped 80% of the earth's land surface, between 60 north and 56 south latitude, at a resolution of 30m. This new data, according to the documents, "enables the rapid development of high-resolution route maps that will allow for development of automatic route planning tools for air-vehicle navigation". Coupling the digital route maps with precision radar altimeters will allow airborne platforms to accurately navigate to a pre-planned target area. According to a senior USN official, the PTAN will complement the Tomahawk's current navigation system, consisting of a global positioning system (GPS) receiver, an inertial navigation system and a Digital Scene Mapping and Correlation camera, which relies on terrain images with much less resolution than the database recently generated by NASA. The USN believes the PTAN enhancement is necessary in the face of new jamming techniques that can block or degrade the highly accurate GPS satellite navigation signals. "This new capability overcomes the GPS jamming and spoofing threats that are anticipated to emerge in the near term." According to the navy, $2 million will be spent on the effort for the rest of this year, $11 million in Fiscal Year 2001 (FY01) and $6.2 million in FY02. The service intends to spend an additional $21 million in FY03 through FY05. The USN hopes to conduct the first test of the PTAN system on a missile surrogate in FY03.

  2. I modded this as troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This post is an adequacy.org post, and the copious links to unrelated, self-aggrandizing articles with bizzarro articles stating how the best astronauts were gay, and how pornography is a liberal plot.

    Please, other moderators, check the links before you mod.

  3. NASA radar finds a rock doing something strange by maqbroom · · Score: 1
    Original Caption Released with Image:

    This dramatic view looks west along the Cucharas River Canyon in Colorado toward the 4,152 meter (13,623 ft) high Spanish Peaks, in the foothills of the Sangre De Cristo Mountains. The Peaks are the remnants of a 20-million year old volcano. Rising 2,100 meters (7,000 ft) above the plains to the east, these igneous rock formations with intrusions of eroded sedimentary rock historically served as guiding landmarks for travelers on the Mountain Branch of the Santa Fe Trail.

    The above paragraph is the best possible argument for NASA to hire more earth scientists when they do earth science, such as the Shuttle Radar Topography Mission. They casually mention a whacking big mystery--sedimentary rocks seen intruding igneous rocks--and then leave us hanging. How did those sedimentary rocks do that?

    Usually, sediments stack themselves on top of what's already there, instead of sticking themselves into the existing rock in an intrusive manner. Sediment becomes a candidate for rockhood when the force moving it along goes away. The wind falls, the streams slow down, the ocean dries up. Mineral grains lie down and rise no more.

    So if these sediments really got a volcano to bend over and be intruded, they were motivated by an unknown geologic force. Was it lust? Lust between consenting rock bodies has not been found to leave a distinguishable trace. But rock bodies can radiate sex appeal. French trappers saw mountains and canyons as giant erotic apparitions, and gave their lovesick hallucinations names which remain French because it won't do to translate them on public road signs. Perhaps these sediments saw the firm, youthful Spanish Peaks in the same rosy light--they look pretty good in rosy light, I can tell you--and before you knew it, innocence had become experienced. These unique sedimentary rocks deserve further study, for which I offer my services to NASA.

    maqbroom

    geologist

    Note: They're talking about the remarkable dikes which tower over Colorado state highway 12 south of La Veta. Although these rocks look just like sedimentary rocks (vertical sheets and stacks of sheets), they're of igneous origin. As the Spanish Peaks volcano grew in size 20 million years ago, the buoyant magma body below was covered by cubic miles of rock. The magma had not changed its elevation relative to sea level, but the deeper burial now made it more buoyant than when it first arrived near the surface. It was like a beach ball forced under water--the magma would return to its level, rising into the volcanic pile. The volcano, made of loose material and lava flows, cracked in a star pattern--as big, composite round things do when something else big and roundish intrudes it from below. Molten rock followed the cracks, freezing into vertical sheets. That's the impressive rock walls you see over the highway. Worth a side trip.

    For a topographic map, go to http://www.topozone.com and enter La Veta, CO on their "Get a Map" page. Choose the "large" map format, and click on the arrow pointing south to see the highway route around the Spanish Peaks.

  4. Re:wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just LOVE vladinator's site! Especially the "fash" section, where I learned to cut the bottom off of an old shirt to use as a hair enhancement! Oh, and the "dance party" photos!

    Of course, don't forget to read vladinator's emails! Here you will discover how truly difficult it is to decide what to do on the weekends... have a pizza party? A fash party? Go to the mall with all of your friends? Have a sleepover and call boys on the phone?

    In short, if you haven't checked out vladinator's site, you don't know what you're missing!

  5. Re:Resolution? just a note by xXgeneric+nicknameXx · · Score: 0

    if you look a little more carefully you will see that all but one blank spot (central/north carolina) are at the intersections of the bright green (2 pass) lines...its just the way the SRTM orbited. you can also see a tiny unscanned point on the coast of surinam(?).

    --

    My cat's breath smells like cat food.--R. Wiggums

  6. Re:wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just LOVE vladinator's site! Especially the "fash" section, where I learned to cut the bottom off of an old shirt to use as a hair enhancement! Oh, and the "dance party" photos!

    Of course, don't forget to read vladinator's emails! Here you will discover how truly difficult it is to decide what to do on the weekends... have a pizza party? A fash party? Go to the mall with all of your friends? Have a sleepover and call boys on the phone?

    In short, if you haven't checked out vladinator's site, you don't know what you're missing!

  7. Re:Resolution? Landsat? by NullPointer · · Score: 1

    is *completely* irrelevant

    Certainly the DEM could have a higher spatial resolution, but the images that were referenced in the article are all 30m Landsat. I was simply pointing out (and obviously didn't do it well) that the demo data everyone was seeing in the references was no better than the lowest resolution data used to create the pretty pictures.

    However, the data products page (http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/dataproducts.html) indicates that, "the final released SRTM DEM will be at 30 meters for the U.S. and at 90 meters for the rest of the world." The SRTM interferometer may be capable of a higher resolution, but those of us in the public sector won't be seeing that data anytime soon...

    --
    NULL
  8. New Shuttle Data ...... Real Uses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From Jane's Defense Weekly .... this much improve topo data will form the basis of a new advance terrain guidance for the Tactical Tomahawk Cruise missile under development. This will bypass the need for the current GPS guidance used which are susceptible to jamming.

  9. Re:Resolution? by coldfire · · Score: 1

    You were curious what the resoultion was so I'm posting a link http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/datafinaldescriptions .html "The absolute horizontal accuracy (90% Circular Error) is 20 meters. The absolute vertical accuracy (90% Linear Error) is 16 meters. "

  10. Re:wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just LOVE vladinator's site! Especially the "fash" section, where I learned to cut the bottom off of an old shirt to use as a hair enhancement! Oh, and the "dance party" photos!

    Of course, don't forget to read vladinator's emails! Here you will discover how truly difficult it is to decide what to do on the weekends... have a pizza party? A fash party? Go to the mall with all of your friends? Have a sleepover and call boys on the phone?

    In short, if you haven't checked out vladinator's site, you don't know what you're missing!

  11. Re:Better link by insane.idoru · · Score: 1

    Very cool site - thx, DESADE. They have a whole bunch of great in-depth sites on different news topics, like the stem cell thing.

    The topography pictures are beautiful. I'm wondering if NASA couldn't sell prints to make a little extra cash? I would love to hang an 8x10 of the smog cloud above L.A. on my wall...

  12. Contact your congresscritter by Zalgon+26+McGee · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Yet another reason to contact your congressman: ensure they vote for NASA appropriations.

    They aren't perfect, and more support for private enterprise in space is needed, but NASA is worthy of support.

    --

    ---

    Book(n): Utensil used to pass time while waiting for the TV repairman

    1. Re:Contact your congresscritter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Dear Congressperson X:

      It appears that I have too much money! Would you please take some of it away from me and use it to make more super-cool pictures?

    2. Re:Contact your congresscritter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes, what the fuck else would you do with your money? eat every day at mcblondalds, wear nike && tommy kilfilger clothes, drive an SUV (that you replace every 2.2 years) and spray chemicals on your lawn?

      There called priorities - what the fuck is your issue with doing something outside of serving yourself?

    3. Re:Contact your congresscritter by Zalgon+26+McGee · · Score: 1

      Look, they're gonna piss away your money anyways - might as well get something useful out of it.

      --

      ---

      Book(n): Utensil used to pass time while waiting for the TV repairman

  13. Amazing! by ConsumedByTV · · Score: 2

    With maps like this you could do some very very real full scale simulations of war.

    Perhaps the brass might see that all war is futile.

    --


    "Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
    1. Re:Amazing! by onepoint · · Score: 1

      or we can import it certain games to make bombing runs over xyz. I got to admit, the view of Tokyo was way cool.
      ONEPOINT

      --
      if you see me, smile and say hello.
    2. Re:Amazing! by NullPointer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      With maps like this you could do some very very real full scale simulations of war.

      Actually, DOD did just that when US troops were sent to Bosnia. I was working on the commercial development of IFSAR at the time and got to see some of the results. The AirForce did some pretty cool virtual terrain demos for bomb-run training. Looks like TEC still has some images out there: http://www.tec.army.mil/ctis/ctis_tec/ifsare.html

      --
      NULL
    3. Re:Amazing! by SEWilco · · Score: 1

      The U.S. Department of Defense was the major sponsor of the project. The data will be used for simulations and real war. (I could say "real world" war, but "world war" has a certain meaning...)

  14. Resolution? by Sawbones · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Other than "The map is going to be 100-times better than any other global map that we have," in the article there is no mention of how fine of detail the map goes into. Is it better than the 1 meter resolution of the (now defunct *sigh*) Terraserver?

    Still, cool tech.

    --

    Ad in classifieds: Pandora's Box (no box) $5
    1. Re:Resolution? by tstock · · Score: 0

      "We could tell you, but then we would have to kill you."

    2. Re:Resolution? by NullPointer · · Score: 2, Informative

      Since Landsat (the image that is overlaid on the radar data) is typically 30m, these data sets won't be any better than that. If I recall, the shuttle X-band only did 100m DEM post spacing (or maybe it was 150m) with a vertical RMS in the 20m range, er, something like that.

      There are at least two commercial terrain mapping radar systems out there that can do much better. Star3i (formerly IFSARE) is now operated by Intermap (www.intermap.ca) and does 2.5m postings (Intermap may claim it does better, but I don't believe it). And, there is a new system that is currently being calibrated and may be producing data soon. In addition to X-band, GeoSAR has a P-band capability to "see" through trees, very cool (www.geosar.com).

      --
      NULL
    3. Re:Resolution? by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 2

      I don't think the Terraserver was able to return 3d surveys, though.

      Dancin Santa

    4. Re:Resolution? by NullPointer · · Score: 1

      Oops, forgot to mention that JPL has something called TOPSAR that they've used for demo purposes. It is essentially the same thing as what flew on the shuttle but is mounted in a DC-8, bunches of images are here http://southport.jpl.nasa.gov/airsar/topsar/

      --
      NULL
    5. Re:Resolution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    6. Re:Resolution? by leeward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Terraserver, and other systems that produce resolutions on the order of 1 meter, are photographic systems. SRTM is an imaging radar system, with resolution of 20-30 meters. And the key part of the phrase in your quote is "better than any global map".

      The primary job of SRTM was to generate a uniform global topographic map. There are other radar systems, such as geosar, which can get better resolution. But that is because they are mounted on airplanes, and are therefore flying much closer to their target. But you are unlikely see a global map from geosar, or any other airborne radar, because, well, the earth is just too big to cover it all in an airplane. And just trying flying a US military imaging radar on an airplane over China! They get grumpy enough about the spy planes flying off their coast. And yet SRTM made a world wide map in a single 10 day mission (except somehow they missed Area 51 - don't know how that happened).

      And the value of a uniform map is that there are maps around from literally hundreds of data sources, but maps of two different areas, made with two different data sets, are difficult to compare accurately without a uniform baseline to compare them against. SRTM data is intended to be that baseline.

      And finally, an advantages of radar data over photographic data is that it is difficult to get accurate topographic data from optical data. Also, you are at the mercy of the weather when obtaining photo data. The radar can see through clouds just fine.

  15. Better link by DESADE · · Score: 4, Informative
  16. hmmmm... by eoPh · · Score: 0

    hi-rez map of the earth... that's gonna be one book that WON'T fit on your coffee table...

  17. What's the message? by fetta · · Score: 1

    I remember reading somewhere a claim that the U.S. once released satellite photos of some geographic features (underground water channels?) as a way to let the Soviets know how good the U.S. surveillence really was. The message: "We know where your missiles are."

    I wonder if there is some message here? Isn't this the kind of data that can be useful for programming cruise missiles and such?

    Not to sound too paranoid or anything :-}

    --
    ** The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not reflect those of my employers - past, present, or future**
    1. Re:What's the message? by leeward · · Score: 1

      No need to sound paranoid. In fact, major funding for this mission was provided by NIMA, primarily for the purpose of generating maps for cruise missiles. However, JPL (who ran the mission) managed to get the condition that somewhat lower resolution data would be released to researchers. Actually, I believe US data will be released at full resolution, because high resolution is already available anyway.

      Leeward - In mission control, Houston, for the SRTM mission (but not now a NASA employee).

  18. Hey! by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 0

    I can see my house from here!

    No, not really. But I can see the reindeer pen.

    Dancin Santa

  19. AYB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When did AYBABTU stop being cool?

    1. Re:AYB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When people realised Zero Wing was a shite game.

  20. Re:Last Post!!! by hivolt · · Score: 0

    k4n++ j00 33n sp311 37337 h4xx0rs r1+3?

  21. Re:Resolution? just a note by onepoint · · Score: 2, Interesting

    on the page http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/datatimeline.html
    you'll see the resolution stats from 30m to 1 km

    and a side note
    http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/datacoverage.html Nasa states "Land area missed: 50,000 km2 (all in US)"

    ONEPOINT

    --
    if you see me, smile and say hello.
  22. Half empty glasses by Argy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    > Too bad most of the data isn't available yet.

    Is there a rule for Slashdot editors that their comments about good news have to be counter-balancingly negative?

    Considering that pilots and guided missiles may make life-and-death decisions based on this data, taking time to make sure it's accurate and properly processed seems like a good idea. If you have an urgent need, I suppose you could ask for 15,000 CDs of raw data, but all the crunched data should be available by the end of 2002.

    1. Re:Half empty glasses by snake_dad · · Score: 1
      guided missiles may make life-and-death decisions based on this data

      Well, if my life is concerned in those decisions I'd rather see that missile fly into a mountain :)

      --
      karma capped .sig seeking available Slashdot poster for long-term relationship.
    2. Re:Half empty glasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that pilots and guided missiles may make life-and-death decisions based on this data

      Whats really interesting is that you are interested in the military capability/function of these maps. Frankly, I hope any war-plane pilot crashes and dies - fucking war-mongers anyway... I dont care WHOs side they are on...

      No one ever wins in war.

    3. Re:Half empty glasses by Argy · · Score: 2

      I'm not particularly interested in the military function, but the article pointed out that "more than 160 military and intelligence systems will use the digital terrain-elevation data." Personally, I'm more apt to use it to chart elevation maps for trail marathons, but I doubt that's why the government shelled out the moola for this project. :-) I'm sure it will aid scientific research, as well as see some entertianment uses, but I doubt it would have been undertaken without a military purpose.

  23. Oh boy... we /.ed NASA! by snake_dad · · Score: 1
    Internal Server Error

    The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.

    Please contact the server administrator, httpd@www-pdsimage.JPL.NASA.GOV and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.

    --
    karma capped .sig seeking available Slashdot poster for long-term relationship.
  24. Waaaaaiiiiiiittttttt........ by TheQuantumShift · · Score: 2, Funny

    NASA results on Canada.Com? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.........

    --

    Shift happens. Fire it up.
    1. Re:Waaaaaiiiiiiittttttt........ by Veritan+Drelor · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Speaking of NASA and Canada... A couple of years ago, NASA refused to launch a Canadian firm's imaging satellite specifically because it was more advanced than its American counterparts (no insult intended). As I recall, they negotiated with the Chinese to get the thing into orbit...... Oh, and on another note, resolutions better than 1 m are definitely out there. Whatever images have been released, I imagine an order of magnitude superior resolution has been achieved, but that the technology is kept secret.

  25. Re:Resolution? just a note by inio · · Score: 1
    and a side note
    http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/datacoverage.html Nasa states "Land area missed: 50,000 km2 (all in US)"

    Thats an interesting figure. looking at the map you can see where this "missed land" is:
    http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/images/bin/srtm_covma p_hi.jpg
    Note how even the coverage everywhere else is, yet theres holes over the US. Maybe I'm paranoid but I smell a "don't scan these 6 spots" request from the [insert favorite government TLA here].
  26. Dry? nah... by Ulwarth · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I love it:

    "Target Name: Earth
    Is a satellite of: Sol (our Sun)"

  27. Hello, Joshua... by Rimbo · · Score: 2
    Perhaps the brass might see that all war is futile.

    Good evening Professor Falken
    A strange game
    It seems the only way to win is not to play
    How about a nice game of chess?

  28. as a plugin for flight simulators by dario_moreno · · Score: 1

    hopefully this will enable flight simulators to render any spot on the planet, by online access to the database for instance.

    --
    Google passes Turing test : see my journal
  29. They did better with Mars by alewando · · Score: 4, Offtopic

    It's odd that NASA is only now getting around to do with the Earth what they've been doing with Mars for years. (Follow that link for the pretty pictures, if nothing else.

    From 1998 to 1999, the Mars Global Surveyor made some 27 million topographical measurements of the red planet. With an average accuracy of 13 meters and sometimes as good as 2 meters. That's not much more than my height.

    Of course, having that precision on Earth would be more difficult with our thicker atmosphere and would raise profound privacy issues. On the other hand, government spy satellites probably routinely attain that precision without anyone's batting an eyelash. Maybe it's just as well that a civilian agency get in on the action too.

    1. Re:They did better with Mars by NullPointer · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, the original SRTM was flown back in 1994 (SIR-C and X-SAR) in an effort to update the military's DEMs. I never did hear what happened to that data (probably secret at the time). You can read a bit about it here:

      http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/spareparts.html

      --
      NULL
    2. Re:They did better with Mars by leeward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Umm... I designed and built some of the hardware for SIR-C (and also SRTM). There was absolutely no military connection to SIR-C. And X-SAR was built by the European space agencies, primarily the Italians on the antenna, and the Germans on the digital hardware, and they also had no military connection. The US military only got involved in SRTM after they saw how well the SIR-C radar worked, and after some of the SIR-C folks went looking for money to upgrade SIR-C to SRTM.

      SIR-C did not make topographic maps, except for one or two special tests using a technique called "repeat pass interferometry", because it did not have the outboard antenna on the 60M mast that SRTM had, and which gave SRTM its "stereo vision". And SIR-C only imaged a few small strips of the earth, each specifically requested by a scientist for some research purpose, or of course a few strips taken for PR purposes. SIR-C did not attempt to make a global map. This data is in the hands of the scientists involved, who supposedly continue to turn out papers based on the data. Also, SIR-C was conceived as a technology test experiment (and is also referred to as SRL - Space Radar Laboratory), used to test a variety of new radar technologies to see how well they worked from a spacebased platform.

    3. Re:They did better with Mars by leeward · · Score: 1

      Notice that is an average vertical accuracy of 13 meters. But the horizontal accuracy is one one point every 60 kilometers. You are not going to get a very detailed map out of that!

      However, the Magellan spacecraft had made somewhat detailed radar images of Venus long before SRTM flew, though not topographic maps, and not to nearly the resolution and accuracy of SRTM.

    4. Re:They did better with Mars by NullPointer · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm certainly not remembering things very well, I'm sure you are correct. I was contracted to JPL and ERIM to develop software using TOPSAR data in preparation for IFSAR (a DARPA project). Some of the people at JPL involved with IFSAR were also working on SIR-C. From where I sat everything appeared to be either for the military or from the military.

      --
      NULL
    5. Re:They did better with Mars by MarkMac · · Score: 1

      Also consider the *enormous* volume of data required just by doubling the resolution - and of course you also need nearly twice as much data to obtain the overlapping imagery (at the correct angles). While it is true that both Mars and Venus had a more complete radar mapping of their surface before the Earth was so mapped - the quality of the Earth data is going to be so much better. Neither Mars or Venus have as much overlapping stereo radar imagery suitable for very high resolution topographic mapping of their surface. (I'd also point out that both Mars and Venus are smaller planets than the Earth ...).

  30. Re:Minnseota Internet Slowdown (please mod up) by MarkMac · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    Yes, there are problems related to the Code Red Worm - your friends in Minneapolis with Quest DSL are probably using a DSL modem that is affected - the main symptom is being disconnected. There is a fix listed for certain CISCO modems - have a look at:

    http://support.visi.com/dsl/codered.html

    Of course this doesn't have much to do with NASA's shuttle radar imagery! Except maybe that it can take a while to download one of those full resolution images for maximum viewing :-)

    I'd point out that some of the imagery is too good - extremely sharp topographic relief simply cannot be captured in stereo from space (at least not in the shuttle passes) and thus no elevation data for those locations. I also recall that they were not able to image the entire surface of the Earth in stereo as they had hoped.

  31. Who can say "first strike" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You all know this is really going to be used for a first strike against China and Russia.

  32. WARNING! Adequacy.org spammer. [See Links] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nt

  33. Flight Simulation by drdink · · Score: 1

    I'll be waiting for an X-Plane junkie to get their hands on the data and make a terrain set out of it.

    --
    Beware, Nugget is watching... See?
  34. Available to population? by bomek · · Score: 1

    Do you think those maps will be buyable or downloadable for the rest of us? I mean, it would be very nice that before going hiking, climbing or something else to evalutate the field in real time 3D before.

    A little CGI would make the job, enter the corners coordinates and they shoot you the map :-)

    Well, i guess i'm dreaming, but it would so cool!

  35. Linux? dying? doubtful. by arodland · · Score: 1

    Okay... it's agreed that linux will never be for anyone... actually, one of the philosophies that linux lives on is that NOTHING is for everyone. However, linux is most certainly not dying. point-for-point: 1) not much of anything, especially anything tech-related has been posting a profitable quarter recently. quoting those kinds of numbers during the current "instability" or whatever you prefer to call it is not going to prove anything. 2) a) the GPL doesn't "force" its license onto "everything [it] comes into contact with". the GPL has a propagation clause that protects freedom, but it also gives people choices on the matter. b) hrm... don't people tend to "attack" things that they're afraid of? also no proof whatsoever. c) It's plenty easy to distribute GPLd software under another license, for the _author_. Authors of GPL'd software generally make it pretty easy to contact them, contrary to what you say. Again, this is a part of the GPL made to ensure freedom. We won't go into the merits of the GPL in every situation here, because d) linux software does NOT have to be GPL'd. 3) a) again, linux will never be for everybody. Linux is about choice. Forcing your software on everybody and denying them choice is a BAD thing. Just ask certain software companies. b) first, linux has pretty decent hardware support, compared to anything but the top few OSs... this is fostered by its GPLness. second, linux IS getting increased notice from hardware developers, up many hundred percent in the past year, or the past 6 months, or the past month. Linux is not dying. far from it. --also known as "hobbs" in some places

  36. excuse the minor stupidity by arodland · · Score: 1

    This is the first time I've bothered to reply to a comment here, so bear with a few dumb things. 1: s/anyone/everyone on the first line 2: insert
    's where I meant them to be. (i.e. where they logically belong)

  37. Stereo images? by Repton · · Score: 1

    What's the deal with the stereo images? When I view them the way I normally view stereograms (let my eyes drift out of focus so I can see four images, and then make the middle two overlap), the 3-d image I see is the reverse of what I would expect: The ocean is a flat plane, but mountains and suchlike are depressions in it, receeding in to the background. (as opposed to coming out towards me like I would expect)

    Am I missing something here? It's hard to believe they would make such a basic mistake as putting the images the wrong way around (although if you swap them, you do get something that works properly for me), so is there some other way of looking at these things? Is it possible to do naked-eye?

    --
    Repton.
    They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
    1. Re:Stereo images? by leeward · · Score: 1

      JPL does say that their images are indeed reversed. "The stereo-pair images are reversed; that is to say, the "left-eye" image is on the right side of the pair. This is intentional. It is set up for cross-eyed viewing, as indicated on the image."

      There is a trick that I use to do (almost) naked eye viewing of images that are like this (and I actually find it easier on my eyes). By the way, what are the links to some of the images you were looking at?

      Close your left eye and slide your right hand in from the right, about a foot in front of your face, until it blocks the right image but not the left image. So now your right eye is looking at the left image. Now, while trying to keep that hand approximately where it was, close the right eye and open the left, and similarly slide your left hand in from the left.

      Now you can open both eyes, and do a little fine tuning with your hands, maybe moving them slightly forward or back to get the image visibility right. It sounds kind of complicated, but in practice, I found it pretty easy to do.

    2. Re:Stereo images? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there is another way instead of focusing behind the image, focus your eyes in front of the image i.e. cross your eyes slightly you can use your thumb as a guide and move it in and out till you get the right spot (images pop out at you like they are made of jelly) falcon0099@usa.net

  38. Is it just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or do all JPL-origined sites appear as though tghey were crafted 5 years ago using LYNX as the intended browsing audience? sheesh!

  39. Terraserver isn't defunct by Colz+Grigor · · Score: 1
    Though I agree with several of the other replies to your comment (that Terraserver's photos weren't nearly as cool as this set), Terraserver is hardly defunct. In fact, it's got a lot more functionality, now. Too bad it's brought to us by the enemy.

    ::Colz Grigor

    --

  40. Re:Resolution? just a note by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2

    I think you are being paranoid, if those missed spots on the map are accurate.

    Looks like Northern Florida...west of King Harbor and Pensacola, central North/South Carolina, southern Minnesota/north Iowa, and the west Texas boarder area.

    Nothing fun there. South Central Utah, Colorado and Nevada are the sites that are suspected to be "sensative".

  41. Re:Resolution? Landsat? by MarkMac · · Score: 1
    Since Landsat (the image that is overlaid on the radar data) is typically 30m, these data sets won't be any better than that.

    The fact that Landsat data resolution is 30 meters (actually, it varies with sensor and satellite) is *completely* irrelevant. The satellite imagery is simply overlaid over the radar-produced topographic data for visual effect when producing fancy pictures. The topographic data can be and will be of a higher spatial resolution.

  42. Re:Resolution? Landsat? by MarkMac · · Score: 1
    Actually, a better description of the SRTM data products can be found at:

    http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/datafinaldescriptions .html

    Note the the 30m resolution is for a "seamless" National DEM database. Interpolating (up) to a 30m resolution is intended to correspond to other satellite/digital data already interpolated to this semi-"standard" resolution. Some public data products will (eventually!) be available at a higher spatial resolution. (Frankly, 30m resolution may be overkill for Kansas but hardly sufficient for half of Colorado!)

    More information about the potential resolution of this radar data can be found at:

    http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/datafinaldescriptions .html