Comic Books And The Internet, Continued

A number of readers have written in about the Salon story talking with Gary Groth's recation to Scott McCloud's pieces on the intersection of the comic and the Internet. Groth's feelings are much different then McCloud. I love the comic book format (am currently reading Cerebus, The Dreaming and Bone amongst others) and think is an interesting issue - 'specially considered within the greater question of "art" and digital media.

Comments

once again....

[bricriu]

Once again, Sluggy Freelance has been passed over in an online article/discussion about comics. It has everything that Salon is bringing up as salient points: long story arcs (not quite as long as the mentioned College Roomies from Hell, but they do intersect and elements from previous arcs come back in later ones), micro-payments, the ability for the artist to make the majority of his money off of it (witness the actual bound books available through Plan 9 Publishing, as well as the assorted "goodies" you can buy), and solid artwork (those who've read Gaiman's Sandman may notice some influence in the often-hauntingly-beautiful The Bug, the Witch, and the Robot story arc may see some similarities)...

Why does it seem that Sluggy has become an online-comics pariah these days? User Friendly gets bashed for being too pro-geek (or whatever), which may or may not be a valid criticism. But Sluggy is just getting forgotten? What gives?

Re:once again....

[squidfood]

All right, test time:

With this long list of favorite online comics from all you guys, how many of you have (paypal etc.) paid for them? How much?

online the equalizer

[boboroshi]

The thing about the internet we all realize now is that it gives you a level playing field. You don't need a deal with DC to publish a comic. You just need Flash. And that will create a lot of extra stuff out there that the end user must weed through. But then you'll find something really cool and also free.

like this. or the stuff they were doing at lucasfilm. It's a whole new alteration of the technology. And it's pretty cool.

Re:online the equalizer

[Anonymous Coward]

Read up on Devid Sims' Cerebus: You never needed DC to publish a comic book. Small scale printing is within the financial grasp of anyone who wants the heartbreaking and unceasing labor of owning and consequently marketing their own intellectual product. It's not easy but it's always been around. When you consider the cost of a decent computer, registering a place on the 'net, and getting reliable scalable hosting, the startup economics of self-publishing a printed comic book are very reasonable. Most geeks have a computer already for other purposes so it just seems like it's "free" publishing. More to the point, economics of self-publishing on the internet are very shaky and untested. You're going to have to work hard and hussle to make money off of comics regardless of your medium.

For the relative minority of people who have home access to a decent computer, sure, the internet makes self-publishing damn near anything just for the hell of it into a cost-effective enterprise. But the idea that it's revolutionizing the average artists' access to making a living at his/her craft is pure utopian B.S. There still isn't a level playing field because money can always buy you a louder voice, bigger pipes, better access, a spot on the main stage. The relatively non-commercial nature of open searching tools like Google does make for a slightly more egalitarian world for creators - but to really consolidate the equalizing powers of the internet into a level playing field will take a lot of work and a lot of organization by both creators and consumers.

friction sucks unless it's intimate

[rstevens]

maybe i'm biased, but why does there have to be friction between web and paper comics? we can help each other grow, especially if you use web strips to help sell paper books to people who don't go to comic shops. (gee, and that's only 99% of humans in the USA)

Ughh... Too many levels of abstraction.

[Giant Hairy Spider]

Here we are, posting comments on a link to commentary on a review of an analysis of the future of a medium for a mode of expression.

Now people are going to moderate these comments, and meta-moderate the moderation, and probably comment on both level of moderation.

Given the typical error factor in each level of analysis, there is a near certainty that there is no meaningful connection between this discussion and physical reality.

So does this mean we've gone insane or that we've evolved into creatures of pure thought and energy?

Re:Comic books are cool but

[keytoe]

I know, I know - me too me too... but I've never actually seen anyone mention this one.

Stray Bullets by David Lapham is one phenominal book. The story arcs are fantasticly articulate, character development is deep and the art is great. And he pulls it all off in black and white using nothing but dialog and emotion. Highly recommended. I know he hates the comparison, but if you like Miller, you'll love Lapham.

For fun, there's a web site, but it doesn't seem to be serving at the moment. He's not really one to embrace this whole 'net comic thing anyway (to stay on topic).

Divergent Media

[mykepredko]

Interesting day; along with this topic, there is an article on the failure of e-books. All this seems to indicate to me that different types of content is best distributed using different media.

I respect both McCloud and Groth and feel that they are both correct. I read 10-15 comic books a week (and I have been doing it for 30 years now) and I love going back and re-reading the books. I also look at seven or eight strips per day and don't miss not having them on paper. There are also quite a few Flash animations that I have put on CDR.

Before the Internet can be used to reliably present the different types of materials that have been talked about here, there are a number of technical challenges that have to be met.

I find that no matter how good the display is, the subtleties of the work in a panel is lost - this is especially true for hand painted books (Look at Jeff Smith and Charles Vess' "Rose" series to see what I mean). Strips do not have this limitation and many of the most successful strips use the drawings as a framework for the story/joke - Going with this, how successful do you think Scott Adams would be if he was constantly compared to artists like Curt Swan?

Another is the speed of the Internet and PC equipment. I have a cable modem at home, but often I am waiting for a new graphic to come up or to retrieve a previously read one. There is a certain kinematic sense that is part of a comic book that the Internet cannot yet simulate (although for a strip or a Flash file, their nature transcends this problem).

I do not believe that motion can be adequately modelled using simple animation. Most animation that I have seen in comics is really "eye candy" that very rarely is integral to the scene/story/joke. I suspect that substantial animation that works with the story requires more work than is reasonable for a monthly (comic) book or daily strip. But for many Flash media presentations, simple animation adds more than what would be expected for the amount of work that is required.

While I feel that the different forms of visual entertainment are being presented in the appropriate format, this does not mean that things won't change in the future.

It is probably good that McCloud and Groth are having these discussions/arguments, but I would expect that either technology changes to make the choice/answer obvious or new forms of comics will be invented and it will find its own niche, just the way comic books, comic strips and Flash media have.

myke

The first gaming comic strip on the web...

[gmezero]

The Polymer-City Chronicles originally appeared on the web in late 94'. The author recently transitioned the strip from a "4-panel funny" format a few weeks ago and has begun a story arc which he expects will take him through the end of the year. It's well worth the read, and the author takes donations as well to help cover the cost of publishing the comic.

Increased Reading (slightly offtopic)

[fallen1]

Comic books have been linked to the increased reading in the youth (and judging from some of the posts I've seen here and elsewhere they need exposure to correctly spelled words :-p). See this article here for some notes on the topic. By and large this also extends to online comics and their ilk since more young people are exposed to the Internet than books these days (or so it seems).

This reading by choice (instead of the school forced reading) usually leads the young people of today and tomorrow onto the path of higher knowledge and better understanding. So, why not use the 'Net to extend this choice and create a better read society? Is not a well read society better able to make distinctions between FUD and fact? Between the technical and the trash?

Just food for thought...