Re:Yet another uninformative top-level post.
by
blang
·
· Score: 3, Funny
Yes, and from now on people, please refer to "Intel, a microprocessor maunfacturer"; "Microsoft a software procucts company"; and
"Cisco, a data networking concern"
Not enough buzzwords, you're missing important parts such as "largest", "leading". Here's how they descrieb themselves a tthe end of press releases:
"Intel, the world's largest chip maker, is also a leading manufacturer of computer, networking and communications products. "
"Founded in 1975, Microsoft is the worldwide leader in software, services and Internet technologies for personal and business computing.
The company offers a wide range of products and services designed to empower people through great software -- any time, any place and on any device."
"Cisco Systems, Inc. is the worldwide leader in networking for the Internet"
But it seems, the smaller the company is, more verbiage is needed. For example Ariba:
"Ariba, Inc. is the leading business-to-business (B2B) eCommerce solutions provider. Ariba's open, end-to-end, interoperable
software solutions and hosted Web-based commerce services enable efficient online trade, integration and collaboration
between B2B marketplaces, buyers, suppliers and commerce service providers. The global reach and best-of-breed functionality of Ariba B2B eCommerce
solutions create Internet-driven economies of scale and process efficiencies for leading companies around the world. "
-- --
Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
Re:This sucks!
by
Skapare
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Some of these DSL providers, including Rhythms and North Point, had positioned their business plans in the direction of becoming a full CLEC and offering not only DSL, but everything else that a CLEC would offer, including voice and other data circuits. What they found is first there were too many of them fighting over the small market that would abandon the ILEC. Their DSL sales may have been going OK, but sales in other business plans were just not bearing fruit, yet they had invested lots of money overbuilding that structure. While DSL sales were happening, because of cut throat market posturing, profits from it were very small at best, and most likely negative anyway.
If a business plans to achieve 40% market share, can't be profitable with less than 25% share, and faces 9 competitors with the same plans, something's got to break. The smarter ones can live through it.
First, I don't really think the prospect of 700 people losing their jobs is particularly funny. That's a lot of families and children involved.
Second, I don't think it's very funny that DSL providers are being forced into bankruptcy by the Baby Bells (see this and this and this and do your own searches if you need more).
Laugh if you will, but in the long run, you're going to only have AOL-Time Warner cable (after they swallow most of the cable providers) vs. DSL from your local Baby Bell to choose from for broadband service. And like Coke and Pepsi, AOL and the Baby Bell aren't going to compete on price or quality.
--
"We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
That's right. The RBOCS seems to be the only companies lft who can still set whatever price they like on their product, and still keep their customers. I don't know about you, but close to $30 for dial tone per month, just to have your dial tone is extortion. The Bells still have huge margins, which is proof that competition is non-existing.
As bandwidth gets cheaper at an impressive rate, I can garantee, that the RBOC DSL provider will keep raising prices for residential DSL access by $10 a year at least.
Well, at lease AOL-Time Warner cable seems to have their act together. Which is more than I can say for MediaOne, err, AT&T Broadband, err, AT&T@Home, ummm...whatever...who has the other side of the Minneapolis Metro. And good luck getting a DSL line from Qwest in a timely manner, but that won't stop them from ramming "DSL is great!" down your throat every chance they get.
Anyway, AOL-Time Warner's RoadRunner service routes better for AT&T (excelent pings to my co-lo box on TW, just OK from AT&T), lets me grab up to 5ips (AT&T limits you to 1 unless you pay $10 more a month for 3 ips.), and it's just been a good experience overall.
Of all the offerings in Minneapolis, AOLTW does seem to be the one that got it right. AT&T changes their routing and name every other mounth, and Qwest still has the US West legacy. AOLTW just merged and took RoadRunner away from AT&T.
-- I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.
Sorry, my fault they went under
by
the_rev_matt
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
I seem to have a curse. Two of my last three employers are no longer (and the third is in critical condition).
Seriously tho', Rhythms was incredibly disorganized internally (at least in May-Nov 1999 they were). Poor communication, lack of clear goals, the usual internal politics etc. The development group was mostly overpriced/underskilled consultants who really did a lot of damage. About June of 99 they decided to hire the decent consultants (yours truly included) and drop-kick the rest, and that was certainly a good first step. Their Director of Development (Jamie Horgan) after about Nov of 99 was awesome but I don't think he could single handedly save the company from what ultimately killed them: Incumbent telcos. Going head to head with those monstrosities is begging to go out of business. You think MSFT is bad? Try dealing with Qworst, and it was only that much harder for Rhythms because the CEO defected from Qworst (it took a LONG time for Rhythms to be able to offer DSL service in their own town, because Qworst kept dragging their feet as punishment for her leaving to compete). I consider myself extremely lucky that I'm moving to a state that does not have Qworst.
Re:Sorry, my fault they went under
by
vtechpilot
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
I seem to have a curse. Two of my last three employers are no longer (and the third is in critical condition).
Have you applied for a job at microsoft yet? From the people I know that work with them it doesn't seem to be that hard.
Do us all a favor and visit http://www.microsoft.com/jobs/
-- Slashdot is an anagram for Has Dolts, and I am Dolt number 468543
Re:Welcome to the Post-Internet Age
by
bricriu
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
Perhaps you mean "one less company --> more monopolistic power for the Baby Bells." They don't have to worry about remaining solvent, despite (as pointed out above) the ongoing (and insufficiently punitive) fines they face for not opening their networks.
Ya just can't ignore stuff like that:-(
--
AHHHHHHH! I'm burning with goodness again!
- Reakk, Sluggy Freelance
Re: "anyone know roughly home many survivors there
by
carlhirsch
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Covad is pretty much the last national data CLEC. New Edge Networks is still around but has a much smaller footprint.
Covad is expecting to go into Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection shortly, but the corporate line here is that it's for debt restructuring and continued survivability rather than liquidation.
I'm skeptical, personally. I give 70/30 odds against coming out of bankruptcy alive a year from now.
-- .
We've got computers, we're tapping phone lines, you know that ain't allowed - Talking Heads, "Life During Wartime"
the sad truth about DSL
by
FrostyWheaton
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
It appears that most DSL providers are victims of the same business model that sunk so many.com's: "Sell at a loss, and make it up in volume." Now there is a chance that DSL could be provided for $39.99 a month, but the customer base would have to be huge in order to keep the price that low. They unfourtunately ran out of money before they could build up a large enough customer base to make the business profitable.
Personally, I'm somewhat saddened to see so many DSL providers dying an early death, but that's the free market economy for you.
-- Comments should be like skirts. Short enough to keep your attention, but long enough to cover the subject
Re:the sad truth about DSL
by
the_rev_matt
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
It is not free market. Once company was given a monopoly and now smaller companies are trying to compete and are being beaten to death by thugs who buy off the state legislators and the PUC's so they don't have to pay fines or play fair. A free market would mean everyone has an equal opportunity, definitely NOT the case here.
Agreed. Mod down grand parent, and mod up parent, if you're gonna mod at all.
-- --
Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
Re:the chicken or the egg
by
Waffle+Iron
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· Score: 3, Funny
Access speeds need to increase to take Internet use tot he next level, yet at the same time, there has to be useful broadband content to merit the cost of increasing access speeds. But what will come first?
pr0n.
It applies to non-commercial entities as well
by
volpe
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· Score: 2
But it seems, the smaller the company is, more verbiage is needed. For example Ariba: [...]
The converse is also true, and it is not restricted to companies. For example:
Earth: mostly harmless
I feel your pain.
by
Mustang+Matt
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Northpoint shut down in St. Louis not too long ago.
I highly recommend Savvis. They have some products that are more expensive but have superior quality and their network delay guarantees are the fastest in the world.
They have awesome uptime guarantees also. You dial the tech support number and you get a live person who usually isn't a tech support clown and actually has some knowledge about what is going on in this world.
I ended up going with a T1 from them. Had local loop fees from swbell been cheaper ($550) it would have been the cheapest T1 in existence ($995 full T1)
Disclaimer: Yes, I am a stockholder (ouch!), yes I am affiliated with the company as a customer, plus I used to work for Bridge before I went out on my own doing web development and hosting. However, in my honest opinion, I still think they have a superior service and pricing for what you get.
-- The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Re:Yet another uninformative top-level post.
by
ct
·
· Score: 3, Informative
A regional DSL provider is just a TAD less "known" than the Global presence that the industry leaders you've mentioned.
Re:Welcome to the Post-Internet Age
by
Skapare
·
· Score: 2
There are regional ones that don't have (capital sucking) nationwide infrastructure, such as IP Communications, which has already been anticipating the fall of Rythyms.
Amen, brotha! I haven't seen any of their commercials in a while, but by god they sucked. It was a bunch of silhouettes dancing around and there was "data" flowing around the screen (you know, a bunch of numbers floating around). If i remember right, there were also people saying dumb things.
Re:What is it about DSL and wireless companies?
by
baptiste
·
· Score: 2, Informative
But, back to the plight of the DSL companies...can these companies ever formulate a business plan that actually works and makes money? Are there independent (non-phone company) DSL providers that are making a profit?
Sure they can - the same day the telcos are actually forced to open up their networks and preform the requested work on tim einstead of delaying orders for months while they try to grab all DSL customers for themselves. I mean charging a DSL ISP $30 just for the freaking line is a juoke when you cna get DSL in many places for $35-$50.
So, alas - we're still where we were in the 70's Stuck with one company providing a communication service with no hope of competitors keeping prices low.
Cable you say? Maybe - but only for residential average users. I expect that most residential users will go to cable modems and telcos will jack up prices on DSL to the point only businesses can afford it - But businesses will pay the sky high DSL prices cause its more reliable and offers higher upstream bandwidth (without congestion slowdowns) than cable modems.
I consider myself very lucky to have a small Mom & Pop telco with DSL capability who have excellent service and charge a decent rate. I've been nothing but happy with my DSL and wish the technology wouldn't be driven into the ground by greedy telcos (can we say ISDN anyone?) It Still Does Nothing since telcos keep saying I See Dollars Now:)
I wonder how much of this is tied into the comtnuing fine that AT&T has been paying, and will continue to pay, for screwing up its lesser competitors.
-- "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Thank You Rhythms Employees.
by
Necron69
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
I would just like to say thank you to the employees of Rhythms (including my now unemployed sister-in-law), who worked hard to make a decent company out of that mess. I've had my SDSL line for a year, and although I had four different ISPs in that time, my line was Rhythms all the way with very few problems.
Fuck Rhythms management, who made off with millions while the employees and customers get screwed.
I guess my only choice now is Qwest.
- Necron69
Re:Thank You Rhythms Employees.
by
daviddennis
·
· Score: 2
I got Rhythms service through UUNET when Covad was unable to get a connection working for more than 24 consecutive hours without some kind of failure.
Rhythms has provided me with excellent service - so good as to be entirely invisible. I have a call in to UUNET to see where they can put me next; I'm scared to go with Covad again.
I may have to try a cable modem, but I really like being able to run a server at home. Anyone got ideas?
D
Re:Thank You Rhythms Employees.
by
unitron
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· Score: 2
"...Rhythms management, who made off with millions..."
From an article on The Register a couple of days ago--
"Execs at Rhythms NetConnections in the US awarded themselves $4 million in bonuses just three days before seeking bankruptcy."
Probably snuck their Aeron chairs out the back door while no onw was looking as well.
--
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
The Company is also reducing its workforce today by approximately 700 employees, or approximately 75 percent of its total workforce. Approximately 85 percent of the affected employees are in Colorado.
There are approximately zero copywriters now employed at Rythms.
-- I think I'll stop here.
Rhythms shut down St. Louis DSL yesterday
by
phawley
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· Score: 2, Informative
sad but true...thought we'd have 30 days to scramble!
You know what... You might be onto something!
by
Mustang+Matt
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· Score: 2
Bridge Information also had free sodas and fruit snacks and also went under.
Reuters bought them.
-- The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Re:Free Markets, Public Works, and Monopolies
by
TheSync
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· Score: 3, Informative
To whit, why do "natural monopolies" exist, what makes them a "natural monopoly,"
"Natural Monopolies" exist because of local governments granting monopoly franchises. Period.
Areas with competiting telecom providers (such as multiple cable companies) generally have lower prices.
The whole "natural monopoly" BS happened in the early part of the century as power companies and the Bell System got monopoly franchises through their political influence.
Re:Does this effect Telocity/DirectTV customers
by
Dman33
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· Score: 2
Being one of those Telocity/DirecTV users that is on a Rhythms provider I must say... it does not look too good. I imagine that Telocity/DirecTV will just work us through a painful transition to Covad which may be around for a few more months...
Man, what is left besides cable? Perhaps I will just get a dry line to my office and SDSL to our T1.
And you thought the last few years have been fun..
by
Bill+the+Cat
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
...we may go through it all again if some baby bells are broken up.
Rest assured that your government is working on it (shudder).
Welcome to the Post-Internet Age
by
number+one+duck
·
· Score: 2
No worries, one less company --> more customers for the surviving companies, and more chances of them becoming and remaining solvent. If this was the *last* dsl/cable company to fall, then maybe we'd have a problem.. anyone know roughly home many survivors there are?
(Cheerfully ignoring concepts like monopoly and trust in my definition of problem)
Re:Free Markets, Public Works, and Monopolies
by
w3woody
·
· Score: 3, Informative
IMHO, this is one of the more intelligent comments I've read on the Internet for a while.
I do think it's worth defining a "natural monopoly" here. A "natural monopoly" is any situation where, for all practical purposes, only a single solution may be implemented. For example, it would be impractical for every local phone carrier to install copper wire from the local switching box to my house--we have at least a dozen phone companies; a dozen separate wire pairs, one for each phone company would be rediculous. Or take the freeways--it would be nearly insane to have 10 private freeway toll companies build 10 parallel freeways along each freeway corridor--we would have to effectively pave the planet to allow each toll company to compete.
In situations where a common resource exists because of this sort of a "natural monopoly" is created, in my opinion it is best to place this "common resource" into the public trust--that is, to have the government run this public resource. That's because competition is impractical--the 10 freeways per freeway corridor, or the 12 cables per house makes head-to-head competition impractical.
In my opinion these common public resources must be placed in the hands of the government or, at least, in the hands of a not-for-profit organization heavily administered by the government (as the U.S. Post Office is, for all practical purposes). That's because any natural monopoly forming around a public resource which is motivated by profit, as the Bell companies are or the California Electrical companies are--this leads to corruption. It leads to corruption because the monopolies (such as the Bells), in an effort to increase profit, can only increase it by affecting the regulatory process. (And in the case of the Baby Bells or the California Electrical companies, "affecting the regulatory process" == "bribing local officials to turn the other way.") And sometimes (as in the case of the California Electrical companies) this sort of "regulatory lobbying" can lead to disasterous results.
I'm not a socialist. I'm a died-in-the-wool capitalist. But in natural monopoly situations where competition is impractical (such as the last mile of copper to the house, or in building freeways), "Capitalism" doesn't exist. Effective capitalism can only exist when competition exists, and when new players can enter the playing field and compete.
Re:Yet another uninformative top-level post.
by
BilldaCat
·
· Score: 2
He's too busy censoring websites, give the guy a break.
-- BilldaCat
If you surf without rhythms...
by
dschuetz
·
· Score: 2
Rhythms could have been providing the line and another ISP could have been providing the service.
-- The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Re:Yet another uninformative top-level post.
by
Anne_Nonymous
·
· Score: 2, Flamebait
Yes, and from now on people, please refer to "Intel, a microprocessor maunfacturer"; "Microsoft a software procucts company"; and "Cisco, a data networking concern".
Re:No Surprise
by
paranoic
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Actually Covad went Chapter 11, which is reorganization, they did not go out of business. Well, as of now they haven't.
I don't think Rhythms and northpoint were in the consumer aDSL market as much as they were into the business SDSL market.
They had plans above and beyond small $40/month circuits.
It would seem to me that they should have been able to charge anything shfot of the price of a T1 and make money because it was the only "low-cost" high speed business internet connection available to my knowledge.
-- The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Bellsouth charges Earthlink $33 per DSL line in
by
Shivetya
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Bellsouth charges Earthlink 33.00 dollars per DSL line in Atlanta, and EL charges me 49.95. I submitted a story about an idea to break up the baby bells (but alas it was rejected) http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1004-200-6818658.html? tag=tp_pr
Your going to see more and more of these resellers fail simply because when the bell's do open their networks they jack the prices so high that they don't ever have to fear that their own services unit (read ISP+) will have a problem selling overpriced product.
I wonder how long before they justify raising the rates they charge to Earthlink (Bellsouth raising rates) because of needs to improve the network.
-- *
Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Yet another uninformative top-level post.
by
Giant+Hairy+Spider
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Really now, how hard would it be to refer to them as "Rhythyms, a DSL connection provider," instead of forcing you to read the story to figure out whether it's something you care about.
--
--- You'd be surprised at the broadband connection available to things crawling around in your hair.
... is that my ISP is on top of it. I just gave them a call because I know that I'm on Rhythms, and the last time my CLEC shut down (NorthPoint) my old ISP (Empire.net) simply dropped all their customers, and I was without a decent internet
connection for a month.
Anyway, I gave my current ISP (GalaxyDSL.net) a call because of the Rhythms news, and they have already started transitioning customers over to other providers. They said that they expected minimal, if any, downtime, and that I would be contacted shortly to make an appointment for a new router installation. Apparently they have dealt with this situation before from when HarvardNet closed down, and they are well prepared. The tech said that it was likely that I would be switched over sometime next week. Amazing!
I've lived in and around Boston for most of my life and have had accounts with almost every ISP in the area since ISP's existed. I've never seen such great technical support and customer service as with galaxydsl.net. They've been on top of the code red problems, the cisco router vulnerabilities, and now the Rhythms shutdown. When I call for support I get right through to an actual technician. They are a great alternative to Verizon/Time Warner if anyone's looking for one.
No, I am not affiliated with them in any way, just pleasantly surprised by the service.
For the "undernets" - this will be no problem - we are already seeing the beginning of them in many major cities - I am certain there are more in other cities, just unannounced at this point, for whatever reason.
For the "common man", though - highly unlikely, simply because they take more "technical" knowledge than the "common man" is willing to ante up to learning about.
Think of the cable companies - now, really - how hard would it be to set up a cheap, multi-channel, cable system in a neighborhood - a few cheap satellite dishes, some descramblers (heck, make 'em legal even), distribution amps, coax, etc - and a lot of labor, but it could be done. In fact, that is how cable companies originally got started - a bunch of neighbors got together to install a large antenna so they could all share it (instead of having individual, and less receptive, antennas on their roofs). Eventually, some of these "co-ops" got bought out, and the ball started rolling.
However, this was all at a time when people cared about "do-it-yourself" - the vast majority today would love an ass-wiping machine, if one existed - the lazy fucks.
Finally - insofar as wireless networking is concerned - the use of 802.11 is flawed. Sure, the frequency spectrum right now is unregulated, but it probably won't stay that way. Once the corps get wind that these undernets are either a) eating into profits (unlikely) or b) causeing other economic, social, or political problems - they will lobby to have the frequencies licensed, or in some way severely regulated.
These homebrew systems should be looking into some alternative form - light, or something else (because I wouldn't doubt that "they" will try to regulate light as a communications medium) - and move away from radio systems...
White guys have been without rhythm for generations.
Free Markets, Public Works, and Monopolies
by
FreeUser
·
· Score: 5, Informative
A colleague of mine and I were discussing this just this morning (he is a Ritym's subscriber).
Many of the DSL failures are a result, at least in part, of being jerked around by the provisioner of the last mile of wire. Here in Chicago that monopolist would be Ameritech -- notorious for deliberately delaying and mucking with the installation of competitor's DSL lines, despite a plethora of FCC regulations designed to prevent this sort of unfairness. I had personal experience with this, as did my colleague, when our DSL lines (from different providors) were provisioned.
When breaking up so-called "natural" monopolies with the intent of creating competition a very obvious oversight has been made, at least here in the United States, quite probably as a result of the rather radical anti-anything-that-remotely-smells-like-it-could-m aybe-be-considered-socialistic-by-anyone-to-the-ri ght-of-Gengis-Khan political atmosphere that has imbued the country since the early Reagan days. To whit, why do "natural monopolies" exist, what makes them a "natural monopoly," and why shouldn't the factor, or commonality, be treated as a public works project the way we do other "natural monopolies" such as roads and highways?
Take electricity, water, and telecommunications as examples. What made the electric company a natural monopoly? Not power generation, but delivery to your home... i.e. the physical wire. What made telecommunications a natural monopoly? Once again, not the intervening network and its services so much as the last mile of wire to your house. Water? Not, in most places, the water acquisition (it can come from rivers, aquafers, lakes, even the air if you can figure out how to do that economically) but rather the physical pipe to your faucet.
Instead of even considering nationalizing the infrastructure (there's another word which has fallen victim to the anti-communism hysteria of the early 80's and has remained taboo since) we have chosen instead to impliment an absurdly byzantine set of regulations prohibiting this, requireing that, and hopefully resulting in a level playing field. An approach far more favorable to error or outright corruption, and far less conducive to a level playing field and the competition such would engender than simply treating the wire like a public road, with equal access to all, would have.
I would submit that bottlenecks which create so-called natural monopolies, such as highways, the last mile(s) of telephone wire, and perhaps even the entire power grid, should be treated the same as highways, paid for and administered by government via taxes or access fees and provided to all of the competing service providors under the same terms.
The disadvantes would be the same ones we have with highways: a certain amount of government bloat, a certain amount of corruption in contracting and subcontracting, and a certain amount of government ineffeciency.
Just as with highways the advantages would far outweigh this, however: a level playing field for all competing businesses, an elimination of byzantine FCC regulations designed (and failing) to counter the monopolistic advantages under the current, wholely private, approach, an administration that is open to public scruitiny and nominally accountable to the public via our democratic process, and quite possibly economies of scale that might well offset the added overhead inherent in government administration of any project.
Monopolies are ineffecient, whether they are government or private. Where they must exist, as with roads, it makes far more sense that they be in public hands, a part of the public commons, rather than in the hands of some private Robber Barron a la' the Rhein River of two centuries ago.
Finally, I would argue that a free, competetive market cannot exist when the underlying infrastructure for that market resides in the hands of a private monopoly. Indeed, it appears that a competetive market on top of such an infrastructure is difficult, perhaps impossible, to maintain even if it is highly regulated. However, as we've seen with the success of our transportation companies, airlines can compete very well with public airports and automobile companies as well as trucking companies compete very well on public highways.
Perhaps it is time we reevaluated our love affair with private ownership of nearly all our basic infrastructures and put aside our aversion to nationalization and consider the question from the point of view of how to we structure things to eliminate private monopolies and maximize competetive free markets while at the same time minimizing the need for intrusive government regulation.
Re:WOHOO - NO MORE "YOU'VE GOT RYTHIM" COMMERCIALS
by
Lotek
·
· Score: 2
Amen to that, brother. Those commercials were so annoying I would turn off my radio rather than listening to them. Funny once, annoying the next twelve billion times.
Slashdot Mirror
Not enough buzzwords, you're missing important parts such as "largest", "leading". Here's how they descrieb themselves a tthe end of press releases:
"Intel, the world's largest chip maker, is also a leading manufacturer of computer, networking and communications products. "
"Founded in 1975, Microsoft is the worldwide leader in software, services and Internet technologies for personal and business computing. The company offers a wide range of products and services designed to empower people through great software -- any time, any place and on any device."
"Cisco Systems, Inc. is the worldwide leader in networking for the Internet"
But it seems, the smaller the company is, more verbiage is needed. For example Ariba:
"Ariba, Inc. is the leading business-to-business (B2B) eCommerce solutions provider. Ariba's open, end-to-end, interoperable software solutions and hosted Web-based commerce services enable efficient online trade, integration and collaboration between B2B marketplaces, buyers, suppliers and commerce service providers. The global reach and best-of-breed functionality of Ariba B2B eCommerce solutions create Internet-driven economies of scale and process efficiencies for leading companies around the world. "
-- Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
Some of these DSL providers, including Rhythms and North Point, had positioned their business plans in the direction of becoming a full CLEC and offering not only DSL, but everything else that a CLEC would offer, including voice and other data circuits. What they found is first there were too many of them fighting over the small market that would abandon the ILEC. Their DSL sales may have been going OK, but sales in other business plans were just not bearing fruit, yet they had invested lots of money overbuilding that structure. While DSL sales were happening, because of cut throat market posturing, profits from it were very small at best, and most likely negative anyway.
If a business plans to achieve 40% market share, can't be profitable with less than 25% share, and faces 9 competitors with the same plans, something's got to break. The smarter ones can live through it.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Second, I don't think it's very funny that DSL providers are being forced into bankruptcy by the Baby Bells (see this and this and this and do your own searches if you need more).
Laugh if you will, but in the long run, you're going to only have AOL-Time Warner cable (after they swallow most of the cable providers) vs. DSL from your local Baby Bell to choose from for broadband service. And like Coke and Pepsi, AOL and the Baby Bell aren't going to compete on price or quality.
"We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
Seriously tho', Rhythms was incredibly disorganized internally (at least in May-Nov 1999 they were). Poor communication, lack of clear goals, the usual internal politics etc. The development group was mostly overpriced/underskilled consultants who really did a lot of damage. About June of 99 they decided to hire the decent consultants (yours truly included) and drop-kick the rest, and that was certainly a good first step. Their Director of Development (Jamie Horgan) after about Nov of 99 was awesome but I don't think he could single handedly save the company from what ultimately killed them: Incumbent telcos. Going head to head with those monstrosities is begging to go out of business. You think MSFT is bad? Try dealing with Qworst, and it was only that much harder for Rhythms because the CEO defected from Qworst (it took a LONG time for Rhythms to be able to offer DSL service in their own town, because Qworst kept dragging their feet as punishment for her leaving to compete). I consider myself extremely lucky that I'm moving to a state that does not have Qworst.
this is getting old and so are you
blog
Perhaps you mean "one less company --> more monopolistic power for the Baby Bells." They don't have to worry about remaining solvent, despite (as pointed out above) the ongoing (and insufficiently punitive) fines they face for not opening their networks.
:-(
Ya just can't ignore stuff like that
AHHHHHHH! I'm burning with goodness again!
- Reakk, Sluggy Freelance
Covad is pretty much the last national data CLEC. New Edge Networks is still around but has a much smaller footprint.
Covad is expecting to go into Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection shortly, but the corporate line here is that it's for debt restructuring and continued survivability rather than liquidation.
I'm skeptical, personally. I give 70/30 odds against coming out of bankruptcy alive a year from now.
. We've got computers, we're tapping phone lines, you know that ain't allowed - Talking Heads, "Life During Wartime"
It appears that most DSL providers are victims of the same business model that sunk so many .com's: "Sell at a loss, and make it up in volume." Now there is a chance that DSL could be provided for $39.99 a month, but the customer base would have to be huge in order to keep the price that low. They unfourtunately ran out of money before they could build up a large enough customer base to make the business profitable.
Personally, I'm somewhat saddened to see so many DSL providers dying an early death, but that's the free market economy for you.
Comments should be like skirts. Short enough to keep your attention, but long enough to cover the subject
pr0n.
The converse is also true, and it is not restricted to companies. For example:
Earth: mostly harmless
Northpoint shut down in St. Louis not too long ago.
I highly recommend Savvis. They have some products that are more expensive but have superior quality and their network delay guarantees are the fastest in the world.
They have awesome uptime guarantees also. You dial the tech support number and you get a live person who usually isn't a tech support clown and actually has some knowledge about what is going on in this world.
I ended up going with a T1 from them. Had local loop fees from swbell been cheaper ($550) it would have been the cheapest T1 in existence ($995 full T1)
Disclaimer: Yes, I am a stockholder (ouch!), yes I am affiliated with the company as a customer, plus I used to work for Bridge before I went out on my own doing web development and hosting. However, in my honest opinion, I still think they have a superior service and pricing for what you get.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
A regional DSL provider is just a TAD less "known" than the Global presence that the industry leaders you've mentioned.
-ct
But who remains there that knows how to do it?
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
There are regional ones that don't have (capital sucking) nationwide infrastructure, such as IP Communications, which has already been anticipating the fall of Rythyms.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Amen, brotha! I haven't seen any of their commercials in a while, but by god they sucked. It was a bunch of silhouettes dancing around and there was "data" flowing around the screen (you know, a bunch of numbers floating around). If i remember right, there were also people saying dumb things.
Sure they can - the same day the telcos are actually forced to open up their networks and preform the requested work on tim einstead of delaying orders for months while they try to grab all DSL customers for themselves. I mean charging a DSL ISP $30 just for the freaking line is a juoke when you cna get DSL in many places for $35-$50.
So, alas - we're still where we were in the 70's Stuck with one company providing a communication service with no hope of competitors keeping prices low.
Cable you say? Maybe - but only for residential average users. I expect that most residential users will go to cable modems and telcos will jack up prices on DSL to the point only businesses can afford it - But businesses will pay the sky high DSL prices cause its more reliable and offers higher upstream bandwidth (without congestion slowdowns) than cable modems.
I consider myself very lucky to have a small Mom & Pop telco with DSL capability who have excellent service and charge a decent rate. I've been nothing but happy with my DSL and wish the technology wouldn't be driven into the ground by greedy telcos (can we say ISDN anyone?) It Still Does Nothing since telcos keep saying I See Dollars Now :)
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
I wonder how much of this is tied into the comtnuing fine that AT&T has been paying, and will continue to pay, for screwing up its lesser competitors.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I would just like to say thank you to the employees of Rhythms (including my now unemployed sister-in-law), who worked hard to make a decent company out of that mess. I've had my SDSL line for a year, and although I had four different ISPs in that time, my line was Rhythms all the way with very few problems.
Fuck Rhythms management, who made off with millions while the employees and customers get screwed.
I guess my only choice now is Qwest.
- Necron69
There are approximately zero copywriters now employed at Rythms.
I think I'll stop here.
sad but true...thought we'd have 30 days to scramble!
But they do want DSL now! Wouldn't you, if you just lost your free employee connection from RTHM?
sulli
RTFJ.
Bridge Information also had free sodas and fruit snacks and also went under.
Reuters bought them.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
To whit, why do "natural monopolies" exist, what makes them a "natural monopoly,"
"Natural Monopolies" exist because of local governments granting monopoly franchises. Period.
Areas with competiting telecom providers (such as multiple cable companies) generally have lower prices.
The whole "natural monopoly" BS happened in the early part of the century as power companies and the Bell System got monopoly franchises through their political influence.
that the rhythm method does not work.
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
Being one of those Telocity/DirecTV users that is on a Rhythms provider I must say... it does not look too good. I imagine that Telocity/DirecTV will just work us through a painful transition to Covad which may be around for a few more months...
Man, what is left besides cable? Perhaps I will just get a dry line to my office and SDSL to our T1.
...we may go through it all again if some baby bells are broken up.
m l? tag=tp_pr
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1004-200-6818658.ht
Rest assured that your government is working on it (shudder).
No worries, one less company --> more customers for the surviving companies, and more chances of them becoming and remaining solvent. If this was the *last* dsl/cable company to fall, then maybe we'd have a problem.. anyone know roughly home many survivors there are?
(Cheerfully ignoring concepts like monopoly and trust in my definition of problem)
IMHO, this is one of the more intelligent comments I've read on the Internet for a while.
I do think it's worth defining a "natural monopoly" here. A "natural monopoly" is any situation where, for all practical purposes, only a single solution may be implemented. For example, it would be impractical for every local phone carrier to install copper wire from the local switching box to my house--we have at least a dozen phone companies; a dozen separate wire pairs, one for each phone company would be rediculous. Or take the freeways--it would be nearly insane to have 10 private freeway toll companies build 10 parallel freeways along each freeway corridor--we would have to effectively pave the planet to allow each toll company to compete.
In situations where a common resource exists because of this sort of a "natural monopoly" is created, in my opinion it is best to place this "common resource" into the public trust--that is, to have the government run this public resource. That's because competition is impractical--the 10 freeways per freeway corridor, or the 12 cables per house makes head-to-head competition impractical.
In my opinion these common public resources must be placed in the hands of the government or, at least, in the hands of a not-for-profit organization heavily administered by the government (as the U.S. Post Office is, for all practical purposes). That's because any natural monopoly forming around a public resource which is motivated by profit, as the Bell companies are or the California Electrical companies are--this leads to corruption. It leads to corruption because the monopolies (such as the Bells), in an effort to increase profit, can only increase it by affecting the regulatory process. (And in the case of the Baby Bells or the California Electrical companies, "affecting the regulatory process" == "bribing local officials to turn the other way.") And sometimes (as in the case of the California Electrical companies) this sort of "regulatory lobbying" can lead to disasterous results.
I'm not a socialist. I'm a died-in-the-wool capitalist. But in natural monopoly situations where competition is impractical (such as the last mile of copper to the house, or in building freeways), "Capitalism" doesn't exist. Effective capitalism can only exist when competition exists, and when new players can enter the playing field and compete.
He's too busy censoring websites, give the guy a break.
BilldaCat
...you won't attract the worms.
Now we're all safe from Code Red!
(sorry...double-obscure OT...)
Rhythms could have been providing the line and another ISP could have been providing the service.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Yes, and from now on people, please refer to "Intel, a microprocessor maunfacturer"; "Microsoft a software procucts company"; and "Cisco, a data networking concern".
Actually Covad went Chapter 11, which is reorganization, they did not go out of business. Well, as of now they haven't.
I don't think Rhythms and northpoint were in the consumer aDSL market as much as they were into the business SDSL market.
They had plans above and beyond small $40/month circuits.
It would seem to me that they should have been able to charge anything shfot of the price of a T1 and make money because it was the only "low-cost" high speed business internet connection available to my knowledge.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Bellsouth charges Earthlink 33.00 dollars per DSL line in Atlanta, and EL charges me 49.95. I submitted a story about an idea to break up the baby bells (but alas it was rejected) http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1004-200-6818658.html? tag=tp_pr
Your going to see more and more of these resellers fail simply because when the bell's do open their networks they jack the prices so high that they don't ever have to fear that their own services unit (read ISP+) will have a problem selling overpriced product.
I wonder how long before they justify raising the rates they charge to Earthlink (Bellsouth raising rates) because of needs to improve the network.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Fruit?
Really now, how hard would it be to refer to them as "Rhythyms, a DSL connection provider," instead of forcing you to read the story to figure out whether it's something you care about.
---
You'd be surprised at the broadband connection available to things crawling around in your hair.
Fucked company?
Really, could have given us a little more info....
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
... is that my ISP is on top of it. I just gave them a call because I know that I'm on Rhythms, and the last time my CLEC shut down (NorthPoint) my old ISP (Empire.net) simply dropped all their customers, and I was without a decent internet
connection for a month.
Anyway, I gave my current ISP (GalaxyDSL.net) a call because of the Rhythms news, and they have already started transitioning customers over to other providers. They said that they expected minimal, if any, downtime, and that I would be contacted shortly to make an appointment for a new router installation. Apparently they have dealt with this situation before from when HarvardNet closed down, and they are well prepared. The tech said that it was likely that I would be switched over sometime next week. Amazing!
I've lived in and around Boston for most of my life and have had accounts with almost every ISP in the area since ISP's existed. I've never seen such great technical support and customer service as with galaxydsl.net. They've been on top of the code red problems, the cisco router vulnerabilities, and now the Rhythms shutdown. When I call for support I get right through to an actual technician. They are a great alternative to Verizon/Time Warner if anyone's looking for one.
No, I am not affiliated with them in any way, just pleasantly surprised by the service.
-OT
For the "undernets" - this will be no problem - we are already seeing the beginning of them in many major cities - I am certain there are more in other cities, just unannounced at this point, for whatever reason.
For the "common man", though - highly unlikely, simply because they take more "technical" knowledge than the "common man" is willing to ante up to learning about.
Think of the cable companies - now, really - how hard would it be to set up a cheap, multi-channel, cable system in a neighborhood - a few cheap satellite dishes, some descramblers (heck, make 'em legal even), distribution amps, coax, etc - and a lot of labor, but it could be done. In fact, that is how cable companies originally got started - a bunch of neighbors got together to install a large antenna so they could all share it (instead of having individual, and less receptive, antennas on their roofs). Eventually, some of these "co-ops" got bought out, and the ball started rolling.
However, this was all at a time when people cared about "do-it-yourself" - the vast majority today would love an ass-wiping machine, if one existed - the lazy fucks.
Finally - insofar as wireless networking is concerned - the use of 802.11 is flawed. Sure, the frequency spectrum right now is unregulated, but it probably won't stay that way. Once the corps get wind that these undernets are either a) eating into profits (unlikely) or b) causeing other economic, social, or political problems - they will lobby to have the frequencies licensed, or in some way severely regulated.
These homebrew systems should be looking into some alternative form - light, or something else (because I wouldn't doubt that "they" will try to regulate light as a communications medium) - and move away from radio systems...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
White guys have been without rhythm for generations.
A colleague of mine and I were discussing this just this morning (he is a Ritym's subscriber).
m aybe-be-considered-socialistic-by-anyone-to-the-ri ght-of-Gengis-Khan political atmosphere that has imbued the country since the early Reagan days. To whit, why do "natural monopolies" exist, what makes them a "natural monopoly," and why shouldn't the factor, or commonality, be treated as a public works project the way we do other "natural monopolies" such as roads and highways?
... i.e. the physical wire. What made telecommunications a natural monopoly? Once again, not the intervening network and its services so much as the last mile of wire to your house. Water? Not, in most places, the water acquisition (it can come from rivers, aquafers, lakes, even the air if you can figure out how to do that economically) but rather the physical pipe to your faucet.
Many of the DSL failures are a result, at least in part, of being jerked around by the provisioner of the last mile of wire. Here in Chicago that monopolist would be Ameritech -- notorious for deliberately delaying and mucking with the installation of competitor's DSL lines, despite a plethora of FCC regulations designed to prevent this sort of unfairness. I had personal experience with this, as did my colleague, when our DSL lines (from different providors) were provisioned.
When breaking up so-called "natural" monopolies with the intent of creating competition a very obvious oversight has been made, at least here in the United States, quite probably as a result of the rather radical anti-anything-that-remotely-smells-like-it-could-
Take electricity, water, and telecommunications as examples. What made the electric company a natural monopoly? Not power generation, but delivery to your home
Instead of even considering nationalizing the infrastructure (there's another word which has fallen victim to the anti-communism hysteria of the early 80's and has remained taboo since) we have chosen instead to impliment an absurdly byzantine set of regulations prohibiting this, requireing that, and hopefully resulting in a level playing field. An approach far more favorable to error or outright corruption, and far less conducive to a level playing field and the competition such would engender than simply treating the wire like a public road, with equal access to all, would have.
I would submit that bottlenecks which create so-called natural monopolies, such as highways, the last mile(s) of telephone wire, and perhaps even the entire power grid, should be treated the same as highways, paid for and administered by government via taxes or access fees and provided to all of the competing service providors under the same terms.
The disadvantes would be the same ones we have with highways: a certain amount of government bloat, a certain amount of corruption in contracting and subcontracting, and a certain amount of government ineffeciency.
Just as with highways the advantages would far outweigh this, however: a level playing field for all competing businesses, an elimination of byzantine FCC regulations designed (and failing) to counter the monopolistic advantages under the current, wholely private, approach, an administration that is open to public scruitiny and nominally accountable to the public via our democratic process, and quite possibly economies of scale that might well offset the added overhead inherent in government administration of any project.
Monopolies are ineffecient, whether they are government or private. Where they must exist, as with roads, it makes far more sense that they be in public hands, a part of the public commons, rather than in the hands of some private Robber Barron a la' the Rhein River of two centuries ago.
Finally, I would argue that a free, competetive market cannot exist when the underlying infrastructure for that market resides in the hands of a private monopoly. Indeed, it appears that a competetive market on top of such an infrastructure is difficult, perhaps impossible, to maintain even if it is highly regulated. However, as we've seen with the success of our transportation companies, airlines can compete very well with public airports and automobile companies as well as trucking companies compete very well on public highways.
Perhaps it is time we reevaluated our love affair with private ownership of nearly all our basic infrastructures and put aside our aversion to nationalization and consider the question from the point of view of how to we structure things to eliminate private monopolies and maximize competetive free markets while at the same time minimizing the need for intrusive government regulation.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Cheapest. Mod points. Ever.
My deviantArt site
Amen to that, brother. Those commercials were so annoying I would turn off my radio rather than listening to them. Funny once, annoying the next twelve billion times.