Slashdot Mirror
Nanoscale Crystals May Be The Future of Silicon
Wire Tap writes: "With all the talk about how silicon is nearing its physical limits in computer systems, and other data processing applications, I found this article quite interesting. "[Brian] Korgel and chemical engineering professor Keith Johnston have found a method to make stable microscopic nanocrystals out of silicon that can emit light. And by toying with the size of the silicon nanostructures, they can change the color of the light that shines through. It can make essentially faster memory and generate less heat and radiate less power.""
Before you ask, I already have a boyfriend and he's more of a man than you'll ever be.
Oh Yea! I have seen your boyfriend on goatse.cx
What a find! I agree. You can do no better
You make a great few points... except they're all wrong. Allow me to prevent the flamebait mod that's coming down the pike...
.13 micron scale. Does that mean today we can't do it and it's not commercially viable??? Somehow I think not...
1) Five years ago we had no method of slapping transistors on a chip on the
2) The "fab" community (at least the ones who aren't into a certain British rawk group) will do whatever they damn well have to in order to produce what the market wants. They'll piss upwind in January while licking a metal signpost if it'll make them millions (billions?) in profit.
3)When is new technology every not "decades behind" current technology??? current technology is current cuz it was started a decade ago. Cost comes down over time (which is why my Apple IIGS won't sell for the thousand that was paid for it), as cheaper means of production are discovered.
Next time consider that perhaps the tech we have today isn't the pinnacle of existance and we might (believe it or not) be able to improve on it. It's going to take cash flow, a few wrong turns, and lots of people pissing on the parade, but it will happen.
Give a man fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life!
I resent that.....I'm an equal opportunity perv, I alternate the focus of my stare (occasionally even reaching I level :)). I also don't purposefully drop things and ask the lady to pick them up (thats so childish). No in the era of the mini-skirt (I love high-school) I am glad to pick up my own crap....and theirs too. Your idea of light-emitting implants is a solid one however and I encourage you to quickly patent it before some unscrupulous company comes along and steals it. I can think of several other features that might be usefull in implants: a space heater, modem jack, a movie projector, mp3 player, coin slot for purchase of beverages, etc...
"
this technology is PERFECT for people out in the middle of no where. www.xtratyme.com
Obviously, the semiconductor industry is especially interested in this are. IBM has done some work on "streching" the silicon domains in semiconductor devices to get them to behave differently. By doing this, they can get around some of the size limits that chip/device fabrication is currently running up against. I wish I could find the article I saw on this, but I think it was about a month ago.. What strikes me as really neat about this technology is the possibility for optical computing, rather than electron transport through semiconductors. With chemical and nanoscale design applied together, one could perhaps get different materials to emit different wavelenghts of light, opening up not just optical storage applications, but optical CPUs, memory, etc. I want to say that researchers have found some silicon/germanium crystals that do just this, based on the ratio of silicon to germanium. I think I read it in Science or Applied Physics Letters, but again, I'm not completely sure where I read this, but I know I've seen it somewhere. As a nitpicking aside, there is no such thing as microscopic nanocrystals. Nanocrystals are called such because one or more of their dimensions are on the nanoscale. For nanocrystalline silicon, all of its dimensions are nanoscale, and not microscale.
-When going for broke, go for Ithaca!
There was a very big interest in putting Cadmium sulfide inside zeolites. But it's not all that simple to get the crystals in place, and plugging the holes with sulfur is a big problem. Also, IF this works, no one knows how to incorporate these devices into something useful.
Actually, Gallium Arsenide (GaAs) semiconductors AND CPUs have been made - the older Cray Supercomputers at the NSA are nothing but GaAs computer architechure. The biggest problem with these devices was the heat output. To cool these systems, Cray had to put a recirculating ethylene glycol system into the computer, which ran the ethylene glycol OVER the computer chips and circuit boards to cool them. Since ethylene glycol is an electrical insulator there was no worry about short circuit with this system, provided it was kept absolutely dry. Filters were put into the recirculating unit to ensure dryness. It was such a neat visual effect, that Cray put in windows on the side of the casing so you could see the liquid cascade over the chips and boards and fall over the edge like a waterfall.
-When going for broke, go for Ithaca!
People spin their findings every day. Believe me, Silicon CAN only go so far. I know it sounds repetative, but it's true. Here's some numbers for you. Even Intel has admitted that the limits of conventional transistors are limited to 2.8 microns before things get so small that atoms start interfearing with each other and stuff begins to break down. Granted we're still a few years off of that. Even so, fabrication line costs go up exponentially as they approach this limit and by the year 2015, fab lines are expected to cost upwards of 100 BILLION dollars. That's not an exaderation either. MOLECULAR COMPUTERS are the way to go. Keep your eyes open. Don't be confused with all the other garbage about photonic laser surfaces or chromosome storage or any of that other (to use the words of Richard Feynmen) "Low level boloney". True control happens when you have individual current/voltage control over a single molecule, which has recently been done. It's called the Nanocell. Contact me for more information about related links. Ignore the hype, -Akaina
Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose.
...well, if his screen turned blue and he couldn't work, he may not notice. He could be using Win98.
Ceci n'est pas une sig.
"Rudolph... You're FIRED!"
Ceci n'est pas une sig.
Wouldn't those be uncomfortable, considering how much harder silicon is than the silicone traditionally used in non-saline breast implants?
"Sweet creeping zombie Jesus!"
-The Professor, Futurama
For some reason, rock candy comes to mind.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Granted, that doesn't necessarily help us put it on a chip, but that doesn't mean we won't find a way. (Also, I don't know how well we can control the output via the input. That may also limit its abilities.)
Apparently, of the rich, by the rich, for the rich.
The above link leads to a company that has been working with creating nanoscale materials in industrial quantities. I read an artical about their company years ago that went on to describe how their process would revolutionize engineering grade materials. Ordinary metals and materials made with nanoscale granularity had substantialy different physical properties than their microscale counterparts. For instance, copper forged with nanoscale granularity was as strong as steel, and some ceramics were flexible enough to be molded.
It's called sarcasm . Inject a bit of it into your brain and read my post again.
Or would you rather I smack you with a clue stick that looks curiously like a Louisville Slugger?
I was under the impression that the blue dye in LCD's only had a shorter lifespan on Windows machines, due to thier, ahem, constant use... *cough* BSOD *cough* :)
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
OK, not to sound like a Troll, but gimme a break. Quit posting this garbage about nanoscale technology. Crystals aren't even REMOTELY the right way to go. I'm doing work at Rice in collaboration with Yale and a few other major universities. Whoever keeps posting this stuff needs to be informed.
Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose.
Scientists at the University of Texas at Austin (UTA) are engaged in talks to either launch a start-up company or license the use of a breakthrough in nanocrystals that may lay the foundation for a new line of super small tech products.
So they used University money and equipment, and now there going to take the tech that was developed on the universtities dime, and start there own company? I can see it now, We developed this tech at your university, but if you want to use it, you got to pay us.
Or maybe I'm just grumpy from my morning drive.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
People said that VLSI was too expensive at one time, and yet, here we are...
10 years ago, a processor like the AMD Tbird or Intel P4 would've been impossible, and if it were, it'd be too cost prohibitive to make... Give it time, and the price will unfailingly come down as research gives way to better, cheaper methods. Everything is expensive until it leaves the laboratory
-------------------
LESBI
This poses a marketing problem.
At least it's not LEZBO
The Other Nate
Perhaps computers built with these new crystals will be fast enough to resist the onslaught of Slashdot. I wouldn't really know since I can't read the article.
----
Striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping each time that his next leap, will be the leap ho
5 words:
Light emitting silicon breast implants.
Brings a whole new meaning the "check out the headlights on that one."
Sacred mother of god, we're about to give you boys another reason to stare at a woman's chest while talking to her.
--Kara
Before you ask, I already have a boyfriend and he's more of a man than you'll ever be.
On a more serious note, several years ago I heard of a promising technology where a silicon chip was put through a normal manufacturing process, then dipped in one additional solution that "polished" the traces into light-carrying troughs. Supposedly the process was able to make optical chips (at lower speeds...) from standard silicon processes.
Anyone heard of this?
LOAD "SIG",8,1
LOADING...
READY.
RUN
According to a number of sources I won't disclose, (thank you very much), you-know-who has been using crstl mtrix technology for years in computers and, more importantly, for power storage, (enough to drive not only computers but vehicles and other gear.)
Knowing the way this crap goes, we'll probably have to wait about 10 years for crstl mtrix technology to be 'developed' into something both useful and available to the public. And who knows to what level you-know-who will have advanced at that point.
Ahh! The bullshit parade. "Oooh! Look at the wonderful science news! None of this has anything to do with mass manipulation & slave-nation control! The power structures of the world really DO have the best interests of the public at heart! Ah, plug me into the Discovery channel, my sweet, sweet opiate would never lie to me, would they?"
Mind you, I still think Slashdot is really cool. Despite the idiot flamers and general naivete, this site allows for actual communication to take place. It allows for the possibility of information dissemination and comparison. And assholes like me to whisper periodically. . .
-Fantastic Lad; Loud AND Annoying!
but we've no light controlled light amplifier
Of course we do! It is called a L.A.S.E.R.
L)ight A)mplification (by) S)timulated E)mission (of) R)adiation
We have LASERs that are "pumped" (ie, stimulated) via other LASERs. Indeed, a simple ruby rod laser uses a light source (the flash tube) to pump the ruby rod into lasing.
Granted, none of these devices are the size for an optical computer - but they aren't vaporware, either...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
What an idiot.
this looks like I am watching a bad rerun of "Back to the Future"!
I totally agree, I would like to add a few more things to think about to this list.
.ph0x
First, if we were to just throw our hands up in the air and say 'Damn, this costs too much!' every time we try something new we might as well still be living in caves or under rocks. Life is nothing but trial and error until we get it right, and that my friends costs money, time and creative juices. And if we cant make sacrifices then we will never advance.
Second, the statement "When is new technology every not "decades behind" current technology??? current technology is current cuz it was started a decade ago." is very true. Do you think our technology springs from the great mystical fountain of all-knowing located in the back of Grace-Land? No, it's slowly developed over time. Hence back to the hard work and whatnot. Technology is not instant gratification.
---
ps -aux | grep mind
So now they'll be making screens so small we need a microscope to see them. How will you ever play an adequate game of Quake on that??
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those that understand binary and those that do not.
just imagine the overclocking capabilites :-)
seriously though data speed is one thing that is becoming less important but power efficency is something that we really should start to worry about. Afetr all: a 6 litre V8 can be burnt off by a snail when theres not a petrol station in site.
Do Unto Others As You Would Have Others Do Unto You - ONLY HARDER!
It does bring up the possibility of a screen that is the size of a paperback book with, say, 600 dots per inch. A readable e-book. Or a notebook computer with a 15 inch screen and 4096 X 4096 resolution that doesn't need a backlight. The questions that need to be answered: How much light do these emit? How many can you pack in a square cm? How much power do they draw?
Best Slashdot Co
Not to be a total wanker on the parade but this is money down the drain. Why?
1. Becuase this technology has (currently) no way of being controlled to a point of being put in circuit. To put these crystals in a chip they have to be formed basically on the chip via some lithography method. So until technology devlops a way to put these cyrstals in a specific place this is all a bunch of cool but useless. 2.
2. "Researchers heat a mix of an organic solvent called hexane and a hydrocarbon ligand known as octanol to 450 degrees Celsius inside a titanium chamber." Yeah, this is gonna go over great in the fab community. Now we have to redesign our lithgoraphy to take place indide a titanium chamber at 450 C.
3. Price to performace. A lot of people make claims about new technology but when it comes down to it the reason we have our current tech is becuase its cheap(Comparitively) to put 20 million tranistors on a chip. This new techonolgy is several decades behind and probably will cost A LOT more. There are a lot of techonolgies better than Si transitors but the reason we use it is beacuse in the end comapnies sell a product, not get Tenure at a university. Technology breakthroughs from universities are exteremly importatnt but when they go off claiming to revolutionize commercial industry they are only fluffing there own feathers. Wait until a real company starts inversting in it and not some sucker venture capitalist.
Cthulhu for president!
Nanoscale crystals for really small new age healers.
A man without a God is like a fish without a bicycle.
If you would of asked me this question 5 years ago my answer would of been yes. I would of gone on to say that eventually due to the laws of physics scientists can only push silicon so far and will eventually have to find new types of chips, biochips for example.
But every week now there seems to be another article of scientists breaking and extending technology's "limits". Silicon chips included. I'm now convinced there is no real end for silicon chips or any techonology for that matter, that whatever the current "limit" may be, its only the limit of our imganiations and ingenuity.
This process doesn't seem new to me, because it looks surprisingly like the one a French group has invented a few years back. (Do a search for Fievet, and Polyol process). I think Fievet even has some patents on the synthesis procedure.
There are actually many physical methods to make nanocrystals of inorganic materials: ball milling, synthesis in a cavitation field, spray pyrolysis. There are also many other (wet) chemical techniques, of which this is one: water/oil microemulsions, polymer solutions.
The problem with the physical methods is the particle agglomeration, as was indicated in the article. However, the chemical synthesis methods also have problems, since you're stuck with a templating agent that surrounds your nanocrystals. This may be hindering any practical use of the nanocrystals... But you can't burn off the templating agent, because then the particles will agglomerate again.
I never thought I would see the words "dylithium crystal matrix", "Deep Space Nine" and "Flux Capacitors" together in the same post...welcome to the 21st Century everyone, for real, this time! cheers
"In the end, we all fall back on fiction." -- Lonely Planet
Wouldn't using optic crystals lead to the corresponding problem of needing big-ass photoreceptor/converters? Seems like it would just be a big waste for a processor.
Erik
"You," Bite me.
"Each and every one of you." Bite me.
My guess is that the same is true of nanocrystals.
When talking about light memories and light computers etc. we must face the fact that one basic light component is missing:
The Light Transistor
We can store light (the light flipflop), we can transport light effictivly, overlay it and all that, but we've no light controlled light amplifier.
Currently we've to take the way around through electricity. Receive the light, transform it to an electrical signal, amplify the signal electrically and retransform the signal to light. This way we loose all the benefits light would have.
Until we find a way to amplify light, directly controlled by light there will be no light computers, and light memories will stay in labratory only.
If one day someone would discover in example some crystal that if shined upon from the side, will change it's up/down transperncy then nothing will stop the light computer, without that all other light components are for funny experiments only.
--
Karma 50, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt.
Power goes to heat, actually. These two are equivalent. Well, a little bit of power goes to EM radiation, but in a RAM chip that's miniscule.
Slashdot big surprise of the day: Offtopic titty humor scores 8 "Funny" moderation points in two separate posts while the factual corrections score none of any sort! What a tremendously unexpected outcome! Facts mean nothing while breast humor scores big! Who would have ever guessed such a thing on Slashdot?
this is where electron spin comes into play?
Facts mean nothing while breast humor scores big! Who would have ever guessed such a thing on Slashdot?
See the logo at the top of the screen? The one that says "News for Nerds, Stuff that matters?"
I don't know about where you come from, but here on earth full, ripe breasts with prominent nipples sticking out like chocolate gum drops are stuff that matters. Few things more so.
Your friend,
--Shoeboy
This link from July 24th on the same site is actually a good description of some further applications of nanoscale crystals, ranging from lasing to solar cells to bone implants.
--Brandon / Split Infinity Music
Must... not... say.... it.... Must... be... strong.... Can't... stop... it...
</Shatner>
Imagine a Beowolf cluster of these!
Sorry... couldn't help it.... ;)
=tkk
Bill Gates - Creationist?!?
On the other hand, if properly configured....
Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.
I don't see how millions of little Billy Crystals can help make my computer any faster... funnier maybe, but not faster.
"He was a wise man who invented beer." -- Plato
we care a lot about the garbage pail kids - they never lie
we care a lot about transformers 'cause there's more than meets the eye
Kinda off topic, but one must think...
Gray goo... nano machines tearing apart things and rebuilding stuff.. old, junked computers..
Could there be some way to feed gray goo sort of stuff old computers, and it sit there and break it down and sort out the individual elements? Could be a good source of silicon, lead, iron, plastics, and many other things that computers are made from (granted I don't think plastic is an element, but still... customizeable gray goo), while recycling at the same time.
-Andrew
(well, at least nobody can patent this process now..)
It's called sarcasm . Inject a bit of it into your brain and read my post again.
I understand that you were using sarcasm, but you were using it to make a serious point. You were making a (valid) criticism that slashdot is, and has been for years, positively swarming with developmentally delayed emotional cripples with extremely juvenile senses of humor. This is despite that fact that the site and its readers pride themselves on their highbrow technical discussions.
I was defending the clownish and immature behavior, you were lampooning it.
HTH,
--Shoeboy
Why stop there? Imagine a bucket of "display paint" that you could apply to an entire room (walls and ceiling), and then connect to some kind of output device that would let you configure the output parameters.
I don't think this work is all that new. People have been producing nanocrystals for 10 years or so (check out work by Alivisatos, Bawendi, others). The trick is to get the size distribution narrow, and then to get them into something that's more processible, like a semiconducting polymer, then you can follow simpler fabrication techniques to place them on circuit (and not have perform lithography in a titanium chamber at 450 degrees). It's true that these sorts of silicon nanocrystals would be better suited to biomedical applications, as the goodnanocrystals out there are made of toxic chemicals like CdS and CdSe, hence the line, "Putting cadmium into people doesn't sound so great,". But the article doesn't say anything about size distribution, or whether they've made electroluminescent structures, or just gotten photoluminescence. I just think it should be taken with a grain of salt.
"Now gluttony and exploitation serves eight!" - TV's Frank
This is awsome. I will take one Quantum computer please... hehe
1) Current litho technology exposes a pattern onto a photo resist layer, which is developed to expose the underlying layer which is then etched away. I see no reason why these same techniques wouldn't work with nano crystals. Its a matter of resist and etch chemistry.
2) High temperatures and special containment vessels are the norm in fabs. You don't need litho under these conditions, you only need the deposition step under these conditions. Its very similar to current Plasma Vapor Deposition and CVD processes, high temperatures, nasty chemical/plasma mixtures all inside very specialized reaction chambers. Nothing new there.
3) The cost issue is always an issue and cost decreases as technology matures.
Alright. From a chemical engineering standpoint, this is going to be really tough. When you design a chemical plant, you can figure out process streams or simulate the process using programs such as Hysys. Great. But you can be rest assured that those conditions will last all of two minutes out of the year. If you are lucky.
Now, in this case, they are using a batch process (as opposed to a steady state (continuous) or semi-batch process). This helps in that the environment variables (i.e. Q, pressure, temp, cheese to mayonaise ratios, etc.) can be fixed easier. However, I would like to see how they are planning on keeping the variance between batches to a minimum, and do it effectively and efficiently (more stress put on effectively and efficiently).
This, in turn, is dependent on exactly how close they need to get to the previous batch to be effective. For example, if they have to be .1 standard deviations in order to get a good product, then, well, congrats on the idea, but until you can find a way to produce it, it does no one any good. This, by the way, is why you have lot numbers on paint, carpet, etc.; there is always some variance.
Alright. I'll get off my soapbox now.
Someone should do a research project to see the average amount of time that passes between when a new technology is mentioned on /. and when a product actually comes out. I expect that /. is pretty far ahead of the curve. I'm guessing somewhere in the 5 year range.
Hi, Luke.
Two words: optical processing Having the ability to control the wavelength of light that passes through leads to a virtual unlimited array of data representation. No limiting electrical states, you could process data based on light wavelength and with a virtually unlimited value of wavelengths to choose from, the processing power of a chip based on those crystals would be insane.
Better yet, could these nanocrystals be fashioned into a powder that you could snort up your nose? This could even let you experience colors outside the normal human visual spectrum!
Hey,
Knock that shit off.
--Shoeboy
Please note, though, that this has nothing to do with making faster Si-based MOSFETs (i.e. smaller transistors). If you're interested in that, look here, here (great story), or here to see just a handful of the ideas people have. With all of these things in development, don't expect anything to overtake Si as the dominant technology for a long, long time (~10 years, maybe even). ;-)
Often when I read about an amazing new substance that's been developed on nanotech scale, I wonder what these things will look like on a macro-scale. If they use these new silicon nanocrystals to make an awesome new display, will it have some other cool properties? For example, could they be made into a thin, flexible display? Or maybe those stupid cellophane-roll displays they had in Red Planet (ugh)?
My deviantArt site
Breast implants were made of silicone , not silicon.
I've been feeling up my computer for no good reason?
That's depressing.
--Shoeboy
--Kara
Before you ask, I already have a boyfriend and he's more of a man than you'll ever be.
Dow Corning