Slashdot Mirror
Caldera to Open Part of UNIX Source
Andy Tai writes: "According to this Caldera press release, Caldera is beginning to release the components of the original Unix source code under the GPL or other licenses (such as Caldera's Open Access license). While some of these Unix utilities (grep and awk) may not be very useful, since GNU equivalents have been available for many years, the original Unix tools going GPL has a big symbolic meaning--the original Unix is gradually becoming Free Software! Unix was the giant RMS aimed to replace. Now GNU is gradually taking the place of the original Unix."
Rather, GNU is slowly becoming irrelevant as people decide to release free software on their own terms.
Besides, just cause the source is being opened doesn't mean that Unix is becoming free. It's just becoming open source. This seems to be the same ghastly mistake that I've seen many people modded down for. Surely such an error should be clarified on the front page... unless it's really that confusing and we should just admit that the ideologies so highly regarded (and viciously defended) here are arranged as a house of cards similar to Microsoft's own source code.
Hey, at least "embrace, extend, crush to death" is easy to follow along with.
I would say this is indeed very useful, if you have any Legacy UNIX machines still operating. Now their (in some cases) ancient software can be updated or bugfixed where they were previously unsupported. Similar programs, like grep, can be comprehensively compared for differences in functionality. They can also be generally compared for efficiency of code, and (in the case of GNU compatible licensing) even be possibly merged with their GNU equivalents.
This is, for many I'll guess, more than just symbolic.
And I'll bet that RMS feels damn fuzzy inside...
This would have been great ten years ago, but today the original "awk", "grep", etc are worthless. Even when I started with Unix ~1990 the first thing I did when I got a new Sun box was install the GNU tools. Even then the commercial versions were generally inferior.
If I were the cynical type (who me?) I'd say that Caldera has realised that everybody prefers the GNU utilities, and that their proprietary versions have no commercial value. They figure they might as well score some PR points by releasing the code.
Contrast this with IBM, which has ported and Freed it's JFS - a modern file system that represents an import feature (and selling point) of AIX. So when will Caldera release SCO's clustering code? Probably ten year's after Linux clustering is mature.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
Unix was the giant RMS aimed to replace. Now GNU is gradually taking the place of the original Unix."
So from now on I guess we will have to call it GNU/Unix.
give me all your garmonbozia
Contents of limited source release (requiring signed licence agreement): regexp libarary (including grep), awk, and AIM perfomance benchmarks.
...
Contents of GNU libraries: autotools, bash, binutils, C library, chess, emacs, gcc
http://www.gnu.org/software/software.html
What's so great about AT&T unix, anyway?
The source code was distributed with UNIX, but the terms of the license pretty much said not to sell the code or give it away. It was open source (the souce comes with the product), just not "free" in the way that that the GPL states or as in beer. BSD was originally rooted in college students rewriting large chunks of this code as part of a course in operating systems, the code made its way into textbooks and could be bought and sold. AT&T didn't like this obviously. I remember large parts of this story being in "Geeks (1.0 or 2.0)" so you might go there for more details.
By the By, linux is not based on ANY of this code, it was written from scratch, which is why it is posix but not unix (and only posix if the distribution is posix, many fail this test).
I'm not saying it's a completely bad thing, just take off the rose colored glasses. OSS copied Unix, mostly replaced it, and this is an attempt by Caldera to try and get some market share back, or just throw out some (now irrelevant) code that won't do them any good any more, thanks to Linux et al. They were #1 in servers, you guys copied their functionality and gutted their customer base, so what should they do now?
And it is 'free' but hardly on their own terms.
I can almost see it... a few years from now... GNU IS NOW UNIX!
BWAHAHAHAHA!
Take-off every
Mainly the historical value. People want to look at the code to see how things were done then. It ran on, IIRC, 8 bit machines as well as 16 bit. It might be interesting to port it to a 286, if you could find one, as the 286 probably had as much, or more, power as the PDP-8.
Best Slashdot Co
"Rather, GNU is slowly becoming irrelevant as people decide to release free software on their own terms." NOT!
A quick search on sourceforge finds 12,038 of 25,460 projects use the GPL. The developers choice, mostly. So their so-called "own terms" is the GPL in the overwhelming majority of cases. The remaining 13000+ projects are divided amongst a bunch of different licenses, none of which comes close to the GPL's 12,000.
GNU is far far far from irrelevant. Get your facts straight before splattering mis-truths about.
Maybe I misunderstand you, but to me (and yes, I use the GPL for my projects) I kindof equate releasing code under the GPL with supporting the GNU project, at least it's ideals of software freedom.
Umm... what?
Linux costs not only more because of the frequent updates which require new cdrom's to be bought if you don't have a high speed Internet connection.
If you want to you can purchase them on CD, but chances are you know someone who has a high speed connection. Even when I was a lad on my 14.4K modem (EWW!) I asked my ISP to burn CDs for me. No cost other then a dollar or two for the media and their time.
Linux requires a *lot* of maintenance, work doable only by the relatively few high-paid Linux administrators
Ever set up AIX? IRIX? Solaris? Guess what, Joe average can't install *NIX on his own either. I contend that linux is the cheapest *NIX out there. First off, the OS is free (beer, speech, otherwise). Yes, you can pay money for a CD and manual, but it's SO much cheaper than buying IRIX, and there's no free download option there! There are LUGs across the world and I dare say there are far more admins booting up linux than any other *NIX so while yes, a good linux tech is spendy, they're a lot easier to find than an IRIX tech (and still much cheaper).
Most software on *NIX can be replaced by already written or partially written GPL code. The rest you might need to hire a C programmer for, but it's better than paying large amounts of $ for an off the shelf IRIX app.
How is linux unstable? Two of my boxen have NEVER crashed outside of a power outage. When I set up a linux server, it goes in the corner and doesn't get touched. Yes, X windows has added some instability with certain hardware but I think most of that is fixed now. Aside from one workstation with a broken X version, I have yet to see my workstations crash.
I don't have time to continue on about the other falsehoods in your post. I will say this though, YES, I agree that ext2 blows chunks. Reiser all the way. Other than that, I disagree with just about everything you said in this post.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
Few years ago, Santa Cruz Operation (aka SCO, a long-time producer and seller of Unix for i386) bought the AT&T Unix sources (and the name) from Novell. Few months ago, Caldera acquired SCO. So Caldera now owns Unix.
By the way: Ray Noorda, one of Caldera's founders (or financees) and former Novell CEO, was the guy who BOUGHT the Unix sources during his time at Novell. VERY bright guy he is!
ix
While releasing it is a great gesture and a nice thing to do. And it is pretty cool in the fact that at least someone has gotten the clue that older software should be set free. It still feels wierd.
Kinda like your ex-wife returning years later saying "sorry, will you take me back?" after you've gotten remarried.
Thanks for releasing it though. It will make great material for acedemic discussions and dissection.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
That's what happens when something stagnates long enough. It gets replaced by something else that is better. Note that this would not happen to Microsoft; they keep adding new value to their product faster than it can be replicated by someone else. That way they prevent competitors from copying them and stealing their market.
Even Slashdot wants to hide some things
The GNU versions of grep and awk are much better than the original UNIX variants. Also, people have had access to the GNU versions for a long time and they are well within their capabilities to support any of the arguments/options that their UNIX counterparts do. With that out of the world, what does this whole Open Sourcing of grep and awk mean?
It's rather like throwing us Linux users a bone. Nothing more. The aforementioned utilities are aged and not terribly useful. Granted, this is a start. But until we see some SVR5 kernel source code and perhaps some POSIX implementation code, this is nothing more than getting a headline on slashdot.
I think Caldera expects some immediate return here. Regretfully they can't expect this in terms of monetary means. I am not going to buy Caldera Linux because they are nice and release two utilities.
What could potentially be useful is the regex engine. Even though the DFA and NFA engines are both pretty specified and there are GNU implementations of both DFA and NFA compliant engines, there are the matters of POSIX regex which are implemented halfway. This regex engine has been POSIX certified which means that implementational considerations may be dealt with. That is if Caldera was going to use GPL for this. If Caldera uses its own license, which pretty much restricts people from using derivative code, it's rather useless anyway except for educational purposes.
Now when I see an anonymous CVS repository containing the kernel, threading library implementation et al and these are signed with GPL/BSD compliant licensing, then I'll jump. Before that, I'll just sit tight.
Alex
Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. -Ayn Rand
Sure seem to be a lot of people confusing GNU and GPL. They're different things.
If a Unix uses the GNU suite of tools, then how is GNU irrelevant?
If a Unix is released under the GPL license, then how does that have anything to do with the GNU suite of tools?
[
Caldera bought SCO, got the old UNIX code with it. Caldera, a Linux company, is building combination systems that will take advantage of Linux's offerings AND SCO's tech. The stuff from SCO's tech that isn't going to help them have a competitive advantage is being openned to all. Given that they paid for it, it is nice of them to let the rest of the Linux world play.
. . .
Why anyone can open source virtually anything.
This may be a simple argument, and I know full well (now nearly entering my second decade in business for myself) that there are pitfalls and management snafus galore in what I am about to say
. . . _but_ . . .
[preamble] for all the years I fought to understand what it takes to make a living independantly in business, and damn, I tried and only when I'm getting old do I lear the implest of thinsg a child could understand by rote (repetition learning) there are forces afoot in business which are a simple function of wider systems - of capital, society and economics for sure, you've come across those before - but most of all in terms of indidual motivation to go out and set up a business.
[more preamble] I like to tell colleagues (who are cherished people for having put up with me for all these years - (we're a partnership not a corp)) how when Seymour Cray moved from Cray Computer to set up Cray Research (Cray 3 and 4, which though amazing never came to production) and even when he had _all_ that kudos, respect, and massive funding(well, 100mln usd is still big to me;), of all the 50,000 or so people who were directly or indirectly dependant on his old firm, only 6 or so - just a handfull - people went with him to the new venture. It's a story that makes me sober even after a long cold beer.
[now to the point] What I am saying is that even if IBM or SUN or Microsoft opened their crown jewels to the public and gave them away - and I'm presuming here for the sake of agument that Microsoft giving away it's source would not make them the laughing stock of the known universe - then who just who is going to set up and compete with them?
I'll qualify that statement a little bit. I guess if you are a small and needy company, you could get very hurt by doing this. But my perspective as the founder of such a company is that - short of someone else completely bs talking away your customers, which is always a real likelihood, and something to be managed in any event if you want to survive - maybe _then_ you don't want to throw your tech and IP into the hands of ruthless competitors.
My point stands, however (I think) that the amount of energy and resources required to set up and compete with any company, whatever the size, is huge.
I know you are saying that if I gave you the secrets to my business, then you'd be at some VC's door and getting funding in a second. But then, if your memory is good, or you have a penchant for studying financial markets, ask yourself why there are always industry or philosophy based booms and bust. - someone works out the internet is a good idea and everyone and their dog gets on the bandwagon, leaving no funding or attention for anything else. Remember a little further back to the conglomerate boom of the seventies. It was just the same. Or for railroads (the very reason why the NYSE exists today because all the burnt investors who'd bought worthless paper wanted a systematised environment to offload their bum purchases).
Community - financial techincal social or ad - hoc is a _movement_, it takes some motivating and working on. Individuals with good ideas, or sometimes even good observations on code (outside of open - source that is) so rarely make a difference. Politics and business is about propogation of relatively simple ideas. Therefore observations based on early knowledge about complex underlying systems are rarely capitalised or successful. The world is looking elsewhere.
I hope that some guys over in some companies who are large enough to not feel frightened by the downside to what I say listen up. You _can_ open source everything , especially if you are big and strong. In that spirit I just tried to convey to you some smple thoughts which - believe you me, or pity me as you will, took me a good deal of investment to come up with over the years.
Anyone wanting a more intelligent or expanded argument better reply and I'll come back with what I can later.
GUI - GUI Unix Is...
(This will parse perfectly if you are conversant with Ardean grammar)
I'd be careful with the use of the word 'original' - it implies that you're getting the source from circa 1970 or something.
Actually what you're getting is the current version of the source as used in the latest version of Unix (Open Unix 8 as they're calling it).
Read the article! They release some tools under the GPL, but the OS is not released under the GPL, nor are parts of that OS. The source of the OS (Open Unix 8) is released to members of the development program who 'request' the sourcecode (hey, where did we hear that before!) :)
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.