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A Physicist with the Air Force

An anonymous submitter - anonymous because of the database crash that wiped out several hours of data today, sigh - sent in this tale about the duties of a physicist during World War II.

45 of 221 comments (clear)

  1. Don't ride the bomb... by mikeage · · Score: 4, Funny
    From the article:

    At the pilot's insistence (I will not repeat his heated words), I dislodged the target by jumping on it while hanging from a bomb-bay rack and wearing a parachute, just in case.

    For those who didn't read the article (after all, if you did, this comment is worthless to you), he's talking about a training "dummy aircraft" for gunners to practice shooting at that didn't drop from the bomber that was carrying, and jammed in the bomb bay, preventing the doors from closing (which meant they couldn't land). Quite a hilarious mental picture if you ask me ;)

    --
    -- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
    1. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by warlock · · Score: 2, Funny

      Heh... that reminded me of the ending of Dr. Strangelove. Only it wasn't a dummy target, it was a nuke. Oh, and he wasn't wearing a parachute. Not that it would matter if he did anyway.

    2. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by blang · · Score: 2

      That's what struck me, too. I'm trying to remember the name of the actor who rode that bomb. It sounds like a proverb or something. Slim Pickens or something like that.

      --
      -- Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
    3. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by mmol_6453 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Interesting relationship:

      In the movie, Slim Pickens (here for reference) is the guy who causes the atomic bomb to drop from the plane. (Jumping up and down on the bomb was one of his attempts.)

      In reality, Alex Green(writer of the article), jumped up and down on a plane trailer to get it out of the towing plane. Of course, the more interesting part is the fact that Alex also helped make the equipment that would cause the real atomic bombs to be dropped properly.

      --
      What's this Submit thingy do?
    4. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by Maj.+Kong · · Score: 2

      Goddamn them Rooskies, shearing the teleflex drive cable with that SAM. I got them doors open and hared lips on Bear Creek.

      Waaaaaahhhooooo!

      Maj. Kong (dec'd)

      --

      Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.
  2. A great way to do business... by mikeage · · Score: 2
    Our streamlined procedures took advantage of the fact that officers had a monthly liquor allowance but enlisted men did not. To secure a special slide rule, the requesting officer would pay with two bottles.

    Yeah! I was born too late... ~sigh~

    --
    -- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
    1. Re:A great way to do business... by markmoss · · Score: 2
      Of course, if liquor was what you're most interested in, too bad you weren't in the Soviet Air Force. According to the book by a Soviet pilot who defected with his MIG-25 (Belenko?), the hydraulics system of that plane was run open loop with pure alcohol. That is, when they fueled the plane, they'd also fill a large tank with alcohol, and it would pour out during the flight. The ground crews were usually drunk (and any officers and pilots with insufficient self-discipline, also), but mainly bottles of that alcohol became the "currency" to get your name moved to the top of the waiting list for an apartment, to get maintenance done once you had an apartment, or to buy things on the black market. Finally, an auditor wondered why the jet fuel and hydraulic fluid consumption didn't match -- so they dumped large quantities of kerosene out in the woods...


      America in WWII temporarily became a mostly socialist system -- and liquor used for bribes is a good example of how things get done in socialism.

  3. Having Fun by Alien54 · · Score: 2
    In our first launch from a bomb bay, the target got jammed against the tow plane's fuselage in such a way as to prevent the bomb-bay doors from closing. So we couldn't land. At the pilot's insistence (I will not repeat his heated words), I dislodged the target by jumping on it while hanging from a bomb-bay rack and wearing a parachute, just in case. After that experience, we mounted the target externally and soon had a usable offset tow-target system.

    Let's face it, probably the most fun most scientists have is in the middle of a war. If nothing else, it makes for great drinking stories, and it is often easier to get things done.

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  4. Slide Rule Club by Dr.+Dew · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At first I thought he was kidding about the slide rule club - I guess we're this generation's equivalent.

    It's a little sobering to think of these engineering problems in their human context - even ignoring the fact that he's talking about bombers, it's striking to think that they had enough data to calculate 70-to-1 fighter-to-B29 kill ratios on rear attacks and 3-to-1 kill ratios on front attacks.

    The opportunity to make adjustments to decisions as theoretical data are replaced by empirical data is exciting and rewarding. But I'm glad my adjustments don't have an immediate impact with respect to people living and dying.

  5. Payment: Old Granddad! by hyrdra · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is an article which really makes me appriciate what we have today. If someone today told me I had to perform computations on a slide-rule while fending from enemy attack, I would think they're joking. But this is what they actually went through.

    My favorite line of the entire article (in reference to the fabrication of slide rules used in the missions):

    But, to avoid paperwork and delivery delays, I chose to have them made at the Harmon Field sheet-metal shop on Guam. At that time, there wasn't much combat damage to B-29s. So the repair crews readily gave up some of their beach time for a few bottles of Old Granddad.

    Yep, things we're certainly different back then!

    --


    "I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
    1. Re:Payment: Old Granddad! by BigBlockMopar · · Score: 2

      If someone today told me I had to perform computations on a slide-rule while fending from enemy attack, I would think they're joking. But this is what they actually went through.

      Where I used to work, we had a cranky old curmudgeon of an engineer. He was great fun; he knew how to use AutoCAD, but he hated it. Every time Windows would BSoD on him, out would come the slide rule from its padded case. And he was an artist with it.

      --
      Fire and Meat. Yummy.
    2. Re:Payment: Old Granddad! by nathanm · · Score: 2
      But, to avoid paperwork and delivery delays, I chose to have them made at the Harmon Field sheet-metal shop on Guam. At that time, there wasn't much combat damage to B-29s. So the repair crews readily gave up some of their beach time for a few bottles of Old Granddad.

      Yep, things we're certainly different back then!
      Actually, things are still somewhat like this in the military. I was in the Air Force for 6 years, and saw this kind of thing go on routinely. Nothing illegal, just the shop giving your work priority over others' because they owe you a favor, or you bought them a case of beer or something.
  6. Re:Typical techer by Once&FutureRocketman · · Score: 2

    Silly frosh! Grad turkeys don't live in the houses, although I suppose he might have been a social member.

    --

    "Research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing." -- Wernher von Braun

  7. So, they're hackers... by Rimbo · · Score: 3, Funny

    And I especially note this one:

    ``Requests for special slide rules grew. To respond quickly, I set up a paperwork-free design and production service. Our streamlined procedures took advantage of the fact that officers had a monthly liquor allowance but enlisted men did not. To secure a special slide rule, the requesting officer would pay with two bottles. I would pass these contributions along to the enlisted members of the 949th Topographical Company, who did the drafting, calculations, and reproductions. Somehow our service enjoyed a de facto priority second only to the production of mission maps.''

    My God...it's the grandfather of "Free as in Beer!" :)

    1. Re:So, they're hackers... by Rimbo · · Score: 2

      "No, hackers break into computer systems."

      Uhm...no.

      I am a hacker, but I do not break into computer systems, or do anything illegal of any kind for that matter. Perhaps you were thinking of "crackers?"

    2. Re:So, they're hackers... by The+Mayor · · Score: 2

      Anyone remember a day when crackers were called hackers, and there was no distinction between the two that resulted from intentions? Yes, long before crackers were crackers, they were hackers. And hackers didn't mind such a distinction. You see, most people didn't write about us.

      -sigh-

      --
      --Be human.
  8. Re:MySQL by MSG · · Score: 2

    Now look at the later comparison, titled "Open Source Databases: As The Tables Turn".

    Both of the comparisons that have been done on phpbuilder.net have put PostgreSQL ahead on heavily loaded sites (like slashdot). MySQL's lead has always really been connection times. However, it's a total flop under many concurrent connections.

  9. Not quite graphitics... by Giant+Hairy+Spider · · Score: 2

    This reminds me of an excellent Isaac Asimov story. I think he foresaw our reactions to the history of computation quite well.

    --

    ---
    You'd be surprised at the broadband connection available to things crawling around in your hair.
  10. Funny with a Twist by Bluesee · · Score: 2

    The article was funny, and a good reminiscence, but:

    Shockley, Teller, and LeMay

    what an unholy trinity that is!

    Shockley, the Nobel Prize winner who determined to devote his life to eugenics;

    Teller, the brilliant scientist who pushed the DoD further into the realm of "The Super", and beyond;

    and, finally, LeMay (brilliantly portrayed by George C. Scott in "Dr. Strangelove"), the hawk's hawk who would stop at nothing to achieve global superiority for his country, even at the expense of the American people.

    These men, while they performed great deeds in their lifetimes, are to me a good example of how excessive hubris in the scientific and technical arena can be a very dangerous thing, indeed. None of these men can be considered Great Men, in my opinion, because they wandered from the path of integrity and truth in their zealous pursuit of technology for technology's sake.

    But the article makes for a great read, and I'm sure in their day these men were admired and respected. I have the advantage of hindsight, and hope that we can all learn from these men how, for some vicious mole of nature in them, even the greatest of men are prone to fall!

    --
    SDMI: Finally! Music that won't rip or burn! Brought to you by the fine folks at RIAA.
    1. Re:Funny with a Twist by handorf · · Score: 2

      What? You don't think we should follow Teller's idea and use H-Bombs (about 6 in the 20MT range, IIRC) to give Alaska a really kickass bay?

      Also IIRC, isn't there still some controversy as to if it was really Teller's design for the Super? There was a fair ammount of evidence that the design was really Ulam's and Teller stole it, wasn't there?

      Of course, IMHO, Teller is simply a nutbar, but that's just me. Atomics for civil engineering my arse!

      --
      -- IANAEG - I am not an elder god.
    2. Re:Funny with a Twist by Bluesee · · Score: 2

      yah, Teller also stole all the Star Wars funding from, um, Woodruff...

      Here.

      So I wouldn't put it past him. A nasty man...

      --
      SDMI: Finally! Music that won't rip or burn! Brought to you by the fine folks at RIAA.
  11. Re:MySQL by teg · · Score: 2


    Postgres is ENTIRELY Free software, and is only licensed under the GPL, unlike MySQL, which has a commercial version, and the GPL version, and the closed source version, of which the GPL version is always behind.



    Your statements are not correct:

    1. PostgreSQL is not published under the GPL, but under a BSD license.
    2. MySQL releases their standard releases as GPL now - they're not lagging behind a commercial product. You can however buy a non-GPL version if you want, as there is a single company owning the code (or having rights to it).


    That said, I much prefer PostgreSQL - good transaction support (no switching of table types), subselects, foreign keys, better performance under load, triggers etc. are just some of the reason why it's a better database.

    (Disclaimer: I work for Red Hat, which is selling a version of PostgreSQL.)

  12. not the end of the world by Mike+Schiraldi · · Score: 2

    anonymous because of the database crash that wiped out several hours of data today, sigh

    That's okay. Losing Slashdot for the day was bad, but it's worth it when you picture all the trolls and karma whores desperately trying to take advantage of the second chance to get first post on the Mac metadata story.

    "Gah! I click Reply and it goes back to the main page! But i need to post, it says 0 comments! Reply! Reply! Augghhh!"

  13. No Shit, Sherlock... by Guppy06 · · Score: 2

    "To facilitate the calculation, I developed a special slide rule that used the general principle of multiplying two quantities by mechanically adding distances proportional to their logarithms."

    He pretty much described right there the basic concept of any sliderule ever used by anybody. All that was needed was to figure out the trig formula and making the numbers different on a normal rule. And for this the Army Air Corps needed a PhD candidate? I didn't know they had PHBs that long ago.

    BTW: Is it my imagination or do we no longer need P tags?

    1. Re:No Shit, Sherlock... by Guppy06 · · Score: 2

      "Interesting, though, that nobody else came up with it before this particular man did."

      I was harping on that particular paragraph's wording. He seems to be claiming credit for the sliderule in general (something the author points out at the bottom of the article that has been in use since the 17th century or so).

      In today's terms, it would be like me saying "I developed a new, specialized computer for our B-2 bombers. It has a small hexadecimal LCD screen, a number pad, and four buttons, one each for addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. With it, the crews can enter one number, press the multiplication button, enter a second number and receive the product of those two numbers. For more complicated calculations, I've even inclucded a small memory for storing values."

  14. incorrect simulation by kisrael · · Score: 3, Insightful

    After six weeks of data collection and statistical analysis, I completed my report. My analysis showed that, in attacks on our B-29s from the rear, it cost the enemy 70 lost fighter planes, on average, to shoot down one of our bombers. But in frontal attacks, the Japanese lost only three fighters for every B-29 they downed. This result differed starkly from the results of a massive combat simulation study, done back home, that had concluded that B-29s would be most vulnerable to attacks from behind! In light of the new findings, bomber formations and tactics were modified to bring greater firepower to bear against frontal attacks. These changes, together with some minor technical modifications, largely solved the problem

    Any guesses what they were doing wrong with the "massive combat simulation study"?

    --
    SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    1. Re:incorrect simulation by markmoss · · Score: 2
      Any guesses what they were doing wrong with the "massive combat simulation study"? Just a guess, but since they obviously couldn't let the gunners use real bullets when Americans were flying the fighters, they didn't properly figure how much easier it is to get the tail turrets onto a plane flying along behind you (usually less than 50 mph difference in speed), as compared to using the nose turret to hit a plane oncoming at about 900 mph relative velocity. On the other hand, any fighter pilot could tell them that from the tail he could keep a bomber in his sights until it went down or he ran out of ammo, while from a nose attack you were lucky to put a dozen rounds on target. Not enough to do real damage unless you got really lucky (e.g., through the windshield and into the pilots.)


      Or maybe they just failed to simulate desperate Japanese pilots using kamikaze tactics. From the tail, there was plenty of time to shoot an attacker down, from the nose it was probably too late by the time they locked on target. And a zero hitting head-on would either destroy the whole cockpit or shear a wing off if on target.

  15. The efficiency of a dictatorship by Bob_Robertson · · Score: 2, Interesting
    How very true, it is *much* easier to get things done in a dictatorship, if you're on the dictators good side.

    There's no question that the most effective and efficient form of "governance" is a benevolent dictatorship.

    Two problems: It's never benevolent for long, and it's never benevolent to dissent.

    It's also illustrative to consider the concept of "governance", and why efficient "governance" is a really lousy thing anyway.

    That's why the U.S. "government" is designed at its inception to be as inefficient as possible, and why it took four-score and seven years before someone was able to install an efficient "governance" under it. And that brought war.

    Bob-

    --
    The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
  16. Oh hi ho and a bottle of rum by BierGuzzl · · Score: 2

    It's amazing what a little "alcohol lubrication" can do to speed up the production line!

  17. backwards vulnerability wild ass guess by StandardDeviant · · Score: 3, Funny

    sign change error? ;-)

    (how many times, if you were a technical student, have you ever calculated a negative mass or something and realized it was a simple sign error somewhere in the middle of a pages-long computation?)

  18. not really.. by Danse · · Score: 2

    What you say is somewhat true, but if you know why you're taking losses in a certain situation you're more likely to make the most effective adjustments.

    --
    It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
  19. Division of labor by Animats · · Score: 2

    This is an article which really makes me appreciate what we have today. If someone today told me I had to perform computations on a
    slide-rule while fending from enemy attack, I would think they're joking. But this is what they actually went through.


    It's not like the pilot had to fly and use a slide rule at the same time. The B-29 carried a crew of 10 to 14. Computational tasks were performed by the navigator, co-pilot, and bombardier.


    Pilot workload in today's warcraft is higher than it was back then. All those jobs are now done by one, or at most two, crew, along with multiple computers.

  20. Slide rules and related devices by Animats · · Score: 2
    From the pictures, it looks like there were some other features used, like 2D graphs with cursors ("nomograms"), which allowed the user to evaluate a function of two variables. One of them had multiple curved lines, indicating the evaluation of a function with three variables.

    Designing something usable in combat with hastily trained crews was a neat trick.

  21. Re:Sounds like a dodged question to me... by Tackhead · · Score: 3, Informative
    > what was the actual answer to Mr. Teller's question? [about whether or not the crew of a B-29 doing a high-altitude demonstration burst over Tokyo Bay would have been survivable]

    From the pilot's own account of the Nagasaki bombing:

    We removed our glasses after the first flash but the light still lingered on, a bluish-green light that illuminated the entire sky all around. A tremendous blast wave struck our ship and made it tremble from nose to tail. This was followed by four more blasts in rapid succession, each resounding like the boom of cannon fire hitting our plane from all directions.

    If that's what a bomb at 1640 feet feels like from 30000 feet and after turning away and hauling ass out of there as fast as possible, then there's... well... to be blunt, I see no effing way a B-29 could deliver a high-altitude demonstration burst and have survived, slide rule or not.

    (By way of reference, the service ceiling of a B-29 is around 33000 feet. Flying to 60000 feet simply wasn't an option with the technology at the time - and the B-29 was the only aircraft capable of lifting something as heavy as a nuke and flying it the required distance.)

    War isn't pretty. War isn't supposed to be pretty. The day war becomes pretty, we've all got problems.

    /me raises a glass to all veterans and all who supported them for jobs well done. Thanks.

  22. Databases by sql*kitten · · Score: 2
    - anonymous because of the database crash that wiped out several hours of data today, sigh


    Michael, SAP/DB is free, and transaction safe, and hence recoverable if the machine crashes. Might be worth checking it out. It's GPL, too.


    Cheers!

  23. Nuke by Syberghost · · Score: 2

    I found it interesting that he'd done computations regarding whether or not we could have done a "demonstration" bombing, and that it wasn't feasible.

    The B-29 over Nagasaki was barely far enough away to avoid destruction as it was; if we'd done the "demonstration" so many Slashdotters occasionally complain about, it would have been a suicide mission.

    1. Re:Nuke by Bearpaw · · Score: 2
      The B-29 over Nagasaki was barely far enough away to avoid destruction as it was; if we'd done the "demonstration" so many Slashdotters occasionally complain about, it would have been a suicide mission.

      Yup. That doesn't rule it out, of course -- it's not like suicide missions aren't sometimes worth the cost. But instead, it was a 60,000* homicides mission. And 90,000* homicides for Hiroshima. (Possibly justifiable homicides, depending on how one looks at it. But possibly not.)

      *Conservative estimates.

    2. Re:Nuke by Syberghost · · Score: 2

      But instead, it was a 60,000* homicides mission. And 90,000* homicides for Hiroshima. (Possibly justifiable homicides, depending on how one looks at it. But possibly not.)

      How many homicides are you gonna charge us with for Iwo Jima? Normandy?

    3. Re:Nuke by Bearpaw · · Score: 2
      How many homicides are you gonna charge us with for Iwo Jima? Normandy?

      How many were there?

      Like I said, it's at least arguable that killing people is sometimes justifiable. But it is still killing. Arguing that one should go ahead and kill tens of thousands of people because one possible alternative is a suicide mission for a few is totally specious.

      Would I go on such a suicide mission? Dammed if I know. If I was reasonably certain that it had a good chance of making hundreds of thousands of further deaths on either/both sides less likely, I like to think that I'd be willing. But obviously no one can really know such a thing about themselves unless they're actually in the situation.

    4. Re:Nuke by Syberghost · · Score: 2

      Like I said, it's at least arguable that killing people is sometimes justifiable. But it is still killing.

      Killing does not necessarily equal homicide. You used a specific term.

      Arguing that one should go ahead and kill tens of thousands of people because one possible alternative is a suicide mission for a few is totally specious.

      Is it? I don't see it that way.

      Japan attacked us. The way I see it, that means that saving their lives becomes less of a consideration than saving the lives of our people.

      I would never advocate an initiation of force, but they initiated.

      And don't give me the "following orders" argument; if you're expecting ME to commit suicide to avoid killing them, they should bloody well commit suicide first to avoid killing me.

    5. Re:Nuke by Bearpaw · · Score: 2
      And don't give me the "following orders" argument; if you're expecting ME to commit suicide to avoid killing them, they should bloody well commit suicide first to avoid killing me.

      [shrug] I'm not expecting YOU to do anything.

  24. Re:The last line of the article states . . . by peter+hoffman · · Score: 2

    It is probably most succinctly summed up by this quote from Henry Kissinger:

    Politics in academia are so petty and vicious precisely because the stakes are so small.

    Btw: that quotation comes in various forms and is attributed to various people. I selected the first example I found.

  25. Re:Database crash? by No+Such+Agency · · Score: 2

    Don't be ungrateful. How much time do you spend here? For *cough FREE cough*. So there was an outage. Go outside for a few hours, instead of insulting the people who run the site. Whatever you may think of their editorial discretion (which we can all complain about at one time or another), Slashdot works almost all the time, and you love it.

    --
    Freedom: "I won't!"
  26. Re:Sounds like a dodged question to me... by Bearpaw · · Score: 2
    War isn't pretty. War isn't supposed to be pretty. The day war becomes pretty, we've all got problems.

    Read some of the US media descriptions of the Gulf War, or even better find some CNN footage from it. Not pretty, exactly, but most of them avoided as much of the ugly stuff as they could. They made it look like a video-game war. Granted, they were mostly just passing along the stuff spoon-fed to them by the Pentagon, but that's part of the problem, innit?

    Yup, we've all got problems.

  27. Re:statistics by sjames · · Score: 2

    the guy sounds very clever, but when i see statistics like that i start wondering about what they're really measuring.

    I seriously doubt that the brief summary of his work on that problem was the entire thought process or analysis.

    Considering that the analysis he did make apparently helped to alleviate the problem says something to be certain. There's also the possability that data was severely limited and all he could do is make a good experimental guess.