How PDAs Intersect With School

An Anonymous Coward writes: "It's never too young to be a yuppie. An engineering professor at the University of Michigan is studying how handheld technology can be incorporated in elementary and high schools. His theory is that PDAs can provide students with a much more interactive and cheaper means of learning than desktop computers. The professor has created a number of interesting applications for using PDAs in school, including a 'cooties' simulator, where students beam around a virus from Palm to Palm and then figure out how it propagated. The New York Times covers the use of PDAs in classrooms here, and Wired News has an article here talking about schools who ban students from carrying PDAs." Both articles focus on Palm OS devices at a school in Ann Arbor, but only the Wired piece points out that the devices were banned there last year.

Comments

Handheld devices?

[sllort]

Ann Arbor Open's policy isn't unique: Several schools around the country are banning handheld devices.

Damn. Busted for carrying an automatic pencil.

Schools really are getting out of hand.

Re:Handheld devices?

[Kenyaman]

I remember graphing calculators being banned in math courses. Lots of math courses are now designed around graphing calculators. You just need to recognize the possible problems with the technology (in the case of graphing calculators, learning to push the buttons without having a clue what's going on), and design your course to make them less of a problem and to use the value of the device (you can graph complex equations, and explain why the graph looks like it does).

Interesting...

[Purple_Walrus]

Where I come from, PDA stands for "Public Display of Affection"...

Re:Interesting...

[evilMoogle]

Same here. That brings a new meaning to the 'cooties' simulator, where students beam around a virus from Palm to Palm and then figure out how it propagated.
Isn't that what sex ed is supposed to prevent?

This is ridiculous..

[PopeAlien]

..do you really need a $150 device to spread cooties?

Re:This is ridiculous..

[torpor]

Sure you do, when the purpose of doing it in the first place is to learn how cooties work.

And anyway, $150 for a device that spreads cooties is *cheap*! Most Windows machines are at least 4 times that, cost-wise, if not more!

Re:This is ridiculous..

[nEoN nOoDlE]

Of course you do... chicks with cooties don't go after poor guys.

Re:This is ridiculous..

[sulli]

PDA spreads cooties for free, last time I checked.

Can't react to change

[zinovylr]

All these schools seem to be afraid of change. whether people will admit it or not PDA's are the future notebooks and pencils. In 10-20 years they will most likely replace all notebooks, text books, and writing devices.

Re:Can't react to change

[Bonker]

Notebooks and textbooks yes, but I have *yet* to see anyone that could write in palm-scribble whatever as fast as they could take notes.

Even if they hand out the folding keyboards, I think it will be problematic. Personally, I can't type on flat keyboards for anything. They have to have spring loaded keys, or else my hands don't work right.

Re:Can't react to change

[goldspider]

I think the schools are finally taking a rational preventative measure here.

In addition to the more serious problem of students transmitting data (answers) to each other, think of how little schoolwork would get done in school if everyone had minesweeper/solitaire/DOOM at their fingertips :)

PDAs in schools, like cell phones, are more of a distraction than anything.

School Funds

[JohnG]

It is an interesting idea, the savings over desktops could then go to other activities other than computers. I happen to agree with Leo Laporte that computer labs shouldn't be the primary concern of schools. Computers are very useful tools, but one kids are very often exposed to at home. I think that many schools that are lacking in Art/Music or Athletic departments should consider putting the money into that. Art and health is just as important as technology.
Maybe by using cheap palmtop devices we can have our cake and eat it too.

Re:School Funds

[JohnG]

That depends on how you define "Education". I think teamwork and good exercise habits are damned important for a growing child to learn. Reading, Writing, and 'Rithmetic aren't the only things that our kids need to be learning.

Re:School Funds

[JohnG]

Well, first of all, not all schools have greatly funded athletics, mine didn't. I would have loved to wrestle in high-school, but when I was there we didn't have a wrestling team.
Secondly, where I went to school the Valedictorian was convicted of armed robbery, and we STILL didn't have 90% of the kids getting beat up. And if we did, perhaps the school spending money on equipment for sports that are more supervised than handing the kids a few basketballs and telling them to have at it would help solve things.
In general though, you bring up very good points. But let's face it, computers shouldn't replace teachers in school. That said, most of the "learning" done on a computer in a school environment is that same point and click nonsense that a kid learns at home on his own computer. Maybe if they were to implement a LOGO workshop or BASIC for higher up kids, I could understand it, but that's not what computers are being used for largely. Largely they are being used to replace other already adequate audio visual tools, and IMHO (and this is by far not a one way issue) it's not really worth it. The cost versus the benefits as applied to how the computers are being utilized right now, just don't add up to me.

Re:School Funds

[Psmylie]

I agree with you. First of all, what you are "taught" in phys ed is pretty useless. I use math and writing skills every day, but it's been a while since I actually needed to peg someone in the head with a large red ball (although I occasionally do that just for fun).

If phys ed is going to be taught, it should be more "learning to to take care of yourself" and less "pointless running around". Also, I learned more about teamwork working in pairs in science class then I ever did playing softball, football, etc.

Maybe it was just my school, but I always thought phys ed was pretty pointless.

Re:School Funds

[bartle]

I happen to agree with Leo Laporte that computer labs shouldn't be the primary concern of schools. Computers are very useful tools, but one kids are very often exposed to at home.

Many schools are feeling pressured these days towards teaching pragmatic skills rather than the traditional esoteric persuits. As a society we provide schools to young people in order to prepare them for their later roles in life. To this end, schools should reflect the realities of the American life rather than some conceptualized ideal. Schooling is becoming a competitive business and those institutions that can reliably produce graduates with good typing skills will be held in higher regard than those whose graduates understand why Picasso's art was important.

So it happens that computers are important now. Very important. It makes sense to me that students should get used to using them in a learning environment in the same ways that they'll one day be using them in a work environment. It may be hard to appreciate unless you've seen it, but I marvel whenever I see someone who can't use a computer. Some type at a word or two a minute, others gingerly hold the mouse in their hand as they try multiple times to successfully pull down a menu. It will be up to them to seek additional training at some point, but at the moment they are at a significant disadvantage in comparison to those who are growing up with these skills.

I think I would've liked going to a school that might have focused on the loftier aspects of academia. But I went to public school and although I might have thrived in a more studious environment, it most certainly would have left many of my peers in the dust. These former classmates of mine are now helping to turn the wheels of our economy and doing so by drawing on only a few of the skills their official education granted them.

My point is that education is best utilized when it reflects our society as a whole. Since computers have made such inroads into our daily lives, so should they be proportionately placed into our learning environments. Palmtops are pretty popular with a number of people out here in the real world, makes sense that they should appear in our schools.

Re:School Funds

[jandrese]

If phys ed is going to be taught, it should be more "learning to to take care of yourself" and less "pointless running around". Also, I learned more about teamwork working in pairs in science class then I ever did playing softball, football, etc.

Amen to that. I remember my high school phys ed classes. Change close, stand in line for 5 minutes while the instructer verified that you indeed did change clothes and that they have been washed in the past week. Then it was 45 minutes of running around the lines painted on the floor in the gym, then change and leave. It was easily the most boring class I've ever taken. Apparently alot of the equiptment had been stolen/vanalized over the summer, and the coaches weren't much on thinking up new ideas (and they were all huge track weenies), so every day it was just running.

Well..

[PopeAlien]

Obligitory Non-login stop making me sign up for everysingle web page I access link..

So there.

banning pda's?

[seinman]

i'm a high school senior and have been using a palm pilot for the last two years. it has done nothing but help me with my studies. how can schools actually BAN such usefull devices??? i understand not allowing games (i have wasted many an hour playing dope wars myself) and making you shut the things up (none of my teachers want it beeping in class) but they also offer such a great educational value that they should not be banned, but instead encouraged.

Re:banning pda's?

[LyNXeD]

While I didn't invest in a Palm (Visor) until a few months after graduating from high school (back in 2000, when I hit the full-time work force as a UNIX admin) I do feel they can be very useful in education. I would rather carry around a Palm device (be it Palm, Visor, etc.) to keep my notes and information in than to carry around a bunch of notebooks. I bought my first Palm back in July of 2000 to replace my Day-Timer before going on a trip. (I did not want to carry around a Day-Timer in the middle of a Texas summer when I could store it all in a Palm and put it in my pocket.)

Ever since then, I've stuck with the Palm platform, and really like it. You know, take a Visor and combine it with a keyboard (pictures here and here)and you have one heck of a note-taking machine.

The experience I had at our high school is that they wanted to have control of all communications in and out of the building. Here's some examples...

All Internet (well, actually web) connections were run through a filter/proxy server. They even kept a log of denied attempts, which was given to the principal. (I think those were E-Mailed hourly.) Those who had denied attempts would be called to his office. When he called me down there and accused me of surfing porno and chat sites, I denied it. His response was, "You did it and you know it. Everyone has been denying it, but I know better." I asked him to show me logs of it, and he did, and of all things they were BANNER CGIs from IMG tags that are automatically loaded - duh! I sent him an E-Mail with a link to DALnet's logo, which was blocked by the school, then told him to check the logs and see if there was an entry for him. After that, I don't think anyone was called to his office. (Luckily, telnet wasn't logged or anything, so that always worked in a pinch. Also firewalls didn't block ports there, so we could always put in proxy settings to point to a Linux box a few of us ran - which bypassed the filter totally.)

As far as phones - all phone communications is done through the school's phone system, again it can be monitored/controlled by the school.

Sadly enough, the State makes carrying a pager in school a felony. However, they have NO policy on cell phones. Cell phones are banned, but that is local school board policy and not State. They claim that pagers are used for drug dealers (I guess they've never heard of an admin who needs to know about outages.) It's funny how the State bans pagers but not cell phones. If I were a drug dealer, I'd much rather have a cell phone, as it offers two-way communications (whereas most pagers do not.)

I don't think we were ever able to successfully make a modem connection over the school's phone system either. (I had also tried this at another local school with the same type of phone system and had no luck - I did this when the State decided to block our ISPs netblocks, which is where one of the schools sites is hosted and we were supposed to show it to the parents that day.) I don't know if the inability to make modem connections is on purpose or a side effect of wiring problems, etc.

But, I've generally noticed that schools want to control all communications in and out. For that one reason, I mostly used SSH when going out of the school network. (In my senior year one of the labs I worked in got a T1 to a local ISP, which had no filtering or stupid policies as the school LAN did.)

But, how does this all relate to PDAs? I think schools must be afraid that PDAs will offer a channel of communications they cannot control (such as wireless) and they don't like that. My suggestion is that schools deploy some sort of wireless network (802.11b?) and let the students connect their PDAs to that - then they can still sniff/monitor/block what they want.

I think schools need to address the problems that PDAs may cause (if any) and take care of them individually - instead of just banning PDAs altogether.

It's also a great way to indoctrinate kids

[tenzig_112]

The cult of "buying crap that doesn't fit my lifestyle" may seem strong now, but its members will eventually going to grow old and die off.

What will happen to gadget computing when people refuse to adjust their lives around an eight ounce hunk of hot-syncable plastic? The threat to the larger economy is palpable.

A program like this will help assure that gadget companies like this will have a fresh supply of suckers- uh, customers for decades to come.

The original School PDA

[mr]

to be mass marketed was the eMate. The marketing included a teacher mode, networking via IR, and a rugged case with long battery life.

Many studies were done and a few schools bought them.

In fact, at a national educators conference on March 3rd, Apple reps said "The Newton is an important part of our product line" Someone pointed out that Apple dropped the line 4 days early on the 27th of Feb, as so the rep had to remove some egg from his face.

Grades?

[PopeAlien]

One of the most common student uses of a hand-held computer is to keep track of assignments and grades.

..Uh-huh.. Yeah Mom, I'm keeping track of my grades

Re:Grades?

[Rimbo]

No, actually Mom, I'm doing research for a paper!

:D

What ever happened to low-tech

[Uttles]

OK, first let me say that banning a PDA is just stupid. Don't punish the many students who use them in a good way just because a few misuse them. On the other hand, I don't think schools should require laptops or PDA's for studies. Realistically, we don't need that much technology for each student in a high school. We need to focus money on getting teachers who don't say things like "ewww, math is hard, I hate math." The problem with education is the educators and the problem with the educators is that smart people don't want to go to college and come out with a job that pays less than a garbage man's salary. Anyway, my point is that PDA's can be good but instead of mounting an initiative to get every kid a PDA, why don't we focus on getting better, higher paid teachers.

Bite the bullet

[SirSlud]

Why don't they just bite the bullet and replace students with computers? They'd behave perfectly, learn at 100% efficiancy, and never skip class to smoke in the playground.

On a more serious note, the easier you make learning, the less learning remains as a primary goal of the human psyche. The goal should be to make learning difficult things personally rewarding, not fun and easy. Fun and comfort is being luaded as the primary experience for any activity, over personal gratification after hard, unpleasant work. It's akin to making your vitamins sugary; if for some reason the sugar isn't there some day, you're likely to pick the comfort of not tasting those nasty vitamins over taking the vitamins, because you just wouldn't appreciate the experience of doing something difficult in order to achieve the goal of .. well, staying alive, in this case.

Thanks to iced cappuccinnos, I have friends who've totally recinded any consumption of milk .. they're so not used to it, they think it's disgusting. They might admit that they know milk is good for you, but that doesn't outweigh the initial uncomfortability of getting used to milk (again).

_DO_ PDAs Intersect With School?

[_Mustang]

I think that would be a much better question. The reality seems to be that we have a totally disfunctional group running the educational system with little or no effort made to coordinate the various levels together to provide a comprehensive education.

1. Interactive (but not-computer) devices being banned from preschool/Kindergarden/grade school children.
2. Middleschool/Highschools banning HP-type calculators and handheld-type devices.
3. Universities that claim to be intellectual bastions of free-thinking; but then go out of their way to lock students into proprietary and expensive software.

Wasn't the whole promise of the "Information Age" and the digital revolution to begin the process of seeding ideas *before* the kids get set in their ways? It's only when the inventions of the previous generation become the *standards* for the next generation that real breakthrough bubble up.
Refusing to integrate these potentially educationally-rich technologies is a huge failure.

It seems that it's these supposed "educators" who need to learn a thing or two.

Re:_DO_ PDAs Intersect With School?

[Hard_Code]

1. Interactive (but not-computer) devices being banned from preschool/Kindergarden/grade school children.
2. Middleschool/Highschools banning HP-type calculators and handheld-type devices.

GOOD. All us tech-heads are having orgasms falling over each other trying to get kids hooked on our ghee-whiz useless device of the week. Kids don't need goddamn PDAs for crying out loud. Kids don't need damn LAPTOPs in the classroom (well, except maybe computer-related classes) for chrissake. I mean, the teacher is RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU. What next, give each student VR goggles! Hey it's VIRTUAL SCHOOL! Whoopdeefuck. My god, all kids did in my school was fucking goof off all the time - I mean, even *hats* were disallowed because they are too distracting to the attention deficit generation. Now we want to give them handheld video game/chat devices?

Schools need high quality teachers, and full funding for adequate (legitimate) supplies (like, um, textbooks [no, not eBooks], lab equipment, etc., not expensive toys. Man, everybody needs to get their head out of the fumes of the tech bong.

Re:True points on why Palms aren't evil...

[l33t3$t_hax0r]

Despite the fact that the graphics aren't good at all, they're just not exciting when you're controlling them though stylus strokes. I have a couple, and they are absolutely last resort -- if your students play PDA games, you're *really* boring them.

You seem to reject the fact that Solitaire and Freecell are some of the most popular and time-consuming games in the world. Secondly, let's fac it; school is going to be boring sometimes. It's *work*, and it requires that students be attentive and focused in order for them to learn. They may not like it, but most learning is not a matter of osmosis. It is done with rote drilling, practice and study. Trying to make every learning lesson "fun and exciting" will not make people smarter.

...at each other, and are within (I think) 3 feet.

Blah, blah, blah. Most kids sit near people they like, therefore they're probably beaming things with people near them, thus your argument is moot.

Not to mention the beeping.

You've obviously never found the *sound preferences* on your Palm before...

but for cheating and entertainment, not so much.

Play a bit of "DopeWars" and then come tell me that Palms aren't good for entertainment. I will then take the opportunity to smack you.

New Homework Excuse

[PoitNarf]

"My dog ate my PDA"

Cheap?

[amanb]

Handheld computers have an advantage over desktop PCs or laptops in that they are small enough to be carried anywhere and relatively inexpensive -- "the cost of a pair of tennis shoes," Soloway said

What kind of tennis shoes do these school kids use?

Re:True points on why Palms aren't evil...

[A Commentor]

And it's true that beaming shouldn't be a fear at all... if the teachers would actually look into it, they'd realize that Palms can only beam when they're pointed right at each other, and are within (I think) 3 feet. Not to mention the beeping. That would make it kind of tough to beam answers without being blatantly obvious.

Cheating IS an ISSUE... You can beam WITHOUT beeping... If a program is not available yet, students could easily write a palm app to help too. And this is not even considering if Bluetooth can make it to the market, and you remove any line-of-sight problems...

High tech note passers? I doubt it!

[Chanc_Gorkon]

High Tech Note Passers....shyeah right! Have these folks EVER used a IR port on one of these? If the desks are separated as they should be, then this won't be a problem. I see more of a problem in letting Cybiko's or wireless ethernet cards in class! :) Cybiko's have a built in peer to peer network!

Gork!

Re:True points on why Palms aren't evil...

[geekoid]

Your talking about a generation of people who have tomiguchi(sp). So clearly there is game potential. but that is realy a secondary concern.
Beeping can be halted, and I would bet youare sitting within 3 feet of somebody.

plus some of them can send recieve email, and picture. snap a picture of the question, send it to someone with a book, then they return with the answer. How many students would pay 5 bucks to get an A? many. kids have a great capacity for creative thinking and problem solving, while not being held down by convention the way adults in the corp. world are. This is really great, and needs to be cultivated, but this can lead to findng clever ways to cheat. Now the first kid who discovers a way to cheat should be lavishly rewarded. All the ones that just copy his cheat need to be disciplined.
Unfortunatle with the ever increasing wide spread use of high quality wireless technology it becomes very difficult, if not impossible, to detect its use.

"Johnny, stop passing ICQs to Mary!"

[SkewlD00d]

Just what kids need... another excuse to not pay attention to class.

<rant>
Maybe education researchers should get off their collective asses and encourage real teaching instead of promoting "Let's watch a film now class." teaching abdication to mass-media and tech wiz-bang nonsense. Having computers solves nothing, in fact, some studies show computers take valuable teaching time away from teachers. I guess they want an open-source teacher-emulation hologram in all the schools, so they don't have to pay those under-paid and under-respected teachers. Poo on them! Academics of the world unite!
</rant>

SkewlD00d

The HW is already there

[aralin]

They even forgot to mention that the hardware is already there. Every single high school student has his own PDA to help him (and surprise, even her) to cheat on school tests. Actually these little machines help students immensely already.

Is it Wired's fault or Soloway's?

[JWhitlock]

Here's from the Wired article:

"I have no data, but I believe kids will read more on the Palm than they do on books because Palms are their generation," said Elliot Soloway, a professor in the college of engineering and school of education at the University of Michigan.

"Books are Perry Como's generation.... The children don't see the Palm as a computer, they see the Palm as media. Media is hot. Media is exciting. That's why they're going to participate in the reading."

Soloway, who is studying Palm handheld programs in schools, said that in order for "computing technology" to be effective in class instruction, there must be enough hardware for all the students, teachers must know how to use it, and administrators and parents must be supportive of the curriculum that incorporates it.

Handheld computers have an advantage over desktop PCs or laptops in that they are small enough to be carried anywhere and relatively inexpensive -- "the cost of a pair of tennis shoes," Soloway said.

"As long as the computers are down the hall and up the stairs to the lab, they are irrelevant to education," Soloway said.

This guy sounds like one of the pie-in-the-sky technologists that loves tech for the sake of tech, and is unwilling to recognize reality. Now, it that because he is, or because Wired is so pro-tech that everything that passes by their editors sounds that way?

To pick apart his statements:

No, kids won't read more just because it is on a handheld computer. Some kids read with their spare time, others do other things. If I was a kid with a handheld computer, I might read, but more likely I would be installing games or other fun apps. I might even have fun writing games for others to play. But reading? Given the book or the e-book, I'll take the book, until e-book tech gets a bit better.

One advantage, though, is that "Penthouse Forum" looks the same as "Tom Saywer", at least from 10 ft away. Maybe kids will read more...

Soloway then says that if all kids had one, and if all the teachers knew how to use them effectively, and if the parents were behind the curiculum, then they would be useful in the classroom. Well, the same could be said for gym equipment, musical instruments, textbooks, lab equipment, or computers. The fact that this isn't the case for a majority of students is why education is in so much trouble - hand-held computers might just make it worse.

Handheld computers are as cheap as a pair of shoes? Maybe, but not any I wore as a kid... My family had to save money, so I got other kid's hand-me-downs, wore shoes til they fell apart (and were already well out of fashion), and generally wore clothes that kept me from being naked. I was aware of the kids who had the newest and most expensive clothes, and that is was a status symbol. Handheld computers would have to be the same across the board (All Visors, for instance, instead of some Visors, some Visor Prisms, and some Visor Edges), and the parents would bitch and moan - "If Johnny wants the orange one with 16MB rather than the ugly black one with 8MB, then why can't he have it? It interacts with the cheaper ones!!!" Just like in the workplace, hand-helds are a status symbol, just a more expensive one.

Please, let's not put a computer in every classroom. Please, put them down the hall. I have never met a computer program that could teach better than a teacher. Mathematica and Matlab are no substitute for a good math teacher. Shockwave Shakespeare is no substitute for a good English Teacher. Dance Dance Revolution is no substitute for a good Phys. Ed. teacher. Axis and Allies is no substitute for a good history teacher. Hell, even Microsoft Visual Studio and gcc are no substitute for a good programming teacher. Computers are tools, but they are limited tools, and the programs are expensive, and can't replace a good teacher. Let's keep the computers down the hall, where they belong, irrevlevant to education.

So let me get this straight...

[ilsa]

Sounds to me like some professor got conned into buying his kid a PDA on the pretext of how this would help his child in school. PDAs are however banned at the local high school. Professor/daddy considers this an insult to his intelligence and goes about finding/creating legitimate uses for the PDA in class.

As someone who went to school during the transition between calculators being banned and calculators being required, this is interesting. If nothing else at least making the "wrong" OS choice for my child on a PDA is cheaper than on a notebook computer!

Morons- All Of You!

[LionKimbro]

Sorry to be so blatant.

I've seen people do so many silly things, make so many foolish arguments, all for the sake of their beloved status symbol, the Palm Pilot.

Don't you on with your "Luddite" name-calling! I happen to be a software developer, with hoards of languages behind me, and I'm young (25). I know all about what technology can and can't do, and I Love nothing more than to see good tech advance..

And I'm saying that this here PDA thing is a load of CRAP. Give it 10-15 years, and I'll look at it again. But right now, there's no good reason to shell out $150 for something that's going to pull you backwards in your education.

I had a student once who insisted on spending hoards of time loading his books for class into his Palm Pilot. He copiously took notes into his Palm- a couple sentances by the end of a four hour lecture, and we'd have to hold up class so that he could cram them in there with his stylus. He'd go on and on about the amazing advantages and all the things it could do. While I Love this guy, and he's a good friend- What a fruitcake! He bought the whole Tech=Good thing hook, line, and sinker. Held up class, and held up his own learning. All over a technology fetish.

PDA's are a fad, for the most part. Sure, there are valid uses, and they can really help out in certain areas in our life. But for the most part, it's a fruity fad.

Want to advance your education? Buy your books, and then write in them.

Want to advance your education? Learn, and then think about the things you learned.

TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED YEARS ago, Confucius had all the technology he needed to wisely note that studying without thinking is a waste, and thinking without study is a disaster.

If you can so much as get students to think about what they learn and connect it with the world they live in, you'll be far better off than you will by having them nonsensically scribbling on a palm, and they'll learn far more.

Thank you Slashdot once again for reminding me why I'm home schooling my daughter.

Re:Morons- All Of You!

[tswinzig]

I had a student once [taoriver.net] who insisted on spending hoards of time loading his books for class into his Palm Pilot. He copiously took notes into his Palm- a couple sentances by the end of a four hour lecture, and we'd have to hold up class so that he could cram them in there with his stylus. He'd go on and on about the amazing advantages and all the things it could do. While I Love this guy, and he's a good friend- What a fruitcake! He bought the whole Tech=Good thing hook, line, and sinker. Held up class, and held up his own learning. All over a technology fetish.

Excuse me, but I never heard anyone try to tell me my PDA was great for taking four hour's worth of notes with the stylus! They have these things calls KEYBOARDS which fit into the PDA's, and which fold up very nicely when finished. You might recommend one to your students.

PDA's are a fad, for the most part. Sure, there are valid uses, and they can really help out in certain areas in our life. But for the most part, it's a fruity fad.

Jeez, what's with the use of 'fruit' as a way of describing things. That's twice now in to paragraphs. Are you trying to tell us something?

PDA's are a fad... yeah. That's like saying rolodexes are a fad, day-planners are a fad, cell phones are a fad, and computers are a fad. Because that's what PDA's are right now... all those things rolled into one, and often times, much more.

Want to advance your education? Buy your books, and then write in them.

Or you could read a book in a PDA/eBook, write notes in the margin, click on new words to find their definitions, save bookmarks to important pages, and search the entire text of all your books within seconds.

You know, technology DOES have a place in education!

Thank you Slashdot once again for reminding me why I'm home schooling my daughter.

You better hope you don't screw up!

Otherwise, she might come out a little fruity.

Re:Morons- All Of You!

[LionKimbro]

Thank you Slashdot once again for reminding me why I'm home schooling my daughter.

You better hope you don't screw up!

Otherwise, she might come out a little fruity.

Now Slashdot is worth the price of admission. {;D}=

Re:Pox

[Fencepost]

The web site for it is at http://www.p-o-x.com. A summary is at http://www.fordads.com/toys.html and undoubtedly at other sites as well.

Re:Morons- All Of You! - Your Opinion Noted

[q-soe]

You have a right to your opinion and i think that in the example you mention you are justified.

However there is the other side to the coin - i work as an IS manager and have half a dozen remote sites to support. I use my palm Vx extensively and so do my staff - they are admittedly not the most practical thing for taking notes with (yuck) but they have a great many good uses.

I have the follwing stuff i use every day in mine (and my staff have most of it too)
- Database of file extensions (usefull as hell)
- Database of cable / termination / cable maps
- Netork database with all site info
- Database of common fault types in our environment
- All hone and contact numbers for all offices
- Patch panel diagrams for all sites
- Router configs for sites
- We can download current calls from our call database and take them with us
- Various database on applications etc

I also have a few games and half a dozen books (1984, Brave newq world, etc - what i feel like reading) and can download my mail and jot small qucik notes when onsite - as well as syncing with my out look

The best thing is that all of this software we use is freeware (bar one database program we bought licenses for) we can convert anything into a PDB file by using isoloweb (www.isilo.com) and we use a number of database aps to create smalll database for them - its quick and easy and bloody usefull - and the best thing is with all of it in my palm including meg launcher, a dozen hacks and games i still have 4mb of the 8mb memory free.

My staff dont lug notebooks out to sites unless they have to (and thats very seldom, and i dont need to lug my notebook home each nght (i have my latest emails on it and all my contacts)

In short i think the palm is incredily usefull - and i am a person who thought they were over priced toys - dont forget that just because you meet one moron that all the other people are neccesarily morons (otherwise i would never have used linux - you should have met the first guy i knew with that :) )

Re:Family experience with computers in school

[Fencepost]

the Web is basically shit for any reasonably detailed material.

That may be the case, but it's a wonderful resource for getting started and finding out where else to look for information.

As an example: in an internal newsgroup at my ISP someone mentioned a relatively recent surgery in India that got a bit of press, in which a woman had some horns removed from her head. There was enough information in the article for a google search on "sebaceous horn", which immediately gave me a list of sites with information on the wide variety of conditions that can cause the problem, as well as some photos that just prove that the kid next door's multiple piercings are far from the wierdest thing that can happen to a body.

Sure I could have gone to the library and spent a while digging through medical references for detailed information, but with a few keystrokes I instead had summaries and articles with bibliographies that would give me a much better chance of finding that extra detail if I really wanted it.

Then And Now.

[istartedi]

Then: Tag! Your it.

Now: I logged 38 tag attempts today, and successfully evaded becoming "it" 17 times.

Then: When I grow up, I want to be a banker like my father.

Now: Stop pulling my hair, Bobby! You almost screwed up my limit price.

Then: You've got cooties.

Now: I've got cooties? Is it cooties 3.0, or cooties 3.1?

Then: Evel Kneivel jumped the Grand Canyon! Pass it on.

Now: Oh no, not the Evel Kneivel spam again!!!

Why the Hell not?

[gelfling]

My son has a requirement, as in requirement to get a TI-83Plus. If students can get that functionality plus any other PDA benefit such as their own Avantgo channel then why not. What are you complaining about? If they beam a list of the weeks assignments to it or a list of resources for where to get information I figure its paid for itself then and there.

The math teacher says...

[munner]

I've just got to comment on this one. I'm a math/science teacher starting my first year in about two weeks. PDA's have got to be the worst idea ever. Calculators are the worst idea ever. Some specific points to make:

Number 1:
How many students can actually add/subtract/multiply/divide without having to turn to a calculator? Very few, and sticking more computers and PDA's into the classroom won't solve anything.

I've taught math classes using graphing calculators. Yes, they can do things nice and pretty and quick. There are two problems. The first is a practical one -- every single class the students have to be shown over again how to use the calculator. Second, they may know how to produce a box-and-whisker plot by pressing the right buttons, but do they have any deeper understanding of what they're doing and why they're doing it? Not really.

Number 2:
It's a whole lot easier for administrators to get their picture taken in a brand new computer lab with lots of stuff to show off, than it is for them to get their picture taken next to a brand new, innovative, and ground-breaking curriculum. We can't really expect the public to demand anything else. People are a lot more content when money is spent on something tangible that they can see.

Number 3:
Suppose we've got every student plugging away at their PDAs. Where's the collaboration? Group learning? Student-led learning? All I can see are a bunch of solitary students going through the motions on a device.

There's no disadvantage to having students work with (gasp!) pencil and paper and to work in groups, without depending on these external devices. Confidence (and academic performance) increases when students realize that they have knowledge and ability beyond a device.

Number 4:
Computers are tools; they're good tools. But we have to remember that they're just that. They don't "make" students learn. They may help develop understanding, but they certainly don't cause students to learn.

We have to require teachers to stick to their chalk. If we don't, it's all downhill from here.

It's never too young?

[Dutchie]

Gah, Anonymous Coward should read the next article about education.

Re:UCSD has a similar thing for College Students

[hackman]

wow, forcing all incoming students to buy one? That sounds pretty rough, seems like you should have a pretty serious reason to do something like that, and at least ASK the students.. jeez.

Brett

Fruit Loops

[LionKimbro]

Actually, you are right on the "fruit" note. That word's been stuck in my head ever since a particular joke my girlfriend pulled over me... {;D}=

Re:How I use my Palm in High School

[reverius]

I am a Junior this year in High School (two weeks into the year now...) and I have to say, my laptop is a lifesaver.

I have been using a laptop since 8th grade in school... where I am, there aren't any stupid rules like "No laptops 'till senior year".

In my chemistry class, we need to make two copies of every lab report that we do. My friends copy theirs onto two sheets of notebook paper by hand. I just print 2 copies. :)

Last week, I bought a Sony Vaio PCG-SR33. It's the coolest thing since sliced bread. 2.9 lbs... I barely even notice that it's in my backpack.

Palms are not the only PDAs

[Junks Jerzey]

All the rage among younger students is the Cybiko, which is sort of a combo game system and PDA. The killer part of the Cybiko, however, is that it can become part of a wireless network made up of other Cybikos. Each can broadcast a signal up to 300 feet, but a school full of them creates a network that covers the entire school.

And the killer app: chatting! Well, that an wireless gaming. I can understand why teachers would want to get rid of these things. And they only cost $99 or so--with constant special offers--so they're easy to get. Neat hardware, though.

Re:Wrong Problem!

[UnifiedTechs]

News Flash, I went through the same american school system as you. Only thing is my school had over 2500 students, my graduating class was 800+... Just because you were lucky to go to a good school dosen't mean there ar not bad ones out there. (the old I don't see the problem so it must not be there). And for me I had my share of good and bad teachers, And some had no idea on how to teach...

I love teachers and I wish we could pay them the same as doctors because they earned it. Heck I already have a teaching job lined up as soon as I finish my degree in 6 months. So don't think I am just berating our system, I am going to take one of those low paying jobs because it is something I love to do and I hope I can be good at it and make a diferance. Now I ask you, besides for making fun of posters who disagree with your views what are you doing about americans education?

P.S. If you don't think the average student has the knowledge and maturity to know a good teacher from one who makes class easy so you won't score him/her low I ask how you can say our system is ok?