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Tivo Announces Dual Tuner Upgrade

ethaz writes "Tivo has announced dual tuner support in version 2.5 of it's software for DirecTV-capable Tivos (DTivos). So much for Ultimate TV's advantage." Too bad it's only DIRECTV TiVos - with the larger hard drive, better output, my TiVo pales in comparasion.

30 of 132 comments (clear)

  1. no new hard drive by tweedle · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, the hard drive is the same size. The increased space is due to the fact that it takes the actual mpeg2 stream straight from directv, so it's a lot more efficient than the SA tivos, since it doesn't have to be reencoded. the increased quality is due to this as well, since DTV uses hugely sophisticated encoders to get the best mix of quality and size, the tivo doesn't have to use it's $5 encoding chip to do the work.

    1. Re:no new hard drive by iceT · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Are you sure? I was under the impression that it had a 60GB hard drive in it...(I actually haven't cracked open my DirecTivo due to the warranty)

      Also, I've never seen an MPEG2 data stream that took 1/2 the space of an MPEG1 data stream of the same quality.....

      30GB Tivo = 9 hours of HQ recording time 30 Hours at a quality slightly better than a slide-show...
      DirectTivo = 35 hours of HQ recording time (no choice as to recording time)

      It HAS to have a larger HD in it... MPEG2 CAN'T be 4x more efficient than MPEG1.

      --
      -- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
    2. Re:no new hard drive by Zeinfeld · · Score: 2
      It HAS to have a larger HD in it... MPEG2 CAN'T be 4x more efficient than MPEG1

      Actually it can because the MPEG2 stream from dish networks has several advantages. First the input signal is much cleaner than the signal you get after transaling the pictures into NTSC, bouncing them through the ionosphere and demodulating them with a cheap circuit. Second the compression hardware they are using is very much more powerful. Third they are using a better algorithm

      What that amounts to is much higher compression for at least the same end quality.

      I Just wonder when I can get me DishNetwork version of the same.

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    3. Re:no new hard drive by Otto · · Score: 2

      The DirecTivo comes in two flavors: a dual drive version and a single drive version.

      The dual drive has a 30 gig and a 15 gig.
      The single drive has a 40 gig.

      Both get "about 35 hours" despite the 5 gig difference between them. I think there's some extra space reserved on the 45 gig model for other uses.

      --
      - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  2. Nice "financial speak" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting
    On August 28, TiVo closed a $51.75 million private placement with financial and strategic investors.

    The private placement was done using what is commonly referred to as "death spiral notes," aka "toxic notes." These are convertible notes (bonds), but unlike typical converts, their conversion rate is based on a fixed dollar amount, not a fixed share rate. The lower the stock price goes, the more shares the bonds can be converted for, which equals more dillution for current shareholders, which equals a lower stock price. Rinse, repeat.

    Excite@home issued these notes just weeks prior to its demise. These notes encourage the holder to dump the stock price of the company (via shorting the stock.) The lower the stock price goes, the more shares the toxic note holder gets. Unlike @home, TiVo has a "floor" (maximum conversion rate), but these are not standard convertible bonds by any stretch.

    I wish TiVo the best of luck (I own one), but the future isn't so bright they have to wear shades...

  3. TV good, TiVo better? by alewando · · Score: 5, Funny

    According to Reuters, India plans to subsidize television sets so couples can sit back and watch television instead of having sex and contributing to India's burgeoning population.

    That's the kind of news I'd expect to hear from adequacy.org, but it's gotten me thinking: if mere television can be successful, then how much better would India's public funds be spent on TiVo instead? Television can be watched at length, but there's a limit to the amount of interactivity. With TiVo, couples would not only be watching more television than they'd previously wanted to (because of the convenience TiVo offers in recording shows otherwise missed); they'd spend additional numbers of hours every year fiddling with options and programming their device.

    If there are any Indians in the audience, I encourage you to write your representative in parliament and encourage him or her to consider TiVo instead of television. Thousands of geeks use it, and they're having less sex than perhaps any other segment of our population. The choice is clear.

  4. My TiVo Wish List: by creep · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Something I really wish TiVo would release is a unit with a built-in Ethernet interface. Granted, I have TiVoNET, and it rocks, but for those not-so-ardent TiVo fans (and not as technically inclined) a factory installed eth0 would be terrific.

    That provides a perfect segue into my next request: an easily configurable web-based interface. I've installed the Tcl-based TiVoWEB package, and I have to say that aside from Slashdot, it is my favorite destination on the web now. Something similar that comes pre-installed would be an instant hit for home users.

    I'm pretty darn proud to own a TiVo, and it's great to see a good company who makes a great product do so well.

  5. What about standalone TiVo? by Boone^ · · Score: 2

    Must we wait until a competitor comes out with dual-tuner for our boxes to get the dual-tuner upgrade as well? My understanding is that the hardware is there, it's just not activated. grrr...

    Maybe ReplayTV will burst back on the scene and increase their feature-set. It's pretty lame that TiVo only upgrades when they *have* to.

    1. Re:What about standalone TiVo? by PaxTech · · Score: 3, Redundant

      The standalone TiVo, as opposed to the DirectTiVo, doesn't have dual tuners. The DirectTiVo has dual tuners, but lacks MPEG compression chips, so you can't record from any source other than DirectTV.

      --
      All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
    2. Re:What about standalone TiVo? by Burdell · · Score: 3, Informative
      Your understanding is flawed. The SA units only have a single tuner and a single MPEG encoder chip. The DirecTiVo units have two tuners and no encoder chip (since they record the digital bit stream direct from the satellite).


      It would be nice to have two tuners in the SA box, but there are a LOT of technical issues that would have to be worked out. It wouldn't be too difficult for straight CATV RF input, but for people with external tuners (cable boxes, satellite receivers of all types), TiVo would have to provide twice as many inputs on the back of the box (and there isn't much space for that). The setup interface would be significantly more complex (is the cable box hooked up to tuner input 2? what about the IR blaster?) for arguably little gain. Some "power users" may want dual tuners, but most of the power users already have TiVo. The target market for TiVo now is the grandmas that sit their and watch their VCR blink "12:00" all the time. How many of those are going to care about (or understand) dual tuners?

    3. Re:What about standalone TiVo? by Scutter · · Score: 2

      Your understanding is unfortunately incorrect. The stand-alone TiVo's only have a single tuner, so this software update won't do any good (although there are a few other nice toys in the update...). Also, don't expect the 2.5 update for standalones until probably Q1 of next year.

      That said, there has been considerable discussion in the TiVo forums on what it would take to make a dual-tuner stand-alone TiVo, and frankly, it doesn't seem likely to happen any time soon. You'll notice that the dual-tuner boxen are all satellite-related (either DirectTV TiVo or Microsoft's UltimateTV).

      FP

      --

      "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    4. Re:What about standalone TiVo? by Scutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What are those technical details? I know they sell TV sets with dual tuners for Picture in Picture that only need one cable hookup. For those of us who hook the cable right into the back of the TV(no cable box) why wouldn't this be an easy thing to? (with additional hardware of coures)

      They wouldn't just have to have dual tuners. Straight dual-RF would be pretty easy. The problem is that they'd also have to deal with dual cable boxes, which means twice as much hardware. And the interface would become exponentially more complicated, as you try to explain which input is connected to which cable box, and try to configure two separate IR blasters running on the same frequencies, etc. etc.

      Right now, TiVo is not being marketed to power users (which are the ones who would want dual-tuner capability). They're trying to sell it as a VCR replacement.

      --

      "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    5. Re:What about standalone TiVo? by stripes · · Score: 2
      My understanding is that the hardware is there, it's just not activated. grrr...

      Nope, I beleve the only unused hardware in the stand alone TiVos is the 2nd decoder for picture-in-picture. I'm not in any real hurry to get PIP.

    6. Re:What about standalone TiVo? by iceT · · Score: 2

      They're trying to sell it as a VCR replacement.

      And what a VCR replacement it is! I NEVER fire-up my VCR anymore... except to Archive something off of the Tivo!

      --
      -- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
    7. Re:What about standalone TiVo? by srvivn21 · · Score: 2

      How many of those are going to care about (or understand) dual tuners?

      That's what is so great about Tivo. It is far easier to program (no blinking 12:00), and operate than a VCR. People are not going to NEED to care about (or understand) dual tuners, unless they don't have one. If said grandma wants to record two (or more!) show that are on at the same time, on different channels, she is currently SOL.

      With a dual tuner box (or even beter one that can tune X channels at once... That would really be cool) all one would have to do is pick which shows to record, and worry about storage space. Time would really cease to have any meaning (as far as TV scheduling is concerned).
  6. Replay by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Replay today announced somethings too.

    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010827/en/tele vi sion-replay_1.html

    "ReplayTV is planning a post-Labor Day introduction of a souped-up DVR that could store as much as 320 hours of TV programming and send programs by email to other DVRs. It may also allow users to copy photo files from a PC to the DVR."

    "Survey describes in detail the new product and asks respondents how much they would be willing to pay for it. Pricing proposals in the survey range from a model with 40 hours of storage capacity that could retail for $699 to a 320-hour model that might sell for $1,999."

    "According to the email survey, the product could work with a standard dial-up phone modem for a monthly fee of $4.95 or a broadband Internet connection using an Ethernet home network at no monthly charge. The broadband connection is required for sending TV programs by email."

    I love my ReplayTV 3030. I might have to get a second one...assuming my job stays there when these have been out a while.

    1. Re:Replay by Erasmus+Darwin · · Score: 2

      This article has already gotten its own Slashdot story about 3-4 days ago (I'd post a link, but search and viewing older articles seems to be broken right now). General consensus seems to be that this is nothing more than unfounded hype built up over marketing research. ReplayTV merely wants to figure out what the demand would be for a unit of that capacity at that price. From the article I read, they haven't even cooked up a component list for a 320 hour unit, yet. My gut instinct says that they probably won't anytime soon.

    2. Re:Replay by iceT · · Score: 2

      Allegedly, Replay is no longer IN the enduser market.... I'd expect to see it show up in your favorite Digital Cable box soon...

      --
      -- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
  7. Dual tuner? Kinda nice. by AtariDatacenter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'll admit, as a TiVo owner, the thought of having a dual tuner would be really nice. A few times it is a problem, but I haven't ran into anything so serious that I would record on TiVo while watching another program on another channel on another TV. Of course, this isn't the same for all people.

    For those of you who MUST have this functionality, you've got to decide if you're going to swap for a DirecTivo/UltimateTV (where possible --- major markets), or buy another standalone TiVo aka a "conflict TiVo" with limited storage.

    Conflict TiVos are somewhat popular, and you only need a 15gb drive to handle the cases (typically prime time) where it happens. And TiVos are running REALLY CHEAP right now!

    Nice to hear about TiVo's cash burn rate. As a *subscriber*, that is good news. If it didn't have a service element to it, and I wasn't dependent upon TiVo, personally, I'd go for a company that has a very high cash burn rate and get all the goodies I can below cost.

    My current favorite is "1-800-555-TELL" (YES, an ACTUAL REAL telephone number... try it, especially the "phone booth" option). I'm calling an 800 number for free to get news/weather/games and to make a free 1 minute telephone call. I'm attracted to companies that have a high burn rate. Except, of course, ones that I am dependent upon.

  8. Re:LOL, I've been pirating DirecTV for about 6 mon by RedX · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sure, go ahead and pop your hacked HU card in a DirecTiVo. There are no technical problems that would prevent it from working. Keep in mind that DirecTV and TiVo are sharing all data collected from DirecTiVo boxes (unlike the SA Tivo's), so don't think you'll have your setup active for too long.

  9. TiVo Web Project by Lightn · · Score: 4, Informative
    Shameless plug. The Tivo Web Project is designed to give you a web interface to your TiVo. And it does, the TCL branch allows you to browse, edit, create, delete entries in now showing, todo, season passes, browse the channel guide, look at suggestions, preferences (thumbs ratings), etc. It's themable, modular, runs directly on the TiVo and is pretty mature.

    The last time I posted on a tivo article the TCL branch wasn't released, and I haven't seen as many downloads as I would expect so far. So have fun. :)

  10. Bet on it happening... by cr0sh · · Score: 2

    I currently get Cox digital cable, and when they installed the service, the installer showed me how to get into the diagnostic screen on "boot-up" of the box. The box clearly details several bits of information on SCSI adaptors found, etc. As far as I know, there isn't any drives in the box, but the box is essentially a small computer with custom MPEG decompression hardware. It isn't x86 based, though (not sure what it is, and don't really care to try to crack the case - many times they put traps in the boxes to kill the service/box/both if you try to open them, from what I understand).

    The crap thing is it will probably be wrapped in so many licenses, DMCA crap, etc - that it will suck as a real useful service...

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
  11. Rumor, not announcement by Gorimek · · Score: 2

    The article is a bit strangely worded. Replay hasn't announced this product, they've just sent out a survey. If they send out a survey about what features people would like last week, they're hardly gonna start selling them next week...

    They might announce something then, presumably to be available at some later date, but bear in mind that "post-Labor Day" is a very long time...

  12. What I want to see... by cr0sh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I want everything the Tivo offers, plus:

    1. The ability to add drive storage as I see fit.
    2. The ability to record and play back MP3s from any source (TV, radio, CD, etc), as well as load MP3s from a network or CD-ROM.
    3. The ability to record into the system from any video medium (tape, DVD, VCD, mpegs off the net, etc).
    4. Other file storage for regular data files, etc.
    5. Network support using standard protocols.
    6. Open spec system, to allow OS choice!

    In other words, a very damn nice file server, with special hardware for sound and video recording, ala Tivo. I want this to act as a central home server (there could be other possibilities as well - x-10 control, video security, web admin, etc), that was nice and expandable, easily - like a PC.

    It damn near can be done today with commodity hardware, but the video record/simultaneous playback/channel guide stuff isn't there yet - we need a fast filesystem for that stuff (the simultaneuous record/playback so you can "pause" TV). Does anyone know of such a filesystem being worked on?

    I am planning on building a largish networked fileserver, but it won't be anything like I described - at best it would be able to play back MP3, maybe record to it, but it wouldn't be an all-in-one solution. Is there anything like this at all - even ultra-expensive solutions used by TV studios for quick DVR editing?

    I doubt we'll ever see such a thing (short of a major hacking effort - though I bet the antcomputing guys could pull it off) - it would allow the user too much control...

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
  13. actually... by JediLuke · · Score: 2, Informative

    they plan to upgrade the TiVo units with the dual tuners first, alla DirecTV ones. then they will upgrade the rest. they said the priority is the DirecTV systems then the normal ones.

    --

    JediLuke
    -Do or Do Not, There is no Try
    1. Re:actually... by iceT · · Score: 2

      The SA units WILL get a 2.5 upgrade. It just won't have the ability to dual-record something.

      --
      -- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
  14. Just got a Tivo by Enry · · Score: 3, Informative

    WOW! How did I ever get along without this thing? I've had it for two days, and have very rarely actually watched "live" TV.

    I got the Sony 30 hour (Tweeter says the Phillips had a lot of returns). I started punching in the shows I wanted to watch (easy searching) and it started to record other shows that I might be interested in. If I don't watch those shows, they just get erased. Given the local PBS station is showing Red Dwarf and Red Green at 1AM, I can get my Red* fix the next morning, since Tivo has already recorded it for me.

    My wife and I are still getting used to being able to hit "pause" to go to the bathroom, answer the phone, etc.

    Now watching: Son of Flubber

  15. Yes, it is happening by Argyle · · Score: 2

    In my RL job I deal with the makers of the set-top boxes that cable companies install.

    They are all building set-top boxes with PVR (personal video recorder) capability built-in. Some will roll out within six months in select areas. PVRs will be standard gear in new digital cable boxes within 18 months.

    I'm not clear on the patent issues, with the interlocking mess of things between Gemstar & Tivo, but Tivo will probably start making substanital monies from the patent licensing aspect alone.

    --
    nuclear iraq bioweapon encryption cocaine korea terrorist
  16. Re:Thats my Idea heheh by cr0sh · · Score: 2

    What are you doing to overcome the simultaneous record/playback/pause TV issue?

    While this function isn't the biggest thing needed, it is a nice function.

    I can think up one way around it:

    Use a dual motherboard/TV tuner/capture card setup, with independant drives, and a 100 meg dedicated network between them - one system could be doing the "taping", while the other allowed you to do the watching (via some sort of custom RAID-like solution) - you would have to have a custom switchbox on the backend for the video out, to do the video selection for the TV, plus a custom case for both systems - but it could all probably be done in some manner.

    Making it small would be another issue, but I could see a such a system built be using the same motherboard for each system, with each MB having on-board 100baseT ethernet, add PCI risers for the TV cards, and stack the boards using spacers, low profile cooling fans, and a forced fan air system from front to back - probably be able to fit it in a few Us of space - be a bitch to work on/upgrade, though...

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
  17. Single box? by cr0sh · · Score: 2

    Because when I finally get a house (in about 6 months, if everything goes to plan), I would like to have a central wiring closet for everything - phone, cable, ethernet, audio, video - would all go in to this closet, which would be a cool clean environment, and easily maintainable.

    I guess the whole thing wouldn't have to be in one box - if I could get cheap upgradable 1U devices - one for video, one for fileserving, another for mp3s - that would work too. Drop them in a rack mount unit, route the network, and you would be set (ideally, though - everything would be on gigabit ethernet, with access terminals at each end point - need a phone, plug it in the network, need a video feed, plug the TV in there as well - use a switch/hub as needed - would be a tad expensive at today's prices, though)...

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon