ZDNet Discontinues AppWatch

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Posted by michael on Friday August 31, 2001 @11:44PM from the apt-cache-search-still-operational dept.

Adam J. Richter writes: "Citing "today's economic climate", ZDNet has discontinued AppWatch.com, a software release tracking site similar to freshmeat.net, but covering only free software (usually GPL compatible) and having an automated update detector, making it very current with low noise. AppWatch was originally an independent site created by developer John D. Rowell. Before anyone flames ZDNet, consider that it may be that even a 100% share of ad revenues would not have been sufficient to retain John and his staff in comparison to other opportunities. John and an assistant were originally working on AppWatch for free, and ZDNet did a good thing by arranging so that they could get paid for it, probably saving the site at the time. Both parties were doing something positive, and the fact that they had to stop does not mean that they have done something negative. I, for one, hope to see AppWatch.com continued in one form or another."

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VersionTracker by cshotton · 2001-08-31 23:49 · Score: 5, Informative

There are dozens of these sites. VersionTracker.Com is one of my favorites, since it covers all of the major operating systems and lets you formulate your own queries.

--

Shut up and eat your vegetables!!!
and CNET shut down 'webware' by jqh1 · 2001-09-01 00:10 · Score: 3, Informative

After I tried submitting a free web service to Webware, I got this email message:
Dear Provider,
Thanks for submitting your product or service to be listed in the Webware.com directory. However, Webware.com will cease publication on August 31, 2001, so we are unable to list your product at this time.
If you have a downloadable version of your product, please submit it to Download.com.
The Webware.com team

--
who's moderating the meta-moderators?
What else do you need? by shokk · 2001-09-01 00:11 · Score: 3, Interesting

What do you need in AppWatch that Freshmeat didn't provide? Being that AppWatch, specializing in listing free software, is providing a subset of what Freshmeat lists, couldn't Freshmeat just provide a filter for searches based on licensing that would just give you the same functionality? They already keep track of license types, and this type of filterng is available in the advanced version of the simple search they now have on their home page when you register.

Freshmeat always seems timely and deals in all the apps I use, even some really minor ones that I don't think I'd ever use. Always used them, so here's hoping they don't suffer the same demise. I see a long painful road of this ahead of us and the few willing to starve a little for their cause are going to make it to the end.

--
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
1. Re:What else do you need? by Vapula · 2001-09-01 00:25 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Redundancy...
  Relying on only one source is risky... Freshmeat could turn commercial and ask for a subscription in order to consult their services, or could dissappear... an that don't even take in account the fact that they may have hardware problems and be out of service for several days or weeks.
  The whole point bout a technology such as internet is that it allows tu implement redundancy easily (mirror or alternate sites/programs providng the same service).
2. Re:What else do you need? by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 00:31 · Score: 0
  
  Appwatch is good so when VA Linux goes out of business (stock closed at 1.37$ yesterday, losing about 5 cents a day, how long till someone sets up them the delistment? you do the math) and Freshmeat get's shut down, there will be another site to provide this functionality.
  
  Of course if you use Debian you don't really have to use those kind of sites, apt-get handles all that.
3. Re:What else do you need? by shokk · 2001-09-01 01:14 · Score: 2
  
  Ah, then an extraction operation is in order. Is there such a thing as Freshcode so that it can immediately be dupicated elsewhere? The value, I feel, is not in something like Freshcode (if it exists), but in the staff that searches the net and populates the pages with usable information.
  
  You'll note that Freshmeat handles more than just what is available for Debian, so you fall under the contingency "what if the Debian caretakers all spontaneously combust" or something more realistic. I realise that Debian would be harder to kill since it is using the Internet in its proper distributed sense rather than a certain rouge chapeaux'd stock, but there are environments where Linux itself, in any of its forms, is not an option.
  
  --
  "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
4. Re:What else do you need? by bagder · 2001-09-01 01:16 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  What do you need in AppWatch that Freshmeat didn't provide?
  AppWatch figures out about updates automaticly.
  As users, we may not care, but as developers, we think that service is priceless. I don't have to announce my new releases, just upload them and all is fine!
5. Re:What else do you need? by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 01:31 · Score: 0
  
  Freshmeat's data gets stale since nobody updates it. Appwatch had a pretty good routine - they would subscribe to the mailing lists of a project and cook the release notes into their announcement.
  
  Freshmeat puts the burden on updates on you. Hi, I'm already updating my own web site, plus writing the software. You're getting paid for it. I'm doing it because I like to write software. YOU update it.
6. Re:What else do you need? by Adam+J.+Richter · 2001-09-01 01:50 · Score: 2
  
  What do you need in AppWatch that Freshmeat didn't provide?
  
  I would like a license filter or license ranking option and an automated update detector such as jdwhatsnew, ideally while still allowing user submitted updates.
  
  On freshmeat, the updates that you see are generally very current, but, to the best of my knowledge, you only see what people submit. For example, to pick on myself, I see that I have been remiss in submitting an update for the freshmeat entry for the July 17 release of version 1.6 of dvdtape. AppWatch's automated release monitoring provided more uniformity. As the amount of software scales up so that it's more work to double check for updates by visiting individual web sites, the value of this automation increases. Imagine if text search engines only updated from manual submissions.
  
  By the way, I read Freshmeat daily in addition to AppWatch, but I would usually start with appwatch for its update speed and focus on the type of software that I am most interested in. Then, I would typically visit freshmeat to see what appwatch did not cover and check out the unfree or GPL incompatible software (which I am also interested in monitoring after I've seen what's new in the GPL compatible space). I imagine that people with other copyright preferences might also like a copyright policy filter or prioritizer.
7. Re:What else do you need? by tww-china · 2001-09-01 03:13 · Score: 1
  
  What do you need in AppWatch that Freshmeat didn't provide?
  
  The changelogs provided on AppWatch are far more informative than those on Freshmeat. That it also limits itself to Open Source is very beneficial. And, on Freshmeat, you click on the home page and get to it through a redirect from the freshmeat site. Ditto for downloads. Very, very frustrating when you want to copy the link from your browser and use lftp or curl to do the download. AppWatch was simple, informative, and timely.
8. Re:What else do you need? by Mushy · 2001-09-01 07:14 · Score: 0
  
  Rss Backend.
  
  I myself depend heavily on the RSS backend provided by both freshmeat and appwatch. Freshmeat doesn't provide the changelog in it's RSS feed whereas AppWatch did. That makes a LOT of difference when looking at news aggregators or your own processed feed.
9. Re:What else do you need? by Khalid · 2001-09-01 08:03 · Score: 2
  
  Yeah this is the problem with Freshmeat, if people forgot to submit their software or their new realease it WON'T appear of freasmeat. Sourceforge people where working on an automatic Freashmeat integration so that every software release will automatically appear on Freashmeat, but as always with Sourceforge it takes a eternity to be done.
Ask Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 00:16 · Score: 0

How do I write a goddamn disk image on Sparc Solaris 8?
dd if=./foo.bar of=/dev/fd0 bs=1440k
doesn't work!
1. Re:Ask Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 00:21 · Score: 0
  
  Offtopic, but maybe you should just stick to the filemanager so you don't hurt yourself.
2. Re:Ask Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 00:23 · Score: 0
  
  I can't write disk images with the filemanager.
  How the hell am I supposed to learn to use Solaris without manuals and help from the community?
3. Re:Ask Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 00:25 · Score: 0
  
  Try removeing the dot before /foo.bar dude. heh.
4. Re:Ask Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 00:27 · Score: 0
  
  Why don't you just go back to windows you big fucking loser, no one wants you here get the fuck out you wannabe.
  
  Oh my bad i thought you where asking for help with FreeBSD...
  
  Did you try Sun's website?
5. Re:Ask Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 00:34 · Score: 0
  
  Well as a FreeBSD user i find it to be my duty to alienate new users and developers as much as possible so that there is no chance of them helping with development or increasing the market share.
6. Re:Ask Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 00:34 · Score: 0
  
  I've been using Linux since the early 1990s.
  Right now, however, I'm sitting in a Sun room at my university and I'd like to write a disk image.
  So, in your opinion, since I haven't used Solaris before and I don't know how to write a disk image with it right away, I don't deserve to learn that either? What a fucking retard you are.
  I bet you're a recent Windows "convert" who's been using Linux for a couple of months just be "elite" and ridicule people.
7. Re:Ask Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 01:43 · Score: 0
  
  Try an IRC channel. Pick a network (irc.stealth.net could do it) and then join channel #solaris. Chances are that there will be someone alive to help you. One advice though (especially if you are new on IRC): be patient. People are not always watching their screens so they may take some time to reply. In case you don't get a reply in a couple of minutes, then ask again. And for god's sake, be polite. Nothing infuriates them more than a person who joins and starts insulting if he doesnt get a reply in a quick manner.
8. Re:Ask Slashdot by CapeBretonBarbarian · 2001-09-01 02:16 · Score: 1
  
  Have you looked at docs.sun.com?
Forget Appwatch, Come To Distrowatch! by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 00:21 · Score: 1, Informative

The site is www.distrowatch.com. Not nearly as comprehensive as (now defunct) Appwatch, but growing and will hopefully be useful for people who used to frequent Appwatch. I relied on Appwatch for a lot of information, but now that I am on my own, I will do my best to keep www.distrowatch.com up to date. Feedback is welcome.
Projects die. Software doesn't. by YKnot · 2001-09-01 00:21 · Score: 2, Insightful

When a project is discontinued, there's only one right thing to do: Release the source. This way others can pick up where you left. Maybe others have the time and the energy to take over what you couldn't afford to continue. The problem with commercial investments in spare time projects is that source code immediately becomes valuable and is less likely to be disclosed.
Alternatives? by haxor.dk · 2001-09-01 00:31 · Score: 1

If we can't do anything about the death of AppWatch, we can consider petitioning versiontracker.com for a Linux section. They already have Mac, Mac OS X, and Windows.... Linux would be a natural evolution....
AppWatch is better organised than Freshmeat by Flammon · 2001-09-01 00:34 · Score: 3, Insightful

AppWatch is like Google for finding free software; the search results are usually very accurate to what is intended.

Freshmeat is more like AltaVista, there's a ton of stuff, but the search results are not pertinent.

I hope AppWatch can continue operating without ZD or they will me missed.

--
ayottesoftware.com
1. Re:AppWatch is better organised than Freshmeat by ameoba · 2001-09-01 01:51 · Score: 1
  
  I just discovered AppWatch earlier this week and was starting to think of it as a useful resource. As long as ppl continue to block banner ads, I expect to see more not-entirely-massive sites go down the tubes as the value of web advertising goes down. The saddest part is that so much of the Slashdot contingent seems to think that blocking ads is harmless. Payment for banner-load/click-through is the closest working thing to our beloved micropayment system.
  
  I guess a lot of OSS types really are just in it becuase they're tight-asses. In that light, I can almost see why the trolls keep linking goatse.
  
  --
  my sig's at the bottom of the page.
2. Re:AppWatch is better organised than Freshmeat by YKnot · 2001-09-01 07:13 · Score: 1
  
  Not blocking banner ads just delays what is inevitable, that advertisers realize this: Banners don't work on people who hate banners enough to turn them of by all sorts of imperfect and timeconsuming means. Very few advertising campaigns work despite or because they piss people off. The prices for banner space are deteriorating because banner ads don't work as well as expected, blocked or not. The reason for banner networks disallowing "Click on the banner to keep us alive" is simple: If you click the banner just to help your favorite site, you don't add to the advertiser's profit. Same thing if you do not suppress banners just to keep AppWatch alive. Advertisers want customers, not people who suffer through animated banner bombardments just to keep a website alive.
Free Software and rentability by Vapula · 2001-09-01 00:37 · Score: 1

What a lot of people don't realize when they invest in free software (GPL, BSD, artistic licence,...) is that, even if they don't get something back in money, they anyway get something back.
Free Software works by personnal contribution, the more people that contribute, the more software and services are available FOR FREE and FOR EVERYONE (including those who are investing time and/or money).
We can continue with the fact that the more software and services are available, the more people will adopt free software solutions as they are most likely to find what they are looking for.
And to complete the cycle, the more people have adopted free software, the more people will contribute. Some may contribute because they feel in debt toward the Free Software community, other would program anyway and, as they are in the free software environment, they contribute in free software (think of great sharewares/freewares that existed like pkzip, rar, winamp,...). And other may be just caught by the game, beginning by adding a feature they needed and contributing it back to end by being a major contributor on the project.
So, enterprises who are investing in free software are investing in tools that they may be already using (Apache for example) or that they will find later and for which they won't have to pay license fees (and thus, they'll have to spend less money on software... They don't win money, they just allow a way to not spend it to be possible.
1. Re:Free Software and rentability by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 00:42 · Score: 0
  
  You just want to see programmers turn into slave labor. If your communist scheme succeeds it will destroy the programming indusrty.
What's the big deal? by TheLinuxWizard · 2001-09-01 00:43 · Score: 0

We already have freshmeat? Did appwatch not cover GNU software maybe?? I guess that's why it's dead now... Thank god freshmeat is still around!

--
Linux Rulez!!!!!!!!!!!
1. Re:What's the big deal? by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 02:06 · Score: 0
  
  What's the big deal? Resource diversity is lost.
  Typical GPL think, if you are not using the GPL, you are crap.
  
  We already have freshmeat?
  
  And freshmeat is mostly useless because it tracks the GPLed stuff used by license brownshirts.
  
  Did appwatch not cover GNU software maybe??
  
  It mostly tracked that GPLed stuff that blind fanatics use.
  
  I guess that's why it's dead now... Thank god freshmeat is still around!
  
  Yes, one more step in making the GPL The only choice. Just like Microsoft, wanting the whole world to be microsoft, cept the goal is making the world GPL instead. Be careful what you fight, lest you become that.
There's always the Open Source Directory by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 01:07 · Score: 0, Informative

...who were on Slashdot just a few months ago, if you recall, and who appear to be trying to solve more or less the same problem as these people - they presumably have the framework available to collect enough data to solve this (I'd say they already have solved this, but of course they haven't because there is so little software actually listed in their system so far)...
Gotta love ZD ad sales by jfoust · 2001-09-01 01:20 · Score: 1

After reading the notice regarding the discontinuation of AppWatch, I clicked on the link for their "Linux Update" site... only to see a big banner ad by Verio imploring me to "harness the power of Windows 2000 web hosting". Yup, that's good targeted advertising there, ZD...
1. Re:Gotta love ZD ad sales by LetterJ · 2001-09-01 12:55 · Score: 1
  
  Would that be like the 2-3 ads for Cold Fusion on every PHP article over at orielly.net?
  
  --
  
  The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
Unified version checking needed by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 01:38 · Score: 0

I've played with this idea but don't have the time to implement it properly. The basic premise is that people releasing free software usually have some web/ftp space that they control. It then becomes trivial for them to publish a file that lists their projects, the current version(s), and the URLs to the actual files.

Then, a user who's interested in my stuff would only need to add my update URL to their client, and it would poll my web server periodically to see if anything has been updated. A savvy client would poll ALL of them once in awhile to see if any of their local programs have changed.

Imagine being able to check on the latest versions of things like sendmail, squid, procmail, wu-ftpd, openssh, openssl, and so forth, all done on YOUR machine. Now that would be interesting.

Maybe this already exists. If so, point me at it and I'll start publishing my version information that way.

By the way, snobby users of distributions that are package-laden: some of us build from source EVERY TIME. Sure, we use packages, but they're OUR packages, custom built for our dozens of machines. Thank you, drive through.
ZDNet has its collective head up its arse by barzok · 2001-09-01 01:39 · Score: 1

Everything they're doing these days they claim to be a result of lost ad revenue, and in their cost-cutting desperation, they are doing things that...further reduce ad revenue!. Their management has no clue about how to service what people truly want, and pay only lip service to those who spell out very clearly what would make their services better.
I've never even heard of this site/service, and I'm on ZDNet constantly. More stupidity...they apparently don't market it or they ruined it to the point where it's not worth mentioning. Maybe they need to look within to find out why it's not doing well.
Duh by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 02:12 · Score: 0

John and an assistant were originally working on AppWatch for free,
So now they go back to their roots, without getting paid. Or what?
Appwatch.com... huh? by slashdot_commentator · 2001-09-01 02:14 · Score: 1

Wow, do I feel silly. This is the first time I've heard of it. (And I was on the net before the age of webbrowsers.) Ah well, can't miss what never existed to me.

But wouldn't these "gems" have a better chance of existing if someone would take the trouble to promote them???

--
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
1. Re:Appwatch.com... huh? by CMiYC · 2001-09-01 03:13 · Score: 1
  
  I follow you on this one. I had no idea Appwatch existed or ever heard of it.
Sourceforge over Freenet? by Benjiman+McFree · 2001-09-01 03:03 · Score: 1

It only makes sense. Watch them FBI agents cry for more money once free software is delivered in an encyprted enviornment, LOL..
I agree by macdaddy · 2001-09-01 03:08 · Score: 2

I was just getting ready to post about it. I love VT. It's been my default page now since at least '97. It's a great site. I haven't used the Windows side of it since I am a Mac guy (does the nick give it away) so I can't comment on it much. If it's as complete as the Mac site, it's well worth a look. Freshmeat.net will always be my *nix site but VT is my Mac site.
Burning both ends of the candle! by blab · 2001-09-01 03:20 · Score: 1

Warning: shameless plug, but very helpful.
We're working on it: http://sf.net/projects/trovesendtwo/ And we could use some help if you're JAPH...

All this needless effort can be avoided. On the author/maintainer side a client app should be able to update these product directories, check for diffs in listings, and save the author/maintainers a lot of work and track the history of the product changes. If a directory itself disappears the data is NOT lost. Just upload it all to the next one. And the next one. And the next one. The directory people can now go about promoting their site (and your products).

The problem with sites like this one are the amount of work created for everyone, code authors/project maintainers & the directory people. And thus they die or burnout. And now all the work is lost?? The site is now just a press release. It's a shame.

One side benefit, to the people you are trying to reach with your products, is that you can disseminate your product info to as many directories/sites with no more effort than updating once and letting the client-app do all the work of updating those sites you choose to list your product at.
1. Re:Burning both ends of the candle! by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 07:07 · Score: 0
  
  Consider using a real language, and I'll think about it. If you're just hacking up something quick and dirty style, Perl's fine. If you're actually planning this out and want it to be a big thing, well, it's ridiculous to go with the poor maintainability and extensibility of Perl code. Makes me have concerns about just how serious and/or knowledgeable you guys are...
2. Re:Burning both ends of the candle! by blab · 2001-09-01 10:28 · Score: 1
  
  Spoken like a true Anonymous Coward.
Quit your bitching... by phillymjs · 2001-09-01 03:29 · Score: 1

...and try contacting them and asking them to cover Linux as well.

VT is a great site, it should be at the top of any support tech's bookmark list, the first web site you check in the morning with your Coke (or coffee), and the site you re-check most often through the day (well, maybe behind /.).

I'll happily look at a few banner ads in exchange for a quickly-found, direct download link to that crucial update from some company that I need for their product. It's a lot easier than digging down through that company's often-poorly-designed web site to find that same update.

~Philly
I'm going to miss Appwatch. by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 03:43 · Score: 0

For me Appwatch repaced my regular Freshmeat viewings.

To say that Appwatch provided a _subset_ of Freshmeat's listings is like saying that a needle is a subset of a haystack.

Freshmeat reports too much junk...every half-baked, one-off-releases, "Hello, World!" script written in Eiffel gets listed there. Too much crap to sort thru.

Appwatch reported actively worked on projects, and the most important GNU tools that form the basis of Linux and other OSes. (i.e. GCC, binutils, glibc, the fetish utils, e2fsprogs, libtool/automake/autoconf, sed, gawk, bison, flex, bash, m4, perl, python, various X terms, nasm, gtk, etc.) And you knew when the releases came within hours.

Gee, I hope they can continue -- the deja->google
transfer chopped off my right arm, Appwatch going would surely take the left.
Try FileFlash by antdude · 2001-09-01 03:50 · Score: 2

I like FileFlash for Windows applications. :)

--
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
I don't regret by fredlwm · 2001-09-01 08:14 · Score: 1

As one of the authors of AppWatch, I can't regret what happened. You can read my side of the story at AppWatch.org. John proved to be wrong. All I can say is that I regret what happened before the sale, not after. I thought about creating a new AppWatch (I registered greputils.{com,org}), but am no longer interested (still, you can try to persuade me).

BTW, I remember when we announced the launch of AppWatch on several sites and the only to reject it was... Slashdot. We talked with Hemos by e-mail and his excuse was that there were ~100 submissions like ours by day. But now I can thank you for ignoring our announcement. You know the story.

--
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
1. Re:I don't regret by fault0 · 2001-09-01 16:04 · Score: 1
  
  Mod this parent up.. I had no idea about the dark side of Appwatch
Does this really matter? by Anonymous Coward · 2001-09-01 13:01 · Score: 0

>other opportunities. John and an assistant were originally working on
>AppWatch for free, and ZDNet did a good thing by arranging so that
>they could get paid for it, probably saving the site at the time. Both
>parties were doing something positive, and the fact that they had to
>stop does not mean that they have done something negative. I, for one,
>hope to see AppWatch.com continued in one form or another."

ZDNet basically thought they could gain credibility within the Linux,BSD
and Unix world by using AppWatch as sort of a gateway to their lame
feature articles and such. Pretty much didn't work. Can anyone recall
their idiotic "security challenges" without laughing for instance?

Do you know anyone within the Linux,BSD or Unix community who still
doesn't view ZDNet as basically being a huge joke when it come to dealing
with the issues of the non-Microsoft world?