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Slashback: Bots, Time Travel, Turing

More on the Battlebots trademark dispute, proof that some of your are listening to Dr. Who on the Beeb, and a memorial -- finally -- for Alan Turing, in tonight's round of updates, corrections, and further info.

That eerie, eerie theme music will get in your head all day. sideshow-voxx writes: "The BBC has announced that there will be more installments of the Audio Adventure Dr Who - Death Comes to Time available on the web in the New Year."

This is cool news (the accompanying art is a nice touch with this Dr. Who presentation), but it would be nice if they would put the episodes into more audio formats as well.

Things always seem to get more complicated. Eric Molitor, ("Linux hacker and Builder of Violator - Linux powered BattleBot that competed in May") wrote about the BattleBots vs. Battlebots story of the other day, saying:

"As a BattleBot competitor I was horrified when I noticed your article but here are some corrections... BattleBots INC != BattleBots the show.

BattleBots INC is suing and not the TV show. (Comedy Central tapes the tournaments and airs portions of the finals on a TV show. But thats just like showing NFL games mostly. The TV company just pays a licensing fee to broadcast the event.)

Do a little research and the guy registered his domain at least a year after the first BattleBots competition in Long Beach. (Early 1998) In fact the battlebots.org domain was registered after BattleBots.com, and after BattleBots applied for their TM.

So this kid (running a script kiddie hosting service no less) registers a domain after somebody applies for the TM and then asks for $5K to give it up. Sounds like cyber-squatting to me. Also take a look at the dates on the website for the replies, etc. Things don't look right ....

Still BattleBots is dumb not to have registered the .org domain.

For a little history on BattleBots and the law suits, etc. that RobotWars got into that nearly destroyed this sport take a look at http://www.robotcombat.com/history.html.

Greg and Tray gave up a lot and everybody got together to dodge RobotWars/Profile records lawsuits to prevent the sport from happening. I'd hate to see them unfairly get a bad name."

Thanks, Eric.

Something to see in England. slathering wrote with news that the Alan Turing memorial written about in this Slashdot story has finally materialized. He writes: "I read about this in this months IEEE Annals of the History of Computing (who doesn't have a website). But I found the website for the memorial itself. Apparently funding was found for the Alan Turing Memorial since it was unveiled June 23, 2001 in Manchester, England. It was funded without any donations from the computing industry."

23 of 340 comments (clear)

  1. Re: Alan Turing? by Bodero · · Score: 3, Informative
    Who is Alan Turing? No no no, honestly, I don't know! Should I?

    You should. Alan Turing is considered by some to be the father of modern Artificial Intelligence. A troubled soul whose contributions to the world included The Turing Test (to measure whether a program is artificially intelligent or not) and cracking the German Enigma cypher code during the war.http://www.math.sfu.ca/histmath/Europe/20thCen turyAD/Turing.html for more info.

  2. Re: Dr. Who? by Bodero · · Score: 3, Funny
    Is it like the rock band the Who or like Mr McGoo?

    Doctor Who was a popular television show that ran in Belgium between 1972-1974. In it's day it was one of the most popular shows in Belgium and it starred Larry Lamb and John Craven (who went on to star in Hollywood movies such as Terminator and Total Recall).
    No episodes exist of this classic TV show, but we can relive the episodes thanks to Steve Roberts who has reconstructed them from Crayon drawings and dialogue from episodes of Eldorado. The show was axed in 1974 after allegations that it was just a big hoax designed to extract money from the Belgium TV service. These allegations were denied by the production company, Grabitandrun.

    There is another Doctor Who series as well, but by all accounts it was some obscure rubbish that is long since dead.

  3. turing test is flawed by perdida · · Score: 4, Informative

    there are many artificial systems designed to interact with humans even now that fool humans.

    One has to set different standards for different kinds of cognition, communication and interaction. An IRC user can sound like a computer if he or she is from another country and has a limited grasp of the language in which you and s/he are conversing, for instance.

    A human can compete with a chess playing computer and his or her experience with computers may have been limited, so without further input that chess playing human may mistake this computer for another live person.

    I think that artificial intelligence wpould be best measured with an understanding of emotion and ethics, so psychological and ethical examinations, such as those administered in Blade Runner.

  4. Re: Alan Turing? by anotherbadassmf · · Score: 5, Informative
    Actually, I don't think he did much for AI, except for the turing test, which is more of philosophical theory.

    More acurately he is the father of Computing Science and he developed the "turing machine" -- basically the simplest model of a machine necessary to compute anything that is computable. He also determined what is computable by a machine and what is not computable, e.g.the halting problem

  5. Prejudice by os2fan · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Homosexuality and gender identity are conditions of birth, and affect something like 11% of the population, to some degree.

    In the main, you can not change it. The smart ones survive it, the dumb ones commit suicide. That's the reality. A little love and understanding, and a little openness makes life more bearable.

    Alan Turning was a brilliant mathematician, he was also a homosexual. Having a gender issue does not prevent you from making a serious contribution to society. On the other hand, the very same thing, like any other defect, gives one ample scope to master other skills to a much more worthy level.

    And it's sad, that we take away from these great people the fruits of their work, and at the same time, make their life more miserable for what they are. Even if this makes them what they are.

    Learn to love and cherish variety. It's what make the world go around.

    --
    OS/2 - because choice is a terrible thing to waste.
  6. Wanted: an NT powered battlebot... by Robber+Baron · · Score: 4, Funny

    Linux hacker and Builder of Violator - Linux powered BattleBot that competed in May

    Somebody needs to build an NT powered battlebot, then we can have a serious NT vs Linux battle. (Of course the bastard will probably bluescreen as soon as the competition heats up...)

    --

    You're using her as bait, Master!

  7. Bletcheley Park Needs Help Too... by 4n0nym0u53+C0w4rd · · Score: 5, Informative

    Bletcheley Park, where Alan Turing and others defeated the German Enigma (as well as other codes) during WW2 is also in some financial trouble. If you find yourself in England, it's worth a trip. Until then, they could use your support (or you can buy stuff from them).

    Having visited Bletcheley Park for the first time last year, I highly recommend the trip. If you have any interest in WW2, code breaking, or the history of computing, it is a great place to visit. You can really feel the history as you walk past the huts where Turing and others worked. If you've read Cryptonomicon or The Code Book, it's even cooler.

  8. Irony of the Apple by Sebastopol · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The irony of Turing holding the apple is quite a powerful message, as stated at the end of the article. Symbol of Newton, and yet he deliberately took his life with one (news to me).

    Imagine helping save Europe from the Nazi's and then being prodded and forced by politicians and doctors to take libido-surpressing drugs: people who's very asses you helped save, all because they're fucking prudes.

    Fuckers.

    Makes me recite the anticlericalist mantra: intolerance of the intolerant. In the words of Consolidated (from Play More Music), "Yes, we're hypocrites, but for the left."

    --
    https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
    1. Re:Irony of the Apple by Rei · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not just libido-suppressing drugs... *estrogens* (back then, probably Premarin - a concentrate of equine estrogens made from the urine of pregnant horses... I believe it was the only estrogen on the market back then). There's a big difference. A male could get a bilateral orchiectomy or take a lot of androcur or spironolactone, and have a lower testosterone level than most women. Taking estrogens actually will not reduce a male's libido as much as androgen blockers that were known in his time. There's some counterindication between testosterone and the major estrogens, but in reality, the biggest effect of a male taking estrogens is *feminization*, not *devirilization*. I.e., skin, fat, and muscle changes, breast/nipple development, et al.

      -= rei =-

      --
      "Oh, goodness. Look at my wrist, I have to go." "But what about your clothes?" "I don't love these."
  9. Some payback... by Black+Art · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have read some of Turing's papers. The man was *far* ahead of his time. He was a major factor in breaking Enigma. His work was the basis for computing as we know it today.

    If it was not for Turning, many of us would be speaking German. (And I have a bad enough time spelling as it is...)

    And as payback he was hounded to the point where he commited suicide because the narrow-minded twits who were/are in charge of Britian thought that being a homosexual was a "security risk". (The only people who were overly concerned about it were the ones in the Government. You can't be blackmailed if no one cares.)

    As Frank Zappa said "Drool Britiania".

    And even more shameful is that NO ONE in the computer industry is willing to honor the man in a way where their name will be seen. Are they that concerned about the blue-noses and busy bodies? Must be. Not like they don't owe him for Computer Science as we know it today...

    But they are not alone in the blame game. The ACM and IEEE should have been involved as well.

    Too damn much attention is given to preasure groups now-a-days.

    --
    "Trademarks are the heraldry of the new feudalism."
    1. Re:Some payback... by Pseudonym · · Score: 3, Informative
      And even more shameful is that NO ONE in the computer industry is willing to honor the man in a way where their name will be seen.

      You're kidding, right? The greatest award which a Computer Scientist can receive (since there isn't a Nobel Prize for computer science) is the A.M. Turing Award. Take a look at the list of past winners and you'll see all the great names (since the 60s, anyway).

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
  10. a real turing test... by psych031337 · · Score: 3, Funny

    The real proof that computers have reached human levels of "intelligence" would be a machine that will blame a mistake onto another, hierarchically lower machine.

    --
    +++ath0
  11. Go and vote for the Doctor to return ! by Salsaman · · Score: 4, Informative
    Just follow the link here .


    (Text padding to get past the filter.)

  12. Audio formats by Scooby+Snacks · · Score: 4, Informative
    This is cool news (the accompanying art is a nice touch with this Dr. Who presentation), but it would be nice if they would put the episodes into more audio formats as well.
    If you don't like RealAudio (and who does?), you might want to check out vsound. If you're wondering what it is, here are a couple words from the web page:
    "VSound is a sort of like a `virtual audio loopback cable'. That is, it allows you to record the output audio stream of a program (similar to connecting a loopback cable to the line in and line out jacks on the sound card, and recording the sound from the line in jack, but without the DA/AD conversion losses). One possible use for this application is as part of a RealAudio to wav file converter."
    It's pretty neat -- it uses the LD_PRELOAD trick to override certain library functions, allowing you to save the sound from an application like RealPlayer. I've used it myself before, and it works, and works well.

    If you have a Debian system, here's all you need to do:

    root@localhost:~# apt-get install vsound

    If you're on another system, you'll need to download the a href="http://www.zip.com.au/~erikd/vsound/vsound-0 .5.tar.gz">source and also make sure that you have sox installed. (vsound uses sox to convert the raw .au into wav format, which you can then compress however you'd like.)

    --

    --
    Runnin' around, robbin' banks all whacked on the Scooby Snacks...
  13. Germans were beaten after Moscow 1941 by joneshenry · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Did Enigma play a decisive role in stopping Germany in World War II? Curiously as time has gone by and veils of secrecy are lifted, I wonder if the role is being overemphasized to justify the hidden large budgets of today's intelligence agencies.

    In truth Germany was beaten after it failed to capture Moscow in fall 1941. The Germans were completely unprepared for a winter campaign, not even having adequate clothing for their soldiers let alone other supplies. After the failure to take Moscow, Hitler dismissed many of his top generals including the father of German armor Heinz Guderian. Perhaps his decision to order the army to stand fast in the face of a strong Soviet counterattack that winter saved the front from total collapse, but otherwise, Hitler in command was an endless series of catastrophes such as Stalingrad and Kursk.

    The argument I suppose is that had Great Britain been strangled by the German U-boats than the Soviet Union would not have been supplied by Lend Lease. Lend Lease provided all sorts of supplies including I believe basically the entire truck force that gave the Red Army mobility in the counterattack. However, the facts are that by December 1941 the Germans were already in retreat, they were going to lose stupendous numbers of men in the winter because of unpreparedness, the Soviets had a tank the T-34 coming into mass production better than any tank the Germans could ever produce in mass quantities, and Hitler was in personal command. Even with no Great Britain, Germany after 1941 needed to learn how to fight a defensive war to force a stalemate, precisely the type of strategy Hitler would never have authorized. And in addition, the Germans would not have been able to complete an atomic bomb for many years. Sure they would have had V2s but the Soviets had the more battlefield effective Katyusha. (Okay mass deployment was helped by those Lense Lease trucks.) Soviet technology was sufficient to counter Germany's, with the possible exception of rocket-powered fighters, a technology that Hitler delayed until it was too late due to his obsession with rocket bombers.

    It is possible that a hundred years from now the real intelligence agency story of World War II will be how Joseph Stalin in his paranoid purges destroyed the finest network of spies ever assembled. Think of this, a time when Communism still had sway as an effective religion to produce loyal agents in any country. The United States for the past few decades has been continuously learning that one can't buy that type of loyal fanatic agent abroad, which is why the US is so dependent on high tech and American citizen agents, a combination totally incapable of predicting anything in hostile areas. Even though Stalin tried to order all his foreign agents back to the Soviet Union to be executed, there was still enough of a remnant such as the Red Orchestra to give Stalin a precise warning of when the Germans would attack. But Stalin had screwed things up so badly that the Soviets were caught totally unprepared. The initial catastrophe of the first few months when Soviet forces were repeatedly surrounded and annihilated was the only reason the Germans got as far as they did. Had Stalin followed through using the human intelligence network he had at his disposal, Germany would have been beaten years sooner, and perhaps all of continental Europe is occupied by the Red Army.

    1. Re:Germans were beaten after Moscow 1941 by James_G · · Score: 4, Funny
      I think it would be incorrect to attribute the victory of the Allies to any one single event. There were many, many technical innovations and associated events that helped. To name but a few:

      • The invention of radar.
      • The counter-acting of German radar (Basically an early version of chaff, shredded tinfoil dropped in huge bales from the bombers).
      • Along the same vein, the use by the Allies of the German's own radar system to pinpoint targets along the coast of mainland Europe.
      • The discovery by polish soldiers of a crashed V2 rocket, of which they took lots of details and sent them to the Allies.
      • The cracking of Enigma, which was enourmous, and ultimately led to misinformation being sent back and fooling Hitler into believing the invading force was coming ashore in the wrong place.
      • Etc. etc. etc..

      There are far, far, far too many things to list here, I've mentioned just a scant few. No one single event is directly responsible.

      If you want to read a good book about the technical innovations behind WWII, I'd recommend "Secret Weapons of World War II". An excellent read, with a great deal of detail on the hundreds of small independant events (Maybe even coincidences) that shifted the balance ever so slightly in favour of the allies.

  14. Trademark holders are the squatters by sparcv9 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Still BattleBots is dumb not to have registered the .org domain.
    Why? Are they a non-profit organization now? People always seem to forget the original intents of the com/net/org TLDs. At least there are still restrictions on edu/gov/mil. Even a lot of the gTLDs have restrictions on their categorical subdomains, like co.uk.
    --

    This is not a Fugazi .sig
    1. Re:Trademark holders are the squatters by david+duncan+scott · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Strictly speaking, the original intent for the .org was pretty much "other" To quote from RFC 1032:
      "ORG" exists as a parent to subdomains that do not clearly fall within the other top-level domains. This may include technical-support groups, professional societies, or similar organizations.

      Although this implies other than corporate, government, educational institution, military, or network op's, the more specific idea of .org being NPO came a bit later.
      --

      This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander

  15. The do have a website... by quecojones · · Score: 3, Informative

    The IEEE Annals of the History of Computing site is at http://www.computer.org/annals .

    --
    "PROFANITY is the inevitable literary crutch of the inarticulate MOTHER FUCKER." -- some PC user
  16. Torpedo Re:Germans were beaten after Moscow 1941 by joneshenry · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Thanks for the reply. I just have to disagree with all the points. :-)

    Overemphasis on new technology actually lengthened the war against Japan by 18 months. Read this for one of many accounts of how the United States' dogged insistence on the efficacy of the magnetic detonation torpedo rendered the US submarine fleet impotent for 18 months, whereas after downgrading to earlier technology of contact detonation (and other fixes) the submarine fleet succeeded in sinking more than half of Japanese shipping, in effect imposing a total naval blockage. Note how scientific theory was perverted to reject empirical evidence from the submarine crews.

    US intelligence had plenty of chances to have successfully warned the country of imminent Japanese attack. What saved the US was that the Japanese were so far below the US level of industrial capability and resources that even a perfect plan might not have been sufficient. The only Japanese hope was to have destroyed the oil storage tanks at Pearl Harbor in a follow-up attack. Ironically the Japanese own rigidity in their military thinking possibly influenced the commander of the fleet from pressing home the advantage, a pattern repeated when they failed at Leyte Gulf to seize the opening to attack the landing fleet.

    All the futuristic technology and information isn't going to help if the leadership at the top is incapable or unwilling to determine what is of the most importance. Fortunately for the winning side in World War II the opposition had far less industrial capability and resources. And what won the war was more from the bottom-up as entire populations united and bottlenecks were solved in practical ways. As the war progressed it became easier for men of merit to get their jobs done. In such improved environments a million small improvements could work their way into the war effort, so yes there was some technical progress. But remember the Germans had V2 rockets and jet fighters and they still lost.

    It seems to me the modern American large corporation is not facing a lack of technology problem, it's facing organization problems. The people at the top who are supposed to be setting direction for the company cannot or will not accurately access the reams of information at their disposal. In story after story I read about World War II, the solution to a problem turns out to be putting the competent man in charge and letting him use his expertise. Preconceptions, ideology, and prejudice driving policy are the enemy.

  17. Re:Suicide? by Ronin+SpoilSpot · · Score: 3, Informative

    Another Slashdot post calls him the "Father of Computer Science". That's going a bit far, but CompSci does owe him a lot. And he probably rates as the first computer geek.

    Turing is, if not the father of computer science, then at least one of them, and while he might have been a geek, it is his theoretical work that he is most remembered for.

    His "halting problem" is as important a result as Gödel's incompletenes theorem and Russel's paradox. It puts a hard limit on the theoretical capabilities of computers that impacts most branches of computer science, e.g. any optimizing compiler is affected since the enabling analyses are necessarily limited.
    The turing machine itself, as a model of computation, has become the standard measure in complexity theory.
    The most prestigious award in computer science is the Turing Award (like for mathematics, there is no Nobel price :).

    Turing gave us one of the foundations of modern computer science, and I'm sure his name will be remembered long after everybody have forgotten who Bill Gates was... so I don't think it is wrong
    to call him a father of computer science.

    /RS - theoretical computer scientist
  18. Re:Torpedo Re:Germans were beaten after Moscow 194 by duffbeer703 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Mark VII torpedo scandal is a well known one. Less known is that the Germans suffered almost the exact same issue for over a year with signifigant impact to their U-boat operations.

    There is a good reason why navies were pushing magnetic detonation: contact detonation sucks. Modern (as in post 1905) warships and some merchant vessels are sectioned off into watertight bulkheads to improve survivability in the event of a hull breach. Most ships can suffer a breach of 30-50% of its watertight compartments before sinking!

    A contact-detonated torpedo often only blows a hole in one or two compartments. Thus, you need to fire four or more torpedoes which are in very limited supply (about 18 per boat, with a 20minute reload time)

    Magnetic detonators explode directly beneath the hull of a ship, breaking the keel of the target and causing massive flooding. When magnetic detonators were perfected, most any non-capital ship could be sunk with a single torpedo hit.

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
  19. Battle Bots by geekoid · · Score: 3, Informative

    What is the obsession with having all the domain names? Its getting realy annoying, so some kid has got the .org? as long as he doesn't rty to convince people he's part of the battlebots that ComedyCentral airs, let it go.

    anybody who is looking for battlebots can find it.

    Perhap I should get a class action suit against battlebots. I have yet to see a bot(automated device). I see lots of RC cars with saws and hammers smashing into each other, but no bots.

    In fact they wouldn't allow me to enter an actual bot into there contest. Sad really.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect