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MIT Sues Sony over digital TV

dfinney wrote to us with a story from The Tech, concerning MIT suing Sony. Basically, MIT claims to have a number of patents, has worked with other folks in the industry, sez they've talked with Sony for a year, no headway, don't want to sue, but have key claims - etc etc.

37 of 160 comments (clear)

  1. And We're OFF.... by darkPHi3er · · Score: 3, Interesting

    when the economy is good all men and women are brothers and sisters...

    when times are BAD.....

    the Japanese economy just hit a two-decade (17 year to be more precise) low...

    Japanese banks are being given lending capital from the Central Bank at ***ZERO*** percent interest, and there are few-to-NO takers....

    at some point, the Intellectual Property War between the West and the East is really going to heat up

    historically, MIT has been very much a "Good Citizen" on the issues of cross/conflicting patents...Sony, historically, has been so-so

    could this be an early skirmish in the upcoming IP Wars????

    Now, if we're going to do "Lawyers At Dawn", I officially suggest that we carpet bomb Tokyo with attorneys from B-52's and B-1B's in HUGE WAVES

    --
    Ten quid, she's so easy to blind. And not a word is spoken...
    1. Re:And We're OFF.... by sharkey · · Score: 2

      could this be an early skirmish in the upcoming IP Wars????

      Yes. The documentaries of it will be filmed in Japanese then overdubbed in Engrish for release in the States.

      Bits of intercepted communication between two combatants:
      15.123.21.168: Ha ha ha! My Class A makes your Unroutable C jelly!
      192.168.0.25: Our do not pay the rate for A. We are one C for Internet.
      15.123.21.168: All your NAT are belong to us!
      192.168.0.25: My policy DENY will hide ping from you!
      15.123.21.168: Make your DDOS.
      192.168.0.25: Default DROP every packet 15.123.21.168.
      192.168.0.25: For great QOS.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    2. Re:And We're OFF.... by dillon_rinker · · Score: 2

      Naw...even at terminal velocity, they don't do much more than go *splat*. Air raid sirens would warn innocent civilians to hide under indoors under tables and away from skylights and the like.

      If we target law schools and legal firms, we can probably overwhelm them with the volume and mass of attorneys we drop as well as reduce their ability to retaliate.

      Move every justice...for great big *splat*

  2. Re:I don't get it... by matrix0040 · · Score: 4, Informative

    No MIT is not a federally funded university.
    From mit.edu:
    Massachusetts Institute of Technology -- a coeducational, privately endowed research university

    Ofcourse there are some projects which get federal grant but not all and so it also has the right to patent stuff like any other research institute

  3. Sony had better watch out by CptnKirk · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sony should be careful here. While MIT doesn't want a conflict, their Jedi are more than capable of turning the Sony corporate offices into the world's largest VU Meter. And if that doesn't show them the light, how are they going to work without any offices.

  4. About TV... by manon · · Score: 2, Funny

    This might be a Judge Judy case ;)

    --
    42 + 1 = 42
  5. graduate student inventions by mj6798 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    A lot of the truly novel ideas at a place like MIT are developed by graduate students, often with little or no input from professors. That can make the ethical question of ownership of those ideas a bit murky: graduate students aren't exactly getting paid a lot, and what they do get paid often doesn't come from MIT funds (but instead from fellowships and government grants). Of course, legally, you can be sure that MIT's lawyers have it all nailed down airtight.

    I believe that in comparison to other educational institutions, MIT is quite a bit more enlightened, giving inventors 1/3 of any licensing revenues (at least in some departments). Universities like USF (hint: a place probably best avoided by smart students) have their student inventors thrown in jail if they want the exclusive rights to a promising invention.

    As for these specific patents, it would be interesting to know what they are for: do they really represent interesting inventions, or is it the kind of patent that claims "any television that uses a framebuffer and a CPU".

    1. Re:graduate student inventions by Rimbo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That can make the ethical question of ownership of those ideas a bit murky: graduate students aren't exactly getting paid a lot, and what they do get paid often doesn't come from MIT funds (but instead from fellowships and government grants). Of course, legally, you can be sure that MIT's lawyers have it all nailed down airtight.

      What the graduate students get out of it is that when they get their Ph.D., they are the foremost experts in the world in one subject. From the time of their discovery to the point they publish, they alone know the answer to a problem many people (if they choose their battles wisely) want answered.

      The point of academia is fame, not fortune. People who want to make their discoveries and get paid well for them go into industry, or become entrepreneurs. Academia is where you may not get paid for your idea, but everyone considers you an expert, and you get speaking engagements, press interviews, and the like.

    2. Re:graduate student inventions by krmt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While you're right about things being murky, you do have to remember that the University does fund a great deal, including lab space, supplies, and even simple administrative stuff like waste disposal (critical for biohazard), mail, phone, and internet. While salaries don't really come from anything but grants and Teaching Assistant stipends, the University does provide a lot of important stuff.

      I totally agree that the inventor should get a significant cut of the pie (I'm biased though, being an undergrad lab assistant ;-) you can't cut out the University because they are critical for a lot of reasons.

      --

      "I may not have morals, but I have standards."

    3. Re:graduate student inventions by radja · · Score: 2

      >The point of academia is fame, not fortune.

      actually, the point is knowledge. not fame, not fortune.

      //rdj

      --

      No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
      --Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
    4. Re:graduate student inventions by AftanGustur · · Score: 2
      The point of academia is fame, not fortune. People who want to make their discoveries and get paid well for them go into industry, or become entrepreneurs.


      The whole issue is not about money, you are wrong there, but rather to get recognition for your ideas and inventions. After all they are YOUR ideas and inventions.

      So, if you make a discovery, it will be your discovery.

      --
      echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
    5. Re:graduate student inventions by Rogerborg · · Score: 4, Interesting
      • The point of academia is fame, not fortune. People who want to make their discoveries and get paid well for them go into industry
      • I am under an NDA agreement. My employer decides who I may and may not share my knowledge with, and can legally gag me.
      • My employer owns all rights to my inventions.
      • My employer uses my inventions for their financial gain.

      From that description, you tell me whether I work in "academia" or "industry". There is no dividing line any more.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    6. Re:graduate student inventions by NMerriam · · Score: 2

      While salaries don't really come from anything but grants and Teaching Assistant stipends, the University does provide a lot of important stuff.

      All of the administrative overhead is covered by your grants and outside funding as well. Most places (depending on the university) take anywhere from 25-50% of your grant to cover overhead.

      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    7. Re:graduate student inventions by mj6798 · · Score: 2
      While you're right about things being murky, you do have to remember that the University does fund a great deal, including lab space, supplies, and even simple administrative stuff like waste disposal (critical for biohazard), mail, phone, and internet.

      That may be true in the biosciences, but in computer science and signal processing, even ten years ago, buying a research-capable workstation was a matter of a few thousand dollars (cheaper than today's high-end PCs), and the incremental cost of Internet access was pretty low even back then. Office space isn't all that expensive either in most places, and universities generally pay less. As others have pointed out, universities cover those expenses as "overhead" out of grants anyway. (I hope digital television research doesn't generate a lot of biohazards, btw.)

    8. Re:graduate student inventions by epukinsk · · Score: 2

      Sucks to be you. :)

      -Erik

    9. Re:graduate student inventions by Rogerborg · · Score: 2
      • I can't tell if you are in academia or industry, but you either picked the wrong school or the wrong employer

      At the time I chose them, they were a good employer. Then they turned evil, and I have a mortage to pay and stock options to wait on. Unlike in Dilbert, employers don't usually put signs outside saying "Evil Research Megalabs".

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  6. Re:It's 'bout time they paid up. by Zico · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Of course if the roles were reversed, most people here would be telling us how evil patents are and talking about boycotting Sony. Funny how that works, huh?

  7. Newsflash: MIT got sued over the idea of INSTITUTE by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 2, Offtopic



    Newsflash:

    While MIT is preoccupied with suing Sony for
    allerged intellectual property disputes, MIT
    itself got sued by those who originate the
    concept of INSTITUTION - in which, the word
    INSTITUTE is part of it.

    Great and dead Greek philosophers from ancient
    time, such as Socrates are among those who
    are trying to get back the INSTITUTION idea
    from MIT.

    If MIT lost the suit, MIT will have to drop
    the word "INSTITUTE" from its namesake.

    Therefore, it *IS* a possibility that we may
    see MT to replace MIT. Or perhaps, MUT -
    Massachusette *UNIVERSITY* of Technology.

    But then.... the intellectual concept of
    UNIVERSITY was not orginated from the campus
    of MIT either.

    Ah ... well.

    Stay tuned for the result !

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  8. Re:Even if it were entirely federally funded... by Zico · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Because it also allows American small businesses and individual hackers to walk away with a huge amount of research, too. And no, it isn't free, because we all pay taxes, including Sony. Note that I'm not arguing whether or not MIT is federally funded or not, but if they were, then why should they be entitled to all the loot when the American people are the venture capitalists who are paying for the seed money?

  9. Re:I'm curious... by platypus · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sony _has_ been in court for patent infringment before. The case was about the walkman which a german inventor named Andreas Pavel claimed to have a patent for (granted 1977!)
    They stumped him with an armee of lawyers, court costs for him were abough 2.000.000 british pounds.
    Note that before that sony actually had payed him appr. 50.000$ - while they sold walkmen for a couple of billion $s worldwide.

  10. Re:I'm curious... by Fat+Casper · · Score: 2, Interesting
    It's nice to see this happeining with someone that Sony can't bury with lawyers. MIT isn't doing this for the money- they want a judgement. They aren't a lone inventor without the deep pockets needed to make Sony behave politely. This will be fun to watch.

    --
    I spent a year in Iraq looking for WMD and all I found was this lousy sig.
  11. US Laws and Extraterritoriality by LordZardoz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sony is a Japanese company. Does the US Legal system really have much right to tell a Japanese company what technologies it can and cannot develop?

    The only reasons I can think of for Sony to comply are Japanese surrender terms from World War 2, or trade agreements that would get Sony to recognize US patents. In that case, it would be the Japanese Govt who should be enforcing this, not the US courts.

    END COMMUNICATION

    1. Re:US Laws and Extraterritoriality by plumby · · Score: 3, Informative

      Most governments (including the US and Japan) have signed up to WIPO (www.wipo.org), the World Intelectual Property Organisation, who's job it is expressly to manage multinational IP issues, and these kinds of issues are frequently upheld across national bounderies.

    2. Re:US Laws and Extraterritoriality by aozilla · · Score: 3, Informative

      Does the US Legal system really have much right to tell a Japanese company what technologies it can and cannot develop?


      This would be a valid point if the patent described the process of making the hardware. That infringement at least potentially takes place completely outside the US would have to resort to asking other countries for help and if they didn't get it then resort to trade embargos or just give up.


      But more likely the patent describes the use of the product, and by selling the product in the US, Sony places itself under US jurisdiction for contributory patent infringement (selling a product which is designed for the primary purpose of infringing patents, essentially). Sounds pretty similar to what Dmitry Sklyarov was allegedly doing, doesn't it?

      --
      ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
    3. Re:US Laws and Extraterritoriality by dillon_rinker · · Score: 2

      Whatever country you go to in the world, you have to obey their laws. The US is no exception. If you send your representatives to the US to do business, they must abide by the laws governing US businesses or suffer the consequences. WHile it's true that Sony proper might not be affected by a US decision, the courts could demand that all Sony assets in the US be seized or frozen.

      However, this is all moot, because there is a Sony Inc. in the US. Nyah.

  12. This link works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Google Cached Page

    The post above has a space in it that shouldn't be there.

  13. Google Cache of the page by defence+budget · · Score: 3, Informative

    The server appears to be down(/.tted?) The google cache of the page can be found here or in geocities.

  14. Re:i guess you didn't get in? by DGolden · · Score: 2

    Personally, I've found that the only reason I needed to go to University was to prove to other people I knew lots of things, so I could get a day job to support my hobbies.

    (University was also nice for the social life, and the high-speed internet access (10 Base T LAN, then a fibre hop or two away from the UK JANET backbone in Manchester - bloody fast!), but they're hardly necessary...)

    The stuff I was interested in myself I learnt anyway, by getting books/ online docs and reading them, experimenting myself, and talking to people.

    If there was some way to print a verifiable listing of the stuff peoples' brains contain (like a guaranteed-true CV), it would save a lot of people the hassle of paying for a University to rubberstamp knowledge they have anyway.

    --
    Choice of masters is not freedom.
  15. Stanford ignores Sun, SGI, CISCO, Yahoo by peter303 · · Score: 2

    A four of those companies started as grad student projects
    (routers were a computer staff project).
    Stanford pretty much ignored them when they started
    companies. This is documented in Revenge of the
    Nerds, series II. And I used the the prototypes
    of the first three during my years at Stanford.
    In fact, the name SUN originally stood for Stanford
    University Network.

    On the other hand for each of these mega-successes,
    there are ten failures. Todays NY Times has a
    story about a Stanford student dropping out to
    start an unsuccessful dot.com, then returning
    to finish the degree. He says that his frathouse
    had eight dot.coms running on Stanford servers
    during the peak- none of them succeeding.

  16. Not to add facts to the fire but.... by maggard · · Score: 5, Informative
    Coupla basic points: (easily discovered by anyone willing to invest the same time at a search engine as they did posting something foolish to /.)
    • MIT is a private institution. Yes it gets money from public grants & programs, almost every accredited institution does. MIT is no more a public or government entity then the trade schools that advertise on late night TV. Furthermore even parts of the US Gov't doing public work can now claim IP on some of their products.
    • Yes MIT uses Graduate Students and no they don't generally earn much. On the other hand putting them to work probably does keep their tuition down a bit and heck, if you don't like it you can always go someplace else (courts rarely require X years attending MIT as part of a sentence and the campus is very open, one is free to leave it and not return at any time.) However this has nothing to do with the topic and just gets brought up every time a .edu issue is raised.
    • The US HDTV standards happened after the FCC ran a competition in which four finalists emerged. Rather then a winner-take-all situation emerging (which would of taken years with the legal wrangling) a pooling of the "best" of a various technologies was brokered. As the patent & other IP issues around HDTV were spread out amongst several institutions and companies a pool was created held by the companies who now dubbed themselves "The Grand Alliance". Then as any other number of projects have done (DVD, Firewire, etc.) an examiner was brought in to determine exactly what IP was required then a formula was put in place to compensate the IP owners and everything got signed off on.
    • MIT earns some large sum of money every year from it's IP material, money which helps fund them. Sony does the same from it's own portfolio. In this case MIT's IP is used through the Grand Alliance agreement, something which Sony seems to have now decided to ignore. Whether or not you agree with all details of all IP in this case it seems rather strightforward and not to fall into any of the areas which so many folks find offensive.
    • Yes MIT (a US institution) can sue Sony (a company HQ'd in Japan.) Internationial trade has been going on since we first worked out nations and the laws are rather straightforward in cases like this. Did anyone other then a few sappy posters think that this was a new situation, that one couldn't sue an offshore entity?
    --
    I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
    1. Re:Not to add facts to the fire but.... by iabervon · · Score: 2

      I know that MIT's CS and EE programs have been accredited for a long time, and their half-and-half program got accredited about 6 years ago. So I believe their programs are generally accredited, although new programs probably don't get accredited until they've worked out all the details and had them around for a bit.

      Practically, it probably doesn't matter much, because MIT itself is so well known.

    2. Re:Not to add facts to the fire but.... by fgodfrey · · Score: 2

      There are multiple different acredidation boards. The one that would do MIT is almost certainly different than the one that would do Missouri-Columbia. I know that the one that does Ripon College (where I grew up) is totally different than the one that does Carnegie Mellon (where I went to school).

      --
      Go Badgers! -- #include "std/disclaimer.h"
  17. Re:It's 'bout time they paid up. by handorf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If the situation were reversed, MIT wouldn't stand to make billions off the stolen tech.

    --
    -- IANAEG - I am not an elder god.
  18. Re:I don't get it... by r_j_prahad · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Isn't MIT a federally funded University? I always thought that university research should go in public domain, no copyrights, no patents, no nothin' ... and here we have every week at least one case of some university suing whomever for patent violations... odd


    It hasn't been that way for a long time now. The sale and licensing of intellectual property can represent a significant source of income to a university, and those dollars can be used to offset tuition costs and operating expenses, which is a good thing.

    It's no different than intercollegiate sports; the players aren't professionals, public funds help pay their tuitions, why shouldn't we get into the games for free? Because the ticket fees help support the program so my taxes don't have to.

  19. I went to MIT! by peter303 · · Score: 2

    And it was like living inside slashdot 24/7.

    (Actually a higher quality slashdot where
    everyone knows what they are talking about instead
    of the 20% here.)

  20. Media lab role by Animats · · Score: 2

    The MIT Media Lab did considerable work on digital TV back in the late 1980s, from whence this patent dates. But the Media Lab was a place where corporations could buy in and get rights to all the technology developed there. Sony was one of those corporations. So I'd have thought they'd have rights to those patents.

  21. Accreditation can be overrated by hawk · · Score: 2
    I went throught the AACSB renewal process a couple of years ago as a visiting professor. Quite bluntly, their accreditation means nothing. It used to require certain levels of library, faculty education and activity, etc. Only about half of the schools qualified, so the other schools came up with a body to accredit themselves. Faced with a choice between standards and market share, the AACSB chose market share.


    I felt as if I was trapped in a bad Dilbert sequence on ISO 9000. I actually saw the answers coming. THeir focus now is on "outcome assessment." You can be as bad as you want, as long as you're measuring something.


    At this campus, I'm involved in the Bachelor of Science in Business (BSB) program. It is a separate program from the Smeal college on the main campus, as they had accreditation concerns. Now some of the faculty in this program are talking about accreditation, and I (and others) are opposed to even applying. The Penn State name means a lot more than AACSB. We would be foolish to make any changes to satisfy them; it would be a tradeoff of standards for nonsense.


    In fact, I don't want to stop at not applying; I want an official statement explaining the reason, and stating our willingness to joinin forming a body that accredits based on standards and quality rather than process.


    hawk, of course speaking for himself and neither the program or the university.