SVG Now a W3 Recommendation

Bob_Juanita writes: "The W3C has finally made the Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) format an official recommendation." I'm looking forward to this - SVG looks to have a lot of potential for web development. Easy, dynamic, scalable graphics from database data - nice.

Comments

Why not FLASH SWF?

[Bubblesculpter]

Why the push for yet another standard?

Flash SWF format already has widespread installation... SVG has about 0%.

The SWF format is already open standard, letting Flash vector animation files be created by anybody who is willing to create a program for it. There are a number of such programs available, including several open source linux varieties...

Flash SWF also has very powerful Object Oriented programming features available with Actionscript. You can do amazing things with it, especially for custom applications.

Don't get me wrong, I think most of the Flash used currently is wasteful, annoying crap! But there are some really great applications of Flash that I have seen, and many more are emerging.

Have you ever tried to make dynamic web-based applications that run in a browser using javascript, java, DHTML, etc? Almost impossible to get anything that runs cross-browser/platform without writing multiple versions of it.. FLASH works great on Netscape, Explorer, Linux, PC, Mac, etc.

Flash already supports XML data transfer and when used in conjunction with a Database on the webserver, *powerful* apps emerge! For any application involving more than static text on a screen, Flash excels...

I didn't feel this way a few months ago, I just thought flash was annoying for animations... ..then when i looked into Flash to solve some web-based app problems I was having with cross-broswer DHTML, etc, I was convinced! Properly used Flash is great!

So why use another standard proposed as SVG when there is already a great vector graphic system available that has lots of features: O.O. scripting, XML, huge user base, cross-platform compatibility?

Re:Why not FLASH SWF?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Why the push for yet another standard?
> Flash SWF format already has widespread
> installation... SVG has about 0%.
Adobe's SVG viewer is bundled with all new Reader, Illustrator and GoLive. They also have a deal with Real Networks to release the plugin with realplayer.

> The SWF format is already open standard,
> letting Flash vector animation files be created
> by anybody who is willing to create a program
> for it. There are a number of such programs
> available, including several open source linux > varieties...
SVG is XML based so any XML tools that can create XML documents can be used to create SVG documents. There are also several SVG specific tools and viewers such as Apache's Batik project. See http://xml.apache.org

> Flash SWF also has very powerful Object
> Oriented programming features available with
> Actionscript. You can do amazing things with
> it, especially for custom applications.
OO features are also available with SVG, using ECMAScript [aka JavaScript]

> Don't get me wrong, I think most of the Flash
> used currently is wasteful, annoying crap! But > there are some really great applications of
> Flash that I have seen, and many more are
> emerging.
I believe SVG and Flash will coexist, they'll both have appications that they are better suited for.

> Have you ever tried to make dynamic web-based
> applications that run in a browser using
> javascript, java, DHTML, etc? Almost impossible > to get anything that runs cross
> -browser/platform without writing multiple
> versions of it.. FLASH works great on Netscape, > Explorer, Linux, PC, Mac, etc.
How many web-based Flash applications are there besides a few trivial Flash based games? I agree with you point though, SVG is not well suited for complex web based applications.

> Flash already supports XML data transfer and
> when used in conjunction with a Database on
> the webserver, *powerful* apps emerge! For any > application involving more than static text on > a screen, Flash excels...
You forgot to mention that these "apps" and their database integration is flaky at best. SVG is text based making server side generation of SVG with database data is trivial.

> So why use another standard proposed as SVG
> when there is already a great vector graphic
> system available that has lots of features:
> O.O. scripting, XML, huge user base, cross-
> platform compatibility?
A few points.
Flash is binary, making changes difficult. To make a change to an SVG document just open it up with a text editor.

Flash doesn't support CSS well, SVG does.

Flash doesn't integrate well with HTML documents.

It is much easier to generate SVG dynamically then it is to generate Flash.

just check it out

[tobi_pinkjuice.com]

Would any of you use Dreamweaver without being able to view and edit the source? So why would anyone create vector animations in Flash without being able to view and edit the source?
SVG code is a little verbose, but very human readable. Check out a preview version of WebDraw: http://www.jasc.com/webdraw.asp One can also view source of online SVGs; fun.

It's XML, so parse/manipulate/generate it with any of your favourite XML tools in any of your favourite programming languages. XML content can be transformed to visual versions for different environments.
(how fast can you say "QuickJugglingMarkupLanguageViaXSLTtoSVGAnimation" or
"myOwnSlideshowMarkupLanguageViaRubyOrPythonToVect orAnimations" in the Flash/SWF world?)

Since dynamic generation is so convenient, and SVG is a truly high quality format, you can internationalize and personalize content without too much fuss, using all the open source technologies that don't even have to know about SVG. It has Unicode, it's own font format, is searchable and indexable, and works well with CSS, XSLT, RDF, later SMIL and XForms. I'm trying to avoid the word "professional", but don't succeed.

Give it a try, check the spec (not to say RT*M)), and basically have great fun.

The spec: (pretty readable)
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/
W3's SVG page:
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/
More links: (mine)
http://www.pinkjuice.com/SVG/SVGlinks.htm

Using SVG

[jdevons]

I know that we have actually been using SVG for some time on one of our production sites. But we have been looking into other alternatives such as flash generation.

So it's good to finally see that this might become a standard. Now, when will IE and Netscape support it?

Adobe plugin and more.

[LetterJ]

Though it's been mentioned in passing, Adobe's SVG viewer, though distributed alone, is also included in the standard distribution of Acrobat Reader 5.

To those who are predicting SVG's demise, I have several comments.

1. No, the current versions of the browsers don't support it natively now. However, did those browsers support HTML 4.0, CSS, PNG or any other of a host of open standards as of the week the spec was finalized?
   
2. Some people seem to be focusing on an either/or between SVG and Flash. Remember that animation isn't SVG's only purpose. There currently isn't any other open standard graphic format for building charts and graphs while letting the text of those charts be indexable.
   
3. For some reason, Macromedia is praised for it's open spec on SWF even though they could close it off. MS has "open" file format specs, but they get bashed. Flash is just like GIF, Fraunhoffer(sp) MP3 codec, Word 6.0, etc. They are controlled by a single company who can change the direction or licensing on a whim. SVG is like HTML, independent and completely open.