LimeWire Goes Open-Source

The famous Anonymous Coward writes: "I saw over on Gnutella News that LimeWire LLC announced that they're releasing the LimeWire codebase under the GPL license and that they've setup limewire.org as a site dedicated to Gnutella and LimeWire development. LimeWire's codebase is currently being used by two of the most popular Gnutella clients: LimeWire and SwapNut. As far as I know, this is the first time a formerly closed-source file-sharing codebase this popular has been open-sourced." gtk-gnutella is coming along nicely for Linux, but more competition is always better.

Comments

BREAKING NEWS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Breaking News: Osama Bin Ladin IS GAY!
www.MarkVD.net Rocks!

Re:BREAKING NEWS!

[ubertroll]

In fact, I think Osama Bin Laden is sexy.

Woot!

[minus23]

Nice I love this app.

nuts!

[Anonymous Coward]

i wouldn't like to have my nuts open sourced.

Gnutela on Linux

[guacamole]

LimeWire seems to the best Linux client around. Correct me if I am wrong. Way to go guys!

Re:Gnutela on Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

LimeWire is cool. Been using it for over a year now.

Re:Gnutela on Linux

[la8pv]

I think qtella is better: http://qtella.sourceforge.net/

Re:Gnutela on Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Limewire is the best -- for virus/worm writers. Otherwise, it's a piece of shit. Maybe that's why it compliments linux so well...

Re:Gnutela on Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

But, you are just one of those KDE idiots who always posts: "Hey, (K|Q).* is better" in every thread about software. Shut, the fuck up you moron, no-one cares about your zealous need to hype KDE and QT.

Java is just bytecode

[LazyDawg]

Translating java bytecode back into source code is not very hard. LimeWire, being a java app, was halfway open source already.

Sure, the function, class and variable names would be lost, but unless they did some screwy compiling, a halfway decent decompiler would make it readable enough to debug, rewrite, port or repair.

Re:Java is just bytecode

[mlinksva]

Source code availability does not open source make. No more than not requiring purchase makes free software. Perhaps it was halfway "shared source" before (but even that's being unfair to "shared source").

Congratulations to LimeWire for releasing an excellent libre software application!

Re:Java is just bytecode

[Snootch]

Translating java bytecode back into source code is not very hard. LimeWire, being a java app, was halfway open source already.

Not at all. The thing about that is that you would be breaking their copyright (and ergo the law) if you modified and/or redistributed the code. This way, it's properly free (RMS-sense), as opposed to just crackable.

Re:Java is just bytecode

[SimonK]

Only temporary variable names are lost, unless the author used a scrambling program. Class, field and method names are preserved, because the link process for Java occurs at load time, and they are needed for this.

Re:Java is just bytecode

[dstone]

LimeWire, being a java app, was halfway open source already.

It's illegal (or at least ignorant) comments like this that give the open source movement a bad name. By your reasoning, every OS and binary ever released is halfway to open source, since it disassembles easily into assembly code. And plenty of people are fluent in assembly to take the "project" over from there.

Being "open" takes intent on the part of the creator/releaser/licenser.

LimeWare on OS X!

[Thaidog]

It's awsome... Java at it's best.

Re:LimeWare on OS X!

[nbvb]

Agreed.

It works really, really well on OS X, what with the built in Java 2 and all. :-)

Re:LimeWare on OS X!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yikes, OS X and java? Hope you're not in a rush.

Re:LimeWare on OS X!

[separ8ist]

Sure it's a LITTLE slower than a regular app, but Limewire's latest release fixed a lot of issues that previous versions had (like the redraw after 'unhiding' is fixed for the most part), doesn't crash at startup as much and is a little faster than the last rev...[digression:but this version won't hold preferences for sharing files]. until macphex (ALSO JAVA) puts a file type option in the search capabilities, i'm using limewire.

Mr. Subliminal

[Anonymous Coward]

The dick famous Anonymous Coward writes: "I saw penis over on pussy
Gnutella News penis that dick LimeWire LLC announced that they're
releasing the LimeWire codebase under the GPL license and vagina that
penis they've setup limewire.org twat as cock a cock site dick dedicated
to twat Gnutella and penis LimeWire development. LimeWire penis's twat
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cock popular Gnutella clients: LimeWire pussy and SwapNut cock. As far as
I know, this is the first time a dick formerly twat closed-source pussy
file-sharing codebase penis this popular has been open pussy-sourced." gtk
pussy-gnutella twat is coming along nicely for Linux dick, but more
competition is always better.

Works great on Windows.

[Mustang Matt]

I've been using the Windows version for a while now.

They keep adding improvements fairly steadily. Each release is more stable and has better features than the last.

They really had nothing to lose going open source.

Re:Works great on Windows.

[sporty]

Mac version is pretty solid too. Only problem is under Mac's JVM, if you are running out of memory, new objects don't always get created.. so new connections, new widgets don't show up when you are low on mem. :)

But hey, its one kickin' client.

Re:Works great on Windows.

[brunes69]

Just to clarify, there is no "Windows version", "Linux version", or "Mac version". It is a 100% Java pprogram, and all versions are identical. You can run the LimeWire.jar file from an JVM and see the exact same client. The only difference between prepackaged versions is they wrap the JAR file in an executable launcher for that platform ( A .EXE for Windows, ELF for Linux, etc.)

Re:Works great on Windows.

[Anonymous Coward]

Then why is there a windows version, mac version and linux version on their download page? They're all different file sizes, it's not like one is not compressed, because the linux version doesn't compress any further and it's way bigger.

Re:Works great on Windows.

[Enahs]

Hello,

Like many other closed-source Java apps, LimeWire is prepackaged for different platforms to make it easier for one to install the client on various platforms. For Linux, one gets a nice Bash script that allegedly makes running LimeWire easier. ;-) Similarly, the MacOS version has a nice installer and a nice script that makes starting the client much easier to start up.

Hope that clears things up a bit.

Re:Works great on Windows.

[brunes69]

Just because the installer is different doesn't make the client any different. What I said still applys.

Open Source: The Industry's Death Rattle.

[The_Messenger]

If they were making money, it wouldn't be considered. Just like only crappy programmers write open-source software -- because they couldn't find jobs, with their lack of skill -- only dying companies embrace the open-source "business model." (*Snicker*) I look forward to their bankruptcy. Their absence makes room for aprofitable, closed-source capitalist software company to improve the economy while providing the public with great software at reasonable cost.

I spit on your lame open-source "community." I hope you all fucking die.

Re:Open Source: The Industry's Death Rattle.

[Anonymous Coward]

I spit on your lame open-source "community." I hope you all fucking die.

Then, why don't you go somewhere else? Why do you hang around here, posting hundreds of comments, lame trolls, and bitch and whine that moderators are "censors," when you could surely go somewhere else, maybe hang around an MSN chat board and talk about the wonderful new release of IIS that's coming out, or what a great thing IE6 is going to be, or what a boon to the industry the WPA technology will bring, and get your jollies talking to people with whom you share like interests? What is it that compels you to spend day after day hitting reload on Slashdot every twenty minutes.

Do you jerk your meat while you post? Do you like to be bitten, and scratched? Do you enjoy masochism, and being hated and detested? Are you SOME KIND OF SICK FUCK?

Or are you just a troll with nothing better to do? And if you were, how would I know the difference?

Linux Crap

[Anonymous Coward]

Argh! Linux sucks!!!! It's bloated, slow, shoddy. Download a real operating system.

Re:Linux Crap

[ubertroll]

db d888888b d8b db db db db db
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88 88 88V8o 88 88 88 `8bd8'
88 88 88 V8o88 88 88 .dPYb.
88booo. .88. 88 V888 88b d88 .8P Y8.
Y88888P Y888888P VP V8P ~Y8888P' YP YP

.d8888. db db db db .d88b. d8888b. d88888D
88' YP 88 88 `8b d8' .8P 88. 88 `8D YP d8'
`8bo. 88 88 `8bd8' 88 d'88 88oobY' d8'
`Y8b. 88 88 .dPYb. 88 d' 88 88`8b d8'
db 8D 88b d88 .8P Y8. `88 d8' 88 `88. d8' db
`8888Y' ~Y8888P' YP YP `Y88P' 88 YD d88888P

Re:Linux Crap

[Anonymous Coward]

Bloated and slow, yes.

I wish someone would write a bare-bones OS with assembler.

I'm so sick of having to download 23 M kernel (bzip2!) every time a new kernel comes out. Never got the patch to work.

Re:Linux Crap

[notext]

Well if you were to some how search and find(I couldn't find it for some reason when searching) there was a story on /. about a linux distro written in assembly. Its about as barebones as you're gonna get.

Re:Linux Crap

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, consider the extra download time a stupidity penalty for not being intelligent enough to figure out 'patch', or to use Google:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=how+do+I+ap pl y+kernel+patches

Re:Linux Crap

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I've tried both -p0 and -p1 options.

Doesn't work.

Re:Linux Crap

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you're a fucking moron

Re:Linux Crap

[Anonymous Coward]

And everyone on /. wonders why the average home user does not use Linux. It is due to the 'If you can't do X, you suck.' attitude

Re:Linux Crap

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, fact is GNU diff is quite good at producing diffs that GNU patch can't correctly apply.

I'm not just grumbling about the situation -- I've submitted bug reports, recreatable examples, and even bug fixes, but I've yet to hear an acknowledgment.

So you have the option of downloading everything or downloading the latest patch, applying it, have patch choke halfway and try to apply half of it by hand.

Why open source has no future

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's have a close look at the costs involved when running a Linux system.

An important factor in Linux' cost is its maintenance. Linux requires a *lot* of maintenance, work doable only by the relatively few high-paid Linux administrators that put themselves - of course willingly - at a great place in the market. Linux seems to be needing maintenance continuously, to keep it from breaking down.

Add to this the cost of loss of data. Linux' native file system, EXT2FS, is known to lose data like a firehose spouts water when the file system isn't unmounted properly. Other unix file systems are much more tolerant towards unexpected crashes. An example is the FreeBSD file system, which with soft updates enabled, performance-wise blows EXT2FS out of the water, and doesn't have the negative drawback of extreme data loss in case of a system breakdown.

The upcoming 'solution' to this, EXT3FS, is nothing more than an ugly hack to put journaling into the file system. All the drawbacks of the ancient EXT2FS file system remain in EXT3FS, for the sake of 'forward- and backward compatibility'. This is interesting, considering that the DOS heritage in the Windows 9x/ME series was considered a very bad thing by the Linux community, even though it provided what could be called one of the best examples of compatibility, ever. When it's about Linux, compatibility constraints don't seem to be that much of a problem for Linux advocates.

Back to Linux' cost. Factor in also the fact that crashes happen much more often on Linux than on other unices. On other unices, crashes usually are caused by external sources like power outages. Crashes in Linux are a regular thing, and nobody seems to know what causes them, internally. Linux advocates try to hide this fact by denying crashes ever happen. Instead, they have frequent "hardware problems".

The steep learning curve compared to about any other operating system out there is a major factor in Linux' cost. The system is a mix of features from all kinds of unices, but not one of them is implemented right. A Linux user has to live with badly coded tools which have low performance, mangle data seemingly at random and are not in line with their specification. On top of that a lot of them spit out the most childish and unprofessional messages, indicating that they were created by 14-year olds with too much time, no talent and a bad attitude.

I could go on and on and on, but the conclusion is clear. Linux is not an option for any one who seeks a professional OS with high performance, scalability, stability, adherence to standards, etc.

Re:Why open source has no future

[Anonymous Coward]

ROFL, I've never read any piece with such a blatant disregard for facts in my entire life. At least that BSD is dying junk was halfway decently written, this looks like it was a report done in Junior High. Backing up my facts with proper, VALID arguments, what's that? Nonsense.

Re:Why open source has no future

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahaha, you're an example of NOT using facts yourself. Try to counterargument the article, instead of badmounthing it (typical FUD tactic).

As it stands now, every item mentioned in the article represents daily experiences of people with Linux, which you can find anywhere except when you close your eyes explicitely for them. I'm so sorry for you that the truth is not what you would like it to be.

Come up with some arguments, dude. Oh, you can't? I thought so.

Re:Why open source has no future

[BitwizeGHC]

Junior high students at least go to the library and do a little research.

This is a trull. Ignore it.

Re:Why open source has no future

[jchristopher]

I know it's a troll, but...

The steep learning curve compared to about any other operating system out there is a major factor in Linux' cost.

Sadly, true. Unfortunately, you can't fix it without admitting that there is a problem, and I haven't had any luck convincing anyone that Linux has serious user-friendliness flaws. Can't see the forest for the trees, I suppose...

Re:Why open source has no future

[tzanger]

Linux requires a *lot* of maintenance, work doable only by the relatively few high-paid Linux administrators that put themselves - of course willingly - at a great place in the market.

Bullshit, plain and simple. Get the services installed, leave everything else off and the systems just run. Witness our RADIUS server, numerous fileservers and firewalls (all with hundreds of days of uptime and the only maintenance is a script which rotates logfiles and emails unusual activity) -- all with hundreds of days of uptime.

Like any other OS, the admin is responsible for monitoring the security mailing lists and installing patches. And like any other OS, you get what you pay for in an admin.

Linux' native file system, EXT2FS, is known to lose data like a firehose spouts water when the file system isn't unmounted properly.

That's a bold-faced flat-out lie. I run Linux on this laptop and have NUMEROUSLY had the volume level down too low to hear the battery alarm crying out. I've lost power at least three or four dozen times this year with no data loss.

Where EXT2 does lose data badly is when the metadata store gets corrupted (power dies when it's being updated or the drive gets bad sectors in those areas) -- However I also know that Reiser, NTFS and VFAT will die horribly under those cirumcstances too.

Factor in also the fact that crashes happen much more often on Linux than on other unices.

Let's see some hard numbers. I've been running 2.2.x kernels for literally YEARS without crashes. Quit running alpha drivers and unstable kernels and your stability will increase. This is just common sense.

The steep learning curve compared to about any other operating system out there is a major factor in Linux' cost.

So you consider a Win32 admin someone who can go to windowsupdate.microsoft.com? Or a SCO admin someone who can call the support hotline they pay for? I don't understand (nor have you given proof) for increased TCO for Linux.

(an aside: The Code Red fix wasn't included in any patches available from there. So whose fault is that, Microsoft for not making security a priority, or the click-happy "admin" for not knowing better?)

I could go on and on and on, but the conclusion is clear. Linux is not an option for any one who seeks a professional OS with high performance, scalability, stability, adherence to standards, etc.

I dunno, I've had no problems setting up and casually[1] admining firewalls, SMTP/IMAP/POP servers, LDAP servers, web servers and plain old fileservers. Like I said, once it is up and running, there is next to zero maintenance. This can be done with any unix; For me, Linux makes the most sense and none of my clients have had complaints about "increased costs of their Linux servers." I don't know whether you're a Win2k, SCO, Sun, QNX or *BSD troll, and frankly I don't care. Your post is so full of shit that I just had to feed you. FUD is FUD.

[1] - I use the term "casually admin" to describe what I do: monitor the security lists, provide updates as necessary and receive the emailled logs. The only time I ssh in is to change the configuration based on a customer's request or perform security updates. To me, this is exactly what server administration should be.

Re:Why open source has no future

[DahGhostfacedFiddlah]

Installing new programs/configuring old ones, I'll give you. You have to wade through a bunch of man pages and websites to even figure out which of the 200 /etc files you should be looking in.

However I recently installed Redhat 7.1, and it was at least as easy - if not easier - to do a default workstation install than Win98 (the last one I installed). All my hardware was auto-detected, and works perfectly - which is commendable for a system for which many companies still do not provide drivers.

If I were an average Windows user who didn't want anything more than out-of-the-box usability, then this would have been perfect for me. As soon as install was done, I had web access, e-mail, an office suite (not perfect, as people will point out, but still good), more built-in card games than Windows can shake a stick at, etc, etc. It took me a complete screw-up of KDE to figure out rpm, but now that I can use that, I don't have to worry about installations anymore either.

The biggest learning-curve problem is that there is no easy-to-use GUI version of a lot of command-line stuff, so people still have to know their way around the command line. Even that's disappearing though, so I think the learning-curve problem will be no worse than Windows' in a short while.

Re:Why open source has no future

[Snootch]

First off, I'd like to point out that Linux is not the same as Open Source software.

An important factor in Linux' cost is its maintenance. Linux requires a *lot* of maintenance, work doable only by the relatively few high-paid Linux administrators that put themselves - of course willingly - at a great place in the market. Linux seems to be needing maintenance continuously, to keep it from breaking down.

From this I conclude that you have never had to administrate an MS-based network. We keep up with the latest stuff, use all-MS solutions, and our sysadmin has to put out fires semi-daily. SO much for claiming to represent those in the trenches.

Add to this the cost of loss of data. Linux' native file system, EXT2FS, is known to lose data like a firehose spouts water when the file system isn't unmounted properly. Other unix file systems are much more tolerant towards unexpected crashes. An example is the FreeBSD file system, which with soft updates enabled, performance-wise blows EXT2FS out of the water, and doesn't have the negative drawback of extreme data loss in case of a system breakdown.

I use dodgy hardware a lot of the time, and my machines frequently get nuked by power cuts. I have never had anything that fsck has not fixed automatically. Ever (OK, one exception - I had to enter the root pasword and follow the simple on-screen instructions to run fsck manually). I have, however, seen several fs's get nuked completely by a power off, and they were all - guess what? - windows FAT partitions. I can see the word "scandisk" appearing on your lips, but that didn't do a thing - and because of the behind-the-scenes and non-configurable system startup, when it touched something vital, I had to bloody reinstall the whole OS rather than just the bit which had failed.

The upcoming 'solution' to this, EXT3FS, is nothing more than an ugly hack to put journaling into the file system. All the drawbacks of the ancient EXT2FS file system remain in EXT3FS, for the sake of 'forward- and backward compatibility'.

EXT3 doesn't try to fix these (as far as I can see) nonexistant grave problems. It is simply what you say it is - a hack to get journalling onto EXT". Incidentally, journalling does give far better crash support so I can't really see what you're whining about there.

This is interesting, considering that the DOS heritage in the Windows 9x/ME series was considered a very bad thing by the Linux community, even though it provided what could be called one of the best examples of compatibility, ever. When it's about Linux, compatibility constraints don't seem to be that much of a problem for Linux advocates.

See my earlier comments about comparing DOS/FAT filesystems with EXT2. Plus, of course, the objection is mostly that MS chose such a cruddy OS to build themselves around (8.3 filenames? Yeeuurgh!), rather than just emulating it (which is what they do now with the NT codebase, and is far less brain-damaged).

Crashes in Linux are a regular thing, and nobody seems to know what causes them, internally.

Examples? A reference to some of the downtime-statistics pages would be useful, as last time I checked I found Linux-hosted sites were far harder to push over than Win2K ones. (This is in addition to personal experience with our network).

Linux advocates try to hide this fact by denying crashes ever happen. Instead, they have frequent "hardware problems".

I have worked with old and buggy as well as bleeding-edge kernels, and I have still never had a crash apart from with dodgy memory (which also nuked Winblows on startup with no diagnostic info whatsoever), and the teardrop attack, which is now defended against.

The steep learning curve compared to about any other operating system out there is a major factor in Linux' cost. The system is a mix of features from all kinds of unices, but not one of them is implemented right. A Linux user has to live with badly coded tools which have low performance, mangle data seemingly at random and are not in line with their specification.

As you accuse others of evidence-free FUD, could you come up with a defence of this please? What buggy stuff, apart from the things labelled beta? What badly-implemented UNIX features?

On top of that a lot of them spit out the most childish and unprofessional messages, indicating that they were created by 14-year olds with too much time, no talent and a bad attitude. And as for specifications, Linux is considered one of the reference POSIX implementations.



The talent in abundance is indicated by the fact that you rarely see any of these error messages. Plus, of course, I far prefer to see an "oops" and an apology from the programmer when a crash occurs, rather than Windows' cold wording and habit of blaming it all on the "current application".

I could go on and on, but the conclusion is clear. This is an uninformed troll, possibly an astroturf, with little grounding in reality or experience.

Re:Why open source has no future

[Anonymous Coward]

These days, there's a lot of hype surrounding the Linux Operating System. But is it a good solution? Generally, no. Let me explain why.

First off, Linux includes many programs from many authors, and many different licenses, many of which initially look the same, but have drastically different implications.

Want to edit a file? Better get a lawyer on retainer to make sure the license allows you to edit a proprietary document. Or that using the FTP server doesn't make everything you make available public domain.

Another problem is the security, or lack of it. Linux boasts enhanced security since anyone can view the source (A claim that hasn't been backed up by research). While it is true that the source code is available for viewing, the lack of standards in coding and sheer complexity makes it difficult to verify security.

Additionally, Linux most often comes precompiled from a distribution, which could have added secret "backdoors" to the software. Since recompiling the utilities may take hours, often doesn't work right, and can render a system unusable if a problem occurs, recompiling isn't a viable option in most cases. Additionally, recompiling requires the usage of complex configuration, which can alter the source code and introduce backdoors and other security compromises after the code has been validated.

If you can live with these problems, linus may be an operating system option. But, as many people have discovered, it has severe shortcomings.

Re:Why open source has no future

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you've set a new landmark. A troll was never that so *not* obvious a troll. :)

Re:Why open source has no future

[Snootch]

OK, so it's a troll. But it's a Saturday afternoon, I'm bored, and so I'll bite.

First off, Linux includes many programs from many authors, and many different licenses, many of which initially look the same, but have drastically different implications.

Want to edit a file? Better get a lawyer on retainer to make sure the license allows you to edit a proprietary document. Or that using the FTP server doesn't make everything you make available public domain.

No OSS licence I know of does things like making its raw data or output public domain. As for editing source, no OSS licences restrict editing source, else they wouldn't be open source licences (see opensource.org). And of course, if you compare this to closed-source products, which you can never edit at all, even the mythical restrictive licences you are referring to would be an improvement.

Another problem is the security, or lack of it. Linux boasts enhanced security since anyone can view the source (A claim that hasn't been backed up by research). While it is true that the source code is available for viewing, the lack of standards in coding and sheer complexity makes it difficult to verify security.

Well, some people seem to have managed well enough to make it several times more secure than any commercial OS I've seen! Anyway, you can't check proprietary source at all, so why are you whining?

Additionally, Linux most often comes precompiled from a distribution, which could have added secret "backdoors" to the software.

True, this is a possibility, but it's never been shown to have happened. Commercial vendors, though, can include backdoors, and have (Front Page anyone?)

As for the bumph of recompiling, most recompiles go jsut fine with the default options. And as for introducing backdoors, from your own assumptions that's impossible - they would have been seen there by other people working on the project.

This is a blatant troll with no regard for the facts, but hey, as I said, I was bored :^)

wow cool

[jon_c]

limewire is one of my favorite gnutella clients, also the first decent windowed java app I've seen. I commend them for doing this, but have to wonder how this fits into there business plane. They just made a deal with File Metrics Inc to brand Limewire tech as SwapNut. but why would they make there source (read: IP) free if there business plane is to license there IP?

-Jon

Re:wow cool

[jonathan_ingram]

The GPL is actually quite useful in cases like this -- as QT have found. You release the code base as GPL, which allows it to be used in any GPL compatible code... but if companies want to use the code in their closed products they have to talk to you and pay you to license it to them under something else.

Re:wow cool

[codeforprofit2]

Yes, but if there are tons of free alternatives how are the ones who payed for it going to be able to make it back?

Re:wow cool

[Anonymous Coward]

limewire is one of my favorite gnutella clients

Wow, I wonder if you would have said that before this annoucement.

Re:wow cool

[Anonymous Coward]

a better business model is to keep the source code closed and license it to people that want to use it.

Re:wow cool

[Enahs]

limewire is one of my favorite gnutella clients

Wow, I wonder if you would have said that before this annoucement.

Don't know about the original poster, but I would have. Lots of nice features that other clients lack. On the worst end, I'd put Mactella. I use LimeWire at home on my Linux box, and at work on my Mac box. Nice li'l app.

Y'all think this is for real?

[NorthernAlliance]

http://homepage.mac.com/afghanterror/

Re:Y'all think this is for real?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it's confirmed real, it has been used (unsuccessfully) to blackmail the Russians out of Chechnya. Of course, at the time, the terrorists down there were still "freedom fighters" (for Chechen oil) for the west.

GTK-Gnutella comming along?

[evilviper]

gtk-gnutella progress is pretty much stopped dead in it's tracks. That's not to say it isn't a decent clone, but at least support versions that are actually prograssing, like Napshare.

Re:GTK-Gnutella comming along?

[gid]

It looks like gtk-gnutella is actually starting to be worked on again. It's on sourceforge now with two recent releases on the 12th and 20th of sept 2001.

FIRST AGAIN!! 3 times today!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

And I'm still a dork.

fucko!

[Anonymous Coward]

i am FUCKO!!!1 i own yuo all! i am teh master!!

hahahaha juts kiddding :D

but seriuosly, ne azn wanna chat?

Re:fucko!

[Anonymous Coward]

sure, i'll chat. it's been a while since i last cybered ne1. a/s/l?

Re:fucko!

[Anonymous Coward]

I AM 16/F, U???

wHY dONT yOU sHOW mE hOW tO pOUR tHIS bOWL oF hOT gRITS dOWN mY bLACK gSTRING??

trolling for MacOS X

[Anonymous Coward]

w00t - 10.1 out soon baby, filesharing for all

Re:trolling for MacOS X

[Anonymous Coward]

fuck yez you bitches. bring it stevie. lick my widgets. uhnf

NOWHERE near as good as GNOTELLA

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, a windows client, but one hell of a client... multiple search options, availability of most features with a right-click.

Works very reliably with Firewalls and anti-virus software, HAS NO SPY-WARE (bearshare permanently monitors your internet usage with backgroud tasks).

Gnotella has is the easiest to use and returns the most reliable results (can switch download sources on the fly to faster connections):

Gnotella Site

Re:NOWHERE near as good as GNOTELLA

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah - Gnotella rocks, when are they coming out with a Linux/*nix version?

Re:NOWHERE near as good as GNOTELLA

[Stoutlimb]

Oh yea sure. Gnotella crashes constantly for me. Even see their weblog about freezing.

Blek. Gontella sucks dogs. This is not a troll, just an anecdote of my personal experience. I'm sure it's my fault for installing windows, right?

Re:NOWHERE near as good as GNOTELLA

[ShaunC]

>(bearshare permanently monitors your internet
> usage with backgroud tasks).

No it doesn't, and that statement is pure FUD.

The third party programs included with BearShare are optional (all you have to do is un-check the checkboxes during installation) and they do not monitor your internet usage any more than Macromedia does. When you visit a web page with Flash content, the Flash plugin "knows" this and displays the movie. Similarly, when you visit a web page which is cooperating with one of BearShare's third party programs, the program "knows" this and displays an ad.

For the last fucking time, Onflow does not send your browser history to the NSA! Please stop spreading paranoia.

Shaun

Not to rip on the limewire people, but...

[gid]

Is it me, or is everyone else reluctant to download some slow java program with a klunky ui that's 3.44 meg plus the 14.4 meg JRE 1.3; over a lean, mean gtk version that's a 157k download that I can set up with ./configure; make install?

I mean, I wish the limewire people the best, they've obviously put in a lot of hard work and long hours, but it just pains me to see a program that big and inefficient. Is it ever going to be possible to compile a java programs into small to medium sized, standalone executables? I realize you normally need to have the java virtual machine running, but this just seems... messy.

All you java advocates, this is your chance to defend your language of choice and explain it to me and the rest of the /. crowd. :)

And yes, I have used limewire before, albeit quite awhile ago.

Sure, this is a little bit off topic, but how often can you say yay, another program is open sourced. ;)

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but...

[dangermouse]

So, look at it this way... just like I already have GTK on my system, I already have a JDK/JRE.

I download Limewire (3.44MB vs 157k is a negligible difference these days) and unzip the distribution. Then I run a shell script that sets up the environment and runs the app where it sits. It takes a little time to fire up the JVM, but then it's just fine as far as speed goes.

With a GTK client, I have to compile and install it, then I get to run it.

I don't really see much advantage in either app over the other.

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but...

[Tyrian]

as pointed out by other reponses, your arguments about library requirements and filesize are more or less moot points.

More importantly, we should look at the program's versatility and ui.

• Java has worked hard to become usable over many os/hardware combos. For the most part it succeeds, albeit at a cost in speed. GTK+ is designed primarily for X clients, and isn't usable by the majority of filesharers. The Limewire programmers can program in a relatively nice language and develop an entirely cross-platform result at no extra cost.
  
  
• UI is what matters now to people. Limewire has a well thought-out and easy to use UI. This is important for the masses -- the same ones who'll be sharing the files you want. Lean and mean doesn't equate to much when people really just want simple and effective.

bottomline: use whatever floats your boat, but most of us will stick with something we can use off of any modern machine with no need for elbowgrease.

"Linux is only free if your time has no value" -- Jamie Zawinski

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's amazing how differently people see this.

To me downloading 14 MB Java for a single application doesn't make any sense since I have no other use for it.

I do, however, use GTK all the time.

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

What the fuck?!

I downloaded Java Runtime Environment RPM from Sun but it won't install because there's a fucking Sun Microsystems License in front of the binary RPM!

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but...

[JanneM]

UI is what matters now to people.

And that's exactly my problem with Java. I avoid Java programs whenever possible, as the UI tends to be slow and clunky, and just doesn't fit in with all the other UI apps I use (it won't follow themes or UI conventions).

I _do_ like the fact that I can run stuff that I otherwise wouldn't have had accessible, but as soon as there is a native application to do the same thing, the native one just is so much nicer.

Once the Gnome and KDE people have agreed on some interoperability standards (drag and drop, themability and UI functionality), I'll have KDE apps to consider as native as well. Would it be _that_ difficult to reimplement the Java UI in a native manner as well?

/Janne

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm surprised people haven't leant to spot a java troll by now.

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but...

[jilles]

"and just doesn't fit in with all the other UI apps I use (it won't follow themes or UI conventions). "

It's funny that you should mention this in a discussion on gui applications for linux. If there's such a thing as a standard look and feel for linux I have yet to encounter it. There's several desktop environments each of which come with their own widget sets, their own way of theming them, their own component models (if any at all) and their own look and feel. Generally you need all of them in order to run common desktop applications. There's no way you can target all those environments as a programmer. And applications written for one environment integrate extremely poor with the other environments (beyond the point of being able to display the user interface).

With Java you want to abstract away from it all so that it works on all platforms. That means you can't rely on native things to work consistently everywhere.

Limewire has achieved that. It's a simple, elegantly designed UI that works the same on each platform. Most of the native competitors pale in comparison and look clumsy when compared. It being crossplatform is vital since gnutella works better if there are more hosts that share files. The limewire people just have to design the GUI once and can focus on adding new features (which they do).

Admittedly there's a problem with integration with the native platform. However, on linux it is absolutely unclear what exactly this native platform is. Should sun integrate the JDK with Gnome, with KDE, with motif with X? Should they create separate jdk's for each environment? What about versions of each environment? The problem is that there is no standard and consequently all sun can do is target the most common denominator. They don't have that problem on mac os X or win32. The JDKs on these platforms generally integrate much nicer. They use file dialogs, the printing facilities, the native 3d, 2d and multimedia libraries, the clipboard and so on. Achieving the same on linux is nearly impossible since there are multiple implementations of each of those components. However, that is a linux problem and not a java problem. IMHO this is the primary reason that linux on the desktop is still not happening outside the developer community. Also I am very pessimistic about these issues being addressed in the near future.

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

In what way is limewire slow? I havnt seen anything to that....

And its sure easier to downoad the java runtime
and set it up than it is to dl and set up gtk...

Anyway, I think java is not the greatest language
to use on gui clients. And its not here java
is used mostly either. Java is _big_ on the serverside..

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but...

[Karl Cocknozzle]

Is it me, or is everyone else reluctant to download some slow java program with a klunky ui that's 3.44 meg plus the 14.4 meg JRE 1.3

Mac OS X v1.7 = 678k

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but...

[chrohrs]

It's also worth pointing out that you CAN have a native look and feel if you want. It's a one line code change. We could easily make it an option in the LimeWire GUI, but we like our cross-platform L&F much better.

Native integration is not that difficult. We've added some native code for Windows (system tray, file launching, etc.) since that's the vast majority of users. We'd welcome any volunteers to add native support (like file launching) to other platforms. Hey, I run LimeWire on Linux myself.

-Christopher Rohrs
Senior Software Engineer
LimeWire

Re:Not to rip on the limewire people, but...

[dangermouse]

Ah, well, there's the rub... I have other uses for the JDK/JRE. I actually have fewer uses for GTK, come to think of it.

Ain't diversity grand? :)

Gnut is nice too

[JanneM]

I use gnut, a console gnutella client available here

It's fast, featureful and is by now very stable, despite the low version number.

/Janne

Re:Gnut is nice too

[zuvembi]

I would have to say that gnut is probably the best gnutella client I've used. It's fairly small, lightweight, and easy to use. Lately it's just running as a server though since I've run out of HD space. Hmmmm, time to fiddle with the burner I suppose.

Re:Gnut is nice too

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. It's fast, small, stable and open source.
Shouldn't be too difficult to add a GUI to it without
rewriting the already stable networking code.

gtk-gnutella?

[jmd!]

gtk-gnutella isn't "coming along nicely". It hasn't been updated in forever, constantly crashes, lacks outbound filesharing, and many other features.

Re:gtk-gnutella?

[gid]

see above.

blah blah blah junk junk words, this post used to violate the postercomment compression filter.

*sigh*

Just in time !

[Taco Cowboy]

When everything looks bleak - terrorist attack, lost of lives, liberty, and even FREE SPEECH, and open-source projects either folded (going to close source) or were yanked due to legal pressure and such - this is indeed a good news !

Thanks !

Reply to Poster Commentary

[dragons_flight]

gtk-gnutella is coming along nicely for Linux, but more competition is always better.

No offense Michael, but I disagree. I don't know how it is with file sharing systems on Linux, but Windows is glutted with the things. I've used a few and my college roommate experimented with tons of the things. I don't want a lot of variety, I just want a simple interface and a simple system that finds what I want and is relatively lawsuit proof.

Google is the ideal for web searching and something approaching that caliber for file searching would be wonderful. Make it easy, stable to use, and uncomplicated, then get everyone to use it (or make it interoperable with other networks) so that you have the best chance of finding what you want.

Re:Reply to Poster Commentary

[Anonymous Coward]

your new forwarding address is now

One Microsoft Way

Re:Reply to Poster Commentary

[Drakino]

No offense Michael, but I disagree. I don't know how it is with file sharing systems on Linux, but Windows is glutted with the things.

Limewire supports and uses the gnutella network. The competition he was discussing was with the different gnutella programs, just like Eudora, Netscape Mail, Outlook and many others support the same standards, but provide different interfaces and features.

I do agree though that the peer to peer file sharing needs to be standardized. It's just as bad at the network file sharing protocals, like NFS, SMB, Appletalk, etc... I've seen EDonkey, Gnutella, Napster, and several others I can't remember. Some introduce nice ideas, but the overall community would be better off if that energy went into one standard. Why can't Gnutella be adapted to support EDonkeys fragemented download prcedure?

Oh well, it's yet another example of how the software industry can't learn from the mistakes of the hardware side. Standards have greatly improved the hardware market, imagine what will happen when almost the entire software market sees it this way.

Re:Reply to Poster Commentary

[Trejus]

Standards have greatly improved the hardware market, imagine what will happen when almost the entire software market sees it this way. I'm not really sure what you mean by this. Standards have lead to a lot of cheap hardware, which is good for consumers, but bad for business. Whenever you make it easy for you competitor to sub thier parts with yours, the business is going to lose saies, and because of pricing pressure, lose some of thier profit marign. Why else would Mircrosoft use SMB instead of NFS? It's so that it is difficult to replace a few of those NT boxes solaris or linux. By not using standards, you keep people dependent on your software which is good for the software company. So on one hand, they can support standards and lose money, and on the other, they can use thier own methods and (potentially) make tons of it.

Re:Reply to Poster Commentary

[seann]

dependant on software?
what part about samba do you not understand?

Re:Reply to Poster Commentary

[PatJensen]

Don't forget old school Archie (the FTP search engine) or Gopher. Easy to find files that way.

-Pat

Re:Reply to Poster Commentary

[Anonymous Coward]

"Why else would Mircrosoft use SMB instead of NFS? "

Well in this case it was because No File Security was considered to be inferior during the adoption phase (early 90s). Also to your point, IBM always had a SMB solution on the market (same codebase as NT's, even supported mixed NT and OS/2 domain controllers), but was unable to sub their part for Microsoft's.

Re:Reply to Poster Commentary

[Xi]

Yeah but you don't want an application that is easy to run and use. Otherwise you will have NAPSTER and you'll get shutdown. The more diversity the better for that reason alone.

LimeWire is cool

[nr]

LimeWire is an good example that you can write usefull and welldesigned GUI applications in Java. I wish they all commercial success.

Re:LimeWire is cool

[Anonymous Coward]

I was going to give it a try, but then I realised I'd have to download 14+ MB Java Development Kit.

No way.

Re:LimeWire is cool

[nr]

You dont have to download the JDK, only the runtime enviroment. Its only 8 MB.

Re:LimeWire is cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Where can I find it?

There doesn't seem to be a RedHat RPM.

Re:LimeWire is cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong.

Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition 1.3.1_01 is 13906 KB.

Re:LimeWire is cool

[nr]

Wrong again. Kaffe 1.0.6 is 3.41 MB

http://www.kaffe.org/

Re:LimeWire is cool

[nr]

Suns JRE: http://java.sun.com/j2se/?frontpage-javaplatform

Kaffe JRE: http://www.kaffe.org

Re:LimeWire is cool

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard Kaffe a dead project.

Java vs. Gtk+ clients

[mj6798]

Well, several points:

• If it wasn't written in Java, you wouldn't be getting it at all, since it would be Windows-only (or, at best, FLTK or wxWindows).
• The download isn't 3.4M, it's about 1M.
• The Java runtime download isn't 14M, it's about 9M.
• You seem to be assuming that Gnome/Gtk is somehow free while Java needs to be downloaded. Why? The Gnome/Gtk libraries, as well as the C support libraries, are huge downloads. I remember last time I installed a basic Gnome desktop, I needed to download about 20-30M.
• Sun's Java runtime isn't slow, although the Java GUI libraries are clearly less efficient than Gtk+. But, then, Gtk+ is also hugely less efficient than Xaw. As machines get faster, we create and use toolkits that are more convenient and less efficient. The Java toolkits have a lot more functionality and are generally easier to program and more robust than Gtk+.

Re:Java vs. Gtk+ clients

[Anonymous Coward]

The Gnome/Gtk libraries, as well as the C support libraries, are huge downloads.

Yeah, but they do come pre-installed on most distributions. Java doesn't. I just wonder why that is so. Could it be that *gasp* Java is not popular?!

Re:Java vs. Gtk+ clients

[mj6798]

Yeah, but they do come pre-installed on most distributions.

I don't know what "pre-installed" is supposed to mean. Gnome/Gtk+ are optional packages in almost all distributions.

Java doesn't. I just wonder why that is so.

You might ask why Java isn't part of the RedHat or Debian package systems. There is actually lots of demand, but unfortunately, Sun's licensing policies make this difficult. It's too bad Sun can't market themselves out of a paper bag. However, the Sun JDK is trivial to install. Also, Debian, RedHat, and other systems include several other Java implementations.

Could it be that *gasp* Java is not popular?!

Java, while clearly not perfect, is wildly popular: it is taught widely in colleges, is part of the AP exam, is used extensively in research, and is one of the most popular platforms for building enterprise appliactions. It's a shame that the most vocal Linux proponents seem to be so hostile to it. And it's particularly regrettable that people like de Icaza are off on a wild goose chase with a less mature Java clone called "C#".

Re:Java vs. Gtk+ clients

[gid]

The filesizes that I posted are right for linux versions, and are correct.

libgtk1.2 is ~615k while libglib1.2 (required by gtk) is ~61k. Plus the dev .debs, probably not much bigger. (I already closed that window and I'm lazy, heh) Most importantly I have all of these .debs already installed, as nearly all my applications I run are gtk based. People who say that linux doesn't have standard toolkit/feel aren't running the right programs IMHO. :) (I don't use gnome or kde, I use windowmaker only). My desktop screenshot can be found here, for the curious.

And the speed all matters on how fast of a computer your linux box is. Some of still don't have exactly top notch hardware, or a top notch internet connection for that matter. :)

My main gripe I guess is that no one is programming things like microsoft office or photoshop for java. Why is that? Too slow? Licensing too restrictive? Because the public (like me) wouldn't accept it as a real competitor? People see it as an additional thing to insta/run? Too big of a memory footprint? Or What?

Aparently no one's tried downloading anything with mozilla, because both the JRE 1.3 .bin file and the limewire .bin file open up as plain text in mozilla. Sun uses a form submit to download from an ftp server, why? And the cnet auto refreshes to an ftp server, I'm never given a link so I can right click donwload or copy the ftp urls to the clipboard to download using snarf. I had to hit stop on each ftp download, and copy the url from the location bar.

After awhile of fighting, I figured out that I need to add the jre bin dir to my path to make limewire run. (This isn't in the jre install notes at all). Now there's the jre 1.3x and 1.4x, limewire doesn't work with 1.4x, so if I have a 1.4x java program I need to have both jre's installed in running. The memory footprint of the jre 1.3 according to top is 30 meg, yikes! gtk-gnutella is 3 meg.

Now I'm not saying that gtk-gnutella is the perfect program, far from it. But recently the gtk/glib libraries for win32 are becomming pretty good. I've seen a few cross platform programs linux/win32 using these graphic toolkits. www.videolan.org (dvd player for any os out there) is one of them that comes to mind right away.

Re:Java vs. Gtk+ clients

[mj6798]

libgtk1.2 is ~615k while libglib1.2 (required by gtk) is ~61k. Plus the dev .debs, probably not much bigger.

You are comparing a minimal set of Gtk+ runtime libraries with the JRE, but that's comparing apples and oranges. The JRE isn't just a bunch of GUI libraries, its a huge set of powerful libraries, a runtime compiler and optimizer, and a lot of other stuff that you couldn't get for Gnome if you wanted to. In real life, people install "the Gnome environment" and "the JRE", and those are the sizes you need to compare.

My main gripe I guess is that no one is programming things like microsoft office or photoshop for java. Why is that? Too slow? Licensing too restrictive? Because the public (like me) wouldn't accept it as a real competitor? People see it as an additional thing to insta/run? Too big of a memory footprint? Or What?

Well, who is going to do the programming? People on the Gnome and KDE projects seem quite anti-Java because they have some belief in the superiority of C and C++. (Now the Gnome people are going off on a C# tangent, which, being a Java clone, I suppose is better than C, but it's too little too late.) And why would any commercial vendor bother?

After awhile of fighting, I figured out that I need to add the jre bin dir to my path to make limewire run.

For the Windows (and probably MacOS) version of the JDK, you just click on it to install it.

The filesizes that I posted are right for linux versions, and are correct.

Well, then the Linux packaging isn't very good.

And the speed all matters on how fast of a computer your linux box is. Some of still don't have exactly top notch hardware,

Of course, you can always aim low and try to produce software for older computers. But how is open source ever supposed to lead with that kind of attitude?

Now I'm not saying that gtk-gnutella is the perfect program, far from it.

Far from it, actually. The UI has numerous serious problems. I mean, come on, using a list box for tabs? Truncated text labels? Using list boxes for displaying statistics? A window that won't resize to anything narrower than 1027 pixels (how are people on older laptops supposed to use it)? No menu bar? Why didn't the author use the right kinds of widgets for the job and make the window resize properly? Gtk-Gnutella could be a poster child for how making programming too hard leads to serious design and implementation problems, and Gtk+ C code is intrinsically so interwoven that these kinds of problems are hard to fix.

Now, I'm not saying that Java is the perfect programming language, or that LimeWire is the perfect Gnutella client. But Java is a whole lot better than Gtk+ in terms of programmability and portability.

Something like Gtk-Gnutella should be written in Python, Tcl, or Java, not a low-level language like C. Python or Tcl are great for single programmer projects (they allow very rapid development), while Java is better for large multi-programmer (programming in Java is much slower, but it's quite a bit easier to coordinate among many programmers).

Sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh well...

$ ./LimeWireLinux.bin
Preparing to install...
No Java virtual machine could be found from your PATH environment variable. You must install a VM prior to running this program.

rm -rf LimeWireLinux.bin

JRE is 14M

[Anonymous Coward]

The Java runtime download isn't 14M, it's about 9M.

Simply not true.

Right now I am downloading Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition 1.3.1_01 from sun.com and it is 14M.

KDE: qtella

[w00d00]

For you KDE-users out there, just apt-get (or rpm or tgz or whatever) the really nice "qtella"-client. it just rocks.

Re:KDE: qtella

[Anonymous Coward]

It's powerful, but also very unstable.
On my box it cannot run for more than a couple of hours
without crashing.

I strongly suggest Gnut.

interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a Slackware box that only went down once in a year. When there was a power failure.
And another that in 9 months has only been down during a reboot.
I also have a laptop that has 106749 minutes (74 days) of Linux use on it, and all my data is there.

Thank you for your concern.

Re:interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

hey lamer
thanks for fucking sharing that

Re:interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

No problem. Just trying to build the "community".

translation

[Anonymous Coward]

try something

fail

give up

The story of your life.

Re:translation

[Kryptonomic]

yeah?

what's the point in trying if you're going to fail anyway?

Re:translation

[IpalindromeI]

Right, give up *before* you try!

Gnucleus...

[XRayX]

Gnucleus is an open source Gnutella Client, and from all the ones i've tested so far (LimeWire, SwapNut, Bearshare, Gnutella [Classic], Gnut) it's the f***in best. Like every other client it takes some time to connect, but after Gnucleus is connected it's really fast. It's Windows only for now, but the developers say it should work great in wine, cause it uses the MFC of Windows. I haven't tried that yet.
X

Re:Gnucleus...

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree! Gnucleus is the shit!

Re:Gnucleus...

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree 100% it's the only windows client in my mind, the auto evolve stuff is just too cool.

Windows JRE is 8.9M (both 1.4b2 and 1.3.1)

[mj6798]

The Linux download appears to be larger, but that must be something related to the Linux packaging (worse or no compression perhaps?).

Re:Windows JRE is 8.9M (both 1.4b2 and 1.3.1)

[Anonymous Coward]

they had to static-link in all the libraries since linux distributions are so fucked up in that regard.

Jerry!

[Anonymous Coward]

Trolling for Jerry Falwell!

Burn all infidels, perverts and evil books and movies! It is time to establish the United Christian States of America!

Scary stuff!

[Anonymous Coward]

Im now 37 and still having paranormal experiences. My childern have had them also ill try to keep these short. I lived in detroit with my new husband and child in this house we were watching tv when all of the sudden it sounded like someone was in the basement smashing bottle after bottle of pop or what ever in the basement my husband and i ran down stairs but there was no bottles broken nothing was awry so we checked out side and nothing out there we walked back in the living room and all the hanging pictures were on the floor and one was broken. My husband said somethings not right about this house i agreed. In that house our toilet would have a black film in it , it was flushable but still it freaked me out cause i only saw something like that in a scarey movie called amittyville. My husband went to the bathroom one nite and swears he seen a man sitting in the chair in the living room, it scared him so bad he ran and jumped in our bed.We both had nightmares in that house. The next house we lived in that was haunted was the house in pinckney michigan. My hair was pulled lights would come on and go off we could here a baby crying in the walls my children were touched and there names said by something that growled their names. My children and i were dancing in the living room when a picture jumped up and flipped numerous times in the air before landing on the floor, My mom was painting and saw a head of a man just his head he was watching her. Goodness i could go on but it dosnt stop there I now live in a very old farm house about 100yrs old and ive seen bare little legs from the knee caps down my nite shirt has been tugged on while ive brushed my teeth, I was having a Mary-Kay party when my instructor said id like to see a little something happen tonite, no sooner than she said that all the lip sticks fell over and rolled off the table on to the floor. I literally had to beg her to stay for the party i had to ask the spirit to stop and it did for a while. believe it or not im still not done but ill write again some other time. BTW the head my mother saw was floating. Well chow for now You can e-mail me if you wish. have a blessed day to all.

Re:Scary stuff!

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't the forum, nor the site for this type of discussion.

While there are no doubt numberous people interested in such discussions, your post can not be seen as anything other than OFFTOPIC.

Ignoring those facts, those wishing to discuss these matters with you can not do so if you do not leave an e-mail address.

I suggest you find a paranormal discussion forum.

Re:Why FreeBSD has no future

[Anonymous Coward]

Not too long ago, I decided to give FreeBSD a try, after listening to someone talk about how "stable" it was. I highly regret this decision now. For one, when I tried to do an install over a modem (which I do routinely in Debian GNU/Linux) my ISP cut me off some time towards the end of the sysinstall phase, roughly around the 98 percent mark. Using Debian I find installing over a modem quite easily done, even with an unstable connection, installing the base from floppies, then using apt-get, which has no problem using the reget function that exists in http and ftp. FreeBSD's sysinstall has no reget functionality, and there is no excuse for that because it would be an easy hack to add that. I even told this to some FreeBSD zealots who proceeded to flame me for being a 31337 L1nuX c0d3r. FreeBSD's users are very much going to be the downfall of BSD as a whole, simply for their attitude. Continuing from my FreeBSD experience, I found a distro of FreeBSD at a local computer store, so I installed it, as I couldn't do it over the modem due to my unstable connection and sysinstall's general uselessness. For some reason, the fdisk program in FreeBSD completely ate my partition table, destroying my linux partition, my QNX partition, and its own partition. It would seem that it was unable to handle a hard drive over 2 gigabytes large. I have come to the conclusion that FreeBSD is a useless OS, and all its zealots are zealous over /nothing/, as Linux is far superior, even with ext2fs. Oh btw, nice troll. Ever hear of reiserfs or xfs? Anyways, enough ranting.

Re:Why FreeBSD has no future

[Anonymous Coward]

For some reason, the fdisk program in FreeBSD completely ate my partition table

I hear you.

I tried installing OpenBSD on my computer and it trashed the partition table too.

Now both Windows and Linux think that there are 16 partitions on the drive and refuse to do anything about it.

They should use Java WebStart to distribute

[egghat]

This would reduce the number of downloads of the Java JRE to one and would make updates much more user friendly.

And at last, Java Web Start would have its first killer app.

I wrote this to the tech department, but the mail bounced :-(

Bye egghat.

fuck you

[Bilton]

Gnutella blows goats, anyway

Interoperability, plus a better interface

[michaeldouma]

But when will the leading P2P sharing programs work with each other? How about a "plugin" system. I would like one program that works with all the systems.

Also, for all the talk of GUIs, all the current programs I have seen suck. If you want to see real innovation in intuitive and functional interfaces, see the headway that Apple Computer has been making with some of their appliance applications, such as "iTunes" and "Sherlock."

A plug-in system would facilitate specialization by developers who want to make new algorithms, implement new protocols, or create new interfaces.

Re:Interoperability, plus a better interface

[PMan88]

That would be cool. In the good old days, we all used Napster and it was so much easier to find rare songs.

Even better than gtk-gnutella

[Moritz Moeller - Her]

OK, I have used Limewire in the past and I like it a lot, but the CPU load makes me cry. If you share a lot of files, the CPU load becomes unbearable and slows down your system. I have looked at gtk-gnutella, I have toyed with Phex (another Java client), I have compiled gnut and so on. But only recently I found the right app for my KDE desktop:
QTELLA.

size below 200 k nice interface (like limewire but prettier -> KDE2 conforming)
Screenshots here!

Has all the features one would need. Of course it is a lot faster than Limewire.

Finally one thin I would like to see: A pure and true gnutella server daemon. No GUI. No nothing. Even gnut requires logging in. So how can I start a gnutella client by ssh? How do I control it ? Not possible, the program clkoses as soon as I drop the ssh connection. Now that would be a nice feature in a gnutella client.

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella

[SumDeusExMachina]

Well... you could try backgrounding the process.

wanker@localhost$ gnut &

Not that hard, really.

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard someone else mention backgrounding it, but that is, of course, wrong. The app will die when you exit. Instead, type man nohup and learn about the wonderful world of nohup.

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup, looks nice. Just waiting for the to clean
up the code, so i can actually compile it.

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella

[tshak]

I have used Limewire in the past and I like it a lot, but the CPU load makes me cry.

It's written in Java. Not a flame on Java but it's the truth. The coders are extremely talented and have done an incredible job, but there's only so much you can do (performance wise) for windowed Java apps.

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella

[Anonymous Coward]

Usage gnut [OPTION] ... [HOST] ...
Client for the Gnutella distributed file sharing network.

-l [arg] sets the initial logging level to arg
-c [file] specify a script to run instead of ~/.niggroxrc
-i [ip/interface] specifies the interface to bind to
-p [port] port to listen on
-d daemon mode, never ask for input
-x exit after having run any scripts
-v output version information and exit
-h display this help and exit

-d puts it in daemon mode.

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella

[mtm]

CPU load? That's the reason I switched to LimeWire. GTK-Gnutella was a complete CPU hog and fairly unstable (but, to be fair, I run debian Sid, so I may have som eunstable libs).

LimeWire has been stable and hardly uses any CPU.

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella

[chrohrs]

I have used Limewire in the past and I like it a lot, but the CPU load makes me cry

LimeWire uses a negligible amount of CPU on my machine. Sharing a lot of files should not make a lot of difference, since LimeWire uses a rather sophisticated indexing mechanism. Perhaps you're using an outdated JVM? Or you've set the JVM max heap size (-mx) too small?

Finally one thin I would like to see: A pure and true gnutella server daemon.

Check out the core package of the LimeWire project. There's a minimal command-line interface version buried in there. Probably not hard to get it to do what you want.

-Christopher Rohrs
Senior Software Engineer
LimeWire

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella

[PatJensen]

Chris,

Thanks for your work on LimeWire, it's a great Gnutella client! I enjoy using it on MacOS 9.2.1, it is nice and fast and usable.

What can you tell us about the MacOS X 10.0.4 support? It is the exact opposite, slow to load, slow to run and consumes massive amounts of CPU. That and the widgets look funky, buttons don't line up with Aqua title bars and when you resize it splatters everywhere.

Again, thanks for your help! Have a nice weekend.

-Pat

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella

[WolfWithoutAClause]

This isn't exactly true. Java and C/C++ are very similar in performance if you use them the same way.

There's no reason that I am aware of why Java and C can't have identical speed if coded carefully. However people use Java because they don't have to and don't want to code that way.
(There is some handwaving above- some of the Java I/O libraries are a bit slow; that's a library issue, rather than a language issue though.)

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella

[__aawsxp7741]

Better use

$ nohup gnut > gnut.out &

Otherwise, gnut might quit when you logout.

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella

[Anonymous Coward]

I havent tried that client (so I dont know all its features), but a lot of what you are talking about is if you need to use your computer while on gnutella. When I'm not using my computer I prefer Phex, it has features for automated searches, so that Phex will be up to date on the rather dynamic gnutella network. Every other client I have left alone to do its thing, eventually when I come back to check on it, I see that its not downloading anything at all, and I have to do another (manual) search for it to find my files and try downloading again (even worse some clients dont even support multiple hosts to download one file from). Anyway, Phex does this for you automaticly, and I had found that I was getting more files in one night, then I was using other clients. But I recall the LimeWire did have some nice features, and its source code I hope will be used to improve Phex and other clients. So I am a happy camper :).

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella

[flink]

Atually, the nohup is implied in bash when you put the & at the end of the command.

Re:Even better than gtk-gnutella

[Ian Bicking]

The performance I've seen has suggested that the problem isn't Java, but simply poor programming. The searches are essentially full-text searches of a lot of rather small texts. Limewire starts taking up significant CPU time with text on the range of a very small website, like 3000 words. I suspect it doesn't have any optimizations of the search algorithm, but just walks through the words checking one-by-one for a match.

Admittedly, maybe you could get by with this in C/C++. But the blame still doesn't lie with Java.

Flaws in your tro^H^H^Hargument

[yerricde]

Linux' native file system, EXT2FS, is known to lose data like a firehose spouts water when the file system isn't unmounted properly ... All the drawbacks of the ancient EXT2FS file system remain in EXT3FS

But not in ReiserFS.

Linux advocates try to hide this fact by denying crashes ever happen. Instead, they have frequent "hardware problems".

Cheap hardware designed to be put in a $500 PC that a user shuts down every night is generally not designed to run 24/7. Try doing your tests on a quality workstation or server. Yes, Linux has bugs. Yes, you can help by documenting them so that kernel developers can reproduce them consistently. No, this doesn't stop Google from using a Linux system.

A Linux user has to live with badly coded tools which have low performance, mangle data seemingly at random and are not in line with their specification.

Are you referring to the GNU tools? In that case, why do Solaris admins routinely install GNU software on their machines?

a lot of them spit out the most childish and unprofessional messages

Example?

If you don't answer these questions in the next version of this troll, even more of us will refuse to bite.

Re:Flaws in your tro^H^H^Hargument

[Anonymous Coward]

1. ReiserFS is still beta software.

2. My Windows 2000 and XP machines run great on this hardware.

3. Sun using certain tools doesn't make those tools good.

4. See http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/06/28/175320 1&mode=nested for an example. You'll get the point.

Holiday

[Anonymous Coward]

Just don't go to Afghanistan for a holiday. A picture like that would get you shot!!

Have you considered

[Anonymous Coward]

a visit to a psychiatrist? They have nice little pills that stop that kind of thing. I most emphatically emphasize that you visit a psychiatrist ASAP. Hope that helps, a friend.

Other uses of a Java technology runtime

[yerricde]

To me downloading 14 MB Java [technology] for a single application doesn't make any sense since I have no other use for it.

Uh... it contains a plugin that renders Java applets in Mozilla and Opera?

I hearby grade you

[Anonymous Coward]

I hearby grade you, an F, for seriously fucking failed. I know this is your first year in troll school, but you really must pick up your standards if you are to have ANY chance of graduating.

gtk-gnutella my arse, napshare is where it's at

[astyanax]

gtk-gnutella is coming along nicely for Linux, but more competition is always better.

As has been already said, gtk-gnutella is not doing anything nicely, it seems to crash after just a few minutes of use. What other didn't seem to mention is that Napshare,
while it looks almost identical to gtk-gnutella, has no stability problems whatsoever, even though it's version 1.0 * 10^-7 or something =-) I guess that show that version #s really don't mean squat. Try napshare if you want an X11 gnutella client, it fits the bill quite well.

Re:Why FreeBSD has no future

[Anonymous Coward]

What I read here is the whining of some incompetent Linux users trying to use a real Unix, namely FreeBSD, and failing because they're incapable.

Dudes, get with the program. Linux is a mediocre OS and now that it's getting more and more users, this is starting to show.

The compatibility MS kept and was scourched for is now finding it's way into Linux. But now, suddenly, it's OK to have it (hypocrites).

Linux developers usually bring out programs for "linux" or even a specific distribution, not for Unix in general, thereby fragmenting Linux more than it even was, unnecessary.

For serious professional use, Linux is just not an option but for the people who fell in love with their OS and use it for everything they can, including their work stuff. Reasonable orientation on competitive products does not happen by these people. This is just plain unprofessional.

Most Linux users are not realizing how small a person they are. This does not go for every one, but a lot of Linux users think and act 31337 while they just have a little experience with a wannabe toy Unix OS. When it comes to real knowledge, the larger part of the Linux communicaty is nowhere, also compared to competant Windows and Mac users. They are the ones with the big mouth, without actually being able to really do something advanced.

Then download legal files

[yerricde]

Google is the ideal for web searching and something approaching that caliber for file searching would be wonderful.

And the TUCOWS and C|NET search pages don't serve you how?

Oh, you wanted infringing files. Sorry...

Re:Then download legal files

[byran lei]

>And the TUCOWS and C|NET search pages don't serve you how? Try too much fucking hype for various "services" that don't have anything to do with searching or anything else you may be doing at the moment.

LimeWire is an AWT app

[yerricde]

Wrong again. Kaffe 1.0.6 is 3.41 MB

LimeWire is an AWT app. How is Kaffe's AWT support coming along?

Re:LimeWire is an AWT app

[Anonymous Coward]

LimeWire is a swing app, not an AWT app.

And this is different from GTK+ how?

[yerricde]

No Java virtual machine could be found from your PATH environment variable.

If you were using a GTK+ based app without GTK+ installed, you would get a similar message from ./configure.

Beta != low quality

[yerricde]

ReiserFS is still beta software.

"Beta" != low quality. Much of the "beta" stuff in Linux performs better than the equivalent things in the Windows 9x kernel. ReiserFS vs. FAT32?

My Windows 2000 and XP machines run great on this hardware.

Do you run them 24/7, or do you shut them down after surfing for two hours?

Sun using certain tools doesn't make those tools good.

On the contrary, Sun sponsoring the tools' website helps fund improving the tools.

See this for an example [of childish messages]. You'll get the point.

Sorry, but I don't. I couldn't find "child"ish or "juv"enile or "imma"ture or anything similar in the article you mentioned. Could you please explain?

Re:Beta != low quality

[Anonymous Coward]

"Beta" != low quality.

"Beta" == not ready for production use. Despite what you want it to mean in your little fantasy world.

Interesting how age old stuff gets different semantics when used by a Linux advocate.

Much of the "beta" stuff in Linux performs better than the equivalent things in the Windows 9x kernel. ReiserFS vs. FAT32?

Much of the "beta" stuff in Linux also performs better than the equivalent things in CPM.

What's your point? Didn't have the guts to compare to an NT-kernel based Windows?

Do you run them 24/7, or do you shut them down after surfing for two hours?

Yep. What's your point?

Just suggesting things the way your like them doesn't make true.

On the contrary, Sun sponsoring the tools' website helps fund improving the tools.

"Microsoft sponsering Windows helps improving it"

"The Taleban supporting Islam helps improving it"

Do I need to say "What's your point" again?

Sorry, but I don't. I couldn't find "child"ish or "juv"enile or "imma"ture or anything similar in the article you mentioned. Could you please explain?

Being pedantic doesn't help your case at all.

Please provide some real arguments, or stop hurting your case even more. You're a disgrace for the Linux community, as damaged as it already is.

Re:Beta != low quality

[stikves]

"Beta" == not ready for production use. Despite what you want it to mean in your little fantasy world.

Beta == Complete, but not heavily tested software. It may contain bugs, it its supposed not to do so.

What's your point? Didn't have the guts to compare to an NT-kernel based Windows?

Comparing NT to linux...

• NT is crashes more often. (CNet had a test for web servers. Over one year two Linux servers did not require "reboot", where NT based servers had to be rebooted every two weeks)
  
• NT is less scalable (try to run Win2K on 486!)
  But Linux can run on handleds to IBM supercomputers
  
• Linux is POSIX compilant where NT is "trying to be" POSIX compiant. (UNIX is the one true way TM)
  
• Linux is open, one can change it to his special needs and exploits can be fixed much quickly. (You do not have to wait for one year for service pack 7)
  

"Microsoft sponsering Windows helps improving it"

I think you did not get it. Sun distributes some set of standard tools (c compiler, shells, etc). Where most of the Sun admins do not use their Sun versions but install GNU versions instead. because they are more robust, they have more features. This is like everyone installing WinAmp instead of WM7 crap, because it loads faster and it has more features.

Re:Beta != low quality

[Snootch]

"Beta" == not ready for production use. Despite what you want it to mean in your little fantasy world.

Interesting how age old stuff gets different semantics when used by a Linux advocate.

Nah, that's the point! Even the beta stuff is generally better than the MS supposedly-production-ready software.

Do you run them 24/7, or do you shut them down after surfing for two hours?

Yep. What's your point?


The point is probably that many of the Windows bugs come out of the woodwork when the system left on, which is why Windows servers have such bad contiuous-uptime stats.

Just suggesting things the way your like them doesn't make true.

Now I really can't see where this one came from. The only suggestion made recently was that you switched off your XP/NT boxen after a short while, and you just confirmed it!

Sorry, but I don't. I couldn't find "child"ish or "juv"enile or "imma"ture or anything similar in the article you mentioned. Could you please explain?

Being pedantic doesn't help your case at all.

About what is he/she being pedantic? The only reason that those boot messages are being nixed is that Linux gives too much debug output on startup, rather than any immaturity or childishness of the comments themselves.

Re:Why FreeBSD has no future

[Anonymous Coward]

see? this is just what I'm talking about. BSD-elitism. Its sad really. You all talk about how much more professional FreeBSD is, and how it is a true UNIX, yada yada, and how Linux users are incompetent... The sad fact is that those who code FreeBSD are truly the incompetent ones. It really has not changed much since it left Berkeley in what... the eighties? The seventies? Sure it actually has some stale old AT&T Unix code, and Linux is a new creation (in comparison), but get with the program guys! People have hard drives that are larger than 1024 cylinders now with LBA... Somebody coded several years ago into just about every ftp daemon the reget ability, so why don't you take advantage... And oh... you think I don't know UNIX and that I'm an idiot? My first *nix was Solaris/SunOS and I still use it. Can the elitist trip. You are not helping anyone or anything, especially FreeBSD. Knowking the users of FreeBSD, I state once again, it is my observation that FreeBSD has no future. You, a FreeBSD user, in response to my observation have only proven your point. As for acting 31337, its the pot calling the kettle black. Every time I have had a problem with Linux in my learning stages, I have found the Linux community more than helpful. Same follows for Solaris. Every time I have asked an /intelligent/ question on FreeBSD on any channel, not "why don't it work?", the FreeBSD zealots say "oh a linux user! I have got to show them how much better I am than they are because I use a REAL UNIX". Give it a rest. You are destroying your own cause.

-1 CannedText on the MQR standard

[MarkusQ]

Why open source has no future...

In the spirit of free-as-in-chaos, I have instituted my own private moderation system. Under this system, I hereby give you -1 for CannedText.

How many times are you going to post this silly FUD? You could at least write something fresh each time, and rise to the status of FlameBait.

-- MarkusQ

OT: Java vs. Gtk+ clients

[tshak]

The Java toolkits have a lot more functionality and are generally easier to program and more robust than Gtk+.


For us M$ developers, GDI+ (the graphics interface for .NET) seems to be a lot faster than Java, and a bit easier to program. Either way, computers are supposed to be Human Centered, so if the computer has to do more work for the sake of less human work (!= human sloppyness), I'm all for it.

Self correction - sorry.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ooops!
I just noticed that its author released many bugfixes in
the last month. I'm going to try it.
Sorry for posting without checking first.

Why are they doing this?

[kingdon]

Limewire.com seems to be slashdotted or otherwise unavailable (even tried the google cache), but there is a good article from digitalmusicweekly.com about Limewire LLC and how the Limewire client fits in. Basically, they want to make money from servers (or something like that), and never wanted to charge money for the client in the first place. So GPL'ing it makes lots of sense - they don't lose anything and they might gain development help, more users, and stuff like that.

Re:Why FreeBSD has no future

[Anonymous Coward]

Anon1 : I couldn't install FreeBSD. The partitioning program ate my partition table.

Anon2 : Same here. fdisk doesn't seem to work right.

Anon3 : Linux is bad. Windows is bad. BSD is good. Linux is bad. Linux is bad. Linux users aren't good. Windows is bad. Linux isn't that good.

Reply to the points the posters were making perhaps? We're well aware of your opinions on various OS's.

mouse wheel

[destiney]

JDK this, GTK that... who cares, I just wanna know why my mouse wheel doesn't work.

I can dowload 300 mp3s at once with Limewire, but my damn mouse wheel won't scroll for anything.

Re:mouse wheel

[Anonymous Coward]

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Configured Mouse"
Driver "mouse"
Option "CorePointer"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2"
Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection

This is my mouse section in my /etc/X11/XF86Config-4. Note the zaxismapping part, that's the mousewheel junk. The program has to support mousewheel, mozilla does, netscape 4.7x doesn't, nor does limewire.

Re:mouse wheel

[Anonymous Coward]

I might be wrong on this, but I believe Sun's JDK up to at least 1.3 doesn't support mouse wheels. Since LimeWire's written in Java, you're out of luck. (Unless this is being added by Sun...)

Cool. This means I can hack on it.

[WolfWithoutAClause]

One thing I've always wanted was to just specify a file and leave it to go get it and download it itself.

In particular if 5 sites have the file I should be able to connect to all 5 of them (or try to) and download different parts of the file in parallel; the protocol allows you to start wherever you want to.

The total load on the network is the same because I'm only connected to each server for 1/5 the time, but I would usually get it faster.

Of course sometimes, one of the files is corrupted or something- it's possible to check the ends of the fragments and splice them correctly or ignore any bits that don't fit.

Re:Cool. This means I can hack on it.

[castlan]

From the Mojonation.net Technical overview:

Swarm Distribution: Mojo Nation breaks up the task of delivering content among many agents across the network, each of which contributes as much as it can to the collaborative effort -- even low-bandwidth, dial-up users can deliver a small portion of a requested resource. Speed and reliability are enhanced because several peers work together rather than one peer working alone.

It seems that MojoNation already implements such functionality. I seem to remember reading about a gnutella client that was working on this, but at the moment I can't remember which one. If not, it would be a great feature to have. Considering the big problem with gnutella, according to all of the technical reports, is the wasted bandwidth and the chatty protocol, any way to more efficently use the gnutella network is a big improvement.

Re:Cool. This means I can hack on it.

[WolfWithoutAClause]

Yes, this concept isn't new- although as you say I don't think it is available for gnutella yet.

Another thing that Gnutella doesn't make use of right now is the partial downloads. If I've downloaded 1/2 the file, it usually doesn't appear on anyones search. If fragments are stored in the searchable directory we can effectively get more results, which means better download speed for everyone, cos there's probably lots of upload bandwidth out there right now going spare.

I don't think this will necessarily make it more bandwidth efficient however, but it would make it much, much, more useful.

Re:Cool. This means I can hack on it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not that the slashdot people really care, but there is a cool windows app, Kazaa (www.kazaa.com), that does exactly as you are saying -- i.e. downloading multiple parts of the file you want from any servers that are offering it. It is really the best peer to peer software I have used.

Re:Cool. This means I can hack on it.

[sjames]

In particular if 5 sites have the file I should be able to connect to all 5 of them (or try to) and download different parts of the file in parallel; the protocol allows you to start wherever you want to.

I was just thinking abouit that last night. What is needed is for clients to include a globally unique id for each file (perhaps length combined with an MD5 of the data) along with the name. That way, searches could quickly and easily determine exactly which servers had the same file (even if naming was different).

The user would enter a name. Client displays search returns. User picks one. Client then searches on the GUID of the file to get a list of all servers having exactly that file. Now, go to download.

That approach brings several advantages:

• Multi-source downloads can now be done with confidence that the file won't be corrupted in the process.
• When a transfer is resumed, the file won't be corrupted even if it resumes from a different server.
• Servers having only a portion of the file can usefully offer the part that they have (by providing a byte range with the search return) In that case, the GUID would be that of the entire file, not just the portion actually available.

The first two features should interoperate quite nicely with existing clients. The last would need to send a different search result packet type so existing clients don't get confused.

As a side benefit for more automated seek and download, the user supplies a list of desired search terms, the client send out the search request, and allows some time for results to come in. It can then choose the most common GUID returned for some assurance that it isn't grabbing a mis-identified or corrupt file. (surely, most users will delete or rename such files that they download).

Re:Cool. This means I can hack on it.

[WolfWithoutAClause]

A GUID would be good, so would a hash. However if a file gets truncated a simple hash gets all messed up.

I don't think the file will be corrupted if it comes from different servers. By ensuring you have an overlap in the fragments you collect you can ensure that they are the same file. The chances of two different files being the same over say, 128 consecutive bytes is very low for most files (mp3, mpeg, binaries).

Also, if you introduce some randomness in where you start requesting each fragment, it becomes more difficult for someone to deliberately construct files that only match in the middle, but all the other bits sound like a cuckoo clock...

The best system is actually a heirarchical hash. First you hash all the 256 byte blocks. Then you write the hashes consecutively and hash each 256 byte block of that, write them consecutively and hash that and so on, until you have a single hash of the hashed hashes. That is the file GUID.

All this gets prepended to the file, and then people can then download the blocks in any order and be sure they've got it all right.

I think this is how MojoNation works, but I haven't checked. The protocol is proof against deliberate tampering with the file, although it isn't proof against people misrepresenting a file's contents in the first place- still you can always play the file before you've finished with most browsers.

Re:Cool. This means I can hack on it.

[Rob Parkhill]

Morpheus (musiccity.com) does this now. It's very, very slick. They have abandoned the gnutella protocol, however.

I also think they are licensing a patented system to do this. More info at their website if you care to research it.

Xolox does that

[porttikivi]

Try www.xolox.nl. Arguably the hottest Gnutella client, due to its elegant ease of fetching files with multiple simultaneous segmented downloads.

A little buggy yet, though. And closed source, Microsoft only.

Phleese! Get a clue!

[Ilgaz]

The purpose of article isn't how Java is slow, or whether gtk-gnutella is updated or not, or windows run Java better than Linux (heard OS/2)

The purpose why this is real big news sits right at http://www.download.com . A program which is downloaded 250.000 times a week goes opensource!

Limewire also makes a great job for you, anti C# guys! When its downloaded, it downloads latest JAVA VM to that clueless end users machine!

I can't believe how clueless feedbacks this big news for opensource gets!

Swing is a layer over AWT

[yerricde]

LimeWire is a swing app, not an AWT app.

That's like saying "foo is an MFC app, not a Win32 app." JFC (also called Swing) is a layer around AWT and some other classes.