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Structural Damage to the Financial District
An anonymous submitter sent in a couple of links to damage reports on the World Trade Center complex - a nifty 3D map of the center and surrounding areas showing which buildings have been damaged or destroyed, and a discussion of how exactly they're going to excavate the below-ground area of the complex considering that it is below sea level.
Yeah, that map showing the destruction of one of America's greatest symbols sure is "nifty"!
"And like that
There's a problem with your idea that they should have taken "more risk" in finding people. To start off with, as horible it is to say this, most of the people in the main buildings were instant pancakes - they had a 5,000 ton building fall on them. Most of the rescue workers seem to know this, based on reports (but that doesn't mean they give up looking.) There's very little hope of having found survivors - even finding an intact body is rather difficult most of the time (again, basing this on stuff comming out of there that I've read.) But, it's something they are risking thier lives to do - it's bad enough that some rescuers took to doing things like writing thier name and SSN# on thier arms, in case they do get killed. If they take any more risks, the loss of life gets even higher for the rescuers. There have already been a couple of incidents (firemen falling down into a deep pit is a good example - luckly, none were injured to badly.) There's just too little hope of survivors. As for citequing thier methods - well, when you go down there and start picking up concrete and steel looking for survivors, I'll be more impressed with your expertise.
The underground areas are already being worked on. There's also been some reports from that area that I've read - yes, they are trying the underground areas already, and have been since the first day. Fucking gruesom. The stench alone would be enough to make most people incapable of working in there.
Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr - looking for something to read? Check out my three free novels at MidnightRyder.org
Get some perspective please. Ten thousand Americans die every day. I lot of them are killed by automobiles, but I can still say "that's a nifty car"; more of them are killed by diet related problems, but I can still say that I know a place that serves nifty deserts.
Sorrow is one thing; the sappy, uber-solemn milking of "our national grief" that the media is pumping out to manipulate us into going out and killing a bunch more people is quite another; and I, for one, want no part of it.
-- MarkusQ
Look, as a Canadian observer, I wonder about a few things.
1). Just what the hell about this mess qualifies this as a "WAR"? A war is 2 or more identifiable military groups in uniform killing each other off until the other is exhausted|defeated|runs out of young people to throw at the problem. Or perhaps the American public feels that this is better akin to your War On Drugs?
2). The media and government sure were quick to settle on America's new Bad Guy of the Week©, Osama Bin Laden. With all the intelligence that fingered him so quickly AFTER the fact, you would think that a multi-billion dollar intelligence agency could get some wind of things PRIOR to the bombings. After all, your government helped fund and train the man during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.
3).Within a week of the WTC incident, your president's State of the Union address was in effect, a declaration of "WAR" against the government of Afghanistan and any one else on their side. Them's fightin' words. Hope you don't piss off too many other small, 4th world nations with nothing to lose. I hear Pakistan has The Bomb.
.
4). Your own propaganda machines quickly turned the attacks ( and I do agreee they were attacks)
into comparisons with Pearl Harbour, then nursed and fed the idea of WAR into everyones minds, and then moved on to massaging all your brains into an easy-going dinner conversation on suspending some of your freedoms during this time of war.
I really want to avoid sounding like a crackpot but it's too late: To me, as an observer, it all just smacks of 1984. Another manufactured "war", every one of you a suspect ( god help you if you're of Arab descent), under constant surveillance, watching your country win battles over "the enemy" in a far off place you never see except through the lens of Big brother's eye. maybe not exactly, but the parralels are there, and I can't comprehend the pace at which talk of war and suspension of liberties took place. Fishy.
It pisses me off that this attack is now an excuse to bolster your sagging economy by waging a war on innocents in another country you couldn't give two shits about otherwise. You want vengeance againt those persons responsible? They're already dead. You want they're accomplices? They're the walking dead who have nothing to lose. You can find them in the hills and caves of Afghainstan. They're young men who have nothing except their pride, and the ability to kill you where you stand. They dont know any other way. YOU on the other hand, have much to lose.
They already "won". A few crackpots with fucking boxcutters took out the heart of your economy! HA! And now you're willing to bend over to your corrupt president who fixed a fucking election ( ooh!, we must rally behind the president during these hard times!) so that he can "toil and not falter" dropping fucking bombs on illiterate desert nomads, who probably don't even know what's happened in world in the last 3 MONTHS, let alone 2 weeks. And what sickens me the most is the complacency of my goverment, and the EU governments to allow yours to simply declare a fucking war out of the blue, as if revenge is OK. What happened to the UN or NATO?
I am sorry that this happened to you, I 'm sorry for all the American children who have no parent(s), and I'm sorry for the Afgani|Pakistani children without limbs and eyeballs after this WAR begins. And I'm sorry to see that we're all a still a bunch of assholes waving rocks and sticks. Just imagine spending your life tending cattle with your AK at your side because you never know when the next faceless superpower is gonna try to bomb you back to the Stone Age.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
A Special Message from Ken Chenault - CEO of American Express Company
Date:
Sat, 22 Sep 2001 00:12:26 MDT
From:
"American Express"
To:
[snip]
Dear Valued Customer,
We have all been deeply affected by the tragic events of September
11th. To all the families who mourn the loss of loved ones, our
prayers are with you.
Like so many in our country, we will forever be indebted to all
those who have given so much in responding to last week's tragic
events. Personally, I have grieved the loss, applauded the
courage, and been inspired by the sacrifice of so many for the good
of us all.
I want to reassure you that despite some damage to our New York
headquarters building, we have continued to service our customers
on an uninterrupted basis. Our 85,000 employees worldwide are doing
everything possible to provide our customers any help they need.
You can continue to use your American Express Card with confidence
for your personal and business needs. The same is true for
American Express Travelers Cheques. Our 1,700 consumer travel
service locations and business travel offices around the world, as
always, stand ready to help you. Clients of American Express
Financial Advisors can also be sure that their records are safe.
We encourage those clients to call their advisors if they have
questions about their investments.
American Express has always stood behind our customers in times of
need. I want to assure you that the global strength and commitment
of American Express stands by you now. If there is anything we can
do for you or your family, call us at any time at the telephone
number on the back of your card, one of the numbers listed below,
or visit our website at http://www.americanexpress.com.
Kenneth I. Chenault
Chairman and CEO
American Express Company
God bless America.
I thought God was busy commanding people to fly airplanes into office buildings. That guy can never make up his mind, can he?
Um, there's a difference between 6,000 people dying in accidents and 6,000 people being intentionally murdered (not to mention the economic cost).
I would argue that there is little or no difference to the people who die. I for one, do not expect to have fundamentally different feelings about my death based on whether if it is brought about by a drunk driver or a terrorist. In fact, I expect to be dead.
To the living (or perhaps in this context it would be better to say "To the yet to die") there is, I would agree, a great deal of difference. I am for example, far, far more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than by a terrorist (assuming of course that a smoker doesn't get me with second hand smoke first). Furthermore, there are many more steps I can take to protect myself from these more likely threats, and almost none of them involve letting the media work my up to a blood lust so that I sanction more senseless killing. But I doubt that was your point.
Just out of curiosity, how many have to die for you to think it's important? Another 10 jumbo jets? We know the terrorists are actively trying to get nuclear weapons. It should be pretty clear that they don't care how much damage they do or how many people they kill. How many need to die? Would a nuke killing 5 million people be enough for you?
This seems to me utter blather. I object to using the deaths of some innocents to justify killing more innocents; you "rebut" by asking how many more people I want to die, as if I were the one screaming for blood. In case you still don't get it:
I don't think killing innocent people is a good idea.
I have no objection to apprehending the culprits, including their support staff, charging them with murder and, if they are convicted, imprisoning or executing them to prevent further atrocities. This is a far cry from declaring "war on Afganastan" or "nuking 5 million people."
Guess what -- sometimes there are more important things in life than how soon you get your shiny new video game.
I have no idea where this came from. In point of fact, I have never owned a video game, shiny or dull, new or used. And even if I had, I expect that I would still object to being badgered into attacking a nation of several million poor people on the basis of the alleged actions of one wealthy nut case and his misguided followers.
-- MarkusQ
I believe this disaster has been there since the beginning (or near the beginning). Put dense commercial zoning (the kind that breeds tall buildings) near an airport and eventually you should get a plane crash.
Why not just build on top of that rubble with a new structure?
Ask the guys who didn't worry about the stability of the ground under the Tower of Pisa.
If there's one thing you need when you're building a structure tens of stories high and weighing hundreds of thousands of tons, it's a damned rock-stable piece of ground for the structure to sit on. According to reports, the owner of the site wants to put up four 50 story buildings in place of the twin towers, so they will need to clear everything out and reestablish a good foundation.
Another reason they can't just plow it under is the infrastructure buried beneath. They're not going to just write off the train tunnel to NJ, presumably thousands of commuters relied on it every day. Rebuilt offices will need close-by transit to bring the workers in. And they definitely have to shore up that 'bathtub' that holds back the waters of the Hudson. If that is breached, it could negatively affect the foundation stability of the buildings that survived in the area.
~Philly