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NVidia nForce Reviewed
CtrlPhreak writes: "The highly awaited NVidia nForce is finally here. Anandtech has a review of an nForce 420 reference board. This is the one with integrated dolby 5.1 sound, a GF2 MX core at 6x agp, and dual-channel DDR RAM! Go check it out."
The review seems to say that there's too much bandwidth available on the 420 series. Granted, it is used if you stick with the built in video, but won't someone paying a premium for the 420 most likely stick their own AGP card in? Maybe a Radeon 7500 or a GeForce 3...
At any rate, I'm wondering if the nForce is set for a multiprocessor future, especially since it offers so much bandwidth. One Athlon can't take full advantage of all that bandwidth, but I'll bet two could.
With nVidia positioning themselves as the bandwidth gurus on the AMD side, I wonder how long it will be before ServerWorks steps in and showers us with their chipsets (for AMD). My guess is ServerWorks will wait for AMD chips to support 4+ processors in a single box.
It's very interesting to see that chipset out.
;)
Definately not what I would consider a performance motherboard, but I'd rate it better than an i810 or similar in terms of a chipset that has everything integrated. I mean, really, if you look at the benchmarks, your average PC manufacturer can make systems that don't need ethernet, sound, or video cards. And because it's all done by nVidia, you can bet that people who were preprogrammed by the local geek to loathe onboard Intel video will break programming and pick up an nForce based board because nVidia has got to be good, right?
Of course, the much touted dual-bus DDR-SDRAM doesn't net you too much performance over a single-bus DDR-SDRAM motherboard, mostly because it is more bandwidth than the CPU can pump. But it does make an onboard video card suck slightly less than trying to make a video card share a single PC133 SDRAM chanel.
Gentoo Sucks
130fps in Quake 3 = 30 fps in Quake 4.
If you don't want to upgrade hardware every time new software is release then, when you do upgrade, it is best to do so to something more powerful than the current software
Something about this motherboard seems strangely familliar.....
- On-board, highly-advanced graphics processor? Check.
- On-board, highly-advanced sound processor? Check.
- On-board, almost every other connector and whoosit you could want in a PC? Check.
Oh my God, they've invented the Amiga!
:)
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
Naw, it's smart business.
;)
;)
Consider all of the laid off ex-dotcommers who don't have large disposable incomes right now.
Playstations for the poor!!!
Gentoo Sucks
Um...yeah. nVidia hasn't always been a leader in the field. They have publically said that their first video card was a complete and utter failuer, because they chose to accelerate quadrilaterals instead of triangles, and triangles became the standard.
Why bother with a GF3 though? Yes, it has some more features that alleviate bandwidth some, but it would have made a larger die, and therefore cost more, and only given marginally better performance (though admittedly, the quality would probably have been better). But, given that the integrated video is already bandwidth limited why should they stuff a bigger, more expensive core in there that wouldn't perform much better?
For the same reason, rambus will become more desirable as time passes.
What is an ACR slot?
Forget the do-it-yourself Tivo, and this still could have a role in a geek's home theater. I'm looking for a solution to use my home theater for gaming. I don't necessarily need earth-shattering Quake scores, but I need something that will look good on my high definition-ready monitor and sound good on my surround-sound system.
My fiance wouldn't like the TV becoming a gaming console for 1st person shooters, but for more communal games, it would be nice. I'd love to play group games like Heroes 3 on a TV with a wireless RF or IR mouse/trackball and keyboard. While playing audio CDs, running visualizations, etc.
The support for Digital Output without the connection is kinda silly. I haven't been able to find what video-out (if any) is supported because of slashdotting. Component Video out supporting 480p is a minimum, and 720p and 1080i would be useful as well.
This could make it possible to make PC-based stereo components, supporting gaming, integration with your home LAN (wired or wireless), etc., but it needs to support all the desired options.
Alex
(N/T) ... like the body or the subject!)
Cat got your tongue? (something important seems to be missing from your comment
Best Slashdot Co
I keep reading that it is possible to use another AGP card with this mothergoard. What I would really like to know is wether I can hook up two displays to the box. One on the nForce output and one on a card of my choice.
I know it should be doable with an old PCI card and the nForce, or even with an old PCI card and a new AGP card (circumventing the nForce completely).
The one reason I can find (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the nForce is already an AGP card, and there can only be one such card on the mb. Is that true?
If it's possible, then I would have no problem buying a mb based on the nForce as soon as it becomes available (my dual Celery466 + TNT2 M64 is getting a bit too long in the tooth). Otherwise, for me at least, it would be a better option to go with the AMP chipset (is it the 760), which is probably cheaper. and just go with a GForce3 (which I would get anyways)
I really don't want to sound like a zealot or anything like that, but I would like to know if the integrated peripherals (sound, video, NIC) will be supported under Linux. It seems like a no-brainer for the video, given NVIDIA's commendable (though closed) Linux drivers. I remember jumping out and buying a TNT2 when they announced Linux support for the card, then waiting a year for the 4.X drivers to finally arrive. Now that I'm finally going to upgrade my computer, the nForce features are attractive, but I would like to know they are supported at the time of purchase instead of having to while away months wishing I'd bought products with existing support.
:)
Really, this isn't a whinge about NVIDIA. Any company that supports Linux to the parity of their Windows releases deserves respect (are you listening ATI? Cirrus Logic? Guillemot? Creative?) After a few initially iffy driver releases, the very latest versions have been pretty much perfect for me. I just want to know if the features of this chipset will be supported off the bat this time. A kernel module for the NIC is probably not a major issue, but a closed sound-card driver will be hard to reconcile with the ALSA project, set to be the new Linux sound standard in 2.5.x. But any support is better than none, as they have proven in the past.
Flame away zealots
Considering how much CPU socket/slots and memory standards have been changing, the reuse value of a lot of PC components has been dropping quite a bit. The last 3 systems I built, I only reused harddrives and CDROMs from older systems...Considering this trend, integrated motherboards aren't quite as bad as they once seemed. I'd rather buy an integrated kick-ass solution once a year than buy all new parts and deal with the associated incompatibilities...So, if PC makers must continue with these upgrade-forcing standards-obsoleting changes, I'll probably start going integrated...
that we railed on the impersonal juggernaut that was 3D-FX, and cheered the peppy little underdog that was known as nVidia.
.ahem.
'Life is like a spoonful of Drain-O, it feels good on the way down but leaves you feeling hollow inside'
I upgraded to a machine very similiar to this a few days ago. I'm running Windows 2000 and part of my focus was on games, so my decisions may not be relevant to you.
CPU: AMD Thunderbird 1.2GHz Socket A 266MHz
It's only a little extra to get a 1.4. Athlons run hot, I like the idea of being able to underclock my processor if things get a little too toasty.
RAM: DDR SDRAM 2100 2 * 256 MB Socket A
RAM here is tricky. Notice that most DDR boards only support 2 DIMM slots, you're cutting off an important future upgrade route. I went with a high performance 512MB from Mushkin.
Harddrive: Western Digital Caviar 7200 RPM 40 GB
Maxtor seems like the best bet currently. I'd lean towards them.
Motherboard: Asus A7M266, AMD761-chipsett, Socket A
This is the motherboard I got. I really like it, but note that it's pricier than most of the competitors. It's nice to have a motherboard that just works.
Sound Card: Creative Soundblaster Live! 1024
I like my SB Live and generally recommend them. Note that they do have a problem with the VIA 686b chipset, which is the southbridge on the ASUS A7M266. I haven't experienced any problems, but others have.
Video Card: Matrox Millenium G450 32MB DDR-Ram, Bulk
If 3D games are in your future, I recommend going with an nVidia Geforce 2/3. I tossed my Matrox G400 a few months ago because I got few up with it. Matrox's do have great 2D support though, and I can't speak of their reliability under Linux.
The rest isn't worth commenting on. Sounds like you're on the right track, good luck.
Microsoft paid nVidia $100 million to create a motherboard with an integrated GPU for the XBox. The GPU for the unreleased XBox will be better than the GeForce 3.
Microsoft allowed nVidia to sell the technology that was developed (the nForce), as long as they didn't sell it with anything higher than a GeForce 2, because then there would be no reason to buy the XBox. In short, nVidia can't sell the nForce with a GeForce 3 because that would violate their agreement with Microsoft.
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q3/010917/index .html
I can't think of a circumstance where I would want to trust a 4-way server to an AMD chip. Love it for my desktop though.
I want a cluster of Palomino'ed 420's running Mosix scalable linux clustering (see http://www.mosix.cs.huji.ac.il/) to do my meteorology/air quality forecasts (see http://envpro.ncsc.org/projects/SECMEP/secmep.html with.
"My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
Now you need to make a "real interresting product", if you wanna make cash, go attack against the 760MP chipset. I mean, I won't pay an extra 50% on a motherboard for 10-15% better performance, if I can pay 75%% for doubling it (without counting the price for the extra cpu) (prices of the cpu are so cheap right now anyways :)).
:) (I am using it primarely for 3d rendering so you see where I am going).
I won't buy a single cpu motherboard in these times, with the hammer around the block, and the fact that I know I'll be outdated rapidly, my next syste1m will be like my current: Dual cpu, overclockable a bit and will last me at least 2 years, well hopefully
My current system is a BP6 (dual celery 366->550). I am waiting for the "next BP6". I thought about dual durons, but now the price of Athlons is so cheap that I am just waiting for the 1.2GHZMP to take a small drop, and the Tiger MP to get a competitor so it reaches decent level (like the BP6 was). At least with that, I won't cry out when the Hammer will come out with a bigger price tag and 3x the performance over a single processor machine, I'll be on par and over the barrier on the price/performance issue (at least for a good while).
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
What I'm looking forward to with the nForce is only one set of drivers to worry about. In my job, I simply need to use at least one Windows machine and this chipset and its drivers will make that one burden significantly smaller. Looking forward to the commerical boards and long-term stability reports with Windows 2000 and Windows XP. As for Linux, I'll keep rolling my own systems with a plethora of components.
According to Anand's system specs it looks like there was just a single DDR266 memory module used in the nForce board. According to the nVidia information I've read the proper configuration for a 256 MB system would be to use 128 MB in Bank 1 and 128 MB in Bank 2. Otherwise the system is only using one bank, which would explain the marginal bandwidth increase (3%) over the VIA KT266A. It would be nice to see the board with one and two memory modules installed to see how the second bank inhances bandwidth and overall performance.
Those comparing this to other cards should keep in mind that MX is the cheap version of the nVidia cards.
A real graphics speed test should be done v. a Geforce2 GTS.
I don't udnertand why nVidia made this card with an MX unelss they were trying to keep its cost down.
Does anyone remember Diamond back in the good old days before S3 bought them and immediately turned one of the finest American component companies to shit?
Remember that Diamond specialized in taking reference boards and just tweaking the crap out of them and then crowing it all with rock steady drivers? Whether it was Voodoo, Nvidia, Aureal or whatever. Diamond products where as solid as bank vaults and then raised the bar for everyone else. (The Soundblaster Live! Turned out as good as it did because Diamond was the first company to release a PCI audio card that was not only magnificent, but could be found at your local Best Buy, unlike Turtle Beach products, which were also excellent but not as widely or as well distributed. Since the Soundblaster AWE was Ubiquitous and still an ISA part. This kinds of terrorized them)
Okay my point. Not only am I somewhat excited by the potential of the nForce, but I am kind of giddy to see that NVidia groks audio as well as it does video. I am not happy Soundblaster has a lock on Audio peripherals (though the Hercules Game Theater XP is pretty hot) and would love to see real geeks with solid parts and solid drivers up on those same shelves.
Has anyone heard if NVidia is thinking about releasing the audio end of the nforce as a separate PCI part? Does NVidia have any plans to enter into the aftermarket component market?
No one has yet to fill Diamonds shoes, It would be fun to see Nvidia try.
I suspect we'll see some nice-looking desktops for business, and low-end machines for the home, based on this. The big push for businesses will probably be lower cost of ownership.
At least, they will never see me buying one of their cards until they release the source of their drivers for inclusion in XFree 4.x !!
Is their anyone at Nvidia who can read and pass on the essay from RMS (esp. the appendix from the Magic Cauldron) :
Why Closing Drivers Loses A Vendor Money
With almost all the components you need and no doubt in a better box why would anyone assemble a computer today is beyound me. Now with it all one the main board it is starting to seem more and more "hardcore".
It seem's to me that we are witnessing the end of a era, wheather this is good or bad I leave up to you guy's.
The reason I chose this CD drive is that it was the cheapest one I could get that reportedly worked under Linux. I'm not sure I want a DVD drive at this time....
It looks like the whole DVD industry is busy abusing consumers as much as they possibly can. Obviously, you have the DVD-CCA, I would certainly not want any of my money getting into their hands.
But you have zoning and stuff too, and while I hear it is easy to work around it, and that it is probably even legal to do that here in Norway, I still don't feel like it. As long as the industry doesn't respect their customers, they should not exist.
That's why I figured I would just get a cheap CD-ROM drive right now, and get a DVD drive or whatever later, when the industry gets a clue.
However, I might be barking up the wrong tree, I guess, so if anybody is aware of a manufacturer who aren't in on this, I would certainly consider it.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid