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Star Trek: Enterprise Reactions?
So, what did you think of it? The theme song has to go. Commander Tucker ("Kumanduh Tuckah") needs to get a personality other than "he'll be just like McCoy, only clumsy and stupid". Is it really necessary to rehash "cold emotionless Vulcans vs. thoughtless, reckless humans"? That plot device was old thirty years ago and it's physically painful to watch now. How can armor plating go "offline"? Electromagnetic shields maybe, but one of the virtues of a hunk of steel is that it doesn't go "offline". And what's with the soft porn? I was waiting for the bow-chicka-bow-wow music to kick in. CT: I didn't get to see it! I don't get UPN! Curses!
For anyone lacking UPN affliliates.
Quantuum Leap? Where was Al throughout the whole show. Kinda disappointed me. And he only did the leap thing once. Oh well.
Maybe you should wait until everyone in the US has had a chance to watch it Mr. Eastern Standard Time. :-P
-Jayde
What's a sig?
Does anyone remember the "Encounter at Space JellyfishLand (er, Farpoint)" that was the pilot of TNG?
Personally, I thought it was EXCELLENT for a pilot. The show will get its legs--let it happen and enjoy what you can while it does. Or just watch Andromeda.
Always looking to pick. Lighten up, dude.
Wow, Michael. Could you post a few more spoilers on the top of the front page? I don't think there are enough.
Seriously. Not everyone watched or even *could* watch Enterprise tonight. You could have at least had the courtesy to hide the spoilers "under the fold", so to speak.
Now, for my opinion (some spoiler content).
It looks good as far as a stand-alone show is concerned. But it seems to break from the "known" Star Trek history, as described by the other shows and movies (not books and fanfic). For instance, we're looking at the later appearance of the Klingons, when Worf told us that something happened to change their appearance that "we don't like to talk about". And Picard told us that the war with the Klingons was sparked by a botched first contact with them. But that contact didn't seem to be botched.
I'm a little disappointed with how contrived the disinfectant scene was. And the way the camera paused during it was just silly. And Archer's whole thing with staying on the station after he set the maglock charge was pointless. First, it should have been longer than 5 seconds. Second, there was noone shooting at him, so there wasn't really a reason to set it and stand there, rather than setting it and running.
I think I'll wait for a couple more episodes to reevaluate that and see if I really care about this series. As it is, I can take it or leave it.
-Todd
"The details of my life are quite inconsequential..."
C'mon people.
Star Trek: The Original: First season
-Wooden acting, hokey stories, lotsa work to be done.
Star Trek: TNG: First Season
-Wooden acting, hokey stories, lotsa work to be done (just watch some of them fer chrissakes!).
DS9: First Season:
-Wooden acting, hokey stories, lotsa work to be done.
Voyager: First season (and second, and third...)
-Wooden acting, hokey stories, lotsa work to be done.
Give the series a little time to put down some roots.
Sheesh.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Looks like Paramount is still trying to grab viewwers by their gonads. I know that I was certainly paying close attention to the 'disinfection' scene where the guy got to rub gelatin all over the scantily-clad vulcan girl.
Still, I was pleasantly surprised by the level of prejudice, intolerance and violence. This show definitely played a lot like an old TOS show. It was quite a refreshing change of pace from Voyager and TNG's 'moral issue of the week' approach.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
Here's the original subject that Slashdot's "Lameness filter" censored:
1950 meets 2001 meets 2150
We knew it would be a problem, and it's interesting to see it play out on the screen. Humans have achieved world peace, yet captains and admirals are all white males. Computers have speech capability, yet voice-activation is not yet invented. And, of course what we all expected -- no gender-neutral language yet.
Anything that results in fewer of 'em down here is a plus in my book! And send the the damn telephone sanitizers and hairdressers with them!
Bugrit! Millenium hand and shrimp!
So it's going to be the Confederation now??
I thought it was best pilot of all the spin-offs - but no way does it compare to that great TOS pilot "The Cage"
A quick google search led me to this site.
F-bacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
It was a good beginning for the series. I think there is a lot of potential for the characters, The Dr in particular.
While I'm not sure where the 29th centure guy is going to go, or wht they'll do with him, it is a plot hook, and presumabily will develop into a story arch. Which is what everyone says they like.
The Jello scene did perhaps go a bit over the line, it serverd a usefull purpose in allowing the chracters to intereact.
Without it, you'd be asking "Why the hell didn't she take the ship and run. I thought Vulcans were logical."
I think you may be slamming it because your expectations were too high. It was good television, and good startrek.
There are some reviews of it at http://www.revolutionsf.com/article/441.html
Colin Davis
I liked scott as the captain. The rehash of the standard trek technology into older, original types is interesting. My first reaction was that the theme song just plain sucked. The intro images fits in with the overall theme nicely. I think it has some problems, all mentioned in the story, but it has promise. When did kingons and humans start hating each other? I know they had to meet first, but throughout the original series, they were the above all enemies. I'm going to keep on watching it for a couple of weeks and see how it goes. It wasn't the series premiere that I'd hoped for. My fav premiere is still TNG one, great characters, great story, with a good twist.
Trek seems to be de-evolving into soft porn. From 7of9, we all know what the whole point of her character was, now to this. It doesn't really fit into the series about exploration and discovery. I don't know, do we really need it? (after all, what's the internet here for anyway?)
WikiAfterDark.com It's a sex wiki, go now!
I kinda liked the show, keeping in mind that its a pilot. It had a bunch of good qualities:
No universal translators-Hooray, a realistic look at meeting strangers...they're strange!
No ridiculous premise-phew...they haven't been warped to a far off dimension, a la the worst trek of all. They're just explorers, trying to prove themselves.
They aren't invincible-There doesn't need to be mind control or some wacky technology to disable the Enterprise ( like in STTNG) it gets pounded, because, frankly, it's not that good.
There is potential for some ongoing plot lines, like the best of DS9. If the show is done right, there will be diplomatic issues w/ the Klingons. (the whole encoded information in genes, conspiracy thing)
On the other hand, there are a few annoying bits:
I didn't like the vulcan. She wasn't even hot enough to fill the 7/9 spot. The just bugged me, like a really dumb spock. At least the original pointy ears respected the humans.
There wasn't a lot of character development, but hopefully that will come with time.
Anyway, I'd tune in to the next few episodes to see if the problems go away.
My Karma is so good, I'm the Dalai Lama...or something.
Jolene Blalock.
Zounds.
Damn this compression filter!
I swear, when that woman was on the radio it really really sounded like she said CmdrTaco.. /. reference?
It appears that Vulcan nipples are as pointy as their ears...
Ok, just got done with the viewing party I threw here at the house. Here's the general impressions of the group:
1) Yes, theme music was LAME, but the intro video was pretty cool.
2) Is it cold in that bio-decom room or something?
3) There were some good laughs.
4) The doctor is going to be a great character.
5) The whole Enterprise going to Kronos is a bit of a stretch. Majorly F's with the whole timeline of the other series'.
6) We all liked how they made it seem like this is the first time they've really gone away from Earth. Thing is, you'd think they had already been doing that with ships that could do less than Warp-5 and as a result would have at least met a FEW more species and learned stuff from them. It seems like the Vulcans hold a monopoly on information in this series.
7) The Speech by Cochran was LAME!
Now, in regards to what others have been posting...
We HAVE to re-hash the whole Human vs Vulcan thing because at the time of this series, it HASN'T HAPPENED YET!
The armor plating is polarized by an electromagnetic field to help repel particle weapons. As a result, yes, it CAN go down (ie, power failure). Then it's just plain old hunks of steel. So, this is basically the pre-cursor to shields.
I personally would have prefered it if they would have kept things fairly primitive and then over time phased in the technologies that we all know and love (like transporters, phasers, etc.) They more or less introduce all of them in the first episode (though, as we saw, they're all pretty new and not very reliable.)
Anyhow, just my $0.02
know when they are being hoodwinked.
+ "Phase pistols"? Stick with the laser pistol up till at least TOS, please.
+ A Vulcan, who has zero ties to Earth's Starfleet (no Federation) not only sits in the Captain's chair 15 minutes into the show, but takes command?
+ "Wading into space"? After WWIII and warp speed, we blasted off the planet. Most warp research was done on Alpha Centari (See TOS show with ZC and the Companion)
+ The last movie placed First Contact in circa 2063. This is 90 years later, 2153.
According the ST Encyclopedia, the Federation was founded by several planets in 2161, after the Romulan wars. Better get busy in order to fight and win a war with allies and enemies you haven't met in less than ten years!
+ I won't even talk about warp 5.
+ IDIC. What happened to Vulcan respect and tolerance and non-judgementalism?
If I got any of this wrong, say so. (Not that I have to worry...)
The new series is quite different from the other Star Trek series in many ways. And I will say that it is a good thing. They did quite a few things right.
First, the technology was appropriate to the timeframe. The ship has a maximum speed of about Warp 4. The warp core looks primitive. The medical techniques look primitive. There is no universal translater, just a linguist.
Another element they got right was the distrust between the Vulcans and Humans. Some posters have already complained about the rehashing of the "Emotionless Vulcans vs Irrational Humans". That will be a factor, but the issue is larger then that. The distrust between the two races goes beyond the emotion vs logic debate. The humans see the Vulcans as being restrictive and patronizing. And the Vulcans are somewhat racist. The role of the Vulcans is very close to that of a colonizing authority as in the British of the 18th century. An intresting side effect is that the humans are currently in the role of one of the many background races that really does not matter in the greater scheme of things.
They will have to be careful though if they wish to do better the Voyager did. They cannot fall back too often on "Sexy Exotic Alien Softcore" before they alienate too many long time fans. And the temporal villians are something else to be cautious with. It will allow the series to explain some deviations in continuity, but they must avoid breaking all continuity with the other series.
This pilot was stronger then the TNG and DS9 pilots. And Trek shows tend to take a while to 'hit their stride'. It will be a few weeks before I come to a conclusion, but the series is off to a good start.
END COMMUNICATION
- This is the later Klingon look, but in TNG Worf says "something happened" to change the Klingons' appearance that they don't discuss. However, if there were originally two Klingon races, one with the "old" look and one with the new, maybe the old-style ones were forcibly changed to look like the others. Thus they (the formerly-old-style Klingons) would not like to talk about being forced to change their cultural identity.
- The first contact we have here might indeed be botched. We don't yet know. There might turn out to be something the Enterprise crew has done that the Klingons haven't found out about yet. Or maybe "first contact" is an ongoing event and this is just the first note of the movement.
- This Enterprise doesn't appear in Picard's set of models. But is it specifically stated that Picard's models are all the Enterprises? (I don't remember what ships exactly were included -- the carrier? the Space Shuttle? the wooden frigate?) Maybe he just had all the NCC-1701x Enterprises.
And I liked the theme. My favorite is still the Voyager intro (even though I never really liked the show) but this is a close second.
-- Old Man Kensey
Quite Simply,
I loved it.
I thought the Theme Song was touching.
I liked the vague familiarity of the "Country Doctor" and the Vulcan Science Officer.
I liked the spaceship that "felt" like a spaceship instead of a luxury hotel.
I liked the feeling of an impatient humanity that was well conveyed.
I liked the new translator chic who looks like she can scream better than Chekov could (and that says a lot).
I do wonder why the exposed crew didn't have to decon their "private areas," or will they just be sick in a few weeks as a result of their modesty. (No, UPN didn't have to show it but I would have liked them to have implied it at least.)
These are the lyrics to the theme song from the original series:
Beyond the rim of the starlight
My love is wandering in starflight
I know he'll find in star clustered reaches
Love strange, love a star woman teaches
I know his journey ends never
His star trek will go on forever
But tell him while he wanders his starry sea
Remember me, remember me.
Allegedly. (Sounds more like the Urusei Yatsura theme song to me. <--Proof I'm a dork.)
Your mouth is like Columbus Day.
The essentials of a good Star Trek:
Theme Song: Sucked. Come on, I need the orchestra with the powerful brass about ready to blow my ear drums away. Something new. Not some recycled theme song written by a recycled band.
Ship: Nice design, though I honestly want to just have someone on the show explain why they picked that design for Star Fleet (circular disk, engines in the rear). If this is their first big star-ship, then at least tell me why they built it the way they did.
Crew: Interesting, but I was hoping for at least a little bit more of a clash between everyone's feelings toward each other. They all get along like compadres. Even the Vulcan science officer had little trouble getting along with the captain. Half of the storylines in Original Series/TNG/DS9 were about clashes between the crew. There's also little racial difference between them all. I mean, they're all Americanized people. At least Czechov had an accent.
Crew Chemistry: Gee, am I detecting a resurected Kirk/McCoy relationship in the captain and his science officer? At least McCoy knew when to add "colorful metaphors" when they were needed. It seems like Bacula just doesn't get the timing right (perhaps he could use some guidance from the South Park writers...can you imagine him yelling out to his crew, "Kick Ass!", and "Respect my Authorita!" to the Klingons?).
Storyline: Wait, there was a storyline I had to follow? Sorry...I had too many images of rubbing petroleum jelly all over some hot woman's back and behind. Ever since I saw some peculiar protrusions thrusting out of the Vulcan's undershirt I lost all sense of storyline.
Hot chick: Well, at least they got one thing right. Ever since Councelor Troi, this has been an absolute must. Voyager got it right in the second half of their run with Seven. At least they were able to keep some of my attention off the storyline and on the Jolene Blalock.
All in all: give me about a month to see if they can go somewhere with their setup. They've put in some good potential, and I'd like to see something come of it. But the key I would say is that Bacula has GOT to get an edge. Come on...Kirk, Sisqo, Picard, and Janeway all had veins popping out of their foreheads at one time or another in the show. Bacula's gotta do his part as well to continue the captain's legacy.
Could be. I know definitely I heard a lot of people trying to get "first contact".
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Second, didn't anyone else hear them say, "Polarize the hull plates!"? It's not the steel that's offline, but the polarization (early shield technology?) that was breaking down.
Forget it. Yer wasting your breath - some of the first people to start slammin' it were people who didn't really care in the first place. Some just WANT to hate this Trek as much as they hated Voyager (And, can ya blame 'em after that damned show? It almost got decent in the last season. Almost.) I heard exactly the same thing you did. So did everyone else, but some just gotta have something to bitch about.
Remember how it was supposedly the Vulcans that made First Contact with Earth after the first warp drive test? From the bit I saw (missed the first 1/2 hour :-/), it's the primitive race (Humans) chaifing under to tutalige of the advanced race (Vulcans). Not sure how much they'l be able to stretch out of that one, but it might make for some fresh material.
I agree - it's a much different perspective on things than the normal Trek setting for the last 3 shows where Humans and Vulcans are considered 'equal'. Plus, I see something very cool about this - while the Vulcans seem to have tried to protect us from ourselves based on what we've seen so far, we aren't beyond going off half cocked, and really screwing things up. I really expect to see this happen a couple of times within the series.
The other thing I see comming is how the Prime Directive finally gets created. So far, it doesn't exist. Humans can't really understand how come the Vulcans would hold back technology from us. We finally break free of the yoke somewhat, and go out on our own. Eventually, we're gonna find another species that is SO CLOSE to making it to warp technolgy, and we'll hand it to them. Then watch them have it blow up in thier face (yes, there was a Voyager a bit like that in the last season. One of the few almost likable episodes, but, it was too easily resolved for my tastes. Like most Voyager episodes. A hangnail is more of a problem than most of thier moral delimas.) After we see that happen, we'll probably start to understand the Vulcan mindset concerning the subject, and the Prime Directive will eventually created.
If fact, that Humans CAN and WILL totally screw up from time to time in this show is going to be one of my favorite things about it. 'Bout time we show ourselves for what we really are - flawed beings, who learn to adapt and overcome our problems eventually. (Ok, that's the rose colored glasses version ;-)
Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr - looking for something to read? Check out my three free novels at MidnightRyder.org
Let's see...
Getting kissed by alien hotties...
Running, two-gun Western-style shoot-outs...
Caution-be-damned attitude...
Oh, yes -- Jim Kirk is back!
(Now they just need to build a decent show around him...but I think they're on their way.)
- - - -
The real Tetsujin 28 is a giant robot.
*Spoilers* (Just in case) :)
The dislike/prejudice between the Vulcans and Humans was well explained, and made quite a lot of sense as far as I was concerned. Actually did a lot for me... think it's good for there to be a bit of distrust/tension on the bridge.
Another thing I enjoyed was the Klingon, though mostly because it was the first. That's one of the nice things about this show... we get to see all the firsts. The first 'Phase Pistols' (read, phasers), the first time at Rigel-X, the first Klingon encounter, etc.
Personally I'm looking forward to seeing what alienates the Klingons and Starfleet (Though is it just me or did it sound like the Vulcan ambassador talking to the just-introduced aliens? Possibly it was, his interaction is discovered, and the Klinzhai find fault with Starfleet also since they're allies of the Vulcans? Hmmm...)
And people keep talking about the decon scene (Read: Shower scene). What purpose did it play? To show that the vulcan's stacked, that's why. Worked quite well too, as far as I was concerned.
But there was one thing that just absolutely bugged the crap out of me. That's the transporter. Berman had said that they wouldn't have one in this series, mostly since it was too much of a plot safety-net. When the writers couldn't think of a plausible method to do something, out came the transporter. Then what does he go and do? He hands them back the safety net. (Though the 'Leap' effect was pretty neat)
Which reminds me, wouldn't the transporter systems need to be newer than 300yrs for Bones to always be worked up about the 'newfangled gadgets'? If something's been around for that long, I don't think someone would have that sort of reaction.
But overall I have to say that I'm looking forward to the coming episodes of 'Quantum Enterprise'.
'Life is like a spoonful of Drain-O, it feels good on the way down but leaves you feeling hollow inside'
I'm waiting til Sunday to watch Enterprise. Thanks, Space!
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Get over it. It's a TV show, not a coding textbook. Yes there will be inconsistencies and errors and who knows what else. Sometimes they're done for dramatic effect ("whoosh" sounds in space), sometimes they're done for convenience (ships always being shown upright 'cause it's too hard to explain to Uncle Vern why it's not *really* upside-down) and sometimes they just screw up. Or an author screwed up years ago. Or they're screwing with continuity on purpose and this will all make sense later.
Whatever the case for a premier episode it wasn't half bad. As many others have pointed out it's no worse then most other TV shows premier episodes and certianly not worse then any other ST's premier episode.
They've established the characters, given us a couple of directions for dramatic tension, showed off the fancy new (old) hardware and apparently started their first big plotline. Not bad for one show.
Sure we can all wonder if this is going to rise up to the best of the past or suck out loud like Voyager. As many others have pointed out that all of the series and movies and books and whatnot have had good stuff sprinkled amongst a lot of clunkers. Now the question is how will this new team and cast and direction play out and it's really unfair to judge from just one episode, particularly the first.
So enough nice-talk, my own opinions:
Anyway, I'll hold my judgement for a few more episodes. At least the premier wasn't awful even though it wasn't great either. Heres to hope...
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
None of the "actors" could perform.
Yeah, let's look at the pilot for TOS. The very first one. Then the second one. Then we'll look at TNG's pilot.
Them people damned near had broom handles where ther spines were. The acting was INCREDIBLY stiff. No one knew their characters yet. In TOS, there wasn't even a 'mold' for that type of character yet (yes, there was Sci-fi stuff done before that, but just LOOK at it. EEEKS! Most of it was so bad it wasn't even worth it.) TNG they had something they could look towards for a model, but, none of the characters were really easily translated (Picard, for instance, couldn't be a remodled Kirk.) It wasn't until the second Season that TNG got to be very good, and continued to improve. TOS managed to 'get it' a little quicker, IMHO (Why? Dunno.) Give it time... they will grow into thier rolls, and make the characters live (heck, even the Voyager group managed THAT MUCH eventually. It took them almost the entier series to do it ;-)
The vulcan was a hissing bitch during the first half, I thought count bakula wanted to cry several time, the plot was mediocre even by the standards of the crew that brought us voyager.
Well, considering that Archer already told her at thier first meeting he'd love to knock her on her ass, can you BLAME HER? ;-)
On the Count Bakula comment, I've got no clue WTF you are talking about. Heck, he probably gave the best performance in the show. Which other actor showed much emotion on thier faces during the whole show? Not many, since they really don't know the character enough yet to really know what the character is thinking.
As for the plot - Ok, I'll give you a point for it being 'mediocre'. Comparied to the V word, naw - they already set the standard for what mediocre episodes are, and for bad episodes. ('Cept possibly "Spock's Brain" from TOS ;-) It could have been better. I think alot of it was time spent trying to prove "Hey, this isn't the Trek Universe you are used to", and trying to set the stage for where the series is going to head in the future.
What amazes me is that no one seems to have gone back to the original ST series to see what made it great. It was daring culturally for its time and tried to present a complex cast of characters. Was it perfect? No. But the Berman vision of the future is a piece of plasticine crap undistinguished by any character motivation or deep emotion.
You say Scott Bakula looked like he was going to cry, but, then say there wasn't any emotion? Sheesh.
TOS didn't have much of a complex cast. It had 3 primary characters, and 5 lesser characters. Heck, Friends has almost that many characters. So far, Enterprise hasn't even had much of a chance to explore these characters.
And of course - when all else fails when flaming Trek, pull out the Berman card. Fine, I'll trump ya with a... shoot. Ok, I gotta admit - most of what Berman touches turns to shit. He's got the Septic Tank touch. But he's finally way from the V word - he's got the chance to break free. With ST:Borager, there was a trap - once it started a direction, it was DAMNED HARD (IMHO) to change that direction. Here he's got the chance at a clean slate to work from. Given the start here, it might actually work out. Personally, I think Enterprise is gonna ROCK starting about second season, once the writers, the actors, etc., finally get in tune with thier characters and the job at hand. But I could be wrong - it's too damned hard to tell just from one episode. Give it a season to work out the kinks, then check it out again if you don't like it so far.
If nothing else, tune in for time to time just to check out the latest advances in Vulcan anatomy... ;-)
Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr - looking for something to read? Check out my three free novels at MidnightRyder.org
Fer chrissakes. "Hi there, we're the /. crowd, and we have the patience of a mayfly..."
/.'s are from over-pumped expectations.
"There wasn't any character development" : hey guys, this was a PILOT. Few pilots develop much characterwise, they have too much expositional ground to cover. Two hours is what, 80 pages of script? How much "development" can you cram into that without forcing it, AND still have time to show all the neato-whiz-bang special effects for which the series is famed? (And remember, they ARE trying to build a ~new~ audience, not just attract the old. The old will keep coming to con's and buying rubber vulcan ears forever.)
"How does armor plate go offline?" SOMEbody wasn't listening when they said that the armor POLARIZATION had gone off line. 1) At least in the NCC1701 a great deal of the hull stability was imparted by gravitic and other (insert pseudo-physics handwaving) fields. Assuming something has to assist normal matter holding together at 4.5 times the speed of light, yeah, I guess that would make sense. 2) Alternately, (insert more pseudo-physics handwaving) one could postulate that the "armor" was an ultradense iron/coherent molecules/whatever the heck - something that required a charge and computer support to dynamically resist damage. Whatever, it's nit picking.
I thought the pilot was decent. Bakula was (if I may mix genres) a physical Sean Connery-esque to Picard's Roger Moore-ish distance. I thought, yes, some of the supporting roles were pretty forced. But then again, I *remember* Encounter at Farpoint - a truly crappy pilot. Ship's Counsellor? What, a ship's prostitute in the future? And remember, Riker and Troi could communicate telpathically? That was dumped pretty quickly. And who can forget the Naked Now (episode 2) where writers (apparently already grasping at plot straws) reverted to the old saw of "everyone acting opposite" which would have been a lot better if we had more than caricature opinions of what their personalities WERE in the first place!
ST:NG took FIVE SEASONS to come up with ep's like "The Inner Light" - DS:9 royally sucked the first 2 years (fortunate, since I preferred watching B5 anyway...which ALSO took at least a few episodes to find it's feet).
The only two gripes I've seen that are valid IMO are the gratuitous slathering scene (not unappreciated, but pretty obvious. My god, no wonder we like the Vulcans!) and the points about putting spoiler comments on the front page before it aired. Rather provincial mistake, really.
The rest of you, cripes, give it a season or two. Let some of the characters' personalities gell a little, and let some chemistry develop. They may even change the theme music. I think it was a fine pilot, given the circumstances, no matter how "disappointed" some
-Styopa
If you don't want to get spoiling, why the heck do you continue reading after "tonight's enterprise episode, first reactions" ? I don't get it, why do people bitch about that, you KNOW what's comming.... I didn't see the episode *I* wanted to see people's reaction, so I am happy about it, if I wouldn't want to read anything about it, I'd just skip it.
:)
:)
Bitching for bitching is lame, okay bitching against the people bitching isn't any better, but can someone actually explain in a Vulcan way (logic heh) what's the problem with that?
sheesh
oh and the letters in the topic are for your own imagination, you probably guessed the F right though
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
What I am complaining about is the spoiler info on the Slashdot opening homepage. As I said with movies spoiler stuff is inside after you click the link and there are even warnings saying so. You know, little messages like "caution: spoilers ahead" Slashdot does this when reviewing movies for people who haven't seen the movie yet. I was only suggesting the same thing should be done for series premiers like this as well. In order to not see that "commander whatchamacallit has no personality" and some other stuff I tried to avoid reading I would have to avert my eyes before I scroll down or maybe just not visit Slashdot until after Saturday.
Here's what I liked:
Vulcan vs. Human interactions: The pilot had a nice twist by pitting the two races together on a governmental level where representatives of each could display their predjudice, mistrust, and fear of each other. This was perfectly believable. As insufferable as the rather pretentious and overprotective vulcans are and as impulsive and basically untrustworthy as humans are, I'm surprised the two never ended up in a war on opposite sides. Obviously the vulcan / human thing has been overdone in the past but it was always on a mano y mano level , never at the level of governments maneuvering for control of a situation.
The tribute to green (and other coloured) Orion slave girls: Remembering Christopher Pike's Talos induced vision of a visit to Rigel's slave markets was a nice touch.
I didn't think the disinfectant scene was too pr0nish... To me, it actually seemed as if the director had vague arty pretensions and thought the sensuality of the scene, mixed with the harsh dialogue, would create a lovely bit of dissonance. I think he almost succeeded in this effect.
I really liked the joy these ship-board geeks found in their technology, such as "warp 4.5!" or the sweet spot. TOS had a similar love of technology but the later series seemed to lose their joy in what could be done and what the possibilities are.
I like that the characters finally have a measure of humanity. They're occasionally noble, often shortsighted, easily amused and excited, sometimes brave, usually susceptible to blind predjudice, quarrelsome, hypocritical, and driven by baser instincts they usually dont try to understand. This is a return to the happier days of TOS when (wo)men were (wo)men and even when Kirk would give a sanctimonious speech about his / Federation ideals at the end of an episode, you could hardly forget that he spent the bulk of the episode violating almost every single one of the Federation's sacred beliefs and rules. That sort of willful inconsistency and hypocrisy is typical of almost every human who has held any sort of real power. That is how people would really act, not as the insufferable, always correct robot that was Picard / Janeway. Most leaders will always have more Shatner than Stewart in them. For example Bush's line: "We value our freedom and we value America. That's why we're going to ban any real encryption because freedom is a wonderful thing." could have just as easily been spoken by Kirk in some vague defense of the Prime Directive after he topples a planet's leader and sleeps with all the green and lavender women with iron brassieres he could grab.
Ranting aside, its nice to see the Ugly American in space again.
I think this was the best ST pilot since The Cage and the dark few first minutes of DS9. It wasn't great sci-fi but I think it'll have half a chance if the writers can resist the urge for preachiness.
Am I the only onwe that thinks it's kinda of sad that this got +5, iformative?
Quite possibly. I can't think why anyone else would find it sad that link to pictures of the hot chick from the new star trek serries got modded informative.
I was informed. How is that sad? Surely pictures of Jolene Blalock aren't sad!
___
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. --Ben Franklin
It inspired people. It infuriated people. Diplomats complained and complemented. People cared. It mattered.
"Enterprise" will be followed in my area by Chicago(?) police officers blowing up the local bad-guy aliens. If Voyager and the first episode are any guides, it will be a toss-up which will be more socially and technologically intriguing. The aliens will have less variety than one finds among humans in downtown LA. The technology... will look like an inspired 1960's vision of the future. This seems so very sad.
Might one do another "Star Trek" today? The original required continuously fighting the network suits, and spending through the nose for the special effects needed just to make every-day surroundings work. So "the studio _is_ the network" doesn't help. I fuzzily recall the DS9 director(?) saying some of his interesting stuff was only possible because the suits were off focused on Voyager. Voyager. I could live with moralizing, but it would be nice to get at least "harassed at airport" level thought behind it, rather than say "drunk homeless person" rantings. Ah well. But imagine, what would a new ST look like? Assuming the same basic "socially-and-technically-inspired cowboys in space" telling somewhat thoughtful stories?
Well, you need someone who can tell stories. West Wing has what's-his-name. TOS had several people. As for the social and technical...
Start anywhere. Dynamic organization rather than rigid hierarchy. A tight team acting as one, rather than "we run our sub with 18-year olds, so everything is explicit and verbose". A cast of people with deep and varied skills, rather than a couple of "I can do everything"s. People with intelligence, insight and wisdom, who make you think "gosh, what a neat perspective", rather than "god, how mindlessly stupid". Communication, coordination, planning, politics.
Walk the taboos - nudity, physical contact, backrubs, grooming, sex, social groupings, marriage, appearance. Religion - discussion of, high-profile belief in, disbelief. Push the envelope on race, class, caste, age young and old, pretty and ugly, fit and not, intelligence exceptional and impaired. Our changing humanness - delegating intelligence to the environment, genetic mods, non-biological component integration, symbiots.
Technically, if it is already being prototyped now, it's pretty silly to ignore it. Pervasive computing. Intelligence augmentation. Pervasive robotics, varied and autonomous, and active environments. Wide-band user interfaces with gesture, voice, VR, holography, force feedback, face and tone interpretation, task understanding, etc. Walk though the MIT Media Lab, and grab everything interesting. Read DARPA's current request for proposals.
Yes it would require work. Just doing zero-g in a shirt sleeve environment is a big pain. But it doesn't seem like ST is even trying any more. Perhaps that's ok, and Paramount is just mining out the last interest in a 1960's vision. I saw someone argue that the only problem with Voyager was that DS9 existed, which "divided the demographic". Perhaps. But that's not why I don't think of it as Star Trek. We can do better. Yes?
(Hmm, Neptune in 10 minutes means a light-hour per minute, so about a light-year per week. I hope they brought board games.)
It was a better premiere episode than I expected. I mean, there's only *so much* you can do when you assemble a bunch of actors in an ensemble show like the ST series' and make them act before they fit with each other and their characters. No ST series has ever had a real all-encompassing central character--you have the captain as the "hub" but all the other characters are just as important to the feel of the series. That's something that always set ST apart from most other TV shows--that it's a true ensemble production.
;-)
The same is true of the writers. The writers have to know the characters and know how the actors fit into their characters' shoes (or bodysuits, in the case of 7 and the Vulcan chick...hehe...). This means by definition that both the writing and the acting in the first season of a ST series are not going to be up to par. It takes time for the actors, the characters, and the writers to all "mesh" well.
That's why I was pleasantly surprised by the passable story and acting. It's better than the first few episodes of any other ST series. It's promising.
I especially like hearkening back to the old TOS rough-and-tumble attitudes. That's something a lot of people forget--that Roddenberry set out to write a "Wagon Train to the Stars," a sort of Western set in deep space. In that respect shows like Babylon 5 and even Andromeda (yuck--sorry, but--yuck) and of course Farscape have been far closer to the concept of TOS than any of the newer ST series have been. So despite the bitching thus far, I think Roddenberry would have been very happy with this episode and with the potential of this series.
Not that there's anything wrong with the world of TNG and DS9 and even Voyager (80% of the episodes were "good enough" in the last 2 seasons, so wuite yer bitching)--as a geek I love the technobabble and the idea of having such an advanced technological framework. I love the wormholes and tachyon beams and especialy the episodes involving quantum mechanics. But there's also nothing wrong with returning to ST's shoot-from-the-hip roots. Especially since it got to a point where many average folks couldn't watch ST--my grandmother for instance was a smart woman, but she never understood half of the technical stuff they were saying and so after loyally watching TOS and then TNG for 30 years she gave up. This is a chance to recapture those people.
That said, I agree with what so many have said--the opening music has to go. What the FUCK were they thinking? I didn't know whether to laugh or scream. What they should have done and what they can still do is have Scott Bakula read off the a variation of the old standard, "Space, the final frontier..." They could reasonably inster a few anachronisms, like calling it the "spaceship Enterprise" instead of the "starship Enterprise" and such. Because, that opening music alone is enough to alienate most or the current ST fanbase, who'll view it as a sign that the show is catering to a certain uneducated demographic alone.
And finally, as for the tits--why complain? As long as the stories are good, the tits are just a bonus. How can any man woman or child with a pulse complain? I mean, did you SEE those things in the rubdown scene? Those nipples were like two stiff warp nacelles, boldly jutting out where every man would love to go...
Now excuse me while I go jerk off to the thought of a borgalicious lesbian encounter between 7 of 9 and that Vulcan chick. Mmmm, now *where* did she just put that tricorder???
Chasing Amy
(We all chase Amy...)
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws"-Tacitus
Yeah, after he rescued the Klingon, and was wondering around the base I kept expecting this scene:
"Al, why haven't I leaped yet? Ziggy said I was here to save that Klingon guy, right?"
"Hmm... Ziggy says there's now a 73% chance that you need to set up a nemesis for future episodes first.... Or maybe you're supposed to do that Vulcan chick. It's a little hazy. (Do you see the set on her? Yowza!)"
First off, scenes with any human rubbing ANYthing on ANY Vulcan's skin are totally ridiculous. Vulcans are TOUCH TELEPATHS. They are beings of calm reserve and inner discipline, and they can't tolerate being physically touched by emotional and uncontrolled beings like humans. It leads to telepathic overflow of human emotional garbage, thus Vulcans avoid ALL physical (skin to skin) contact with humans as if it were the PLAGUE. It is ungodly bad manners to shake hands with a Vulcan, or even offer to. Rubbing your hands over a Vulcan's naked body could only happen AFTER you overpowered or drugged them. Or during Pon Farr. Take your pick.
Secondly, I don't see where you get off with that crack about "prejudice, intolerance, and violence" in TOS. I *assume* you meant to say "pleasantly surprised by the extremely low level of (etc., etc., etc.)", seeing as how THAT is the only possible analogy to TOS. Devil in the Dark? The Empath? The Corbomite Maneuver? Yep, all sorts of prejudice, intolerance, and violence there. Suuuuuure. Yeah. Riiiiiiight.
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
I was watching at a friend's house, and her parents came home at exactly the same moment they walked into the bar with the pole dancers. Bleh.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
If you're feeling aargh
Or you're kind of mwhahahahahaha
Could be you've met up with BAKULA.
If your crew goes moan, moan
And your guns go pssewp pssewp
Maybe you've bumped into BAKULA.
He flies through the night
In a costume that's too tight
But there's always a moral insight
BAKULA
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
In the shows thus far, Vulcans have been friends of Earth, respected, and mostly liked. As Data said in ST:TNG "Vulcans are a highly respect race." The tension between Humans and Vulcans were the differences between two friends who respect each other but go about things in a very different way. Kirk and Spock were of significantly different temperaments, but they were brothers-in-arms.
In Enterprise the relationship is quite different. Vulcans consider themselves superior. Humans, while resenting it, have unfortunately allowed themselves to slip into that role for several generations. Now the Human race is emerging from adolescence into adulthood and the Vulcans are having a hard time dealing with that.
Overall, I thought that element of the story worked quite well.
Miko O'Sullivan
Bakula, doesn't have, the proper spacing between words, or emphasis to be JTK!
Best Slashdot Co
Can we please not bastardize everything in existence just to make a few whiners happy?
Ok, mod me down, I'm not PC
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
As for the soft porn, the original show wasn't exactly lacking that either. What straight male over thirty hasn't had fond thoughts of the green chick in The Menagerie? That was racy stuff back then. The difference is that Menagerie and the rest of the original series had some class. They didn't just say "OK, how are we gonna get them naked? How about a disinfectant scene where they 'have' to rub each other down?"
Enterprise seems to have recaptured the spirit of the original show, if not the intelligence and class.
Miko O'Sullivan
Why not use Babylon 5 as an example of good acting? With the exceptions of Picard and Spock, there's never been a character on any Star Trek "franchise" that was half as interesting as G'Kar, Londo, Sheridan, Ivanova, Delenn, or Garibaldi.
The minor characters were great too. Lennier could get more across with one look than the typical Trek character could with an entire scene of their hand-wringing monologues. Even the recurring guest characters on B5 were far beyond the regulars on a Trek show. Who could forget Lord Reefa or Mr. Morden or the Emperor Cartagia?
Sinclair was wooden in a cheesy fashion, but it seemed to work for him, the same way Kirk's cheesiness ultimately made for a more interesting character. The only actor on B5 that I found really bad was the the red-headed telepath. Can't remember he name off-hand. Lyta, maybe? Zack was pretty bad too, but still likable.
Redundancy
*Sigh* Now I'll probably get modded down as "redundant"
Enigma
There's no reason to expect that spaceship fights would turn out any different.
There's a huge difference. The mass ratio between a missile and your plane is on the order of what, 1/100? On a spaceship you'll easily be 1000x that ratio. Moving a 3 ton missile vs a 300,000 ton spaceship is going to be a LOT easier to do, especially if you don't have scifi tech (or the ability to ignore physics) like inertial dampeners or omnidirectional phasers. But even in sci-fi you'd be much better off to launch a pile of missiles that can maneuver and travel 10x faster than you can to get there, and it's much more difficult to shoot them down. Plus you _can_ launch them from several light-second distances, which makes dogfights impossible anyways, even if you had omnidirectional lasers. Additionally space is much much bigger than what you can get in the air here, with no obligation to get close to your enemy.
And if you don't have scifi abilities, then you're most likely going to be stuck with a laser (or something) cannon, which won't be omnidirectional, thus requiring you to either move your ship or the laser around, which won't be fast. Plus at several light second distances, you won't be able to target your enemies anyways.
Modern day aircraft fights are
a) sensors/radar detect enemy fighters on approach
b) fighters scrambled
c) fighters lock on and fire missiles far out of range of sight (5+km away)
d) either your ECM works and you're ok, your missiles hit them and you win, or their missiles get you and you're dead. Either way the other party goes home, or mops up the mess.
If God gave us curiosity
Interesting idea.
... emulating the appearance of those who had bested them by a minority through plastic surgery or genetic manipulation. The majority of klingons would consider this a perversion of the highest order, but if that minority had been in a position of political power or influence that would explain their frequent contact with the federation during Kirk's tenure, only to be eradicated once more traditional klingons seized back control of the council at some later date.
Perhaps it was a social/religious reaction to losing a war with humans
This would be similar to a religious group of Kzin (Ringworld, Ringworld Engineers, Throne of Ringworld, et al, by Larry Niven) who believed that humans were favored by the Gods, and so cloaked themselves in the skin of dead humans in an effort to decieve the Gods long enough to win a war and conquer earth. Said religion was of course ruthlessly suppressed by the establishment, but that didn't prevent some highly placed Kzin from practicing it and/or believing it at some deep level (e.g. Speaker-to-Animals, later Chmee).
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
think back... WAAAAAAY back...
T'Pol, the most decorated Vulcan of all time. T'Pol, who helped her (son? relation of some sort) Sarek become an Ambassador to Earth, where he met and married a human, to the chagrine of his Vulcan brethren, who later gave birth to a son they named Spock.
T'Pol is the head of Spock's family. Something tells me that Enterprise is going to be showing ALOT of backstory.
And I liked the opening sequence visuals. Showing all the REAL Enterprise ships, and the timeline of human exploration was quite nice.
~Donald
~Donald / Just RTFM
I find it personally and professionally offensive that you would mention Star Trek and Windows in the same sentence.
This sentence pretty much defines the term "geek."
Let's see. Several "watershed" events have been mucked with and subtly (or not so subtly) altered by time travelling Feds.
:-)
Commander Cisco in the Mid 21st had to usurp the role of a historical figure after said figure was killed defending him in a random street brawl. While he got history back on track, clearly it wasn't perfectly back on track, something Star Fleet noticed (his picture in the history books) and had some pointed questions about.
Captain Piccard and the Borg mucked with humans' first contact with vulcans, and while they were able to get out of the way (for the most part) and let history take its course once the Borg were defeated, it is likely some residue of the battle(s) would have been noticed by the vulcans' science sensors. This could well have led to vulcans being more cautious in their dealings with humans, delaying our exuberant expansion into space and perhaps preventing some of the historical mistakes in the original timeline, such as the Romulan Wars and the botched Klingon first contact (and resulting war).
Of course, the new timeline would encounter all kinds of new mistakes not present in the original history.
An interesting subject for late-night beer-soaked conversation fodder is the resiliance of the timeline, that despite historical changes (some significant) the timeline restores itself in large part. But, like any natural chaotic system, there are points where minor changes can have radical, irrevocable changes that completely alter the timeline, while other areas exhibit more stability and even major changes have relatively little long term effect on the historical outcome.
Theories might include the futility of killing hitler because social inertia would have led to the holocaust in any event (perhaps even under a different historical figure named hitler, as the last name was very common in Germany at the time), versus the idea of bumping into hitler in a cafe in Vienna years earlier, causing him to miss a fateful confrontation with a Jewish merchant that would solidified his anti-semetic attitudes and preventing an entire world war through a simple change in timing.
Extreme stability ("fate") vs. extreme instability. Of course, I think the most interesting theories of time travel involve a combination of the two, reflective of other chaotic systems known in nature where, under the right conditions and at the right time, a butterfly's wings can effect distant weather but under other conditions or times no amount of effort can have any effect on the advance of a storm. Some moments in history are as fragile as a soap bubble, while others as resiliant as bungie cord.
Of course, the advantage of such a hybrid theory of temporal mechanics (semi-chaotic temporal systems) is that it gives radical poetic license to writers of shows like star trek, and allows numerous consistency errors to correct themselves.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Your five year old boy can't watch two clothed beings applying bengay to each other?
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Trek seems to be de-evolving into soft porn
Gee - how come everyone seems to have forgotten how much T and A there was in TOS? There were silicone enhanced babes on every planet, and except for token episodes for the rest of the cast, Kirk all but fornicated with them every week.
I remember reading The Making of Star Trek as a teen, and I am reminded of the part about how the TOS producers and NBC censors were continually arguing about how far they could go. In fact there was one particular passage about how NBC had a rule that you could not show the underside of a breast, as if they thought moss grew under there or something.
I can see the fnords!