Info on the New iPAQ H3800

Jason Dunn sent us to a link on his site about the new new iPaq which is due out relatively soon. Aesthetic changes, more memory, and I assume Linux will run on it as well or better then the existing models.

Comments

A tad too much?

[smaughster]

A very cool tool, but looking at the specs, I got the feeling that everything has been added because it can, not because it could be useful for a PDA. I mean: a 5 button joystick interface? If they would have integrate cell-phone functionality, then this would really rock. Anyone got any ideas on how long such a battery will last without recharging?

Re:A tad too much?

[Russ Nelson]

No, trust me, you really *do* want 64MB ram and 32MB flash. By the time you put Linux in a 16MB flash, you only have 2MB left for applications.

And the 5 button joypad is needed to play gsoko.
-russ

Re:A tad too much?

[larien]

The 32MB flash is a requirement for Pocket PC 2002; you can fit it on an iPaq 3630/3660, but if you do, you have to install the Media player and some other software into the RAM.

Personally, I'm finding the 32MB RAM in my 3630 adequate for my needs; I'm not using it to lug around dozens of images or large documents, after all! Remember, even new-ish Palms only have around 8MB, although I imagine that Palm apps must be smaller.

As for the joystick, I only use it for qtris :)

Re:close, but no cigar...

[onion2k]

Point 1: Bluetooth IS wireless connectivity.

Point 2: The new iPaq has bluetooth.

RTFA.

Runs QNX as well?

[Leif_Bloomquist]

Presumably, QNX will run on these as well? I guess if you can install Linux, QNX will go on as well. Hopefully the QNX install process with be easier than the Linux one.

Never assume... (and other comments)

[Uttles]

... because it makes an ass out of "u" and me.
Seriously though, why do you assume it will be designed to run Linux better? I'm just curious as I read the information and all it mentioned was Windows.

Also, I don't like this spec:
The H3800 Series combines USB, serial, and power into a single connector. Earlier H3000 Series Pocket PCs have separate USB/Serial and power connectors.
Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the UNIVERSAL serial bus? I thought the great thing about USB is that as long as you have a USB port you can plug in any USB device. Now you have to make sure you have their special connector to access the USB port...

Otherwise, it looks pretty cool, if it does run Linux well I may have to get one!

Re:Never assume... (and other comments)

[Drakino]

Most digital cameras, and MP3 players don't use a standard USB connector on the device side either, due to it not being small enough. It's always a standard USB plug on the other side though, so it's not a big issue. The iPaq has that one connector on the bottom that gets split out into power and USB, or power and Serial depending on what cradle you use. (Or you can hack the USB cradle to have all three).

PDA: TNG?

[wiredog]

Wired has an article on what Palm might be up to with Be. Interesting in light of this story.

Moans for casio...where's the decent graphics?

[dasmegabyte]

I'm a proud owner of a Cassiopeia E-100, the first colour handheld ever. It's aging quite nicely -- the processor is only 133 MHz, but that's MIPS and not this cheap-slow-crunches-x86-code-easily StrongARM BS that looks nice on benchmarks but can't feed graphics to save its life. The problem is that the E-100 is stuck in time, there's not really much development going on for Windows CE 2.11 and the developers who used to give us a hand-me-down build when compiling for 3.0 usually just blow us off entirely. Some of the new graphics APIs, which don't really have a parellel in Pocket Linux are very swift and are allowing handhelds to really blow up the market with features like full motion video, great VNC support, and really bitchin' audio interfaces.

What, say those of you still stuck in the dark ages of the "i can do anything a pencil and paper can do, only 500 times more expensive" PalmOS, why would you want motion video? Well, because it's terribly useful for making a lot of the things you want a palmtop for more descriptive. Take, for example, the latest topographical software that comes with TopoUSA (a maptech product I think). It can display a 3d gradient of an area. Not too useful? I beg to differ. There have been a number of times up in the 'dacks where I've bivouaced up a mountain and come down on the totally wrong side. I can't read contour lines for shit, because I don't have a degree in geography. With the isometric view that this topo software provides, i could just input the direction i was facing, and scroll until the terrain matched what I was seeing (no, GPS wouldn't be useful here, because it would be at least ten meters off...and in a land of overgrown trails and thousand foot cliffs, ten meters is a lot). There are lots of other uses for a decent graphics API, too, such as video conferencing and web browsing.

However, this new iPaq still has the same crummy 12 bit downsampled (meaning that the proc takes time to shave off the extra 4 bits) screen as its predessors. So while the processor is faster, the display (which is the biggest bottleneck, pocketpcpassion.com had a benchmark showing that even the E-100 could beat the 32 meg iPaq to the screen using the old graphics APIs) is slow as it ever was. Kind of a shame, considering all the features...like putting a big engine, big gas tank, great stereo, leather seats, GPS and handheld telephone into a nice little lightweight chassis, and then gearing it for torque.

Re:Moans for casio...where's the decent graphics?

[hattig]

It's aging quite nicely -- the processor is only 133 MHz, but that's MIPS and not this cheap-slow-crunches-x86-code-easily StrongARM BS that looks nice on benchmarks but can't feed graphics to save its life

Erm, the StrongARM is not x86. It is ARM, an extremely nice and powerful RISC ISA. Typically graphics performance will depend on what graphics chip is used in a device, and how much 2D accelleration it has. I bet that a 206MHz StrongARM (old technology now as well) can crush a 133MHz embedded MIPs processor any day of the week...

The more pertinent question is: when will the iPaq and other devices start to use the even faster and lower power XScale processors that are ARM compatible?

Re:Moans for casio...where's the decent graphics?

[alhaz]

oh yeah and xscale is strongarm. It just has better power consumption, more instructions, but yes you were right there not ready yet. i've heard q1 2002 from intels press releases and such. damn man read shit before spouting your mouth off like an ass.

The XScale is lower *voltage, but that does not mean it is lower *power.

The XScale is SIMILAR internally to a strongarm but it is NOT a strongarm. It does NOT have integrated io & periopherals like a strongarm and it's companion io chipset has things in it that are INSANE for palm style devices, like a friggin PCI bus!

For pete's sake, man, the 80310 evaluation board runs at an ambient temperature of 60c, and rquires heatsinks if the temperature inside the case rises above 90c! A strongarm runs COLD. It needs fewer VOLTS but it's dissipating more WATTS of power as HEAT than the SA1110 even draws!

The SA1110 is perfect for palm-type devices because it has integrated USB, integrated serial, integrated LCD controller, integrated sound, integrated pcmcia, and a bunch of other bits & pieces that the XScale does NOT have. And neither does the IO companion chip. When you get all those components on a board together, it's going to need a LOT more juice than a little bubblegum stick of lithium polymer is going to put out.

You will probably see XScale cpus in hand held data terminals, mini-notebooks, and that ilk, but you're never going to see it in something like an ipaq. Get over the hype already. Even though there's a picture of a handheld in the marketing literature, it was designed for other applications.

Re:This isn't a troll, just a question...

[larien]

Never crashes? Dunno about Pocket PC 2002, but I've seen an iPaq 3630 get hosed with itself such that I couldn't start up Contacts. A soft reset cured that, though (i.e. a reboot).

As for why use linux, well:

• Because you can. Some people will try and run linux on everything that has a CPU and RAM. :) It's a geek thing, I think...
• Custom uses; here you have nicely packaged hardware with a reasonable amount of RAM (go back 2-3 years and 64MB was a privilege!); I'm sure you could develop some good custom utilities that require portability (e.g. stock inventories in a warehouse). Using linux allows a custom kernel to be deployed making such tools more efficient (hopefully!) and/or making integration with an existing linux/Unix infrastructure easier. That said, many tools could simply be deployed as Pocket PC apps.

Your point about being custom made is good, though. I bought mine as a PDA, not as a mobile computing platform. All I need is something to sync up contacts and calender info and the ability to browse the web using IR and a GSM phone. Pocket PC 3.0 lets me do this quite happily with Outhouse (not my choice; company standard) at work.

Contour maps

[wiredog]

I can't read contour lines for shit, because I don't have a degree in geography

Wow! I didn't realize that my 8 weeks in Army Basic Training qualified me for a degree in geography!

Seriously, it just takes practice to learn map reading. A lensatic compass helps alot. Up in the mountains is not the place to learn, do it in the foothills. The big advantages of a map and a compass for hiking is that they don't require batteries, and you can drop them without breaking them.

Re:Battery life...

[Drakino]

Battery capacity in the new iPaq is higher (1400 mAh compaired to I believe 900 in the older iPaqs.)

Also, I saw over on Brighthand.coms fourms that someone offers a battery replacement service for the iPaq. One was with a 2100mAh battery.

Honestly though, on my iPaq 3630, the battery life has been fine. It sits in it's cradle and charges while I sync it. Wasn't a huge deal when I traveled either. Brought the AC adaptor (instead of extra batteries), and just plugged it in when I got the battery warning after about 3-5 days. I was doing the same for my cell phone, so whats the difference?

I played around with this...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am working in a Project which uses loads of iPaqs, thats why Compaq invited me and my project collegues to their stand at the Swiss Orbit-Expo on Thuesday to get a demo of the new iPaq. (They told us that there are only 3 of those iPaqs in europe, and I guess they had to, since this was a VIP event :)

Here is what I found:
First off the new design is really cute, and the integrated card slot is also very practical, which brings me to the first negative point. Why did they introduce a new card format? (I mean besides the cash, and probably license fees they will get)
The screen hasn't improved much as far as I could see, but as you may know, the screen was already very sharp and very bright, actually one of the best screens on PDAs over all.
The new MS OS running on that iPaq was all smooth and anti-aliased, kept in the typical XP style, which itself is of course kept really close to the OS X aqua GUI ;)
I had the impression that the overall system speed has also somewhat improved.

What they didn't fix is the fact that the iPaq still does a factory reset when power goes out. Just like a Palm, but my Palm runs over 5 weeks before he does so. And also the iPaq doesn't turn the screen of, say 10 minutes in advance, which would save the RAM contents for some days I guess. OTOH they did include 32 MB of ROM, which makes is possible to install more apps in the ROM.

The GPRS-Tri-Band jacket which is also brand new, looks like a really nice thing to have if you travel a lot, it gives you "gsm connectivity in virtually any gsm networks on this planet" according to compaq. I think this is pretty much the case, except for some African Networks. Only the price was relatively high, it costs about 550 $ (850.- SFr).
You use it on the back side, there are integrated mics and speakers on there. This makes sense if you don't need to know how your ears look when pressed upon a glass surface. And of course you would hit buttons on the touchscreen while phoning.

They also made a little but vital change to the pen, its now completly round so can put it in either way, unlike with the current models where putting the pen in the wrong way can result in a pen stuck in an iPaq.

Oh, yeah, almost forgot, they have really good coffee and croisants at their stand.

don't buy an iPaq for Linux

[mj6798]

The iPaqs make nice Linux machines, but the business divisions of Compaq just don't support this. The installation process is a lot of work and you may end up having to send the iPaq back to the factory to be restored. And as long as people keep buying the things with WinCE preinstalled, why should they bother?

If you want Linux on a PDA, why not buy a Linux PDA? The Agenda VR is a decent, very compact Linux PDA, and there are several others. And HP has announced a Jornada based on Linux.