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Info on the New iPAQ H3800

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the hardware-to-lust-after dept.

Jason Dunn sent us to a link on his site about the new new iPaq which is due out relatively soon. Aesthetic changes, more memory, and I assume Linux will run on it as well or better then the existing models.

36 of 130 comments (clear)

  1. Bluetooth for $750, PCMCIA $150, 802.11 $100 by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 2

    Gee, that sure sounds like a thousand dollar pda to me. But why do you want both bluebooth AND wireless connectivity??
    -russ

    --
    Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    1. Re:Bluetooth for $750, PCMCIA $150, 802.11 $100 by turbine216 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      picture this...

      a PDA that takes ALSO functions as my mobile phone. I've been longing for it for years. The bluetooth functionality, while not necessary, would allow me to use a wireless headset or earpiece...much better than the current hybrid PDA/cell phones, which basically force you to hold the freakin' PDA up to your face (generally not very accomodating).

      The wireless capability would not necessarily have to be 802.11...it could be 3G wireless CDMA or something of that nature. I'm looking for TOTAL voice/data connection, in a fully mobile environment.

    2. Re:Bluetooth for $750, PCMCIA $150, 802.11 $100 by CodeMonky · · Score: 2

      Cisco has this sorta.
      They've gotten an ipaq with a wireless network card to act as a phone on a VOIP networkby loading some software on the ipaq (duh).

      --
      --"Karma is justice without the satisfaction"
  2. A tad too much? by smaughster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A very cool tool, but looking at the specs, I got the feeling that everything has been added because it can, not because it could be useful for a PDA. I mean: a 5 button joystick interface? If they would have integrate cell-phone functionality, then this would really rock. Anyone got any ideas on how long such a battery will last without recharging?

    --
    I intend to live forever, so far so good.
    1. Re:A tad too much? by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, trust me, you really *do* want 64MB ram and 32MB flash. By the time you put Linux in a 16MB flash, you only have 2MB left for applications.

      And the 5 button joypad is needed to play gsoko.
      -russ

      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    2. Re:A tad too much? by larien · · Score: 3, Informative
      The 32MB flash is a requirement for Pocket PC 2002; you can fit it on an iPaq 3630/3660, but if you do, you have to install the Media player and some other software into the RAM.

      Personally, I'm finding the 32MB RAM in my 3630 adequate for my needs; I'm not using it to lug around dozens of images or large documents, after all! Remember, even new-ish Palms only have around 8MB, although I imagine that Palm apps must be smaller.

      As for the joystick, I only use it for qtris :)

  3. Re:close, but no cigar... by onion2k · · Score: 3, Informative

    Point 1: Bluetooth IS wireless connectivity.

    Point 2: The new iPaq has bluetooth.

    RTFA.

    --
    http://twitter.com/onion2k
  4. 802.11 Biznatch by gsoli · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, I would definitely love to see some 802.11b in there, especially now that they have the technology down to the size of a CF card. BUT... it's a bit understandable, since 802.11a products are coming out (supposedly) this winter. It makes sense for Compaq to wait until 802.11a technology is small enough to fit in an iPaq PocketPC. There are many enterprises waiting for the 5GHz stuff to come out. At any rate, why do we have to always wait for the cool stuff!?!?!

    1. Re:802.11 Biznatch by DeathBunny · · Score: 2

      If you don't mind making your IPaq quite a bit bigger, you can get a piggyback module that accepts PCMCIA cards. One of the guys I work with has a PCMCIA 802.11b network card on his IPaq. It's pretty cool. He can roam around the office and still get e-mail, surf, whatever.

    2. Re:802.11 Biznatch by shaka · · Score: 2, Informative

      Check out The Gismo, an addon for the iPaq which provides you with GSM, GPRS and WLAN (802.11b).
      Oh, and did I mention it's developed by my company?

      --
      :wq!
  5. Runs QNX as well? by Leif_Bloomquist · · Score: 4, Informative

    Presumably, QNX will run on these as well? I guess if you can install Linux, QNX will go on as well. Hopefully the QNX install process with be easier than the Linux one.

  6. Never assume... (and other comments) by Uttles · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... because it makes an ass out of "u" and me.
    Seriously though, why do you assume it will be designed to run Linux better? I'm just curious as I read the information and all it mentioned was Windows.

    Also, I don't like this spec:
    The H3800 Series combines USB, serial, and power into a single connector. Earlier H3000 Series Pocket PCs have separate USB/Serial and power connectors.
    Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the UNIVERSAL serial bus? I thought the great thing about USB is that as long as you have a USB port you can plug in any USB device. Now you have to make sure you have their special connector to access the USB port...

    Otherwise, it looks pretty cool, if it does run Linux well I may have to get one!

    --

    ~ now you know
    1. Re:Never assume... (and other comments) by Drakino · · Score: 3, Informative

      Most digital cameras, and MP3 players don't use a standard USB connector on the device side either, due to it not being small enough. It's always a standard USB plug on the other side though, so it's not a big issue. The iPaq has that one connector on the bottom that gets split out into power and USB, or power and Serial depending on what cradle you use. (Or you can hack the USB cradle to have all three).

    2. Re:Never assume... (and other comments) by uradu · · Score: 2

      The fact still remains that a USB B socket is rather fattish for a slender PDA. And so far it doesn't seem that a smaller B connector analogous to the 4-wire 1394 connector is emerging for USB, although that might be a GOOD THING in the long run. Many device manufacturers can't let go of the desire to also make some side money with proprietary cables.

  7. PDA: TNG? by wiredog · · Score: 5, Informative

    Wired has an article on what Palm might be up to with Be. Interesting in light of this story.

    --

    Best Slashdot Co
    1. Re:PDA: TNG? by uradu · · Score: 2

      They either could be up to something, or be performing their traditional organizational shuffle. Palm is the quintessential example of a company that saw a good thing and tried to run with it--but stood still just long enough for their feet to be firmly implanted in drying concrete. The Be acquisition could either be a sign of great things to come, or of aimless buying. I guess time will tell.

  8. The Illustration is all hosed. by Matey-O · · Score: 2, Redundant

    If you look at the descriptions, One illustration lists the hole on the upper left (correctly) as the earphone jack, the other lists it as the Bluetooth status indicator. And the '5 way' joystick is listed at the voice recorder button. (And what should be the voice recorder button is incorrectly listed as the ambient light sensor.)

    Looks like somebody was a little rushed to print.

    --
    "Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
    1. Re:The Illustration is all hosed. by mach-5 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Each position in the list is off by one, add one to the list item to get the proper number in the image.

  9. Moans for casio...where's the decent graphics? by dasmegabyte · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm a proud owner of a Cassiopeia E-100, the first colour handheld ever. It's aging quite nicely -- the processor is only 133 MHz, but that's MIPS and not this cheap-slow-crunches-x86-code-easily StrongARM BS that looks nice on benchmarks but can't feed graphics to save its life. The problem is that the E-100 is stuck in time, there's not really much development going on for Windows CE 2.11 and the developers who used to give us a hand-me-down build when compiling for 3.0 usually just blow us off entirely. Some of the new graphics APIs, which don't really have a parellel in Pocket Linux are very swift and are allowing handhelds to really blow up the market with features like full motion video, great VNC support, and really bitchin' audio interfaces.

    What, say those of you still stuck in the dark ages of the "i can do anything a pencil and paper can do, only 500 times more expensive" PalmOS, why would you want motion video? Well, because it's terribly useful for making a lot of the things you want a palmtop for more descriptive. Take, for example, the latest topographical software that comes with TopoUSA (a maptech product I think). It can display a 3d gradient of an area. Not too useful? I beg to differ. There have been a number of times up in the 'dacks where I've bivouaced up a mountain and come down on the totally wrong side. I can't read contour lines for shit, because I don't have a degree in geography. With the isometric view that this topo software provides, i could just input the direction i was facing, and scroll until the terrain matched what I was seeing (no, GPS wouldn't be useful here, because it would be at least ten meters off...and in a land of overgrown trails and thousand foot cliffs, ten meters is a lot). There are lots of other uses for a decent graphics API, too, such as video conferencing and web browsing.

    However, this new iPaq still has the same crummy 12 bit downsampled (meaning that the proc takes time to shave off the extra 4 bits) screen as its predessors. So while the processor is faster, the display (which is the biggest bottleneck, pocketpcpassion.com had a benchmark showing that even the E-100 could beat the 32 meg iPaq to the screen using the old graphics APIs) is slow as it ever was. Kind of a shame, considering all the features...like putting a big engine, big gas tank, great stereo, leather seats, GPS and handheld telephone into a nice little lightweight chassis, and then gearing it for torque.

    --
    Hey freaks: now you're ju
    1. Re:Moans for casio...where's the decent graphics? by Subliminal+Fusion · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not exactly true (at least if what I've heard is correct)

      http://www.wincecity.com/articles/2001/9/2001-9-19 -Compaq-Readying-New.html

      "The other device will join the H3800 line of handhelds. In addition to 64 MB of RAM this high end device will feature a Secure-Digital slot and an active matrix screen that supports 65,536 colors. One feature of the high end device that really intrigues me is that this device is expected to feature voice-command and voice-control software. The possibility of using speech to control a PDA will be a great addition."

      The 12-bit color is a slight turn-off, but the form factor of the ipaq has always killed the casiopeia, plus the ROM on the ipaq is upgradable (probably the biggest selling point for me as I have 2 pretty much obsolite CE 2.x devices).

    2. Re:Moans for casio...where's the decent graphics? by hattig · · Score: 3, Informative
      It's aging quite nicely -- the processor is only 133 MHz, but that's MIPS and not this cheap-slow-crunches-x86-code-easily StrongARM BS that looks nice on benchmarks but can't feed graphics to save its life

      Erm, the StrongARM is not x86. It is ARM, an extremely nice and powerful RISC ISA. Typically graphics performance will depend on what graphics chip is used in a device, and how much 2D accelleration it has. I bet that a 206MHz StrongARM (old technology now as well) can crush a 133MHz embedded MIPs processor any day of the week...

      The more pertinent question is: when will the iPaq and other devices start to use the even faster and lower power XScale processors that are ARM compatible?

    3. Re:Moans for casio...where's the decent graphics? by alhaz · · Score: 2

      It's aging quite nicely -- the processor is only 133 MHz, but that's MIPS and not this cheap-slow-crunches-x86-code-easily StrongARM BS

      Where did you get the impression that a StrongARM crunches x86 code at all? It can only execute ARMv4 code.

      I can personally guarantee that a 206mhz SA1110 runs circles around a 133mhz NEC Vr processor.

      The Casio may have a quicker LCD controller, but you definately get a lot more work done per Mhz on an ARMv4 cpu than a MIPSv4 cpu. I work with both archetectures all the time.

      However, this new iPaq still has the same crummy 12 bit downsampled (meaning that the proc takes time to shave off the extra 4 bits) screen as its predessors.

      What do you mean? The SA1110 lcd controller is addressable as a 16 bit display for convenience, but the LCD itself is only capable of displaying 12 bits. Just like your casio.

      Best I can guess, you're either a moron, or a troll, or someone who paid a lot of money for a cheezy mips handheld who has to then attack everything else in existance in order ot defend his expenditure.

      --
      This is just like television, only you can see much further.
    4. Re:Moans for casio...where's the decent graphics? by alhaz · · Score: 2

      The more pertinent question is: when will the iPaq and other devices start to use the even faster and lower power XScale processors that are ARM compatible?

      The XScale is much faster, but is not lower power (Actually draws much more power) and it is not designed for use in handhelds.

      For starters, it runs hot. StrongARM cpus do not.

      Then there's the matter of it not having integrated peripherals like a StrongARM.

      Oh, and did i mention that the XScale is not yet ready for primetime? Nobody seems to have an OS running stable on it yet.

      --
      This is just like television, only you can see much further.
    5. Re:Moans for casio...where's the decent graphics? by alhaz · · Score: 3, Informative

      oh yeah and xscale is strongarm. It just has better power consumption, more instructions, but yes you were right there not ready yet. i've heard q1 2002 from intels press releases and such. damn man read shit before spouting your mouth off like an ass.

      The XScale is lower *voltage, but that does not mean it is lower *power.

      The XScale is SIMILAR internally to a strongarm but it is NOT a strongarm. It does NOT have integrated io & periopherals like a strongarm and it's companion io chipset has things in it that are INSANE for palm style devices, like a friggin PCI bus!

      For pete's sake, man, the 80310 evaluation board runs at an ambient temperature of 60c, and rquires heatsinks if the temperature inside the case rises above 90c! A strongarm runs COLD. It needs fewer VOLTS but it's dissipating more WATTS of power as HEAT than the SA1110 even draws!

      The SA1110 is perfect for palm-type devices because it has integrated USB, integrated serial, integrated LCD controller, integrated sound, integrated pcmcia, and a bunch of other bits & pieces that the XScale does NOT have. And neither does the IO companion chip. When you get all those components on a board together, it's going to need a LOT more juice than a little bubblegum stick of lithium polymer is going to put out.

      You will probably see XScale cpus in hand held data terminals, mini-notebooks, and that ilk, but you're never going to see it in something like an ipaq. Get over the hype already. Even though there's a picture of a handheld in the marketing literature, it was designed for other applications.

      --
      This is just like television, only you can see much further.
    6. Re:Moans for casio...where's the decent graphics? by dasmegabyte · · Score: 2

      Acutally, turns out my 10 meters was liberal wishful thinking. Here's the straight poop from Garmin's website and FAQ:

      "With the end of Selective Availability, you can expect horizontal accuracy of 20m to 35m (60' to 105') for older 8 channel units and 7m to 15m (21' to 45') for newer 12 parallel channel units in good reception conditions. For altitude you can expect accuracy to range from +/- 75m (225') for an 8 channel unit and +/- 35m (105') for 12 parallel channel units in good reception conditions. There are a number of environmental conditions that can effect GPS accuracy due to varying satellite signal reception conditions and can therefore lead to better or worse accuracy's than listed above. The satellite status page on most GARMIN GPS units will provide a real-time estimate of the relative accuracy of the position reported by the GPS receiver. "

      So that's accurate within 7 meters if you have a good GPS (fucking expensive) and something more like 25m if you have a regular one. You call that accurate? When trying to find a three foot wide path in a heavily wooded area, knowing that I have between 49 and 625 square feet between where the device says I am and where I actually am is little comfort. In face, it's more what we in the software industry call "fucking useless."

      --
      Hey freaks: now you're ju
    7. Re:Moans for casio...where's the decent graphics? by dasmegabyte · · Score: 2

      Ok, this is useless. Stephen Wright has a joke about an existential map at a department store that said 'You are Here' all over it, and for our purposes "low resolution" is about the same. 30 meters is a lot...hell, 10 meters is a lot...and i'd much rather rely on my eye and a reference object than a measurement that tells me when I'm in a "zone".

      --
      Hey freaks: now you're ju
  10. Re:This isn't a troll, just a question... by larien · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Never crashes? Dunno about Pocket PC 2002, but I've seen an iPaq 3630 get hosed with itself such that I couldn't start up Contacts. A soft reset cured that, though (i.e. a reboot).

    As for why use linux, well:

    • Because you can. Some people will try and run linux on everything that has a CPU and RAM. :) It's a geek thing, I think...
    • Custom uses; here you have nicely packaged hardware with a reasonable amount of RAM (go back 2-3 years and 64MB was a privilege!); I'm sure you could develop some good custom utilities that require portability (e.g. stock inventories in a warehouse). Using linux allows a custom kernel to be deployed making such tools more efficient (hopefully!) and/or making integration with an existing linux/Unix infrastructure easier. That said, many tools could simply be deployed as Pocket PC apps.
    Your point about being custom made is good, though. I bought mine as a PDA, not as a mobile computing platform. All I need is something to sync up contacts and calender info and the ability to browse the web using IR and a GSM phone. Pocket PC 3.0 lets me do this quite happily with Outhouse (not my choice; company standard) at work.
  11. Contour maps by wiredog · · Score: 3, Funny
    I can't read contour lines for shit, because I don't have a degree in geography

    Wow! I didn't realize that my 8 weeks in Army Basic Training qualified me for a degree in geography!

    Seriously, it just takes practice to learn map reading. A lensatic compass helps alot. Up in the mountains is not the place to learn, do it in the foothills. The big advantages of a map and a compass for hiking is that they don't require batteries, and you can drop them without breaking them.

    --

    Best Slashdot Co
  12. Re:Battery life... by Drakino · · Score: 5, Informative

    Battery capacity in the new iPaq is higher (1400 mAh compaired to I believe 900 in the older iPaqs.)

    Also, I saw over on Brighthand.coms fourms that someone offers a battery replacement service for the iPaq. One was with a 2100mAh battery.

    Honestly though, on my iPaq 3630, the battery life has been fine. It sits in it's cradle and charges while I sync it. Wasn't a huge deal when I traveled either. Brought the AC adaptor (instead of extra batteries), and just plugged it in when I got the battery warning after about 3-5 days. I was doing the same for my cell phone, so whats the difference?

  13. I played around with this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    I am working in a Project which uses loads of iPaqs, thats why Compaq invited me and my project collegues to their stand at the Swiss Orbit-Expo on Thuesday to get a demo of the new iPaq. (They told us that there are only 3 of those iPaqs in europe, and I guess they had to, since this was a VIP event :)

    Here is what I found:
    First off the new design is really cute, and the integrated card slot is also very practical, which brings me to the first negative point. Why did they introduce a new card format? (I mean besides the cash, and probably license fees they will get)
    The screen hasn't improved much as far as I could see, but as you may know, the screen was already very sharp and very bright, actually one of the best screens on PDAs over all.
    The new MS OS running on that iPaq was all smooth and anti-aliased, kept in the typical XP style, which itself is of course kept really close to the OS X aqua GUI ;)
    I had the impression that the overall system speed has also somewhat improved.

    What they didn't fix is the fact that the iPaq still does a factory reset when power goes out. Just like a Palm, but my Palm runs over 5 weeks before he does so. And also the iPaq doesn't turn the screen of, say 10 minutes in advance, which would save the RAM contents for some days I guess. OTOH they did include 32 MB of ROM, which makes is possible to install more apps in the ROM.

    The GPRS-Tri-Band jacket which is also brand new, looks like a really nice thing to have if you travel a lot, it gives you "gsm connectivity in virtually any gsm networks on this planet" according to compaq. I think this is pretty much the case, except for some African Networks. Only the price was relatively high, it costs about 550 $ (850.- SFr).
    You use it on the back side, there are integrated mics and speakers on there. This makes sense if you don't need to know how your ears look when pressed upon a glass surface. And of course you would hit buttons on the touchscreen while phoning.

    They also made a little but vital change to the pen, its now completly round so can put it in either way, unlike with the current models where putting the pen in the wrong way can result in a pen stuck in an iPaq.

    Oh, yeah, almost forgot, they have really good coffee and croisants at their stand.

    1. Re:I played around with this... by dan.fitzgerald · · Score: 2, Informative
      Regarding the following:
      "Why did they introduce a new card format? (I mean besides the cash, and probably license fees they will get)"
      I think the SD card format is:
      1. not new, does not the Palm m50x have this?
      2. not a Compaq prop. technology (see above)
      Lastly, IMHO the SD cards are nice and small, allowing greater flexibility in device design without form factor restrictions inherent in the CF or PC Card specifications. [One day I hope to be able to plug one of thier (SD cards) predecessors directly into me!]
      --
      Dan FitzGerald Network Analyst and Wannabe Hacker KC0CZM (2m & 440 in NJ)
  14. 3 models by ryanr · · Score: 2

    Actually, if you click on the "buy it today" link in the article, it looks like there are 3 models to choose from, including one w/64K colors, and one w/64K colors and bluetooth.

    http://www.pocketpcfanatic.com/compaq.asp?REFERER= 84348

    (Note, the referer ID belongs to the pocketpcthoughts guy, not me.)

  15. Re:Battery life... by Klaruz · · Score: 2

    I agree, why do some pdas still use regular batts? Take a hint from the cell phone industry, put a high power batt in, and provide a charger. It works great for my motorolla timeport/startac phone. I just plug it in when I get home, or whip out the charger when I'm at a hotel, it's small and fits in my bags easily. The batts last about 2-3 days with moderate talk time usage. Seems like that's about the same length of time a pda lasts. Compared to a pda my cell phone probobly sucks batts like no tomorrow, but I rarely have a problem with it going dead.

  16. don't buy an iPaq for Linux by mj6798 · · Score: 3, Informative
    The iPaqs make nice Linux machines, but the business divisions of Compaq just don't support this. The installation process is a lot of work and you may end up having to send the iPaq back to the factory to be restored. And as long as people keep buying the things with WinCE preinstalled, why should they bother?

    If you want Linux on a PDA, why not buy a Linux PDA? The Agenda VR is a decent, very compact Linux PDA, and there are several others. And HP has announced a Jornada based on Linux.

  17. No Windows, please by magi · · Score: 2

    I'll buy an iPaq on the day it has Linux (or just the bootloader) preinstalled, and none of my money goes to a criminal organization. Even if that wasn't relevant, there's absolutely no sense in paying for software that you don't use and actually remove on the first day.

    Well, I might try the Agenda while waiting for the windowless iPaq. It's much cheaper, too.

    I remember that the iPaq Linux port had some problems with the deep sleep mode (APM stuff) earlier. I guess those have been corrected by now? It would be kind of silly to have a PDA which batteries only last 2 hours or so.

  18. Re:Do the B/W cheap ones run linux? by JesseL · · Score: 2

    The info is from handhelds.org about running linux on the 3100 series is here.

    --
    "Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"