Slashdot Mirror


CompTIA Adds Linux+ Certification

11 platter hard driv writes: "CompTIA (the Computing Technology Industry Association), the people who made the A+ and I-NET+ certifications, have made a Linux certification. I just received an e-mail a day or two ago that the test is out of beta. This seems pretty important seeing how CompTIA is non-vendor specific." Legions of PHBs and Kinko's nationwide look forward to the resulting resume changes.

140 comments

  1. LPI Anyone? by tarogue · · Score: 3, Informative

    LPI has been around longer, is also vendor non-specific, and has multiple levels of tests for various degrees of skill.

    --
    Life sucks, but death doesn't put out at all. -- Thomas J. Kopp
    1. Re:LPI Anyone? by Holger+Blasum · · Score: 1
      Yes. I wouldn't say that generally any test (same applicable for university diplomas) necessarily certifies very much but I found it very instructive (and in the long run rewarding) to spare some days for "purposeless" (as opposed to: "I have to get that damn thing running now") browsing through some HOWTOs and manpages.

      The readable (exception: objective 2) O'Reilly book on Level I could serve as course material for any linux instructors.

      Level II is calling for beta testers at the moment.

  2. I took the beta... by cansecofan22 · · Score: 3, Informative

    The test was a lot easier than the SAIR cert tests of the same level(Install and Config and Sys. Admin) but there were a lot more hardware specific questions (SCSi, LVD, RAID, Fibre Channel, Hard Disks, Video Cards, etc). I guess that is from there A+ people, maybe. I have not yuet recieved my results from the Beta exam but I am 99% sure I passed it. It is nice to see that a major certification company like CompTia has a linux certification for people to get. I have the SAIR cert but I thik this one will help a little more when I leave the military and go looking for a Linux (or Unix) sysadmin job.

    --
    "If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people in the world?"
  3. First glance by term0r · · Score: 3, Informative

    At first glance this seems to be a fairly basic-ish certification as the course is aimed at the Linux Professional with 6 months of experience with the Linux Operating System, but after looking at it further it covers a lot of different area's. These seem to include installation, xwindows, planning systems and all the basic linux services. One very surprising thing is that so little of the marking schedule is based on Planning the Implmentation (only 4%), I would have thought a lot more should be based on this, as this would be a valuable skill.

    Overall its good seeing a course which is aimed at linux as a whole, instead of one distribution, and is also something that I would have the skills to complete myself.

    1. Re:First glance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for not using apostrophe's in plural's.

  4. Is it just me... by Corrado · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...or are these kinds of tests not worth the paper their written on? I really think it's funny when someone says to me "Yea, I just got my MCSE" and they think I'll be impressed. Usually, I just laugh and say something about knowing how to study to a test. In fact, when looking for a job I usually avoid the ones advertising for someone with one of these "degrees". I think real world experience is the only way to be good at this stuff. Sure, learning is never bad but I think these programs just put more unquallified people on the streets. This dillutes my marketability. I don't like that.

    Now that I've said all that, I think there are/were some really good tests on the market. Cisco engineer and Netware engineer are/were some of the certs that I really respected. But, you don't see those much anymore. I guess it's because they are too hard to get. :)

    --
    KangarooBox - We make IT simple!
    1. Re:Is it just me... by budgenator · · Score: 2

      No, but actualy cosidering the degree of ignorance about computers and operating systems six months of OTJ expirience is a lot more than most people get in six years!
      In linux a lot of things are hard, in a MS os it's either easy (point &amp: click) or almost impossible, but this is changing rapidly. I just set up NFS on the home network basical by doing exactaly what the HOWTO said, there is noway I think I'm qualified to do this Professionaly. The test covers things that I would never enable/config on a professional network because of pervasive security problems. It probably would have been better to seperate out some things like Email, FTP and HTTP stuff to a seperate exam endorsement.
      On a lot of these exams it seems that perhaps making money for the certifing orf and the instructors is more important than testing for valuable skills.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    2. Re:Is it just me... by baptiste · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I just set up NFS on the home network basical by doing exactaly what the HOWTO said, there is noway I think I'm qualified to do this Professionaly.

      Actually, by doing exactly that, you're more qualified than many. I'd much rather have one of my system admins be able to admit they don't know how to do something, know where to look to learn, and then have the overall computing background to understand an implement the steps of a HOWTO, etc. Heck, even the best system admin doesn't know everything. Most tend to specialize in certain areas (filesystems, I/O, Raid/LVM, applications, etc) By that I mean they REALLY understand how to setup certain types of things, but in other areas they need to look stuff up. I've been administering systems for years - and you still hit situations where you have to research some stuff.

      Sysadmins, no matter how good, don't know how to do everything off the top of their head. THose that think they do are dangerous because you risk having them screw up something major. A good sys admin is one who is savvy enough to be dropped in front of a system they have never used before and using their overall computing experieince and available reference material - figure out how to set it up or enable some feature while at the same time knowing their limits and knowing if they are treading in an area of the system where they can do real damage - at that point someone who takes the time to research what their about to do online or by asking for help is much better than the person who just lows ahead and screws up.

      So gon't sell yourself short. If you think passing a test would qualify you to deploy stuff on a network securely, you're dangerous. A good sysadmin may knwo how to deploy a system in a fairly secure manner, but a great sysadmin will know how to test for anything he/she missed and know where to look to make sure they didn't miss anything.

      I've been adminsitering systems since I graduated from college both at work and at home - and I learn something almost ever day. Stuff keep schanging so fast you can't possibly stay current just studying for a test :)

    3. Re:Is it just me... by mindstrm · · Score: 5, Informative

      Having done some entry-level IT hiring in the past.. let me tell you about certifications.

      They ARE useful... in a way. When I'm looking at a resume for an entry-level IT person who can come in and start taking some load off me for more 'simple' tasks... fixing PC's, helping clients, doing some network cabling.. etc....
      Obviously, someone with experience is what I want. But... few people with experience fit the bill.. they are too senior, don't want that junior job.
      Now.. if someone says they have A+.. I know I can tell them to open up a computer and add some ram and they won't go 'Hunh? What's that?'. Oh.. they may still have questions about what kind of ram... but at least they understand what's going on.

      Ever heard how, In karate, the black-belt, aside from simply holding your pants up, symbolizes 'the beginning'. The same could be said of most certifications such as A+, N+, this new linux one, etc. They are a beginning, not an end.
      If you had that linux certification, and no other experience, I would consider you for an entry-level linux job.. if I interviewed you and thought you had the brains for the particular job.

      That's ALL they are... there are two things I really hate.
      1) The classes tend to prepare people into thinking they now know everything, and are ready to take top-level jbos. This is especially true of MCSE, not so much of A+/N+/etc.
      2) Employers and shops like to brag about their certified employees... 'All our technicians are A+ certified'.

      Really.. I guess I'm saying that.. these certifications are a good entry into the business, but no more.

      CCIE... the reason you respect that is because it's not a certification you can just go out, do a bit of studying, and get in a weekend if you know nothing. IT was designed to certify experts in internetworking. I looked at it a couple years ago.. the routing & Switching one. I know a LOT about TCP/IP... I've been doing fairly detailed stuff for about 9 years... and I knew about 80% of the IP section, which was only about 40% of the whole test. (if memory serves). It's hard.. so if someone actually passes CCIE, then that proves they DO know something. It's like a PH.D in networking.

    4. Re:Is it just me... by AsylumWraith · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Watch it, I've met too many of you MS certified freaks that don't know what the hell you're doing to buy the "You're just too scared to take the test" bit.

      Perfect example. When I got out of high school, I got a job working for the department of defense the good old fasioned way (I knew someone on the inside.) No certification, just 6 years of home experience under my belt. A month later, they hired an MCSE. Guess who ended up training who, who's beeper was going off all the time to help the other, and who screwed up less.

      I'll give you a hint: It wasn't the MCSE. And this was in a strictly MS shop (we had finished migrating from Netware 3/4 shortly before this guy came on.)

      Now, I don't see anything wrong with getting certified. In fact, one day when I have the motivation, time, and money, I will go out and get an MCSE, a CNE/CNA, an A+, a CCNP/CCNA, and now this Linux+ cert. But not having those pieces of paper doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing (with the exception of the CCNE/CCNA... I don't know the first thing about setting up a router. :p)

    5. Re:Is it just me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch it, I've met too many of you MS certified freaks that don't know what the hell you're doing to buy the "You're just too scared to take the test" bit.

      All I said was go get the certification and then complain. I agree that most MCSE's are morons... (Key word there is *most*. 9 out of 10 MCSE's I know are worthless. But there is usually 1 in the group that knows what they are doing.)

      I have the RIGHT to complain since I went out and got the MCSE so I could see first hand that the test was a crock. I just get sick of hearing people slam the certification programs when all it really boils down to is they are too scared of failing the tests to go take them. It's hard to speak intelligently about something you've never done yourself don't you think? Go take the test then come back and slam it all you want. Your arguments will be far more valid if you can append all your posts with "By the way - I am an MCSE"

    6. Re:Is it just me... by AsylumWraith · · Score: 1

      It's pretty easy to speak on it when I've seen dozens of uncertified freaks out perform certified freaks. Really says something about the test, don't you think?

      And yes, I have the right to complain when I've had MCSEs waste my valuable time, because they don't know the first damned thing about a C:\> prompt.

      I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with getting certified... but it's not the be all, end all, of computer knowledge. The cert can only give you the basics (if that.) After that, you need to go out and improve those skills.

    7. Re:Is it just me... by Broken+Bottle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree with you 100%. Being a good sys admin is like being a lawyer: you're not taught every laugh in law school, but you are taught how to find and apply the case law that is relevent to case you're working on. Particularly on extremely complex network OSes like UNIX, linux, Win2K, etc... I think it would be damn near impossible to have an encylopedic knowledge of they work and the syntax of every command you may need at one time or another. A good sys admin has the fundamentals down cold, knows how to do the fancier stuff required of him in his job and knows how to get answers to the tough stuff that comes up. It's one thing to know how to run your network as it is today, but a good sys admin will know how to be able to run the network as it will be in the future as the company's needs dictate.

      Chris

    8. Re:Is it just me... by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      A good sys admin is one who is savvy enough to be dropped in front of a system they have never used before and using their overall computing
      experieince and available reference material - figure out how to set it up or enable some feature while at the same time knowing their limits and knowing if they are
      treading in an area of the system where they can do real damage - at that point someone who takes the time to research what their about to do online or by asking for help
      is much better than the person who just lows ahead and screws up.


      AMEN Brother! This only comes from expierience (doing this stuff at home or hobby is as valuable as the guy that got paid for it, just call it freelance and never say you did it at home)
      I have in the other divisions of the company I work for MCSE's abound, I do not have and refuse to get a MCSE as they are worthless. I am constantly bailing out the MCSE when things get tough, or using SQL or even when they have to deal with any of the Mpeg insertion equipment that run's NT3.11.. "where's my computer or network neighborhood?" is asked by these MCSE's.

      The important skills that are needed in IT/IS today cannot be learned or certified. and that makes certifications worthless.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    9. Re:Is it just me... by Animats · · Score: 2
      In linux a lot of things are hard, in a MS os it's either easy (point &: click) or almost impossible...

      That's a good insight.

      Microsoft has a passion for for "wizards", which handle the common cases reasonably but aren't too useful when the starting system state is ill-defined. (UNIX people have a similar concept, called the "shell script".) Both suffer from a design concept which involves modifying a state the tools don't fully understand.

      The real problem is that system administration is typically an add-on to a system, not a designed-in feature. And it shows. The Windows world accrues registry entries (and even the registry was an add-on), while the UNIX world accrues text files in "/etc". In neither case are programs available which can read in the system state and diagnose all inconsistencies.

    10. Re:Is it just me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, I agree with you completely - but I also have to wonder how successful you've been in your job search?

      I've been with the same company for over 5 years now doing a combined system administration and help desk/support type role. I'm more than ready to move on to something new and interesting, but I'm having a terrible time finding promising job openings. The main reason I started with the job I've kept so far is because they hired based on "what can you really do", as opposed to screening based on having a college degree, X amount of work-related experience with particular products, etc. I went to college and worked on an Associates, but never finished it. Instead, I got the opportunity to help a couple friends get a new computer business off the ground, and I worked in the industry ever since. I made up my mind, early on, that I wanted to have a computer-related career. I've learned much more that's relevant to my work by actually working in the industry than I ever would have by finishing my college degree.

      What I'm seeing now, though, is this. The companies that truly interview and hire based on what you know (instead of on paper certs. and degrees) tend to be smaller firms, with limited growth potential. Either that, or they're high risk startups that could run out of funding and die off at any time. The "big players" who I'd really rather work for are all caught up in the paperwork game. ("What, no 4 year college degree? Throw that resume away.... next....")

    11. Re:Is it just me... by RandomPeon · · Score: 1

      Funny, couldn't agree more. I'm a Unix guy who donates my time to adminster a win98/2k network for a nonprofit. I've found that I can do anything for them I need to, given enough time and books (which is my nominal compensation, a stack of MCSE books) - it's not a question of knowing exactly "what", but of understanding how to figure out "what".

    12. Re:Is it just me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DOD huh? I used to work for the DOD some time back before I grew up and set my sights a bit higher. The only *real* jobs down there in the IT field are the fellows in green/blue work suits (as in the guys who are in the armed services) setting up tactical and tactical-strategic comms and networks. The other stuff is same-old same-old. We used to remark that a guy could take a five year sabatical from the DOD, then come right back to his old desk, and nothing would change except maybe the stack of paper in the in-box.

      Seen the stories of the DOD guys returning from retirement to help out with the latest crisis? Sort of proves the point.

      Yea, maybe if the DOD took the time to invest into something more than three to five year old technology, then they would actually need someone with MCSE or other up to date certs.

  5. Boost for linux credibility by heretic108 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    These new certificates will help a lot to counter the stigma some people perceive regarding linux.
    Maybe the IT management community (yes, those who think that 'hackers' are criminals who vandalise computers, rather than prolific and talented programmers) will start to realise that Linux isn't actually a bastion for pirates and crackers.

    Good to see.
    So any bets on how long it'll be before linux-certified engineers are earning higher average salaries than w--dows certified ones?

    --
    -- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
    1. Re:Boost for linux credibility by spacefem · · Score: 2


      So any bets on how long it'll be before linux-certified engineers are earning higher average salaries than w--dows certified ones?


      Interesting concept, I'd say working with free software and demanding more money is kind of a contradiction in terms. Out moneying everyone will involve proving that we're just plain smarter than the windows types - a process that doesn't phase most /.-ers but still requires time.

      My bet is March of 2003. There is a pool going, right?

    2. Re:Boost for linux credibility by uchian · · Score: 1

      Out-moneying everyone would strengthen the case against open source that it does cost more in the long run.

      What you really want to do is earn more per hour, but have to do less work overall. The company wins (Only need one sys-admin to to the job of two), you win (you earn more money doing less work), open source wins (because it get's proved as a better sort of software).And of course, all that extra time could be used devloping more software!

      So the question is, which system requires more on-hand work?

  6. Well Yippie by evilviper · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Looks like the hiring teams no longer need to actually find out how well you know your stuff, only if you have a piece of paper that says you do.

    I'm just as happy as everyone else that Linux is getting more recognition, but I've seen too many people with A+, N+, CCNA, CNA, MCP certifications and Masters Degrees in CS, comming to me to actually learn the first thing about computers, to put any faith in any certifications, and I'm quite disturbed by the fact that many employers do.

    Does anybody know of any real certifications out there that tests your skills, rather than your ability to memorize test questions?

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    1. Re:Well Yippie by cansecofan22 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The RHCE by Red Hat and the CCIE by Cisco are both lab based exams where you have to do actual hands on work to earn the certification.

      --
      "If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people in the world?"
    2. Re:Well Yippie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looks like the hiring teams no longer need to actually find out how well you know your stuff, only if you have a piece of paper that says you do.

      Waaaaa..... waaaaa....... I'm too scared to take the tests... waaaaaa....... waaaaaaa..... waaaaaaa.

      Does anybody know of any real certifications out there that tests your skills, rather than your ability to memorize test questions?

      Here's a thought. Go take the tests and find our for yourself! Then once you have your "worthless" certification, come back here and complain all you want.

    3. Re:Well Yippie by mindstrm · · Score: 2, Redundant

      What should an employer put some faith in then? How do you chose to hire someone?

      I agree.. you shouldn't hire based on certification alone... especially for serious jobs... but that's why experience usually always wins over education... so don't worry.

      A Masters degree in CS doesn't necessarily have anything at all to do with normal IT work.
      A+, N+, CCNA, CNA, MCP.. are all 'entry level' certifications. All they should tell you is that the person is familiar with the material covered. by no means an expert. If you say you have a switch, they sort of know what that is.....

      The problem is that some treat certifications as the 'end of the road' for learning.. not the beginning of the journey, as it should be.
      Let me compare it to.. a diving certification.
      You go out and get your PADI Open-Water Diver certification. This qualifies you to dive in normal conditions down to about.. I forget.. 60 feet max, in open water. Now.. just because you are certified, does NOT make you an expert diver.. it just means that some professionals have decided you know enough to dive safely under those conditions.

      After hundreds of dives.. and more study.. you may someday be a Divemaster.... many certifications later... which means you've done hundreds of dives, and are an expert diver, so much that you can take responsibility for helping others out on a dive.. etc.

      A+, CNA, etc... are like the Open Water certification... they are a beginning.

      Aside from the CCIE (Cisco Certified Internetworking Expert) certifications... I can't think of any certifications that actually test experts. CCIE definately does (unless it's changed.. I know they split it into three different exams now... but each field has grown as well.. so...). Unless you are some kind of prodigy, you don't study for a weekend and pass CCIE.. you have to know a LOT about a LOT to pass it.

      Other than that.. certifications.. don't worry about it! Work experience is everything. If you get the chance to go for liek a weekend firewall course or something... on the company, to get 'certified' on something.. go for it, won't hurt..
      but nobody will be questioning a few years experience wondering 'but you don't have an A+!'

      If you have experience, and a company really wants all their techs a+ certified.. they'll send you to the course themselves.

    4. Re:Well Yippie by AsylumWraith · · Score: 1

      Read my reply earlier in this thread. These tests are nothing more than the same thing you did in high school and college: cram for the test then forget anything. This doesn't mean that people who have them don't know anything, but it doesn't mean they necessarily mean they know anything either.

      In the end, all it really means is that you had the time and money to go out and get certified, while I was doing my job, learning the real thing hands on, and paying my bills.

      Get a life. Stop being so defensive.

    5. Re:Well Yippie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read my reply earlier in this thread. These tests are nothing more than the same thing you did in high school and college: cram for the test then forget anything.

      That may be true for some people but it's not true for everyone. I know a hundred times more now than I did when I got my A+. I haven't forgotten anything, I've learned shit loads more.


      This doesn't mean that people who have them don't know anything, but it doesn't mean they necessarily mean they know anything either.


      No one said it did cowboy.


      In the end, all it really means is that you had the time and money to go out and get certified, while I was doing my job, learning the real thing hands on, and paying my bills.


      What a crock. I'm so sick of hearing that "I was busy doing my job" crap... No... All it means is you are too much of a fscking coward to go take the test because you're afraid you'll fail. What kind of $5 an hour job do you have where your employer wont pay for you to go take the test on company time?

    6. Re:Well Yippie by AsylumWraith · · Score: 1

      No, what it means is that I don't work for a dot-bomb. My (current) job expects me to work 12 hour days. Being a contractor, I don't qualify for company-sponsored training, until I've accumulated 1000 hours overtime (which is how they'll pay for the training, I guess.) And even then, I won't be able to take the test on the client's time. I'll have to take it on one of my days off, when I'm usually sleeping.

      I'm not afraid, I know full well that I could go out and pass an MCSE, a CNE, and an A+ right now. I just don't have the time, money, or a big dick complex, like you seem to have.

    7. Re:Well Yippie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      I'm not afraid, I know full well that I could go out and pass an MCSE, a CNE, and an A+ right now. I just don't have the time, money, or a big dick complex, like you seem to have.


      Has nothing to do with a dick contest dude... Ever heard of "put up or shut up"? I use to rip on all the MCSE people. (M)ust (C)onsult (S)omeone w/ (E)xperience... Made all the jokes...laughed at the Windows NT people.... Someone challenged me to go take the test so I did... Now I can laugh at them all I want... I've earned it.

    8. Re:Well Yippie by Rinikusu · · Score: 1

      What does CS have to do with System Administration or computer setup and OS installation? Very little if anything. The CS majors who do have a clue in this regards usually do it on the side so they can get *work done*. It's probably also why UNIX is still really popular in CS departments as you can get to the nitty gritty of the OS without worrying about vendor-specific API's and the like. But, please notice, it's not that they're stupid, it's that administration is NOT what they studied in college. MIS != CS. I mean, shit, dude, why quit working on your intelligent agent thesis to administrate the server? That's what the IT lackeys are for...

      --
      If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    9. Re:Well Yippie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AsylumWraith here, afraid that this thread may lead to bad karma.

      "Has nothing to do with a dick contest dude... Ever heard of "put up or shut up"? I use to rip on all the MCSE people. (M)ust (C)onsult (S)omeone w/ (E)xperience... Made all the jokes...laughed at the Windows NT people.... Someone challenged me to go take the test so I did... Now I can laugh at them all I want... I've earned it."

      I earned it the second I taught an MCSE to use a C:\> prompt.

      I've already put up. Just not through going out and taking the test (yet.) I'm not ripping on anyone's skills. All I'm saying here is that *just because* someone has a cert, they are *not* the be all, end all, of that area of expertise.

    10. Re:Well Yippie by spanky555 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Mmmm, maybe they won't say that about an A+ cert, but I've heard it about the CPD (Certified PowerBuilder Developer) a few years back. My placement firm set me up with an interview at a potential client. During the interview, I talked to two team leads, then the PM. The PM said that "well, we don't normally hire folks that don't have a CPD". At that point, I had approximately 4.5 solid years experience doing PowerBuilder.

      If you don't know what PowerBuilder is, it has many similarities to VB. The major differences are it's edge on doing client/server apps (better db stuff) and it implements OO slightly better. But it's very, very simple compared to something like C or C++...almost any old poseur can at least look productive with it. So I was quite amazed at this arrogance and stupidity on the client's part. Other than that, I know the client was a reasonably good place to work. So you can never tell when someone might be looking for those things.

    11. Re:Well Yippie by Rinikusu · · Score: 1

      There is *some* merit here.

      I work one, sometimes 2 jobs, go to school fulltime. The time I'm not spent at either, I'm studying for classes I'm taking, or shit, taking a breather because 16 hour days really get to you after awhile. Studying for the A+ so I can have someone say "Here, boy, fix this printer" is not my idea of a good time.

      --
      If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    12. Re:Well Yippie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All I'm saying here is that *just because* someone has a cert, they are *not* the be all, end all, of that area of expertise.

      ...and I agree. I still don't remember anyone saying that just because someone has a certification that they *are* "the be all, end all, of that area of expertise." So relax...

    13. Re:Well Yippie by BlueTurnip · · Score: 1

      Does anybody know of any real certifications out there that tests your skills, rather than your ability to memorize test questions?

      That's what an interview is for. I'm sorry to say there is no substitute for a good interview, especially when your pool of applicants are fresh out of school with little or no experience. A certification will weed out the completely computer illiterate, and it is certainly not a minus on a resume, but if you want good people you have to devote some resources to a good interview program for new candidates.

    14. Re:Well Yippie by evilviper · · Score: 1

      You underestimate my complaint. I know CS majors who do not know how to download a file. (Yes, I mean that literally). I don't expect Network Admins to come out of CS, but the ability to Copy & Paste should be mandatory.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    15. Re:Well Yippie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a dismal thread this bit turned out to be.

      I don't see how people bickering about bank accounts or who's too lazy/dumb/smart whatever to write certifications.

      I work a mediocre job running an IBM 3890 and I make between $25,000 and $30,000 a year (Canadian, 1$CDN=0.67$US). I am married and my wife and I have a 2 year old baby. We are still paying back her student loan; and are in debt for more money than I want to think about (mortgage, line of credit used for car -- and then car repairs; but that is another story).

      I am in the unfortunate position where I can't afford to leave my job (that I dislike) and get a so-called 'entry-level' job (that I would like)paying less than I make now; or can expect to make in the future; as I am doing well at work and have been there for 10 years; which gives me 4 weeks vacation and a good deal of job security over the newer employees.

      So I am writing some certification exams in effort to better my chances at getting a job I might actually enjoy. I got my A+; wrote the Linux+ beta and the Network+ beta (the Linux+ I found easy and I am very sure I passed; the Network+ beta I found very difficult, and I admit studying just to pass this exam). And unlike some of you; I don't get any of this paid for by the company I work for.

      My point is that all this aimless posturing over how worthless certifications are in general makes me very cranky. Those of you who have jobs you enjoy are not proving anything by telling others that certification is either worthless or some sort of ego booster. Writing the adaptive A+ could hardly be considered a challenge when you write both tests in six minutes. And while writing the Linux+ beta, all I could think was about how it would be great to pass; but if I did the certification must be very much an entry level cert (less worth).

      If I can put a certification on a resume and increase my chances of getting a better job; then it has served it's purpose. If I get hired and don't know squat, hopefully I either learn quickly -- or get canned.

      I don't consider attempting to improve my resume and advance my career pointless, thank you very much.

      I hope this thread full of detritus gets moderated off the planet.

    16. Re:Well Yippie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup I've seen that too. We had tools in our CS classes that didn't know how to save a file. And this were Georgia Tech students. I plan on getting a degree in CS, and then taking on some form of Unix administration job, as I don't want to be stuck behind a desk
      all day.

  7. linux is an OS? by SafeMode · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So it's vender neutral. So that means it's only about the kernel because linux is not an OS. It's just the kernel. The OS can be anything. Maybe it should be renamed gnu/linux+. Does it cover PDA versions of "linux" or any of the numerous other implimentations of "linux" ? If it's truly vender specific then it is only about the kernel because everything else around it is chosen by the vender. "linux" is not like Windows. So, now that we've decided it's only about the kernel, what kind of kernel is it about? There are many branches of the linux kernel being developed concurrently for different purposes. So lets assume they mean linus' branch. What exactly would someone with 6 months experience know about the kernel and how it works? More importantly, what job would require this certification of 6 month kernel knowledge? I know I'd want someone with a hell of a lot more experience with the kernel than 6 months if the job required that person to work on the kernel.

    No this is not a case of symantics. When you say linux we're used to thinking about the distributions of debian, redhat, suse, slackware. But that is not linux. Linux is a kernel that can be used on any number of different operating system environments and it is on embedded systems and what not. A certification of "linux+" is misleading to any employer if any employer was stupid enough to rely on such a thing. If you're going to certify someone for an operating system, narrow it down to the damn operating system. A vender neutral gnu/linux+ is what they're talking about. That's not the same as embedded linux experience or experience with linux with any other environment.
    change the certification to gnu/linux+ certification and it kind of makes sense and is useable. But trying to certify on all linux-based OS's by just having linux+ certification is not only impossible but totally useless.
    Also, why dont they have WindowsNT+ or any other OS certifications? those are much more static and set in their specifications of what comprises the OS.

    1. Re:linux is an OS? by guhknew · · Score: 1

      For all intents and purposes, the kernel is the OS , just without any of the tools essential to run the OS.

    2. Re:linux is an OS? by hidden · · Score: 1

      yes, but this exam is presumably going have a good deal on it about those tools. I doubt the exam has much relevance for the system I made a while back that doesn't even have ls (I had my reasons, don't ask) I think that's all he's trying to say...

    3. Re:linux is an OS? by dragonfly_blue · · Score: 1

      OK, Richard, whatever you say.

      Backs away slowly.

      --
      Free music from Jack Merlot.
  8. Yet another difficulty with hiring situations . . by mjprobst · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Even in the situations where they claim to be testing one's abilities, they're more often testing one's abilities to spit back a memorized answer from one particular system, where a 5-minute period of time with the manuals or actual system, without any destructive actions, could bring about the same result.


    I have memory difficulties but have never failed to figure out a *N*X box after being placed in front of it, or in front of its 20' of manuals. Within a week of starting work in a *N*X shop I've always become a valued expert resource for the team, even on systems I'd never seen before starting the job.


    But in this economy the smarts in the hiring department were shoved aside, because so much of the boom-time workforce was full of people who claimed "No problem, I can just learn that" without being able to deliver. Right now, those of us whose learning/execution style leans towards pattern recognition and understanding of the architecutre are getting the short end of the stick, because they want to ask a few poorly-worded, poorly-constructed test questions that supposedly boil down everything one would know. I've even caught some of them not knowing their _expected_ correct answer was not _really_ a correct answer!


    Of course there are some environments in which this won't cut it. Hiring just _one_ person to be at the head of a support structure for a given vendor's *N*X is one example, that person should have enough background to answer from memory immediately. But even things so simple as filesystem mounting is different between vendors, and in 95% of the cases the differences between in-house policies at different companies are much more important than what particular commands/files are used on one vendor's system.


    Nice to see that the problem-solving and architecture-understanding skills have been stomped out of the market, in favor people who can emulate a raw keyword search through a textfile.

  9. don't forget braindumps by alen · · Score: 2
    And don't forget braindumps. Everyone who can read is getting and MCSE so they can earn $75,000 on their first job with no experience. MS said they will get rid of braindumps with the Windows 2000 cert, but MCSE Braindumps is alive and well. MCSE is nothing more than a free sales force.

    Even Cisco is feeling the heat of competition. My last month at my old job I didn't have anything to do. So I decided to get a CCNA. Did it without ever touching a router And the practice tests I used had 10 questions straight from the real exam.

    Now I'm learning Linux. This is what Linux needs, a good known cert. It needs to have it's holders know enough to be dangerous. Then you need to start pumpimg out people with that cert to act as a free sales force for linux. It worked for MS back in the NT days.

    As far as knowledge, Cisco was pretty good. Their questions were straight to the point of the material covered. Microsoft questions were a guessing game. Some questions you had to read into it and make assumptions. Other times if you read into it you got it wrong. And then of course some of their answers are to upgrade to windows 2000 to use TCP/IP. Other questions try to get you into the MS way of doing things with MS Windows features even though there are better products available that people use. Examples are routing, back up, RAID software.

    1. Re:don't forget braindumps by hendridm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >> This is what Linux needs, a good known cert. It needs to have it's holders know enough to be dangerous.

      I agree. Now clueless business owners who heard that "Linux is free" will hire Linux+ people to try it in their business. After all, he/she is certified and knows what he/she is doing, right?

      The first time the shit hits the fan, the business decides Linux is too immature and difficult to maintain for his/her business. This may be true for his/her business, but you can't necessarily expect a Linux+ certified person be able to administer Linux effectively.

      However, I think it is good in showing that you have an open mind and are willing to "do what it takes" to learn other technologies as needed, rather than relying on your University education that taught you VB and Windows is all you ever need...

  10. Re:Yet another difficulty with hiring situations . by Skapare · · Score: 2

    That's a fairly accurate description of how corporate hiring, and even much small business, does things in areas of high-tech. Part of the problem is that people responsible for determining who can do the job don't have enough high-tech background of their own to really understand who has the smarts and who just says they do. <ramble>And too often these hiring managers toss out resumes of smart people, then whine to the government that "no one qualified even applied for the job" to try to get more H1Bs to come into the country, take our paychecks, and mail them back to their own country, depriving our retail businesses of a lot of their revenues.</ramble>

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  11. credulence(?) by staeci · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Gives Linux even more credulence with PHB's but might be its bane when we suddenly have our own version of the 'memorised the test questions' MCSE.

    --
    'Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson...'
  12. Re:Yet another difficulty with hiring situations . by Spock+the+Vulcan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    get more H1Bs to come into the country, take our paychecks, and mail them back to their own country, depriving our retail businesses of a lot of their revenues.

    Well, surely the employer has the right to employ whoever they like? Maybe the foreign worker is not as qualified as you ( and that's in your opinion :) ), but provides the employer with a better price/performance ratio.

    Apparently, globalization of economies is good only as long as it opens up foreign markets to American companies; as soon as the people from there start taking advantage of a globalized job market too, it is time for you to rant, isn't it? How about trying to learn some skills that distinguish you from the rest of the pack? But maybe whining is easier than competing.

    The people who do come in are not exactly burger-flippers. For the most part, they are reasonably educated in their discipline. Sure, some of them send money back to their countries, but they also buy cars and homes and stuff from "our retail businesses". Nobody's taking "your" paycheck - they have taken a big step to leave their homes and come here to work for it. Go do something worthwhile instead of crying - you were lucky to be born in the land of opportunity, learn how to live in it.

  13. I have to back that up... by mindstrm · · Score: 2

    You are 100% correct. The guy who sets up NFS at home, and plays with various things, generally has a BETTER chance of being hired if I interview him than the guy who juust took a linux course last weekend because he heard it's a new buzzword.

    If you do that kind of stuff at home, dont' sell yourself short on what you know.. you'd probably find you know quite a bit MORE than most who just learn through certification/courses.

    And you are so right about sysadmins being dangerous....

    I'll say. it took many years before I really realized that I could be confident in my own knowledge. As you say.. there are always areas you don't know anything about because you've never had to work with them before... but as a sysadmin.. you have to be general.

  14. Linux Saturation by bakhtiian · · Score: 1

    I think this is going to be both good and bad, in the same way that it's been both good and bad for Microsoft.

    Granted, this is going to create an army of mindless zombies claiming that their new certification makes them experts in the field. Which is exactly what happened with the MCSE, etc. The market saturation is going to drive down the average pay for the average Linux professional, but it will also be proof that knowledge in Linux is important.

    In Salt Lake City, everyone has their MCSE, so jobs that previously paid $40k/year for that certification now pay just over half that. It's become a worthless exam around here. But as a result, it's almost impossible to find a *nix job anywhere. It's even harder for us Perl hackers.

    If exams like the RHCE and Linux+ start saturating the market with "professionals", it's going to start edging on Microsoft's market share, but at the same cost that Microsoft has paid.

  15. A good analogy I use.. by mindstrm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I came up with this one today.. so sorry I posted it elsewhere already.. but..

    I liken A+, N+, this new Linux certification, and those like them (MCSE even)... to the PADI Open Water Diver certification.

    For those not familiar.. scuba diving is a self-regulated industry. There is generally no law that says you can't dive.. but a dive shop won't sell you tanks, or gear, or sell you air if you don't present a certification. They COULD.... but they won't. Wanna go on vacation to go diving? In general, a dive expedition won't take you out if you aren't certified. Oh.. they can make exceptions... but you get the idea.

    You study for several hours.. take a few classes, do some practice diving, and then get run through some tests to get your certification.
    Now.. NOBODY who takes the PADI Open-Water certification an passes would come out of it thinking 'I AM NOW AN EXPERT DIVER'. And that's the problem... with N+, MCSE, etc.. people come out of them thinking 'I AM NOW AN EXPERT'. That's what bothers us.. isn't it? It's not that they took it because they want to get int ot his business, and come to their new job willing to learn and grow.. it's because they tend to show up thinking 'I'm certified, I know it all.. nya nya'. And of course.. they don't.

    1. Re:A good analogy I use.. by kennylives · · Score: 1
      Of course, with PADI Open Water Diver certification, there's a strong disincentive to considering one self an expert. I've never taken any classes for PADI, but I imagine it to be similar to learning to fly. If the instruction doesn't pound it into the initiate's head that they are not an expert, reality will rush up and remind the individual. Otherwise they may well find themselves booted right out of the gene pool.

      Unfortunately, no such disincentive exists with MCSE, A+, N+, etc...

      I think it's a good analogy to use, and I'll have to try to remember it the next time our PHBs get it in their heads that we (at work) should be all certified; it's a starting-point, where the individual meets the bare-minimum requirements. The rest takes time. Lots of time.

      --

      Where the value of X-Mailer: is the true measure of a man...

    2. Re:A good analogy I use.. by gad_zuki! · · Score: 2

      people come out of them thinking 'I AM NOW AN EXPERT'.

      That's a huge generalization. From my experience its 'this will help me get a job/make me look more qualified' not necessarily suddenly gaining guru status.

      I know its clever on Slashdot to knock certifications but this is way out of line. Passing a test is simply that: passing a test. Regardless, even if someone had some kind of ego boost they will shortly be put in their place when they can't perform on the job like someone with 10 years experience.

    3. Re:A good analogy I use.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the business world, attitude will get you a long way (with other business people!). If someone arives with a certification saying "I know it all" and act like they know it all, their bosses are likely to believe that they do (furthermore, it's quite possible that the cert-holder will believe that they do, too, such is the extent of the "positive thinking" they employ in order to suceed). This gives the boss a sense of security. Don't know how often this has been said here but it certainly appears to me that "business" is all about ass-covering and ass-licking. A recruiter will hire someone with an MCSE above someone who doesn't just so that they can place the responsibility on the employee rather than their own judgement if that employee turns out to be a dud.

    4. Re:A good analogy I use.. by SectoidRandom · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, no such disincentive exists with MCSE, A+, N+, etc...

      Are you sure? What do you call CodeRed, Nimba? :)For me when i hear of big companies (like Compaq for one here in Aus) having their mail/web systems down because 'someone' didnt do their job and patch those systems, i *hope* that one of those (us) pesky managers stops to think; "Why werent we protected??"...

      With the IT employment sector as it is right now, im happy in the knowledge that when my company needs a new Techie (as we will soon) we have a vast pool of applicants to sift through.

      You would be supprised how quickly companies 'get a clue', maybe 18 months ago when hiring an Administrator the 1st problem was finding one, now its very different, and many Managers may not know jack about IT, but they know exactly what they need done! It is really common knowledge (for a manager) that experience counts!

  16. Slashdot certification? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 3, Funny

    Can you get Slashdot certified? What exams would you have to pass?

    --
    -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    1. Re:Slashdot certification? by AnalogBoy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Core Requirements for /.+:

      Test /.-001: Microsoft Bashing
      Test /.-002: /.-style grammar and spelling.
      Test /.-003: General Fanaticism
      Test /.-004: Slashborg Membership
      Test /.-005: GNU Zealotism

      Electives:

      Test /.-E01A: Defending Jon Katz
      Test /.-E01B: Flaming Jon Katz
      Test /.-E02: Common Sense
      Test /.-E03: General Knowledge
      Test /.-E04: Passing off assumptions as legal advice.
      Test /.-E05: Sleeping with the enemy
      Test /.-E06: Karma Whoring
      Test /.-E07: Anonymous Cowarding, Goatse, etc.
      Test /.-E08: Intelligent Insults
      Test /.-E09: Inflicting the /. Effect for fun and profit
      Test /.-E10: Whining

      Must take the core + up to 3 electives to pass. Passing score on any elective is 20%. Minimum passing score for the core is 99%

    2. Re:Slashdot certification? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just fail a 7th grade English test.

  17. I'm an A+ certified "professional" by ColGraff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And I have to say, the certification is crap. Utter crap. Allow me to elaborate.

    I started studying for the exam way back in early 2000. I bought a book (the "For Dummies" book, for chrissakes!) and skimmed through it. For various reasons, I didn't get around to taking the exam until July of this year. By then, the test had changed, including manmy questions about Win2K, third-party processors, and a much greater emphasis on trivia than I had been lead to expect. I had not studied for any of these things.

    Furthermore, the things I had spent the most time cramming (IRQs and DMAs, mainly) were not on the exam. At all.

    So I'm sitting there at the test machine, slowly realizing two things. One, I have never seen any of thses questions before in my life. And two, it doesn't matter, anyone with a bit of experience (NOT six months as a computer tech, much less) could answer these questions. I can't remember a specific example, for which I apologize, but even in areas where I had NO experience, I was able to get by by choosing the "least-worst" answer.

    I passed the exam, and that is meaningless. I freely admit, as a tech I am very green. At my summer tech job, my boss had to correct me after I put an IDE cable in a hard drive with the red stripe facing AWAY from the power connector! That's a pretty basic mistake, and one you wouldn't expect a "professional, experienced computer technician" to make. But at the time, I had a card in my pocket saying I was exactly that!

    My point? I cannot speak for any of the other CompTIA exams - maybe they are incisive and highly effective tools of tester skill that only the best of the best can pass, tests that lay one's ignorance open to the blistering light of knowledge - but the A+ exam does not achieve its goal of accurately evaluating the experience and skill of the test-taker. This makes me worry about Linux+. Do we really want a bunch of Linux+ professionals entering the job market, and making Linux look bad?

    On a side note, I have successfully used my certification card to impress attractive women. Anyone else find these things useful?

    --
    I'm the stranger...posting to /.
    1. Re:I'm an A+ certified "professional" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The red stripe on the IDE cable indicates where the zero pin on the device should be connected. Pedantic, I know, but it's the little things that add up to credability. It's always nice to know the real whys of this world...

      (Posting as AC due to offtopicness)

    2. Re:I'm an A+ certified "professional" by feed_me_cereal · · Score: 1

      hey, I'm A+ certified and my card dosn't seem to be impressing any women, or at least not attractive ones. So yeah, useless.

      --
      "Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson
    3. Re:I'm an A+ certified "professional" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its a good point, since it isnt always on the side of the power connector. Usually is though

      Different AC, same reason

    4. Re:I'm an A+ certified "professional" by Troed · · Score: 1
      At my summer tech job, my boss had to correct me after I put an IDE cable in a hard drive with the red stripe facing AWAY from the power connector! That's a pretty basic mistake


      There's no law saying pin 1 is closest to the powerconnector. It's usually the case, but I've seen drives where it's not. I look for the little '1' on the board :)

    5. Re:I'm an A+ certified "professional" by Skapare · · Score: 2

      I've attached the red stripe on the wrong side before, and it worked. That's because I attached it on the wrong side on the other end of the cable, too. Fortunately it was a non-polarized connector, so I could do this. The reason I did it was because of the way the cable was made. By reversing it, I avoided having to twist the wires back around, which was making the cable too short to fit. You can't do this for floppy cables, though, due to the asymmetric twist (there's 4 ways to plug those in, and 3 of them are wrong).

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  18. Brainbench? by shibboleth · · Score: 2, Informative

    How seriously do folks take the brainbench.com cert's? Just wondering because I'm about to start taking their tests.

    That site has ~5 linux cert's. They can be passed via a ~50min, $25 online exam. The tests are open book with 2min to complete each question. The employer can verify it was really you that took an exam by giving you another version of the test downloadable by employers for free.

    --
    "Be thankful you are not my student. You would not get a high grade for such a design :-)" - Minix pro
    1. Re:Brainbench? by donglekey · · Score: 2

      They seem to be pretty well recieved. When I went looking for programming work (didn't find it) recruiters (satan spawns) did care that I had them. The tests aren't easy just because they are online, but that is why they are creditable.

    2. Re:Brainbench? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They do have Linux tests, programmer and general.
      Also vendor specific ones.

      There are free tests, e.g. Java and C, so you can
      get a feeling of what it is like.

      After passing literally 20+ of them, here's my
      judgement:

      1) They are relatively tough - the questions are
      adaptive, so difficulty goes up.
      2) Quality varies somewhat, but the programming
      ones I've seen were relevant.
      3) Recruiters and candidates may care because of
      the relatively low price, the tests are easy to
      set up and standardize on.
      4) Usually can get a _much_ better score at your
      second try, just by keeping the questions
      around and doing a little studying.
      5) The open book rule is of course only because
      they can't enforce anything else. Depending
      on the books and online resources you have,
      that can amount to a big difference. Having
      said that, I like it! Having the resources
      is just another way of proving you're
      proficient. For example, on the Linux or the
      Korn shell tests, you can actually take some
      of their examples from the screen and run them,
      to see what the output is or what's wrong.
      Since the questions are mixed bags, that only
      works on a few questions, of course.
      6) All tests have general and more specific
      questions.
      7) I really love the ability to customize the
      lookup of the certificates. Basically you
      can show the scores you want to be seen,
      with details or without.
      8) The certificates have a general and a Master
      level ( >4.0). The details are also
      interesting, have appropriate wording
      according to your score and give your
      percentile ranking.
      9) Due to the low price and high frequentation
      I guess that the percentiles will look
      rather favorable for most users.
      10) For some of the tests I've seen questions
      floating around the net, but not to a degree
      that I'd be worried.
      11) Online certificates are only valid a year,
      which is of course the scheme to keep you as
      a client. You may want to rely on logos or
      paper certificates afterwards.

      Bottom line:
      I didn't regret my investment. From an employer
      perspective, I would actually use it as one
      tool to track skill sets. I certainly would
      respect people with Master and/or >90% percentile.
      Also breadth of background should allow
      experienced professionnels to pass >10 of these
      exams, which I would take into account as well.
      Employers can ask the candidate to repass the
      test, which might be useful if you suspect the
      candidate didn't pass on its own.

      Of course, certificates can't assess the
      candidates value in terms of willingness to work
      hard or to learn job skills quickly. Also
      conceptual thinking is not measured well.

      My 2 ct.

    3. Re:Brainbench? by shibboleth · · Score: 1

      "Good Answer!", thx.

      What about their Study Guides? Like them?

      Are recruiters/employers starting to become familiar with Brainbench? Or is it still an unknown quantity?

      --
      "Be thankful you are not my student. You would not get a high grade for such a design :-)" - Minix pro
    4. Re:Brainbench? by Animats · · Score: 2
      Back when Brainbench was free, I took and passed "C++" and "security". I wasn't impressed with either test. The C++ test seems to be oriented towards former COBOL programmers writing user interfaces for database applications in C++.
      There are questions about "object-oriented user interfaces", and mapping database objects to C++ objects, neither of which are language issues.
      That's a narrow application, and, in fact, one better done in Perl, Java or Visual Basic in a corporate environment.
      I also found several typos in the test.


      The tests are timed, and the site is slow; you can miss questions because the Brainbench site can't keep up.


      I could see using Brainbench as a filter to get rid of bozo applicants, but no more.

    5. Re:Brainbench? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I took a bunch of the tests when they were free, and found it was easy to defeat the time limitation if necessary. Also, I doubt that employers would have much faith in them since there is no way to ensure you were the one actually taking the test. I chuckle when an application comes across my desk that lists Brainbench certs. There's also quite a bit of newsgroup [Google Groups] traffic about them.

    6. Re:Brainbench? by Meorah · · Score: 1

      I've found the BrainBench open-book exams much more difficult than the CompTIA or MCP exams that I've taken. While the MCP and CompTIA exams have their place, there are always a few "statistics" or "memorization" questions on the exams. Remember a number, remember what the number is related to, answer the question because you crammed for a week.

      BrainBench obviously can not use these types of questions, because anybody with a broadband connection and a general knowledge of where the best information is found can use the time limit to answer those questions. The same can be said for people who have reference books with well-labeled indexes for fast searching by hand.

      They get around this problem by having the vast majority of their questions surround concepts and situations. There are VERY few questions which can quickly be referenced, and those that can be referenced will usually lead to an entire section/page, which must be quickly gleaned over for the correct answer, and probably contains at least one of the other answers available. This forces you to end up guessing anyway if you don't know the answer, even though you could find the correct answer given another 5 minutes of time to read.

      For those who want to measure their value, or HR departments who wish to quickly determine a subject's "BS" vs. "Truth" factor, a good pop-quiz from BrainBench is a quick, cheap and efficient solution.

      --
      Protector of Capitalist views,
      Meorah
    7. Re:Brainbench? by shibboleth · · Score: 1

      Instead of ignoring what may be good information, why not put the job applicant in a room with a test whose result you question and closing the door? You can measure your time to room re-entry yourself.

      If you're going to dismiss w/o attempting to verify your applicants' claims, why even ask for a resume/application? Evaluate applicants with your intuition/skin color/magic eight ball.

      This sentence is false.

      --
      "Be thankful you are not my student. You would not get a high grade for such a design :-)" - Minix pro
    8. Re:Brainbench? by shibboleth · · Score: 1

      Maybe Linus could ace it but the Linux Admin test, i found out, is certainly not in the joke category.

      Their cert prep ($20) i found to be helpful and enjoyable (matches my study style) but (as is only legitimate) there is no re-use and little overlap of the prep questions w/ the actual test. The area of coverage, though, is the same.

      --
      "Be thankful you are not my student. You would not get a high grade for such a design :-)" - Minix pro
  19. Re:Yet another difficulty with hiring situations . by shibboleth · · Score: 1

    His rant's main point was that 'hiring managers toss out resumes of smart people, then whine to the government that "no one qualified even applied for the job"' which, if true, would be lying.

    It is agreed that one has to keep up on the certification treadmill.

    --
    "Be thankful you are not my student. You would not get a high grade for such a design :-)" - Minix pro
  20. Beta Sucked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    (Hey look, posting anonymously is good for something, since the following is probably not what comptia wants folks to say....)

    I took the beta exam too, and found it hideously terrible. For a significant portion of the questions, several of the pick-one multiple-choice answers were actually correct -- and for another large portion, none of them were.

    I'm pretty sure I passed too, but if I didn't, it reflects worse on them than it does on me. The beta exam provided the opportunity to comment on each question, which I did liberally. I sincerely hope that the final version fixes all the problems, but I'm not holding my breath.

  21. Certifications are just a tool... by NetJunkie · · Score: 2

    They don't make someone an expert. But, If I bring someone on my team with a MCSE I expect them to be able to do a certain baseline of functions. For example, add users, put machines in the domain, understand WINS at a decent level, etc, etc. The MCSE has a bad rap because there is no "expert level" certification. They need one, bad.

    Look at Cisco. They now have a layered certification system. Their final level, the CCIE, is their expert level. You don't meet any paper CCIEs for a reason.

    I've taken the RHCE exam, the LPIC Level 1 exams, and the SAIR exams. By far the best exam, of course, is the RHCE since it involves a lab exam. Only time will tell if Red Hat protects this exam from brain dumps and simple HOWTOs. It wouldn't be hard to mix it up enough to do that.

    So, in conclusion, certs are a tool. I think it's crazy to look down on people with certs, but it's even more crazy to hire them for the simple reason they have certs. If a person has a cert I'll quiz them on thep product/technology enough to see if they can back it up. If they can't then I know they just studied for the exam, not the product/service and they just lost points.

  22. A worthwile Certification? by McDoobie · · Score: 1

    So there are dozens of different Cert courses out there on the market, A+ being one of them.

    As someone who is thoroughly grounded in the basics of Linux and Networking, but is not yet "guru" enough to be considered an expert, what is a worthwile Certification to persue so as to get my foot in the door as an entry level grunt?
    i.e. Someone who assists the company gurus by handling the menial tasks that they have no interest in dealing with.
    At least by starting out as a grunt, I can learn first hand from the company gurus where I should be directing my studies.

    Any senior gurus here on Slashdot wanna give me/us some insight as to what you would be looking for in an entry level grunt?

    McDoobie

    1. Re:A worthwile Certification? by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      entry level grunt:

      IQ over 115 prefer 120+
      Able to work unsupervised but wil ask for help when it is needed (that impresses me more)
      Runs a network at home, has set up and managed a lanparty.

      Plusses to get me impressed.
      Has sucessfully installed Slashcode.
      can handle teaching a braindead salesperson for the 30th time that login: wants their username, and they have to actually log-in to read email, with a smile on their face.
      can after 20 minutes in my server room during the tour tell me 1 thing to improve productivity.. (I have 4 things intentionally wrong in there that can be easily fixed and spotted.

      Now I'm a IS manager with a clue. most IS/IT managers are pretty clueless or too busy to spend time finding a great employee.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  23. You have to pitch it the right way by ColGraff · · Score: 2

    Mainly by lying. Tell stories about how you got the card - spending hours disassembling computers to learn the answers to questions, family traditions about computers - you know, emotional stuff. Women dig that, supposedly.

    I do apologize, however. I shouldn't have left my statement as it was - it implies that the card alone, without a backstory, is enough to impress women. You use the card to intrigue women ("Hey, what's that?") then tell your story. Make it good.

    And remember: Knowledge is power. Power is an aphrodisiac. Therefor, your A+ cert. card has the potential for - interesting - applications.

    Yes, this is all tongue-in-cheek.

    --
    I'm the stranger...posting to /.
  24. it is just you, dummy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yep, a vendor certification proves you know how study for and pass a test. In the case of the MCSE, it's proof that you've study for and passed 7 exams.
    If you can't be bothered to study and pass some exams then you aren't worth shit. I'd take a certified individual with no experience over some non-certified loser with experience any day, because I know the certifed guy has the balls to learn something new, and the non-certified guy is most likely a loser.

  25. you are obviously worthless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is it that most conractors seem to be idiots?
    I seriously doubt that an idiot contractor that has to work 12 hour days could walk right into an exam center and pass all 7 MCSE exams. If you really think so, go to Brainbench and see how many sample tests you can pass. The real MS exams are a good deal harder.

    1. Re:you are obviously worthless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      seriously doubt that an idiot contractor that has to work 12 hour days could walk right into an exam center and pass all 7 MCSE exams.

      Hahah...exactly. These people just like to sit around and bitch and complain about how worthless certifications are so they can justify their own pussified attitude about getting off their lame asses and going and getting certified. If you "know beyond the shadow of any doubt" you can pass the test... Then you are just proving how stupid you are by not getting the certification. Like it or not, that "worthless" piece of paper is worth a great deal of money.

    2. Re:you are obviously worthless by seann · · Score: 0

      yeah
      what is it
      500 600$ to take the test?

      A great deal of money indeed, not all of us have italian or serbian parents who can lend you a grand whenever your in a fuss. (Live in Niagara, learn)

      --
      I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
    3. Re:you are obviously worthless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A great deal of money indeed, not all of us have italian or serbian parents who can lend you a grand whenever your in a fuss. (Live in Niagara, learn)

      Get a real job that will pay for it.

    4. Re:you are obviously worthless by seann · · Score: 0

      Better yet, send me money. :)

      --
      I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
  26. A+ is an entry-level cert for IT grunts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think anyone ever pretended that A+ was anything more than a true entry-level benchmark for PC techs. That's why it's not called the Brain Surgeon+ certification.

  27. lanparty = bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A home-lan is good, but the last thing I want is a stupid ass gamer on my staff.

    1. Re:lanparty = bad by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      Umm this stupid-ass gamer is in charge of a huge WAN,multiple LAN's and 2 fiber nodes with 16 application servers 2SQL servers (each hot backup/failover to 2 other machines (3 servers per SQL), and over 360 workstations with 120 wireless laptops. Much of what I learned before getting here was organizing smooth running lan parties for Duke Nukem. If someone can manage a 30-40 person lanparty they can easily manage a 200-300 user corperate lan. Anyone that can organize multiple machines that are not alike, different OS's different patch levels, different patch levels of application software, and Prima-donnas that think they know their machine but cant configure their own network card is super valuable.

      Please send me your unwanted lan-party runnung gamers, they are very welcome here!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:lanparty = bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where have you people been when I've been looking for a job and being told that not having certification is proof that I don't have necessary experience?!

  28. Oh, I agree with you, but by ColGraff · · Score: 2

    The problem is that the A+ exam does not even really evaluate the information it claims to test. According to the certificate hanging on my wall, when I passed the exam I had a solid grasp of a large number of facts involved with operating systems deployment, motherboards, disk drives, printers, and networking. I did not really have the degree of skill in these things my certification indicated, and that's the problem. It certainly is an entry-level cert, but it does not accurately evaluate an entry-level tech.

    --
    I'm the stranger...posting to /.
  29. Website certification by Animats · · Score: 2

    The A+ website has some dead links (such as "http://comptia.org/certification/aplus/URL", which is supposed to link to the FAQ. And there's no obvious way to mail the organization. Did they certify their web designer?

  30. kinko's by devgeek · · Score: 1

    what does kinko's have to do with it?

  31. distributions. by seann · · Score: 0

    I'm reading over the "Linux+ Exam Objectives Outline" and I'm now wondering as I see the bullet:
    Package Management
    What kind of package management is this? Red hat? Debian? Slackware?
    Am I at fault, because I don't use a red hat system (Why would anyone use a redhat system, when they can use Debian/Slackware). Do I have to study things I won't use? I don't use redhat, and if I did, would rpm2tgz and installpkg file.tgz be using their package system?
    Do I have to use horrible standards I don't believe in, when there is no standard to being with? With windows, sure you can use omniHTTPD instead of IIS, but since windows is a standard, and it developed it's own webserver, thats the accompanyed standard. However, linux has no such standards, you can use any webserver you wish.

    Shell Scripting
    What kind of shell scripting? Am I forced to use Perl? Bash? Tcl? Can I use PHP, which I use for shell scripting (Don't knock me on this, it's just like using perl for the shell, and it's nice to be able to change one variable, and make it into a web based script for remote administration).

    Will they have sample questions/guidelines better than these? Is this why it's in beta? I can't imagine working for a company that activly and supports redhat on the server end. Will this certification promote this?

    --
    I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
    1. Re:distributions. by omega9 · · Score: 1

      My God, man. You can certainly whine. And it comes across like you aren't genuinely interested to the answers to your questions, only in displaying that you know what all those things are. It makes my head hurt.

      I am extremely excited by Comptia offering a Linux+ cert. Having completed their A+ and NET+, I feel confident they'll do a good job. Have you taken any Comptia exams, or are you just ranting to show off? The NET+ exam was very platform independant, ranging from Windows to Novell to Unix to hints of Mac.

      Not to mention the Comptia name recognition. I have mentioned to my employer before ideas of attempting the LPI or Sair Linux certs and they have no idea who I'm talking about. Sair who? LPI Who? But when I mention my NET+ cert they allways know who Comptia is, and trust them at that.

      I'm still interested in your reasons for ranting. You may not intend to, but you're coming across very elitest proclaiming "I can't imagine working for a company that activly and supports redhat on the server end." I'll forgive your grammer, but why such a statement? We use Red Hat for several things at our company, from Squid servers to routers to web/ftp servers to health monitoring servers. I work in an environment where I am one of two people competent in Linux and the other is four hours away. This means every Linux server application has to be as easy to use as possible with as much available documentation as possible. Red Hat was an easy choice. My office mate could care less about the "open source freedom fighters", he just wants to be able to pick up a book and get his work done. From my trip to the local book store last night there are absolutely more books on Red Hat then any other distro. You are either to young, to inexperienced, or just plain to inflexible.

      Back on topic: I imagine sections on package management will be cross-distro, i.e. discussions on different systems like RPM, DEB, and .tgz files. The Sair exams seem to favor SuSe heavily, and therefore stuck to RPM management. Shell scripting will no doubt be similar. It would be assinine to stick to only one language.

      You also have questions you need to ask yourself. Will you not accept a job from anyone running Red Hat? If you refure to use Red Hat now, forgoing the RPM package mechanism, and not learning about it the process, how can expect to be a well rounded candidate for a Linux position? Remeber, in most cases it's not you telling them what to do, it's them telling you what to do. It's good that you're passionate, but there are things you must consider.

      --
      I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.
    2. Re:distributions. by seann · · Score: 0

      :)
      18, and won't settle for a job that I don't get to call most of the shots. Thats how I work, I use slackware at home, and if it's good enough for home, it's good enough for work.

      "I can't imagine working for a company that activly and supports redhat on the server end." I'll forgive your grammer, but why such a statement?
      That was an incomplete statement, I can't remember what was susposed to be after "activly", maybe promotes?

      I wasn't so much ranting, but mad because I couldn't get any further information on what the test involves. Linux is such a wide topic, how can you sum it up in one little test?

      Books in a bookstore? Redhat in 24 hours? I think the book that slackware supplies, if it's as good as it was back in 3.4, is enough to get you by. Anything else like "Apache for morons" wouldn't be to distribution specific.

      We'll see what happens, either way I will probably end up taking this test, weather it be based around redhat or not (Unless it has linuxconf tied into it, I'd draw the line there).

      --
      I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
    3. Re:distributions. by Meorah · · Score: 1

      "18" answers a lot. I am not trying to be derogatory by this statement, but you have not yet reached the point where you are humbled by your true stupidity. Only by accepting that you do not know even the smallest decimal of a percentage point of the knowledge pool in the IT industry, will you ever be taken seriously.

      --
      Protector of Capitalist views,
      Meorah
    4. Re:distributions. by adrianhensler · · Score: 1

      I got dinged on this one - on the Linux+ beta; all the questions that I got related to package management were rpm based. I may be a linux novice; but I know what I like and RedHat ain't it. I used slackware for a bit back in the 1.x(1.2?) days; and more recently Debian.

      So I had only used rpm once or twice; and yet had to answer a half-dozen or so rpm-based questions on a "vendor-neutral" exam.

      I used the input fields on the exam to complain about just that fact.

    5. Re:distributions. by seann · · Score: 0

      Your the whole reason my argument exists, I thank you for providing the real life example on why I ranted about this.

      --
      I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
    6. Re:distributions. by seann · · Score: 0

      thats what you think ;)

      --
      I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
  32. As much as Linux sux... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As much as Linux sux, seeing it's non-standard crap it's kinda good they have this. Now if only they make a cert. for the "real men's OS's" non-kiddie OS - *BSD!

  33. $100 per exam, cheapskate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you don't have a few grand sitting around in the bank then you have a serious problem.

    1. Re:$100 per exam, cheapskate by seann · · Score: 0

      I have 2$ sitting in the bank. Full time in school, 18. Had a minium wage job I worked 5.5 hours a week. Yes that is an excuse, I loved my job.

      100$ per exam, is this america?
      Double that for Canadian prices. 200$ is a paycheck for me.

      --
      I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
  34. MCSE and CNE come to mind by CaptainSuperBoy · · Score: 2

    Except for the CS degree, those are all entry-level certifications. For network administrators, I would look for CNE or MCSE certs, depending on what platform you were looking for of course. If I were hiring someone into a position where I expected them to learn and grow, I would hire someone with A+, MCP, or the like.. but to think that someone with an MCP is going to lead your enterprise migration from VMS is ridiculous..

    MCSE and CNE are good certifications I think, just due to the sheer number of tests you need to take. For an MCSE with no previous MS certification, you need 7 tests under your belt. MCSE+I is 9. You don't just go out one day and say "I think I'll get an MCSE.." It's a big career move, and a huge committment. You will need to get recertified periodically, and it does cost money to study and take the tests. There are enough tests in the series to weed out people who aren't truly committed to learning.

    I think certification is important depending on what you want. It's only one piece of the puzzle, and you certainly need to look for real-world experience and a demonstrated ability to learn and adapt. But if I were looking for someone whose job would mainly be to troubleshoot LaserJets, HP certification is the first thing I'd require!

  35. H1Bs get screwed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They come here, for a six year period, HOPING to be able to get a green card so they can stay. Until (big IF too) they get that card though, most of them are unable to change jobs easily. Most "US" workers wouldn't care nearly as much if they were simply granted permanent green card status right away. Xenophobics would complain of course, but they always do.

    Right now, take a look at dice.com. Half the ads flat out state "No H1Bs" now. That alone is proof that H1Bs are at a disadvantage in terms of being able to seek work in the US. If they can't work, they WILL be deported. They won't call it deportation of course - just like Arab Americans being jailed now are not being "arrested" just "detained." That means they're unable to negotiate on the same footing as an American. All of which combines to erode the standard of living earned by US citizens - including those naturalized through immigration.

    People who have actually bothered to learn about the legal aspects of H1Bs, and not just "anectdotal" stories know that the program is corrosive to the American ideal of the past. It fits perfectly in the corporate republic, as does the banishment of minimum wage laws, free speech (right to organize/unionize), and every other aspect of dissent.

    As for the allegations of them all havign Masters or PhDs, don't be silly. The education system there is FREE, which means [just about] everyone THERE has access to it. Its not so here in the US. It is also inferior to _quality_ US degrees - which is why even Osama Bin Laden's family and friends's kids were students here until 9/14.

    Depending on the country, most enter "University" before US students finish high school - and not the ones that get left back. They have fewer years of primary/secondary education compared to the US.

  36. Re:Hints for dealing with pacifists. by GeekDork · · Score: 1

    OK, here goes my karma, but... well, I have to say it. You are an ignorant asshole (and a coward, sometimes the title just fits). Anybody accepting civil deaths "for a good cause" is.

    But that's not all. You're an asshole because you're interrupting a discussion with some bullshit that doesn't belong just because you're either too stupid to know it, or because you're simply an asshole running around crying for revenge. Revenge always leads to escalation. Escalation is what lead to what you're crying about.

    I know I will regret answering to each and every stupid troll cropping up, but... hey, eventually the author of one will read what I wrote and be really pissed off. That's gonna be my moment of triumph.

    --

    Fight hunger. Filet a politician and send him to a 3rd world country of your choice.

  37. LPI not vendor specific? Wrong... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I got certified in LPI's course almost 2 months ago (still don't have my certificate), and I can honestly say that it is EXTREMELY Redhat specific.

    One of the books we use in the training course specifically says it's meant for use with Redhat 6...

    What's more, nearly everything we install is via RPM's. The only time that's not true is when we got (very briefly, another negative) into security, and the packages were in .tar.gz format -- then they grudgingly taught us how to compile those.

    In-class, we installed 4 different distros the first day (Caldera, Turbolinux, Redhat7.1, and SuSE), then installed Redhat as the distro we would use for the course. To their credit, the majority of the work was done at a command prompt, but more setup/config-type stuff was done in the GUI than I liked...

    As a Slackware lover for about a year (and having dabbled in other distros, as well as FreeBSD), the class was a breeze for me - I'd already learned half of what they had taught me, and what I didn't know (mostly how to setup DNS, DHCP, and NIS servers) came easily, thanks to my own exploration...

    BTW, even though the class is Redhat-centric, the test splits package management knowledge up about 45% .rpm's, 45% .deb, and 10% .tar.gz files. And you don't learn .deb files *AT ALL* during the certification course.

    Just my experience...

  38. A+ vs MSCE certification by os2fan · · Score: 2
    Certification does bring with it an exposure to a certian range of learning. For example, an MSCE exposes you to antique networking. With A+ you get to pull a pc apart and put it together again.

    But what I have found, especially with the MSCE stuff, is that they look only at the MS solutions, and never at the competition. So you get this legacy certificate in legacy software. MS is in the process of cancelling their NT4 certs, and getting modern drivers for NT4 is hard to do. The point is, if you want third party stuff, support it. It's the same all the way around.

    With third party certification, at least they teach you practical things, although the A+ software course I was on was a five day MS ad.

    But it took me a grand total of 12 minutes to pass the exams. The fun thing was that in the the servey (which uses the exam question), selecting "no further course" is a wrong answer. Well...

    --
    OS/2 - because choice is a terrible thing to waste.
  39. you're bragging about MS SQL Server? ewwww.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and it's spelled "corporate". dumb ass.

  40. To all the cert haters I got a bigger paycheck! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Beacuse management likes certs!

    3 years ago i started at 40 k.
    Got my MCSE in 6 months.. 4k raise.. never asked for it!
    MCSE+I - no raise.. counted later...
    CCNA. $5000 Raise - $1000 Bonus.
    A+ - $2000 Raise
    N+ - $1000 Raise
    I+ - $1000 Raise
    CCDA - $3000 Raise
    CCNP - $4000 Raise
    W2KMCSE$5000 Raise

    Plus all my other normal yearly raises... I'm making 69k a year.. Not bad for all those stupid certs eh? Everyone in my group is making $45k for the same job. Anyone who tells you it does not matter is lying... Cuz they are too lazy to get off their butt and take a few tests! Management has no idea what Active Directory is but they sure know wghat an MCSE is!

    1. Re:To all the cert haters I got a bigger paycheck! by Skapare · · Score: 2

      Your management is lucky, having not gotten burned on one of the hundreds of thousands of bad MCSEs out there. I'd bet you could do the job, whatever it is (you didn't say) whether you got the certifications or not. The problem is, your management leans on that as a means to determine whether you can or not. That should get you in the door, because an interview is not a very good way to do that. But within 6 months it should be rather obvious whether you can do the job or not based on whether you are getting the job done or not. I'm assuming you are getting the job done. What about those other guys without the certs? Are they getting the job done as well as you are? Or are you doing better? And would you be able to do better if you had simply studied well, tried things, learned from mistakes, and not taken the exams?

      The value I see for most certifications is being able to prove to a new prospective employer than you have the foundation to do the job.

      But there is a reason management likes certifications for people who can prove, and have proven, their ability to do the job well. They can use that in promoting the business. If the business is offering a service to other customers who want some way to judge how well that service might be, they can use the numbers in promoting the business. That makes the certs valuable to the business even long after you have proven to your own management your actual worth. They can now promote the business better to prospective customer and that is effectively the same as an entry-level situation.

      But I must congratulate your management on paying up for getting those certs. Many don't, or do very little.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  41. Server based? Desktop stuff is crappy? by Meorah · · Score: 1

    Servers are generally not continually fiddled with. When somebody makes a configuration change, they usually have a very good clue as to what they're doing. Once installed and running smoothly, servers require very little baby-sitting, as the techs who work the night shift at any NOC will gladly admit.

    That "crappy desktop stuff" is far more important than you assume, because you'll always have users who think they know what they're doing and can convince somebody over you that they shouldn't be included in your workstation policies because they need to do something for some lame part of their job that they really don't need to do, but they end up pulling it off with HR because most everybody wants them to just shut up and go away. Boom, you've got AIM or BearShare or MusicMatchJukebox on a desktop, just opening holes in your network as your user happily plays on the company's toy.

    This is only one example. There are thousands of other examples. Understanding the desktop is a tremendous value for any corp. Being the manager and the tech is a goal to shoot for, because you will be paid better, and have the knowledge of both worlds to make a very smooth running network.

    --
    Protector of Capitalist views,
    Meorah
  42. i was a linux+ developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    can't give you many details, but i can tell you that a lot of effort was put toward making questions that matched the described tasks as well as creating questions that are challenging, even to the 6-month linux technician. it's not the same as LPI, but LPI was involved in its creation.

    there are some memorization questions, to be sure, but there are also a number of difficult items in there. a lot of problems came from trying to remain '"ditribution-neutral", because as soon as you wrote or modified or reviewed a question, someone would point out that this config file was redhat-specific and didn't apply to slackware or whatever. lots of problems there. anyone who took the beta probably noticed this.

    to anyone knocking the a+ exam: this isn't the same thing. it's definitely a step forward for linux as it strives for acceptance among the masses.

  43. Re:LPI not vendor specific? Wrong... by Specter · · Score: 1

    Thanks for bringing up the point that the exams are split between rpm and deb. LPI is a vendor and distribution neutral certification exam. We do not recommend, specify, or require any training program or courseware. You're free to study on your own from the published exam objectives or to work with one of the many training and courseware vendors who support LPI.

    Additionally our development process for the exams is community based and open to anyone who wants to participate. Right now we're in the middle of beta testing our Level 2 exams. During the beta, you can take both of the Level 2 exams in one combined form for only $84 (USD) at any VUE testing center. (See the bottom of the page.)

    With regard to your certificate, be sure to contact us at info@lpi.org. If you're overseas, it sometimes takes things a while to get there via snail mail.

    Thanks for supporting LPI!

    Jared
    jared@lpi.org
  44. Re:LPI not vendor specific? Wrong... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are mixing things up, LPI does exams, not courses, you should complain to your courseware provider if you feel it is too vendor specific, or simply go to another provider -- thats the idea with LPI, you are free to make many choices....