Cheaper Carnivore Alternatives Still Want To Spy On You

Troodon writes: The Register reports on Forensics Explorers' NetWitness. Rather than relying upon the FBI's 'fail-safe' separation of Carnivore Operators and Case Agents to discriminate between legitimate data and that inadmissably, incidentally siphoned up along with it and submitting to the installation of a mysterious black box within their network, ISP's can comply with CALEA in-house for approximately $2,500 per collector and between $35,000 and $45,000 for an analysis station. Should you fancy a little development, another cheaper alternative exists: Altivore." Not sure any of this is much comfort -- the lesser of two evils is still evil.

Comments

I beg to differ

[serps]

Not sure any of this is much comfort -- the lesser of two evils is still evil.

There is quite a difference between Carnivore's 'log everything on the server and ask questions later' approach and that of NetWitness. If you are an ISP and forced to comply with the Feds, I know which program your other users would rather have on their pipe.

privacy is overrated

[Anonymous Coward]

really, most people's *private* information is out there already. privacy is an illusion. took out a student loan? all 3 major credit bureaus have your info. use that convenient swipe-card to get a discount at the supermarket? they're tracking what you purchase. really, unless your somekinda ultra-paranoid tech-cypher-phag who spends his time rearranging the underwear in his dresser to keep the secret police from tracking your habits, i don't see the harm if the government spies on your little secret fetish sites 3 in the morning cuz you can't get the real thing.

okay, so there are cheaper alternatives.

[motherhead]

But was that ever an issue, price?

Durring all of this hullaballoo about Carnivour and the FBI's right to hamfistedly and indiscriminatly monitor packet traffic, i don't once recall it being writtin.

"oh yeah and they're easier to get then wire-tap warrants, if these damn things were cheaper it would be green lights all the way bay-bee" -Special Agent Trent Squarenuts.

Evil tech exists, evil tech is being deployed and the guys that want to see it installed usually don't shop with coupons.

lose right to remain silent... Same as UK

[SomethingOrOther]

This is exactly like the Regulation of Invstagatory Powers (RIP) bill in the UK.
Give us your crypto keys + If you refuse you go to jail (If you tell anyone you are under invstigation you go to jail for even longer)
Tell them you have forgot your keys or missplaced them and the burden of proof is on you to prove your innocence. Not on them to prove your guilt! (Tell me... how I'm supposed to prove I have forgoten something?)

Basicly this walks all over your rights to protect yourself from self-incriminaton and the right to be innocent untill proven guilty
Dont worry too much though, I'm waiting for the first test case to go to the European court of Human rights.... It cant last.

Re:Lotek versus Hitek

[Diabolical]

But the flip side is the terrorists have also achieved that NO-ONE trusts the internet.. thus creating another problem.. remember.. terrorists are not dependend on tech.. WE ARE!

The whole issue with ECHELON showed that bussiness use of the internet is depending on strong security and encryption.. giving the keys over to the US government isn't quite safe.. (since echelon allready is US government owned)...

So... who would benefit most from carnivore and anti encrytion laws? Not us... only the government...

Who would lose most from carnivore and anti encrytion laws? Not terrorists.... just us and international bussiness...

I understand this is a very delicate subject but is it important for us to lose our rights as opposed to gain security? And what kind of security will we gain? At this very moment it is a very hot topic in the light of sept 11th but how will we look upon these issues in say 2 years from now?

What are we to gain at all?

It won't matter

[YIAAL]

The WTC bombers communicated in the clear, because no one knew enough to intercept their stuff.

You have to know who to spy on before this stuff does any good. That takes Intelligence. And intelligence.

Both are in short suply.

Re:It won't matter

[motherhead]

agreed, completely. It is hard assets (read : human intelligence assets) that we needed, but you notice this is why the CIA isn't pounding the drum for carniviour, it's the FBI.

The CIA wants more James Bond, not More Larry Ellison. actually that is too glib. what they want is the ability to fund and maintain deep cover assets or agents like we used did in the cold war. Actually have our guys in the bathroom stalls next to the terrorists, complaining about the quality of the toilet paper.

What simple-minded idiots?

[Garry Anderson]

What simple-minded idiots want the authorities to have access to everything you do?

Government say about surveillance - "you've nothing to fear - if you are not breaking the law"

This argument is made to pressure people into acquiesce - else appear guilty.

It does not address the real reason, why they want this information - they want a surveillance society.

They wish to invade your basic human right to privacy.

This is like having somebody watching everything you do - all your thoughts, hopes and fears will be open to them.

All your finances for them to scrutinize - heaven help you if you cannot account for every cent when they check on your taxes.

Do not believe the lies of Government - even more money spent on Carnivore will not protect you.

Do you not think - even once encryption back doors and greater surveillance are introduced, and you could guarantee the impossible - that they could defeat all steganography:

That - when not planning face to face, terrorists will just have to send personal couriers - or get caught?

Perhaps give mobile for single message when required - just using message - go with plan a / b or abort.

Incidentely, the United States Department of Commerce and the United Nations World Intellectual Property Organization hide solution to trademark use on the Internet. Please visit WIPO.org.uk.

Amen

[overunderunderdone]

Thank you for a rare note of sanity on /.

ALL police powers (all government powers for that matter) involve some "violation" of our rights. They carry cuffs and have jails and prisons to "violate" your right to liberty, they carry guns to "violate" your right to life (as a last resort hopefully) And they question you, execute search warrants, wire tapping warrants etc. to "violate" your right to privacy.

The fact is a police state is not the only threat to liberty, anarchy is just as bad, and is usually a precurser to a police state. The police powers to "violate" our rights is a balance designed (when working right) to maximise our freedoms and rights. The government has the power and authority, granted by the governed, to "violate" the rights of individuals who have or are suspected of violating or planning to violate the rights of the rest of us.

Don't get me wrong, I think we must always be on guard against overreaching by the state. But often people on /. have elevetated certain rights to such an extreme that they deny *ANY* legitimate police power. Ironically at the same time they are blind to more serious overreaching by the state that threatens other rights not as elevated as the "right" to perfect anonymity & privacy.