Microsoft Shuts Auction Doors On Old Windows

mrv writes "Microsoft is keeping a more-vigilant eye on online auctions of old copies of Windows software, with people trying to offload it due to the upcoming release of XP. Also within the story is info and tips for donating a computer (and software licenses) to charity. (Charities must have site licenses for Windows 98 or newer!)" A lot of users seem to think that they can sell off their no-longer-used software to subsidize upgrades, but that's just not what the EULAs say (at least with pre-installed MS software). Time to go re-read what sellers of used software have had to say last year, and the MS method of shutting own eBay auctions.

Comments

"That's not what the EULAs say"...

[Wakko Warner]

...we're making a tremendous leap of logic in assuming the EULAs are legally binding, aren't we?

- A.P.

So let me get this straight...

[Brian Kendig]

Let me get this straight. It's basically not possible any more to purchase a new PC without a copy of Windows bundled in (and included in the price), and you're not legally allowed to sell or even give this copy of Windows to anyone else?

So, even if you're upgrading from an old PC to a new PC and you want to use your copy of Windows 98 on this new PC, you're still required to pay for a copy of Windows XP that you can't get rid of? And if someone wants to get some new life out of an old PC, he's not allowed to have a copy of Windows 95 unless Microsoft lets him buy it from them (yeah right), even if you have an extra legal copy you're not using?

And what's more, Microsoft appears to be strong-arming the issue to get even more leeway. The article says that Ron Faul was selling two copies of Windows 95 and that Microsoft had eBay shut down the auctions; it doesn't say that these were preinstalled copies. I especially like this quote: "The preponderance of history is against them in this case, but light bends when it gets near Microsoft."

Years and years and years of court cases against Microsoft, from their killing DR-DOS back in the early 1980's by spreading Fear/Uncertainty/Doubt all the way up to their killing Netscape in the late 1990's by 'cutting off their air supply,' and they're still powerful enough to pull trash like this -- Bill Gates is probably laughing his head off at the all-bark-no-bite of the American legal system.

Sort of.

[www.sorehands.com]

What you say is true, but there is a rub. I have 3 copies of Windows that I don't use. They were preloaded, but I did not agree to the terms. I have not been able to get refunds for these packages either.

Since they refused to take the return, does the EULA that I did not agree to hold valid?

Re:This isn't quite right...

[dattaway]

I would return to the store the bundled software and request my money back for that portion.

When I bought my new Toshiba laptop last month, the seal on the box had large type stating the enclosed software operating system is sold with the unit, cannot be seperated, and may not be subject to a refund, except for the whole unit.

Since I bought a laptop, I was legally required to buy Windows and it would be illegal for me to sell it, unless I sold my laptop with it. Great free country we live in, eh?

Re:Ok, question for the masses

[Deagol]

Reminds me of the "shipbuilder problem" in philosophy class. Back in the days when ships were big, a shipbuilder is contracted to repair someone's vessel. Over the years, he'd take home each piece he replaced on the old ship, until he had the parts to build is own ship. The person who paid him sued for "his" ship back.

So, what's meant by "that PC"? Do I need a new license for each part I replace? If not, then if I've replaced everything (either over time or wholesale), then I should be able to use that license on the improved "old" machine.

Gets kinda sticky, doesn't it?

Re:MS - Shooting themselves in the foot

[squaretorus]

#2 is the most relevant for most people. How many times has someone with an ageing Win machine called you up (thats right - they cant use email because their machine broke) asking 'could I borrow a win95 CD?

I have about half a dozen of these loaned out to various people who needed a new hard drive, or had to reinstall for whatever reason. The fact that they didn't get media, or they got a Win98 upgrade disk but no 95, means they would have to go out and buy a NEW MS OS for £100+ to run on an old P100 32Mb RAM. They wouldn't.

MS should either sell win95 CDs in supermarkets for £20, or let you sell your copy for what you like. A current OS is perhaps a different matter - they have to make a living you know!

Re:How barbaric.

[aozilla]

I've heard this said over and over again, but it's simply not true. You are buying a CD with an installer on it. As long as you obtained that CD legally you have the right to install it on your computer and use it, unless you give up that right some other way. You do not need a license to install and run software, just like you don't need a license to read a book. You only need a license to copy, distribute, or create a derivitive work. While installation involves copying, it is exempted by copyright law as long as you follow certain rules (basically, you have to have purchased the copy legally and cannot install it on more than one computer at a time).

Experience selling bundled copy

[SilentChris]

As much as I'm indifferent towards MS (I don't share the rampant hatred most people have towards the company around here, but I don't think Windows ME was a stellar marketing decision, either) I have had one negative experience selling MS software on eBay.

Specifically, I received a copy of Windows NT 4.0 workstation with my copy of Visual C++ I purchased in college. I attempted to sell just the NT 4.0 workstation CD (with key, and thus its license). I never installed the CD on any of my machines, so I thought it would be ok.

MS contacted eBay and my auction was immediately shut down for "illegal goods". When I asked eBay customer support the reason, they said that Microsoft claimed I was selling the CD without a proper license. I said to them I was selling the CD with its associated license, and I had never installed the software. They said to contact Microsoft, which I did and it was never resolved.

To this date I harbor no ill will towards MS or eBay (I've completed dozens of other auctions without issue, and for what eBay does [getting a ton of people to look at your auction], it does well). Still, I can't imagine what it'll be like in the future.

Re:It's because there is no copyright in germany.

[coats]

But copyright IS a right to control distribution channels!

IANAL, but...

NO. Copyright is only a right to control the first distribution channel, as established by the Supreme Court in a case dealing precisely with second-sale of books. The law is (q.v. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/17/ chapters/2/sections/section_202.html:

... nor, in the absence of an agreement, does transfer of ownership of a copyright or of any exclusive rights under a copyright convey property rights in any material object.

or, for a readable-English account of what this means, see http://profs.lp.findlaw.com/copyown/copyown_8.html :

Copyright law distinguishes the ownership of a copy of a protected work (a print of a photograph, a compact disc, a book, a diskette) from ownership of the intangible copyright rights...If you buy a copy of a work, you have a right to resell (distribute) that copy.