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Neighborhood Area Networks?
schmaltz writes: "Recent discussions about long-haul wireless on Slashdot seem geared mostly to benefit institutions, really, until this post on the peer-to-peer-oriented Decentralized list opened my eyes: "What will society do, when there are kits in every computer store and mall, for 802.11a neighborhood routers? What if you could buy a kit with four pole-mounting 15DB directional antennas, and a router in a sealed case that maintains mesh networks? ... There will be a great blooming of local gaming, IM, and voice/video telephony ... a lot of sharing of music and video on these NANs (neighborhood area networks) ... share a 2nd phone line ... we will all realize pretty quickly this is NOT the Internet ..." Maybe NANs could put the telephone company out of business. Seems like the equipment and software are either available or nearly so -can this be done today? I want to build the first NAN AP on my block!!"
There's really nothing to setting up a (open/insecure) NAN, provided it's just linked to itself.
Sure, you could have problems with overlapping NANs, with frequency fights, but that's mostly handled silently by the hardware.
Inter-NAN is a little thornier, especially if the hardware becomes commodity items installed by Joe Average. I can easily forsee accidental broadcast loops due to misconfigurations.
The hardest one, however, is actually linking up the NAN to the 'net to get somewhere else, as has been mentioned in every other "setting up a wireless network" article. It's against just about every TOS. Sure, you could try buying a T1 lease, and charging for that... but now you have to track who has paid, keep people from hooking up others on the sly, provide support... in other words, become an ISP.
Now, if we all said "the hell with it, we'll ditch the Internet", and built our own from the ground up (possibly with NAPs at universities, those pesky academics are always giving stuff away for free) with long-run links between towns in a kind of wireless fidonet, then you're on to something. The infrastructure costs on that though... yeesh.
Consume the Net is where its happening in the UK. These are their aims (copied form that link above)
#aims The aims of consume.net are;
define a sustainable network strategy
utilise low cost and existing networks
impliment wireless LAN technology
optimise infrastructual expenditure
reduce network connectivity costs
increase network speed
re-distribute access
promote common ownership
increase resilliance
aggregate avaliable 'internet' bandwidth
develop top level peering status
and of course have more fun
If this really happens, we'll have FCC trying to sue every kind of internet-connection-sharing-software. And in 'the country of freedom' we really need to worry about this possibility.
It's one more association fighting for the aprovement of SSSCA. Too bad for us, to bad for US. (as I said before it could be really good for the rest of the world)
I really hope that FCC works in a different way. I hope they try to get with the "train" not against it. Of course it would be great to see another association loses time and money trying to stop the unstopable, but it would also bring a lot of legal (and maybe economics also) problems to all of us.
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
Yea its illigal to share a cable modem outside your premises, but DSL/T1 and the like are legal, if you start charging for it though, you have to get a special license to be an ISP.
I'd imagine that either OSPF, or possibly BGP, would work just fine for this sort of thing. The problem is, you need a REAL router to do these things, not one of those $200 USD Router-In-A-Box jobbies that you can pick up from D-Link or Linksys. And even then, you're not going to be able to do that over DSL or Cable, because I don't know of ANY ISP that will provide a BGP table over those connection types.
More likely would be some sort of setup where their would be a central node that those gateways would report to, and the routers at those gateways would report throughput for their links back to the central node. That node would then distribute that bandwidth as equally as possible on a per-request basis.
This basically would be just like setting up any kind of NAT-based network with more than two connects to the internet, but without the benefit of BGP to help things along. It's possible, but sticky.
There's also the subject of the real routers. Netopias won't cut it here either; you'd almost have to have a Cisco. Alternately, you could set up Linux boxen to serve as your router; Zebra is supposedly pretty far along, and would work for internal traffic distribution. There's also LEAF and LRP, two closely related projects for doing a single-floppy router/firewall/NAT device. Find them at:
The LEAF Site
Or:
The LRP Site
It'd take a lot of effort, but if you happen to live in a high-geek-ratio neighborhood and you can share the implementation efforts across other shoulders, it should be easy enough.
You thought that this sig was what you think that I thought you wanted me to think. I think.
Nope. There is nothing in the FCC regulations that prevent you from renting a dead POTS (about $4.00 a mth) and running a LAN on your street. Speeds are totally up to you. What the FCC does regulate is your SELLING the service.
Think about it this way: I have a broadband connection between my computers in my house (WELL over the RoadRunner speed). The FCC doesn't regulate that, just the devices.
Keep in mind, if you house already has a security system, or an take one, you already have a dead POTS. That also means that most everyone else on your street already has one too (probably).
The Dopester
"Yes, I'm a Karma Whore, but I'm doing it to pay my way through school."
Which is not Redmond, by the way, we're on the other side of Lake Washington, which has cities on islands in it.
I've heard of some at the UW, think there's some around Phinney Ridge, Fremont, and Ballard, and some on Capitol Hill and Belltown. Speakeasy.org has some connections and there are free terminals to the freenets at some of the local cafes.
I even think two of the nine candidates for mayor are involved in this.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
This would require proper use of ROUTING protocols, as most routers, or linux boxen can be configured to talk at least RIP and possibly more.
For those without experience, routers move ROUTED protocols (TCP, IPX, DECnet) between interfaces depending on the touting information they have stored. ROUTING protocols allow routers to communicate with each other to determin best-path to dest. RIP is very simple and basically counts the number of hops to get to it's location. BGP allows time metrics to enter into the equation, and is considered standard on the net. While some ISP's do filter Routing protocols from thier customers, it would not affect running these downstream within your own network. Indeed most businesses with multiple access to offsite/internet locations use a Routing protocol to enable redundant/load-balanced/QOS services to work. QOS would be most useful for the gamers.
Unfortunatley, the cheap $200 DSL routers are not going to support anything above RIP, if that.
This is the ???th article in ./ in the last couple of months about building a wireless infrastructure on top of 802.xx.
You need to realize that these unlicensed services operate on frequencies that are specifically not guaranteed protection from interference, and which are shared with other users.
The power levels unlicensed systems can legally use are very low, and they are vulnerable to interference from cordless phones, other wireless data users, and other services sharing these unlicensed bands.
All things considered, these systems have worked remarkably well so far, but they are fragile and there's no guarantee they'll continue working.
802.11b runs in 2.4ghz, 802.11a is at 5.5ghz, and you shouldnt have any crosstalk if you set it up right, i know, ive deployed 802.11b in several cities in the midwest that are city wide. Aironet (Now cisco) was one of the first that i know of to accomplish it in austin tx (every mile or so, they have a tower with a br500 bridge for emergency services). Theres 3 non-overlaping bands in 802.11b, stratigicly placed, you will never have one channel interfeer with another.
I will bend your mind with my spoon
Just a quick correction:
802.11 uses the "carrier sense multiple access protocol with collision avoidance (CSMA/CA) medium sharing mechanism." [1] The issue in contention-based wireless MACs is that collisions may not be detectable by transmitting nodes, so both Tx and Rx nodes participate in an RTS/CTS exchange prior to data transmission. This allows nearby nodes to reschedule their own communication so as to reduce the probability of collision. The side effect, as you point out, is increased latency in the actual data transmission; CSMA/CA is necessarily worse in this regard than CSMA/CD.
Of course, in 802.11b, once a node has secured the channel, it has (up to) 11Mbps to play with. I don't know how Proxim's scheme works, but presumably it trades off effective station bandwidth (each node getting 1/n or somesuch) for predictable access. For various reasons, this kind of design never took off in the wired LAN world.
-jd
[1] IEEE Std 802.11-1997 Wireless LAN Medium Access Control (MAC) and Physical Layer (PHY) specifications
The halls that i live in at uni (Bangor N. Wales) were all laid with cat 5 for years however the university refused to actually install the routers and switches till this year. Me and some other geeks in the building started planning the following solution to the problem :))
Every 2 floors we bought 1 adsl connection (£40 pm) and connected all the machines to one back bone a squid proxy + linux box connected to eac adsl line + ip masquradeing then connectect each machine to local squid serevr and each squidd server to each other as peers
make the squid server Masquarade but rather than just simple masqurading use a round robin DNS so each connection request went to a different adsl line. Hope fully this would keep down starvation/flooding of links. Using tos for more advanced routing and a couple of patches u can favour local (ie close low number of hops) connections if they are free and use further away connections when localtraffic is high so ping times will vary but bandwidth will remain constant.
This also means u can use a large number of different ISP's so if one goes down every ones access gets slower but doesnt die compleatly
so now you have a system where every x many houses share an adsl line amungst them and the larger nan is only there for local use or when there are a lot of local requests also your squid proxies share amungst themselves (most traffic is web only) and reduce total bandwidth use you can also use this to have ipV6 in the nan and ipv4 on the internet connection (this will help with namespace and ip allocation
see linksys wap11, it can do point to multipoint access point meshing without wired interconnects.
they go for about 140 bux
Seattle, where I'm from, has a free local wireless network setup. A number of people from the Seattle are have put up wireless antennas and access points to help the infrastructure. From what I can see, there are at least a couple hundred people already involoved with more joining. The web site for the project is here:
http://www.seattlewireless.net/
The map of all the current nodes is here:
http://ofb.net/seattlewireless/
I hope you fellow Seattlites get all your 802.11b networking equipment together and help the cause.
- pr00f
Freely opening your broadband connection to your neighborhood via wireless technology, besides being illegal (read the contract from your provider), sounds like a great way to get yourself thrown in jail for all the stupid ass ways your neighbors will abuse your good intentions; child pronography, account cracking, denial of service, spam mail, etc. Do you really want to have this sort of traffic assocatiated with you? Set up an open wireless router and it will surely eventually happen. Watch your asses folks,
you will be held liable for damage that originates from your home.