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Why Linux is About to Lose

mpawlo writes "Wired ran an interesting piece by Russ Mitchell in the latest issue of the magazine. Mitchell focus on the so called war between Microsoft and Linux and why Linux will have a hard time winning such a war, and especially in respect of the desktops. The article was only available in the paper issue, but is now also available online."

18 of 654 comments (clear)

  1. How can they lose the war by night_flyer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    when Linus Torvalds says they arent even fighting them?

    --


    Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
    Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
  2. I guess he has good points. by JeremyYoung · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But he fails to acknowledge the reality that sometimes a linux desktop makes real business sense. Yes, that market is small, and yes if you're looking at it as a war, Microsoft has won. However, in the words of Phil Jackson, "You are only a success for the moment you achieve something."

    Users do want simplicity and ease of use. And it is also true that Linux can't give them this right now. But it's even more true that this can change.

    --

    Go Lakers!

    1. Re:I guess he has good points. by Yohahn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think that the press frequently misses on the point that Free software is glacial in how it is developed. It is huge and slow moving. To dismiss its effect because of how slow it moves is to miss the size.

      You can't bankrupt free software...

      The idea "information wants to be free" is more of a metaphor. Fact is, information tends to spread with little to no effort. This is what makes free software huge. It can slow down, it can stop for a bit, but.. if necessary, it can pick up again. So while it moves slowly, it never loses ground.

      This guy is impatient. Think more monk like. It may take a long time, but if we keep trying, we will eventually get there. Nothing can prevent that.

  3. Why Linux isn't on the desktop or never will be? by SmileyBen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This was posted yesterday or the day before on Linuxtoday, and the thing I really didn't understand is not why people keep posting articles like this that claim to explain why Linux will never succeed, but why editors don't correct the headlines.

    Very, very little of this article is about why the author thinks linux won't succeed on the desktop - what it is about is why Linux isn't *currently* on the desktop.

    Sure, for example, we don't have an Office killer *currently*, but where exactly does he explain why we can never have one? Nobody can seriously be so conned by Microsoft as to believe that we'll always be playing catch-up. Obviously there will come a point (very soon, IMHO) when Linux word processors have every function most users could possibly want - just because Word adds new extraneous features every release doesn't mean those are necessary, and certainly doesn't mean people use them (or would miss them in a Linux equivalent).

    I'm just constantly bemused how people seem to make the inference from 'linux isn't currently on the desktop' to 'linux will never be on the desktop'. There may be some good reasons why this might be, but this article certainly doesn't offer any conclusive ones as far as I can see.

    Seems to me that there will come a point where a free operating system can do everything current OSes do, so the intuitive step is to ask 'Why when that happens will people pay for an OS instead?' - surely the burden is on people claiming linux will never win the desktop to answer that, even if that time is a year off or whatever.

  4. Re:How can they lose the war, Easy! by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Linus doesn't even have to be at war with Microsoft, since Microsoft by dint has declared a secret war (or sometimes not so secret in the case .. aha .. AOL) on anyone making any product which isn't in cahoots with them, and on occasion sqaushing their own business partners when it suits them. This would appear, IMHO, to be the foundation of everyone's bitch against Microsoft.

    I heartily advise anyone, who hasn't already, to listen to Bill Gates give a speech. He is a megalomaniac and a charismatic one, besides, buy you really have to pay attention to what he says between the lines. It is very intimidating to hear his version of the future, one in which there really is no competition, but a utopia run by your best and well meaning friends, microsoft.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  5. M$ Shite by tonywestonuk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Microsoft will beat Linux on the desktop because they control the way PC's are installed at the manufacturer. Linux will Never surpass Microsoft, unless their grip over the Major manufactures, with the secret OEM licence, is broken.

    Eg, hypothetically, Microsoft could just about to release a new OS, called M$ Shite - This will be worse than MSDOS, Take ages to boot, be non-gui, bugger up the HD's boot patition table so that only a Low Level format will put things right, and only run MS branded crippleware, and not allow any other software installs. Unfortunetely, they are also strongarming the Manufactures to preinstall this next generation software, so that every PC sold from BESTBUY, or PCWORLD, without exception, will come with it pre-installed.

    I wonder how many people will still stick with the OS their PC came with, in this situation regardless, 30%? 40%, maybe even 50%. Many people do not know the difference between the OS and the Computer, and don't even realise that they can change, and wouldn't even know if they would want to.

  6. Think long-term by Stiletto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ten, twenty years?

    In the future when we think ``computer'' we won't picture a big beige box under the desk with wires running all over the place, and another big box with a beam scanning back and forth across a piece of glass.

    If Linux lost the desktop PC, that's fine, 'cause the days of the desktop PC dinosaurs are numbered.

    The computers of the future are smaller, faster, and cheaper--Three words NOT in Microsoft's vocabulary.

  7. Why? No clue, that's why. by Azghoul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The guy has no clue. On page 1 or 2, he says that you can't get drivers for linux. It's sooooo hard. (never mind the fact that any real distribution these days detects just about everything right on install).

    Then later (page 4) he says "Linux is effectively a commodity and can be made to work on any hardware system."

    Reconcile those two, if you can. I can't.

  8. Re:Linux has not lost by quartz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Heh. I like chicks who dig Linux. That's why I married a physicist. :)

    About the "hope" that you speak about, well, yes and no. Yes, Linux on the desktop will never "lose" as such 'cause there's nothing to lose. We write desktop software for Linux because *we* need it. If I want a native KDE Gnutella client and there isn't one available, I code myself one. That's how Linux software gets built. And that's why stupid "what ifs" like the one in the article (What if the Linux community put an end to all the desktop nonsense right now and built on its strengths in global enterprise computing) are pure nonsense. If I want a gnutella client, I will damn well code a gnutella client, not frickin' enterprise software for which I have no use. And no, Linux will never outdo Microsoft on the desktop market, pretty much for the same reason. When I design a program, I design it to fit MY needs. If others find it useful, that's OK with me. But frankly, I couldn't care less about Joe AOL and what he expects from a software package, therefore my software will never work for him.

    So I guess if for some strange reason you want all the world to run Linux, you'd better write commercial software for it. Not necessarily proprietary, but commercial. When the world finds a way to really make open source commercially successful, that's when Microsoft should start worrying.

  9. The fight for the desktop is essential by jonabbey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If we Linux folks give up on the desktop, we will eventually have to give up on the server, unless the states and the DOJ get really wise about remedies.

    As it stands now, the biggest single factor, by far, driving Microsoft server technology into the enterprise is the fact that Microsoft desktops want to talk to Microsoft servers. Jeremy Allison made this point on the LinuxToday talkbacks for this article, that the reason Exchange gets pulled into companies is because Outlook (part of office, and so bundled everywhere) has to talk to Exchange to do calendaring and scheduling. Exchange 2000, at least, needs to talk to ActiveDirectory. ActiveDirectory and Windows 2000 really, really want to absorb the DNS function (or else you're stuck with either a lot of manual overhead to manage the SRV records, or else you have to enable Dynamic DNS updates with a total lack of security because Microsoft doesn't support any open DDNS standards, they simply use the ActiveDirectory ACL's for security..)

    See how that works? It's like dominoes, and Microsoft is supremely willing to set them up and knock them down.

    Even though we spent 5+ years developing Ganymede, we're getting massive pressure on us to adopt ActiveDirectory because that's what Microsoft says Windows 2000 really needs, and because the protocols that Windows 2000 uses to talk to its directory services are proprietary and non-documented.

    Microsoft is like a cuckoo bird, that lays its eggs in the nests of other birds. The eggs hatch, and out pop the baby cuckoos, who then proceed to shove all the other eggs out of the nest.

  10. Re:Why Linux isn't on the desktop or never will be by Gaijin42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, what I got out of the article on Wired (print version) is that he works extensively with Linux (he worked at RedHat), and thinks it is technically superior. But he thinks that OS wars and flames, and (he specifically mentions) /. Rage are counter productive to the movement.

    He says that if Linux slowly eroded the MS base, it would win. But instead you have guerilla IT departments go through and trash peoples computers, and make linux-ites look like a bunch of freaks.

    He specifically mentions an incident at RedHat where a biz. person had some Excel documents. The documents had some heavy duty macros and whatnot which would not work under any of the linux competitors. She installed Excel. She had an issue with her drivers or whatnot, and when she got the computer back from IT, excel was gone, along with her documents. The IT guy said it was her fault for being a traitor to linux.

    Summary of article : Linux is great, but the long haired freaks are gonna make it lose.

  11. Evangelism, etc. by Alien54 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The thing is that the most effective tool to promote Linux is stuff that works well and delivers the goods. Delivers the goods means delivering what people want. This may be very different from the needs of a programmer, for example.

    This is one thing that MS is still working on after 20 years, with occasional interferance from marketing, and which they occasionally get right. Of course, their marketing department has often shaped what people want, but that is another story.

    If Linux evangelists insult the people they are trying to convert, then people will not convert. If they ram it down the throat of someone, then they object, just like people object against MS.

    Remember, to do better than MS you do not have to be as good as MS. You have to be many times better.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
  12. What it boils down to... by sterno · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are far too many applications companies who have a vested interest in a vendor neutral operating system. They all know that Microsoft has totally taken over the desktop and that they are slowly infiltrating the server market. And since Microsoft likes to bundle applications together, they slowly drive companies like Oracle, Sun, and IBM to the periphery.

    I'm certain that if any of those companies could have Microsoft's dominance of the O/S, they'd jump at it in a heart beat. But since they know that won't happen, having a standard that nobody dominates is a far cry better.

    --
    This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
  13. Go down to the seashore by wirefarm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Go down to the seashore and declare a war against the sea. Bill did that just as the tide began to recede, so it looked as though he was winning. But after a while, you realize that how matter how much you kick at the waves, it has no effect.
    It's a waiting game and we don't have that long to wait...

    Cheers,
    Jim

    --
    -- My Weblog.
    1. Re:Go down to the seashore by Gautama · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >Go down to the seashore and declare a war against the sea. Bill did that just as the tide began to recede, so it looked as though he was
      >winning. But after a while, you realize that how matter how much you kick at the waves, it has no effect.
      >It's a waiting game and we don't have that long to wait...

      Very nice. I have to admit that I like your metaphores.

      But,
      you really don't get it, do you?
      Applause for the form aside, you've missed a few key factors in your wishful thinking:

      Windows works. We may not like it, we may despise their business practices, and we may yearn for the desktop revolution, but the fact remains that Windows serves the purposes of the masses.

      Many of the more vocal Linux advocates are condecending and snotty. Not the majority, but by far, the all-to-yappy minority of Linux evangelists I've had to deal with did little more than alienate me.

      Yes, there are plenty of security problems with MS OS's; but remember, no OS is perfect. A system is only as secure as it's allowed to be, and exploits pop up quicker than boils on a whore's bum. If you do think your OS has no flaws, you most likely need to patch like crazy. Nothing with an OS is perfectly secure.

      Waiting game? What are you waiting for, exactly? Linux is not going to replace MS on the desktop ever. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind it happening (I'm as disgusted by MS's heavy-handed strategies as the next guy around here.) but given their proprietary file formats and universal hardware support, it ain't gonna happen without some major paradigm shifts.

      Of course, these sentiments are going to get me modded down as "Troll", but I really don't care.
      As an IT worker that deals with both MS and *nix worksations and servers on a regular basis, I think my opinion counts for something.

  14. Re:Why Linux isn't on the desktop or never will be by Cato · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Red Hat techie who erased her files was irresponsible and stupid - you don't win people over by switching them without consultation, and particularly not by erasing people's data. However, it's unlikely that this would ever happen outside a Linux-only culture, so it's hardly applicable to the rest of the world. One idiot does not make a trend...

    Linux evangelism needs a lot of work on subtle and effective techniques (as opposed to flaming), but this is not really a good example.

    The biggest stimulus to Linux on the desktop is Microsoft's recent squeezing of its installed based for more revenue through changes to its licensing model - there are several local government and police organisations in the UK that are going to save millions of pounds through switching to Linux.

  15. Americentric thinking by knobmaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Another point to bear in mind is that although Microsoft controls the American desktop market and to a large extent the market in other western democracies, most of the people in the world do not live here.

    That leaves a very large market unexploited. While it may be difficult to imagine your average camel driver as a computer owner, it was even harder 30 years ago to imagine the average American as a computer owner.

    At some point, international aid agencies are going to start distributing simple inexpensive computers to thirdworld villages. If the Linux community is alert, they'll see that these machines are running Linux, and it shouldn't be a hard sell. Linux will run on very inexpensive hardware, is free, and even more important, Linux users are not charged for upgrading their systems in the way that Windows users are.

    The consequences of developing a base of users several billion strong could be enormous. Bright kids are just as likely to be found living in mud huts as in gated communities, and if Linux recruits these kids into the Linux development fold, they will vastly outnumber the developers in the Microsoft camp. The most important asset in the OS wars is sheer brainpower. Microsoft may soon be overwhelmed by a tide of thirdworld coding geniuses.

    So, Linux zealots... join the Peace Corps and spread the Linux meme to the world.

  16. Re:Desktop shipments? Article disqualified. by Jason+Earl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Imagine you worked at a company that had standardized on Windows for the desktop, and you went to the helpdesk because you couldn't get your KDE themes on your Linux laptop to work. Would you be surprised when the help desk folks simply formatted your hard drive and reinstalled Windows?

    If you are going to use non-standard software, then you are going to have to support it yourself, that's how every helpdesk I have ever heard of works. Now most aren't pricks about it. They wouldn't simply format the drive and tell the user to lump it, but they wouldn't help her out either.

    Users get stuck using software that doesn't do the job very well but is the "standard" all of the time. Why should RedHat be any different?

    Besides, switching your OS because the spell checker doesn't know the correct spelling of "web site" (which was the example the article gave) is ridiculous. Especially if you are the web master. Geez, if your webmaster doesn't know how to spell web site, then you truly are screwed.

    Besides, when preparing text for a web site (especially one that would be serving a lot of Linux users) you don't need a word processor, and you especially don't want to be using MS Word. Imagine how the "real" webmasters felt having to pass all of this lady's text through the demoronizer so that it would work with Netscape. And she wondered why they formatted her hard drive. A real BOFH would simply have allowed her to post stories that would be full of '?' for many of her users. Someone should have set up Emacs for her so that it would automatically load flyspell and told her to write her columns in plain text. Using Emacs for this sort of thing is no harder than Using MS Word. In fact, it would be easier.

    Besides, I haven't used Applixware for a while, but it's spellchecker worked fine for me (4 years ago). The whole premise is bogus.

    Either way, you can't expect the helpdesk to support non-standard software, and you can't expect RedHat to standardize on MS Word.