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OpenCores.org ARM Clone Removed From Web

An Anonymous Coward writes: ""A clone of the ARM7 32-bit RISC processor core, previously available free for download from the Internet, has been taken down or hidden" pending discussions between the core's designer and a Chinese representative of ARM Holdings plc (Cambridge, England)." Remember, this is a reverse-engineered "clone in the form of a synthesizable Verilog language description."

12 of 124 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Check your caches, everyone! by morcheeba · · Score: 5, Informative
  2. /.ed already! by merlin_jim · · Score: 2, Informative

    Opencores.org is /.ed...

    google cache here

    Wow, I'm such a karma whore.

    Seriously guys, cool site. FPGAs are dynamically reconfigurable logic circuitry that can emulate almost any other hardware, AT THE HARDWARE LEVEL. Tell it with software how to connect the transistors up, and that's what it does. OpenCores.org focuses on creating CPUs for FPGAs (verilogic being one of the two big manufacturers of FPGAs) that will run standard instruction sets, such as ARM or Intel (mostly focusing on embedded applications, because an FPGA emulating a core is SLOW... they can get up to about 50 MHz clock speed, but not much more)

    Alright, now I don't feel like such a ho'...

    --
    I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
  3. whoopsie daisy! here it is! by Frothy+Walrus · · Score: 3, Informative
  4. IP Theft? by atrowe · · Score: 1, Informative
    The ARM CPU architecture is patented and ARM has sucessfully defended their architecture against IP theft in the past.

    It shouldn't matter how their competitors were able to copy their RISC processors, the important fact here is that the device has been granted a US patent. I'm sure people are going to say that reverse engineering makes it perfectly legal, but that is simply not the case. Reverse engineering protects OpenCores.org from being accused of corporate espionage, by proving that they legally obtained the information necessary to copy the core, but their posting of patented information to their website is what is being argued against. Reverse engineering is nothing more than a legitimate way for engineers to steal the intellectual property of competitors and gain an unfair business advantage. ARM has invested millions of dollars and countless hours into developing their processor core, and they are completely justified in defending what is rightfully theirs against so-called "reverse engineering" patent theft.

    Let's look at it this way, there are hundereds of very simple devices that have received US patents. Ever seen that microwavave bacon cooker advertised on Infomercials? I'm pretty sure that without too much effort, I could figure out how that was made without looking at any of it's inventors design specs. Do I legally have a right to sell my own "reverse engineered" version of someone elses invention? I should think not!

    --

    -atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.

    1. Re:IP Theft? by Ronin+SpoilSpot · · Score: 5, Informative

      > Reverse engineering protects OpenCores.org from
      > being accused of corporate espionage, by proving
      > that they legally obtained the information
      > necessary to copy the core, but their posting of
      > patented information to their website is what is
      > being argued against.

      There are NO rules against posting patented information. In fact, patenting REQUIRES full disclosure. Patents are NOT copyrights!

      > Reverse engineering is nothing more than a
      > legitimate way for engineers to steal the
      > intellectual property of competitors and gain an
      > unfair business advantage.

      Using "legitimate" and "steal" in the same sentence just goes to prove that you have not understood the point of reverse engineerin, or
      of patents for that matter.

      You don't need to prevent reverse engineering if you are protected by a patent. A patent prohibits competitors from creating the same product, even if they reverse engineer it (which should not be necessary anyway, since the information is in the patent application anyway).

      > ARM has invested millions of dollars and
      > countless hours into developing their processor
      > core, and they are completely justified in
      > defending what is rightfully theirs against so-
      > called "reverse engineering" patent theft.

      Patents are not made to reward investment, but to reward products. It doesn't matter if you spent a billion on finding the result or it came to you in a dream.

      > I'm pretty sure that without too much effort, I
      > could figure out how that was made without
      > looking at any of it's inventors design specs.
      > Do I legally have a right to sell my own
      > "reverse engineered" version of someone elses
      > invention? I should think not!

      And you would be right. That would be infringing on their patent. Now, if you found a radically different way to fry bacon in a microwave (more elaborate than putting it on paper tissue while cooking, which has lots of prior art), then you would not infrige on the patent, and would maybe even be eligable for your own patent.

      /RS

  5. Re:Be careful here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    its has THUMB support (1.22 anyway), interrupt handling is provided by the other stuff on opencores, a full copro is available on opencores and VM support was being worked on.

  6. ARM actively protects thier patents, but may loose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    They have sued Pico Turbo, and may have
    threatened others at least one of which seems to
    have caved (Faraday). However, Pico Turbo has
    different view of the ruling issued by the judge
    than ARM does...

    http://www.picoturbo.com/News/Court_Update/court _u pdate.html
    http://www.arm.com/news.ns4/iwpList125/F08341B44 87 4FE3A80256A7200373224?OpenDocument&

    Also note that MIPS also tries to take a simmilar
    stance with instruction set compatible cores.
    Not that these are impossible to write. Have a
    look at http://www.gaisler.com for a SPARCv8
    clone, which is very high quality and complete
    Unlike the nnARM, it's actually complete and
    flexable... Proof of what one/a few talented
    people can do, which should scare the crap out
    of ARM and MIPS

    FWIW, you can't patent an instruction set IMHO.

  7. Re:whats the big deal ? by smasch · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, you can get short-run IC fabrication for a reasonable price. Check out the MOSIS website, they will do fabrication runs of 25 chips or so. For a price example, we did a 3mm by 3mm chip in 0.5 micron Agilent (HP-14B), that cost about $8000 for 25 chips, all packaged. If you are a university student, you may be able to get fabrication donated, so you might want to check that out. I've had one chip made through this program. (It's a PIC16C6x compatible microcontroller, for those interested.) And if you want a layout tool, there is a freely available program called MAGIC that can handle this task (sorry too lazy to find link).

  8. FPGA fun by ajlitt · · Score: 2, Informative

    Lat I checked, Verilog wasn't even a company. I bet you're thinking of Xilinx or Altera. Note that Xilinx gets badass points for providing free development tools that aren't half bad, even if they are for Windoze.

    As far as speed is concerned, there are two big factors that determine how fast you can run a hardware implementation of a design. First, there's the maximum clock speed of the FPGA. This is a parameter of the FPGA used, and, like CPUs, varies with the manufacturer and model. While it is possible to circumvent this with totally asynchronous designs, as you're not required to use the chip-wide clock, it's only practical in only a few unique applications (ARM AMULET). Second, the size of the design will affect the speed at which it will run. A simulation of an Athlon or a Pentium III (excluding large memories, like caches and ROMs) will be forced to run slowly because the propagation delay between far away cells in the FPGAs and, in extreme cases, between individual FPGAs themselves, will be too great to support high clock speeds. Plus, the gate propagation will be slower in an FPGA than on raw silicon. This factor is also somewhat dependent on the HDL CAD tool used and how smart its automatic floor planner is. Now put something simple like an ARM in an FPGA, and you can probably hit much higher speeds.

  9. Re:Chinese totalitarianism by Turmio · · Score: 2, Informative
    Here is the story of how a Russion grad student developed the program that allows one to decrypt the eBook. this looks like yet another case of the American government meatheads forcibly repressing free speech and damaging the natural development of internatiocal (tech) society.

    remind me why should one still call the US the Land of the Free?

    Just a thought...

  10. Re:Utterly ridiculous, and I've designed with an A by svirre · · Score: 3, Informative

    Having a synthesizable core does NOT mean that you can just drop it into any modern design. The deliverables for a commercially usable core are significant. Typically you need the following:

    * Verilog code.


    I'd rather have VHDL, but i can always synthesize a gate level VHDL description at a cost to simulation speed.

    * TWO sets of timing constraints in Synopsys SDC format - one for synthesis, the other for static timing analysis and back-end physical design (i.e. defined clocks, high fanout nets like resets/selects, false/multicycle paths, case analysis statements for setting fastest propagation mode through the design).

    While false path and multicycle path information must be provided if such exist, other timing constraints will be determined by the surrounding design, and must be selected by the system designer anyway.

    Given the RTL description, constraints are a small matter.

    * Synthesis scripts, which have specific mappings to the standard-cell libraries of the particular process (except if implemented in an FPGA).


    Erm... if you can't even do that, what on earth are you doing with that expensive synopsys licence. gimme... ;-)

    Seriously, you can't excpet the supplier of a MCU core to set up your synthesis tool for you.

    * SRAM macro definitions and how they plug into the Verilog code (again, highly library/process specific and not relevant for an FPGA, assuming you can find enough on-board FPGA SRAM to equal the caches necessary for the ARM7)


    Memory are usually provided by separate suppliers anyway. Given adequate information on the core's memory interface a small piece of glue logic would be quick to assemble. (Some do cores come with a MMU, which makes the job somewhat easier though)

    * All JTAG-related files, including BSDL and tap controller specs.


    Not really neccecary, and not really associated with MCU core.

    * Scan and functional test vectors for Verilog VCS or NC-Verilog to show the core works.


    Some of the point of an ip module is that you should have a reasonable excpectation that it is already verified. Functional testing of the core should therefore not be neccecary (though in this case I would propably do some verification myself)

    Production testvectors are generated during synthesis, and are dependent of the synthesis environment and libraries, and thus not associated with the MCU core.

  11. Re:Check your caches, everyone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    It seems to be in my cache directory here