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Borland Releases Kylix 2
Tal Cohen writes "Borland Kylix 2 is now available. Most new features are geared at Enterprise-level developers; the Open edition is still available for free download. The CLX (cross-platform component library) is covered under both GNU and Borland's license." The new features list is interesting - a fair number of buzzwords, but it also looks like they are supporting a lot of the new stuff. The white papers have some interesting topics - including gcc vs. Kylix.
I think it's too late for Borland. Maybe two years before ...
But now I think it's too late. Kdevelop and the recently released kdestudio 3.0 gold is playing hard.
greetings,
lekter
http://www.hispacluster.org
I just read the "what's new" page and I got e-buzz word whip lash...
They should put up some damn warnings or something.
i.e. : Build Web Services-enabled database middleware with DataSnap(TM) that scales and interoperates with your complete e-business solution...
Ok, now a serious question... is ANYONE out there using this? I've read the reviews, I read some tutorials, and my interest is sparked, but I want to here some testimony.
I spoke to a Borland rep at a trade show 2 weeks ago. She told me the beta would be available early next year.
I started programming with TurboC and Turbo Assembler. I'm now using Builder 5. The drag'n'drop interface is very nice, as are the make files (which are XML,btw). Borland has always had very good compilers, and the STL they use is quite nice. They also ship printed documentation, for those of us who actually rtfm. As soon as they have the C++ version done (RSN for about a year now), I'll buy it.
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If so, then you can write PDA applications for the Sharp device in the previous story using Kylix/Delphi/Pascal++.
Not that any non-Delphi person would want to, in my opinion ;)
Of course, I am basing all this on the assumption that Kylix actually currently uses QT as the base GUI component set, via its own intermediary toolkit abstraction. If I am wrong here, please correct me.
that introduced the $49 IDE back in 84, and have consistently turned out more standards-compliant C++ compilers than you know who. And your tastes obviously don't count for much if they lead you to that opinion about Object Pascal. It's still considered by many one of the most advanced and elegant natively compiled languages around. OTOH Forte is certainly not considered the greatest IDE by many. But then again, those are YOUR tastes.
I don't see much competition among the all-in-one development environments for Linux. Kylix is an attempt to become the MS Visual Studio of Linux. I don't see anything else as broad as this. KDevelop is kind of a Turbo C app. I'm not familiar with KDE Studio, but it seems to be the only real competition.
Developers, and especially companies, really want the grand development environment that nicely brings everything together. That's exactly why every Windows developer eventually dropped Borland's array of products and went to MS Visual Studio.
Borland here is trying to keep up with the times and learn from the past. I think this is a great step for Linux.
Developers: We can use your help.
Has someone of you used this to port Delphi app to
Linux? I had a nice free LGPL-covered application, that
I wanted to compile using kylix open edition. But a lot of things are different.I see a lot of units, like QDialog, QForm, etc. under Linux, but they're counterparts in Windows are Dialog, Form, etc. So is there any sourcecode compatibility? Is there a tool for doing this?
And just what is wrong with Pascal? I happen to think it's a wonderful language - it can be depended on. I'd rather use Delphi/Pascal ANY DAY rather than program in any version of BASIC.
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
They definitely don't make it easy to "register" for the download -- first they want all sorts of personal info that really shouldn't be required (phone #, street address, etc...) - THEN, if you don't fill out EVERY field (including those not marked as required), and say "YES" to all of the spam checkboxes at the bottom, their javascript form handler balks at you.
Not to mention that you *have* to have javascript enabled to even register...
I was going to check it out -- but I *refuse* to give them free reign to spam me by phone, fax, email, and snal mail for the privilege of doing so.
They won't be sued. Kylix and Klyx are completly different apps. The name Kylix isn't stolen from Klyx. Like Delphi is also the name of a greek goddess, a Kylix is a greek fruitbowl of some sort.
It has always been common knowledge that a key to Microsoft's dominance is making things easy for programmers so that they develop for the Windows platform. Is it just me has there been a real drop-off of interest by developers in all things Microsoft?
.Net and C#. Surely with Windows being the dominant platform, and .Net being Microsoft's new technical strategy, you'd expect some excited discussion about it amongst developers, but it's just not happening.
I remember there was a time about five years ago when most developers wouldn't even consider developing for anything other than Windows technologies and developer's magazines reflected that. These days, however, I see very little excitement about Microsoft technologies, for instance, I don't see lot of enthusiasm amongst developers about
This is just a feeling I have, and I have been trying to think of a way to quantify it, if nothing else to prove to myself that this sea-change is actually occurring and not just because I now take my information from different sources. The simple metric I have come up with is this - the number of times a word occurs on Google:
Linux - 30,100,000
Microsoft - 20,100,000
This crude metric seems to suggest that Linux has 10m more pages than all of Microsoft's products put together. Seeing as Microsoft has such a dominant position in the desktop space and is still much more of a household name than Linux, I think this is quite a clear demonstration that there is a lot more material about Linux out there than about Microsoft's products.
This came as a suprise:
"Linus Torvalds" - 640,000
"Bill Gates" - 649,00
I would have expected Bill Gates (who's a household name) to occur a lot more than Linus.
This is also suprising:
"Internet Explorer" - 2,730,000
Mozilla - 2,730,000
"Linux developer" - 20,600
"Windows developer" - 12,200
Is it just me, or do these figures suggest that Microsoft should be very worried indeed?
Are you nuts. This product kicks butt compared to all the other IDE wannbes. Borland is the only alternative to Microsoft and doing a great job producing the best tools. It's revenues and share price (and profits) are all up up up.
What is there not to like?
Kylix used WineLibs, not wine - which are different.
Wine is to run windows applications
winelibs are to link against winelibaries during compilation - ie, you have a windows application, and you want to compile it under linux - easier porting.
Yes, in Kylix 1 the IDE was sluggish.
Kylix 2 has less dependecy on WINELIBS, but it is still there. You can see postings on borlands news server - http://newsgroups.borland.com .
Hopefully K2 IDE will be alot faster.
I don't see where anyone has mentioned that this should be good for some businesses. In the case of a shop with split MS/Linux computers, they can write one internal business app in a RAD environment that will run on both of their systems. This allows for the good productivity of a RAD tool with the portability of Java, C, etc.
It could also be an incentive to switch over to Linux - they could have their apps written in Delphi on Windows, and then move as slowly/quickly as they want when converting to Linux without necessitating major code porting. In a slow economy, cost savings are of more obvious importance to management.
Of course, all previously MS-only code (VB, etc) would still need to be reworked, but there are benefits to be had for businesses looking at Kylix.
If Kylix takes off, it could really be a boon for Linux.
Alas, you are equating apples to oranges.
First, I am not a Java developer. But, I am aware that one of the biggest problems facing the JBuilder team was the diversity of Java VMs (i.e. some worked and some don't). JBuilder allows you to target multiple Java VMs with ease and that was a bane to releasing a "stable" product. They worked with the various Java VM teams (Blackdown is one that comes to mind) to make it compatible. JB3 was a blacksheep product. JB4 fixed many issues and JB5 is now the current product.
After having coded in C, C++, the forsaken VB and a slew of other languages, I discovered Delphi in 1994. I haven't looked back since.
Why? Because it has enabled me and my teams to develop applications in a fraction of the time that C++ would have required and substantially more stable and reliable than VB has ever been. My Delphi apps came in on or ahead of schedule and don't crash. IMO, Delphi is a secret weapon when you need to get high quality, database applications out to the market place when under a tight schedule.
Yes, Delphi has had its bogus releases (Delphi 4 in particular). D3 was very stable and D5 fixed D4. D6 now offers cross platform development capability (if you use the CLX library) via Kylix. The language, Object Pascal, is not the same as Pascal just as C++ is not C. I suggest you take a few hours and learn the differences between Object Pascal and Pascal. The only real downside to Object Pascal is it is more verbose than the equivalent C/C++ code. But, then again, it's also a lot easier to understand and maintain (a side benefit of its Pascal roots).
Kylix has bugs (just as any major new tool does). Blame that on both errors in the Kylix tool itself as well as buggy Linux distros (RH in particular). To me, the only bug that really affects me in Kylix is the fact that TThread is broke. Did they fix it in K2? Let's hope so.
My point being, is that you had a bad experience with a single Borland tool. Never mind the fact that many other development shops gave it high praise...you had a bad experience.
Before you blast Borland for putting out "inferior products at insane prices", I suggest you learn more about their products, read some serious critical reviews and then try the products yourself. You may come to realize just how far off base your statements really are.
As for the high prices...well, I can't dispute that. They did it to keep pace with Microsoft. Why? Because how can a product be good when it costs so little? Surely that other product that costs twice as much must be twice as good. Right? By that reasoning, I guess that means that Open Source and Free software must really suck. We know that's not true. FWIW, Borland now appears to be reviewing their pricing structure.
I've been using Borland products since the early eighties, and the most I've gotten is a few mailings telling me about events in my area, product updates, and an occasional bit of free stuff. I typically tweek my address to catch/track spammers (e.g. misspell my name), and I've never had anyone else send me something using the address I gave Borland. In short, I'd trust them.
-- MarkusQ
> And just what is wrong with Pascal?
:= for assign? Just give me the dam equal sign already! :)
Not trolling or meaning to start a "holy war", as this is just a personal opinion:
- Declarations are backwards, due to the awkward grammer: name type
Compared to the more logical C/C++ way: type name
- The distinction between functions and procedures (the language sports an artifical difference.) The lack of parenthesis in the declaration make it difficult to quickly visually spot functions.
- Operators, or the lack of them (no bit shifts, scope operator, namespaces?) i.e.
- Too wordy. { } are don't clutter my code whitespace, like 'begin' 'end' do.
In short, I just hate how the language looks.
It's the same as a person liking one spoken language over another. Sure they both can explain concepts, but which one is more compact, and is "fluent" for the person?
Pascal is a great teaching language, and Delphi is very impressive (Borland has always had lightning fast compiles on their Pascal languages, due to the grammar.) But I'd rather take a language I hate less (C/C++) then one that gives me a grammer that I hate (Pascal & sons.)
I like the multiparadigm support of C++.
i.e. procedural, object orientated, and generic programming paradigms.
For me, Pascal++ is just plain wrong, but if you're productive at using it, hey, more power to you!
Cheers
Actually, single pass compilation makes sod all difference. A pass to scan a parsed file for declarations might take 1% of your time if that. Putting all the declarations at the top is more of a Pascal convention for declaring your interfaces than anything else.
The main compilation-time advantages Pascal has over C/C++ are a simple, elegant langauge syntax, no complex preprocessor, general avoidance of header files, and the fact that modules ("units" in OP-speak) are almost always pre-compiled into a format that makes linking quick (these also double as pseudo-header files). Add to all that the fact that Borland are simply very good compiler writers.
Of course, you lose stuff from C++ that some people (including myself) use a lot such as macros, templates, multiple inheritance etc. Whether you actually need these is debatable, but their exclusion certainly makes for a clean language that is pretty beginner and maintainer friendly.
Last time I used Borland Pascal, it was also pretty good at stuff like dead-code elimination - not sure how GCC compares there.
Having used both Visual Studio and Delphi, I can honestly say that Borland is way aheead in the Visual development stakes. If anything, it has been MS playing catch up in terms of tool quality.
Borland lost out to Visual Studio because of that little thing called the OS monopoly. Companies wanted the assurance that their tools are very closely tied to the OS. Borland's products are still IMO much better, and given the much leveller playing field on Linux I really hope they can succeed.
Basically, if you haven't played with Delphi/Kylix before I seriously suggest you give it a shot. It's free to try, goddamit, and I'm sure most good coders can suspend their disdain for Pascal for long enough to realise that it's actually pretty damn good.
You truly are clueless, aren't you? This isn't about the average slashdotter. The need for a high productivity development environment for Linux is essential to move Linux into the mainstream and for its widespread acceptance in the business world supported by the IT community.
While the argument that there are powerful, free tools for Linux holds. The generally accepted Open Source model for development tools simply will not cut it in a real IT shop. Tools used by IT shops need to be stable, robust, and supported. I like knowing that I can pick up the phone and get somebody when there is a problem that I don't have the immediate time or resources to solve. That's what I pay for.
Users (business and home) want their favorite applications (or a strong competitor) available for an OS before they will accept it. These two areas are the niches where Delphi 6 and Kylix fill. D6 and Kylix do deliver what they promise. I can attest to that.
Pascal as a language is generally dead. The modernized Object Pascal is an OOP language that meets many of the requirements of C++ programs. Object Pascal is far from dead. On the Windows platform, it is very viable. Because of the type safety inherent in the language, it's pretty hard to screw up development of simple apps. Yes, for pointers you need to do a few odd things. That's why we have class refernces. These are basically smart pointers. But, the object model is quite robust and capable.
The underlying language is not dependent upon the visual elements you seem so quick to condemn. However, when a Delphi 6 or Kylix developer can sit down, write, test and deploy a SOAP service in under 10 minutes (yes..it was canned..but demonstrated at Borcon 2001)....well that's pretty amazing. Even more amazing is that with little effort, you have CGI, DSO, or ISAPI modules to fit almost any web server.
These services have all the native support of Delphi's (and Kylix's) database and internet connectivity, a highly interactive development environment and a fully capable and visual debugger.
Okay..I sound like a sales person. But, I'll tell you. After working with C, C++, VB, Powerbuilder and a slew of other languages, Delphi kicks butt on the Windows platform. The advent of Kylix and CLX on Linux will enable those same high powered productity and business apps developed using Delphi to be run on Linux. That's what it's all about...it's not a language war...it's about viability.