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First Review of Sharp's new Linux-based PDA
A reader writes "In this article, just posted at LinuxDevices.com, embedded developer Jerry Epplin takes a close-up look at Sharp's new Zaurus SL-5000D Linux/Java PDA developer edition, from both a user and developer point of view. In the article, Epplin says the SL-5000D demonstrates that "Linux has reached maturity as an operating system for handheld devices", and concludes by saying "Overall, the polish and quality of integration of the environment and applications are excellent. Their documentation and support are first rate.""
Ladies and Gentlemen, we give you the Anti-WinCE.
-Evan
from news.kde.org :
(this PDA runs Qt/PDA)
Trolltech and Sharp have announced a really spiffy-looking Linux palmtop, named "Zaurus". The device itself features a sliding (retractable) keyboard, a color display, a CF expansion slot (for memory or peripherals), an SD expansion slot (for secure memory storage or other peripherals), an IR port, a USB connector and a headset port. On the software side, the Zaurus uses Lineo's Embedix Linux; Trolltech's Qt/Embedded, Qt/Palmtop and Qt AWT GUI technologies; Insignia Solution's Jeode PDA Edition; and Opera Software's embedded web browser. Sharp is accepting pre-orders from the developer community for the SL-5000D developer unit (register here). With the continuing additions to kdenox, this might just be a great platform for KOffice/embedded.
Read More...
.. and I predict it will be buried in my closet in 30 days or less...
Why? It's just another novelty. A few apps will be developed for it, sure, but without community support that's where it will stop. I'm sure it runs linux and that's all well and nice, but you know how DIFFICULT it is to make a application that will run in that space and actually be usable?
If you'd like a PDA for daily use as a useful TOOL check out http://www.handhelds.org those folks have got it nailed down to an art, with nice apps being release seems like every day.
Since the rejoinder to any WinCE machine is "Does it run Linux", I'm sure curious as to whether it runs Windows. Some geeks are interested in Windows machines, too, you know.
>The keyboard itself is
similar to those found on the Blackberry email devices; you need some practice to get to
the point of pressing only one key at a time.
is there really any advantage having a 'real' keyboard thats so small - i've been using my palm pilot for a couple of years now and i'm quite happy with the onscreen keyboard.
in my opinion, the best bet would be to combine the two, have a touch sensitive keyboard layout separate from the screen.
phil.
Fry: heh, Yakov Smirnoff said it
Leela: No he didn't.
I took a look at QTs web site a few months ago, and was quite impressed with what they'd come up with for a handheld environment. And if you're curious, go take a look. Trolltech offers a demo disk to try it out on an x86 (self-bootable floppy). Here's the link.
- di sks.html
http://www.trolltech.com/developer/download/qpe
I read the article but couldn't actually get an idea of the Zaurus' autonomy.
Could somebody answer me.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Its a PDA! I want it to do that!
Palm really has it figured out: apps that take very little memory or power, and a good handwriting recognition system.
WinCE and Pocket Windows just try to embed Windows, including the lack of speed and horrible handwriting recognition.
Now we give Linux a go. So far, it hasn't really been much of a PDA, just a port. If you have a full sized keyboard (not a little dinky one that's hard to use like this one), and a way to hook up a mouse, then you're fine. Barring that, the user interface is a pain.
What's my point? Use whatever codebase you want! Just give me an easy way to access and input my data - that's exactly what a personal digital assistant is for - NOT for general purpose computing, like a desktop.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
A PDA Like this looks like it could be a real hoot to play with, but I still don't think it compares with the Palm Pilot. And it doesn't seem powerful enough to be the kind of Linux toy that I really want. And these things are never going to reach the price/performance ratio of something like a Gameboy. That is what I would really like is something around the price of a gameboy that runs linux and lets me write fairly simple games for. Or how about something about the size of a tomigachi that you could write games for and easily download them over a serial cable. And maybe access that serial cable from the games so you could interconnect them. Is there something like that available?
Sean Lane Fuller - The truth is out there!
I was originally going to post something negative here, but as I read the article, I came across this article on what Century Software has done working with the distro from handhelds.org. And other open software, like FLTK. FLTK is a neat tool kit that uses OpenGL as its window renderer, and pretty much works on any os that has OpenGL libraries.
I was impressed enough to revise my original opinion of Linux on a PDA. Which was the thought that it is neat to run Linux on a PDA, but why bother? I use a PDA to sync my calendar and emails. Everytime msoft changes express or whatever, the linux equivelants are broken, so why fight it?
But in reading what Century has done, well, it hasn't changed that opinion, but their package is cool enough that it makes me want to install it on my Ipaq anyway.
Sure, this device may not seem that useful now, but in the future (if developers find that it is a viable open source platform)it may be useful for students and scientists in the future. If someone wanted to write a special program to say, calculate the materials required to hold a certain mass on a bridge, they could just port it to the PDA and not worry about lugging around a laptop or waiting to use their PC back at the office if they needed this kind of information in the field. This is just one example, but I am sure that many of you already have apps that you would like to port to a PDA.
(There's also the Trolltech announcement, if you are interested in some pictures.)
My friend, that was sweetness.
I'll stick with my Palm as an organizer, and with the iPaq using the Familiar distribution for developing special purpose handheld software. You can pooh-pooh X11 all you want, it works well, it uses no more resources than QTE, it's free, and it manages to run Gtk+, FLTK, wxWindows, and Qt, all on the same screen.
"Overall, the polish and quality of integration of the environment and applications are excellent. Their documentation and support are first rate."
...yeah, you only have to dig through six thousand HOWTOS before you find out your FeebleVetzer 3401 isn't supported because no potato-chip eating slacker decided to write a driver for it in a fit of pique one day. And when you get angry about this, the answer is: "So write one yourself!"
Linux: OS of Assholes.
Clearly, this is a battle that Linux can win. One of the big strengths of Linux is its scalability. The other is the ability to compile on multiple platforms. These strengths MUST be exploited for Linux to be a strong commercial success.
If there are 2 fronts where Linux can win, it is in the handheld arena and the server arena. It's my opinion that (for now, at least) the desktop war is futile. It will take a great deal of time before Linux can gain substantial ground in the desktop market. BUT, the handheld market can easily be dominated by Linux within the next few years. The only problem is that of an interface.
The Qt Palmtop Environment (QPE) is nice, but not nice enough. The interface borrows too much from WinCE to stand out. Another issue is that of Qt's licensing. Look at the PalmOS software sites. There are hundreds of programs available, many of them free. There are also programs which cost less than $20. This is a big motivating factor for many developers. Because of Qt's licensing, a developer would have to shell out $2400 in order to sell a simple $15 program he/she wrote. I think that this is cost prohibitive for many people. And, as we have all seen in the past, a platform is only as good as the applications available for it.
These issues can be overcome by Qt (or another organization) releasing a library that has a reasonable (or free) cost, and can be used for commercial handheld development. Not all developers want to create free software. Many would like to be able to make $5 or $10 from their prodcuts. The second thing that needs to happen is an innovative interface. One such project is the Onyx PDA project. Work has been developing on this for a while, and it's quite impressive. It will be GPL, and is based on Qt 3.x. Look for a SourceForge project site for it really soon. I met with the guy developing it and he gave me a little demo, and it was looking good. The game plan he has laid out for it sounds like it could be very good for users, as well as a lot of fun for developers.
If you know how to type and do not have baby hands, this tiny keyboard will not help you.
If you know how to type, it is likely that your hands know where the keys are, but you eyes do not.
Second, Sharp is setting up a totally Free developer site for the unit. Free as in Speech as well. After the disappointing "They just don't get it" with the Yopi, this is the first real, corporate sponsored open source development site for a device that I've seen. Most companies just "tolerate" open dev sites (like those for the Palm or Tivo).
Third, a keyboard (and I've no experience with this format, but have seen people get quite fast with the blackberry in a week) makes shell commands easy. And this puppy has a shell! We'll see if it's there on the consumer unit, but here's hoping it will be. Ironic that the minimalistic commands created for teletype (ls, rm, mv, cp, etc) make this the perfect environment for a minikeyboard. "cp Myf[tab]~[enter]" is 10 keypresses.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Second, Sharp is setting up a totally Free developer site for the unit. Free as in Speech as well. After the disappointing "They just don't get it" with the Yopi, this is the first real, corporate sponsored open source development site for a device that I've seen. Most companies just "tolerate" open dev sites (like those for the Palm or Tivo).
Third, a keyboard (and I've no experience with this format, but have seen people get quite fast with the blackberry in a week) makes shell commands easy. And this puppy has a shell! We'll see if it's there on the consumer unit, but here's hoping it will be. Ironic that the minimalistic commands created for teletype (ls, rm, mv, cp, etc) make this the perfect environment for a minikeyboard. "cp Myf[tab]~[enter]" is 10 keypresses.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
we'd have to get a huge group of people together to put in hundreds of hours to create a windows-like OS that has none of the original source code. After that, we could license it in a way that anyone can change the original source, but they have to let others change and improve their source in turn. After that, I bet we could even port into a PC architecture!
No one is going to calcualte the materials needed for a bridge while standing there overlooking a river. Maybe 1000 years ago when they were deciding exactly how many logs needed to support three columns of heavy cavalry, but not today. Surveyors go out and take measurements. Engineers go out and take core samples of the ground. They do traffic surveys. Once the data is gathered, then they design the bridge. They don't design it in bits and pieces in the field.
PDAs have found limited use in the field, but mostly to gather data and take notes. That data is fed later into a full sized 'puter that does the number crunching and spits out results.
For example, in many places around the world forest and park rangers use PDAs to track animal sightings. Sure, with a powerful PDA they could crunch those numbers, but what would it mean? Nothing. Not until all the data from all the rangers is collected, then you have useful data about animal numbers, migration patterns, etc. Data from one unit is pretty useless by itself.
Still, assuming with wireless, you communicate with other wireless units and manage to do some collective computing to get the results. Now what does the ranger do with the data while in the field? The data will be useful in the larger picture, but for the individual ranger? Maybe he can tell hikers which parts of his range the bears are gathering.
Which comes to the point, it will probably find a niche. But I doubt it will make any significant impact.
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
Download development documentation and tools.
Any Java applications that run in this environment will also run on the models that will be introduced for international markets, starting with the US market. There is an added business benefit for developers in that Java applications developed in this fashion will extend your business opportunities in the Japanese market.
While this is nice, and the PDA itself is stellar looking, it's not exactly free. If I can't download and compile newer versions of BASH, for example, Sharp is taking less than full advantage of freedom's blessings. The same thing can be said of all the software that runs the platform itself. I'd like someone to tell me that I've overlooked something. If not, Sharp has failed to grasp how free software works.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
According to the LinuxDevices link, the battery life is from 2 hours (backlight on) to eight hours (backlight off). Am I missing something? What good is a PDA that can't even go a full workday without suckling from the electrical teat? I'd gladly accept a smaller monochrome screen, a slower processor, and less memory if that meant a battery life that was at least a couple of days. As a point of reference, my Visor (which meets the above description) goes for several weeks on a pair of rechargeable NiMH AAA batteries. No matter how cool the technology in the Zaurus might be, it doesn't seem all that useful with such a short battery life.
Anyone who's thinking of buying something like this should stop to consider whether it's worth spending $400 for a few days of "gee whiz" before the new toy ends up in the bottom of the junk drawer with all of the other "seemed like a good idea at the time" gadgets. There are much more cost-effective forms of entertainment.
Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
Flame suit on, but whats the point of this? I bought an iPaq last week with the intention of putting one of the various Linux distributions on it, but haven't.
Why? Simple. I decide that I, like the vast majority of people who buy PDA's, want to use it for something more than a gimmicky toy.
I hate Microsoft products as much as the next guy -- I've been running Linux since 1992, almost exclusively. I have precisely one PC running a Microsoft OS (a Toshiba Libretto that I use for running diagnostic and performance data logging software for my car, which only runs on Windows). But the iPaq will be staying Pocket PC until there are applications available for it on Linux. (But of course, will they be QT applications or X applications?)
Examples:
Media Player 7.1 rocks on the iPaq. Nice big compact flash card and I can carry a movie or at least a TV show to watch on the train.
Vindigo: no problem finding restaurants or bars in Boston. Always know what movies are available.
Avantgo: I have 4 meg of news cached on it, very handy over the weekend when the girlfriend was off shopping, or I was waiting for the T.
Pocket Streets: Well, anyone who's ever driven in Boston would immediately see the usefulness of this.
Mame: Well, duh. I hope this is at least avaiable on Linux for the iPaq.
Dashboard: Excellent replacement UI for Pocket PC.
It pains me (a lot) to say it, but Microsoft has a superior product. Source code for the OS is of no fundamental use to me -- this isn't a desktop box. License fees are clearly negligible. The iPaq was $299 for a 64 meg model, essentially with the same hardware specs as this one running Linux, only $100 cheaper.
So where's the benefit other than the sheer geekiness of it? Being able to say I CAN run Linux on it covers that need in my soul, plus if anyone rips on me I can point out I hacked Linux onto three Virgin WebPlayers, an Audrey (sort of), and an iOpener at home, and my Tivo has ethernet. Installing Linux on foreign hardware just isn't that cool any more.
So basically, this Linux-on-a-PDA craze is interesting from an intellectual standpoint, but its a LONG ways away from being commercially useful, and this product will probably bomb as quickly as every other non-compatible PDA out there. Especially at $400+!
Where did you get a 37xx for $299? I've been looking, and even the 36xx series go for $350-400...
thanks...
It's a very nice handheld. The SD and CF support is very nice (like Handera). I like the screen a lot, it's very crisp and readable, and it has good performance. You can program it in Java (Personal Java 1.2 compliant, which means a JDK 1.1.8 level, but still pretty good, and with some Java2 extensions) or Linux (you can download the cross-compilation tools from Sharp's develop site at http://developer.sharpsec.com). The Qt Palmtop is a good start, but my complaint is too much emphasis on flash (3D icons) and not enough on some nice features (like categories in the address book). I also wish it had a single-button beam feature for a business card (like the Palm's all do). It beats the crap out of an Agenda VR-3 or an iPaq running PocketLinux. If you look at it as their first entry in the market, then it's a great first step.
Arg, you just mentioned you have a girlfriend. They all hate you now.
The Zaurus series has been around for ages, and the PDA have been more advanced (until recent) than most in the US. Last time I've checked out a Zaurus, about two years ago, in Japan, Zaurus as car navigation helpers plus internet access were big.
Curiously, like the electronics with magneto-optical technology (MO and MD), Zaurus hasn't been as big in the States as it was in Japan.
The only reason I use a PDA is to keep my contacts and schedule, maybe a note here and there. I recently got a Palm-powered cell phone and pitched my PDA. Anybody else wondering if PDA enabled cell phones will kill the standalone PDA market?
FM
Frank W. Miller
CompUSA, last week they had a $399 sale with a $100 rebate. I think the rebate is still going on, but I think the sale ended, so its probably more like $350 after rebate now.
At least the Sharp has a USB port (unlike the unreliable Agenda) so you can network these quickly obsolete handhelds and create a Beowulf cluster ... a supercomputer in your pocket(s) (with an X11 interface!).
And I have to say that it is the first PDA that I like better than my aging Pilot (original U.S Robotics Palm, upgraded to a 3). I use linux on my laptop and my home machine and I am a professional java developer. This thing is exactly what I have been looking for. Now I can easily write custom software for my PDA. I could never get into the whole palm development mess. Just to mac-ish for my tastes.
Also, this thing uses the same Li-ion batteries as my Canon S100 camera, so I can carry around a spare and use it in either (the Canon really, really likes batteries...).
Maybe I'm out of touch, but this thing is fast. I mean, there is this 3d java applet that was packed on it and it just flew. The guy who owned it told me that there is supposed to be a 802.11b option coming out for it. Must... control... urge... to spend... money...
(p.s. The keyboard rocks. Noodling around in the terminal was great)
I hope one day Linux will stop using X windows too actually ..
You have the X source.
You have the hardware docs.
You have the right to modify the source.
I seem to recall seeing on ./ that there is a serious effort going on to produce a very lightweight X again.
Just because sharp haven't done everything for you doesn't mean it is useless - it looks like it could be the toy that the Newton promised to be but never was (even the calculator app used undocumented features).
Try, but it still should be easier than porting to a palm.I've left mine off-cradle all day, and it's done everything I've asked of it.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
I am hoping that a Linux PDA will offer
Linux features (not available on WinCE),
like perl! And, would love to have my perl
Linux/Win-compatible PIM on a palmtop device.
However, I understand the Sharp Linux PDA
does not come with perl, and I do not know
how difficult it would be to load perl.
Any thoughts on this?
Well, on the iPaq, you can actually compare this on the same hardware: I find X11 runs better than WinCE (in addition to being more robust and easier to program).
I haven't been able to do a side-by-side comparison with Qt/Embedded, but according to Troll Tech's own specs, it seems to require more resources than X11.
At least the Sharp has a USB port
The Sharp hardware is nice. Let's hope they'll see the light and support a completely standard Linux environment.