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NVidia NV17M Mobile GPU Preview
Mathew Solnik writes: "A year ago nVidia set the laptop world on fire with the release of the GeForce2 Go mobile graphics chipset. Today they push the envelope with the release of the NV17M mobile graphics chipset. Offering unmatched performance in 3D gaming applications, the NV17M promises to put nVidia at the forefront of high end graphics solutions for mobile systems. This GPU is much faster then the Geforce2 Go and is more or less the Geforce3 for laptops. Check out AMDZone for the preview." Pretty incredible how powerful laptops are, even given their lag behind desktop performance. This is far more powerful than any video card I've ever owned.
<insert obligatory overheating joke here> Anyway, please pick the submissions a little more carefully. I don't want to read press releases on Slashdot.
when is nVidia going to get to work on the desperate need for graphically accelerated pda's?
It sounds like the polygon count is high enough, so are laptops a viable gaming platform? (sure would make it easier to attend those LAN parties and smoke pot ... oh wait...)
- Cheers,
- RLJ
Not so much for gaming but in my last job I talked to many people who wanted "awesome gfx" on their laptops to do presentations using high end (http://www.ptc.com) cad/cam packages. It was just easier in many cases for them to do the presentation on a laptop. That is one of the business reasons for this.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
I just don't see a reason, honestly, for having 'awesome gfx' in a laptop.
Maybe not all the time but...
I've stopped using my desktop machines and moved myself over fulltime to my laptop and docking stations. (I work in three different locations, and it was too much work keeping all three computers in sync with each other.)
I'm pleased with all that my laptop lets me do - but to tell the truth, the graphics are pretty slow. I usually play 2-D games (like Age of Empires) and I miss my Matrox card on my desktop while I watch the screen "chunk" by on the laptop.
So... it would be nice to have the power for gaming available if I wanted to use it.
But I still probably just going to buy a console after Christmas. (I'm waiting to see which one emerges as the favorite (hoping for Gamecube...))
In illa quae ultra sunt
Gaming on a laptop is unwieldy. Even though my laptop gets perfect FPS in TFC at 1024X768, I'd still much rather play it on my desktop (which also gets perfect frame rates). Even if I felt like installing my keyboard and mouse on my laptop, gaming on it just doesn't seem right. Besides, unless you're rich and have plenty of time to sit and play multiplayer games on your laptop away from home, a desktop is perfect for gaming usually.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
-the small screen
You can connect the laptop to a monitor, or even a big screen TV in your living room. Moving a laptop to the living room is a lot easier than moving your desktop.
-the cramped keyboard
Who plays games with a keyboard? Get a gamepad or a joystick.
-the battery life....
It should be easy enough to find a electric outlet if you're indoor. When I carry my laptop on the go, I rarely have to use my battery.
OK if this doesn't make you drool, then you must be at the wrong web site.
I can see Nvidia's next generation GPU to have embeded DRAM. This one is soo close.
I never saw the point myself
great you can mangle triangles and blit them to the screen fast
OR
have 2 hours more working time
now on a trip on a train which would you rather have
intel have finally woken up to power with transmeta breathing down their backs and you guys want to waste it useing these cards.
hell Xscale / MIPS with a LCD controller on chip is way for me
regards
john jones
Think about more complex scenes where framerate drops below 75fps. A faster GPU will probably fix this and that *will* improve playability. Remember, It's not about the number of frames you get when staring at a wall, it's the framerate you get when you're blasting away on an open plane with 50 enemies surrounding you.
-adnans
"In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
Yes, this is a silly comparison:
NV17M Marcus' home PC
_____________________________
350MHz 200MHz
64MB 32MB
2048*1536 640*320
1 square inch 2 square feet
Erm. Quake? Whats that....
A friend of mine has a P3 1gig + geforce2go, I have a tbird 700 + geforce2gts. His outperforms mine in UT - he plays at 1600*1200, I play 1024*768. Its pretty impressive. The disadvantage of laptops, however, is price - a high-end AMD system can be built for aruond $600 + monitor, whereas a laptop costing that much would most likely be slow and have a terrible quality display.
My server
I'm beginning to doubt the performance ratings. The 17M rates at 40.9 fps for Max Payne at 1024x768x16, and 79.5 fps for Q3 at 1024x768x32. It also says for relative performance that in Q3, the 17M outperforms the GF2Go by 5x, and in Max Payne by 3.5x. I know for a fact that this cannot be the case, because I have an Inspiron 8000.
Here are the benchmarks for my system:
Q3 1024x768x32: 49.7. High Detail.
Max Payne 1024x768x16: (no FPS display, definitely playable, I'd say ~24). Max Detail.
The system is a 1ghz/256M running Windows 2000. Unless NVidia's benchmarks were done on say, a 500mhz laptop, I'd imagine much better performance than what they'd note; especially nothing that NONE of the benchmarks broke the 100 fps mark, when according to my numbers, they should have creamed it (Q3 1024 at 5X GF2 should have been 250 fps, and Max Payne should have been near 90).
Small screen? Are you high? 14.1" is very nearly a 17" CRT! Some high-end laptops are touting a 15" screen even. Max resolution (or should I say 'optimized resolution'?) is somewhere in the 1500x1400 range.
Cramped keyboard? Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't close keys a BOON while gaming? No more having to stretch to reach ctrl-7 - the keys are MUCH closer together.
Uhm...if you game, and are on battery power... Why aren't you using the power block? Laptops aren't *always* about being on battery power.
Mobility does not necessarily mean 'cut off from civilization'. If I had spurious amounts of cash, I'd buy a very high-end laptop. 30+ gig HD, GeForce Video, DVD/CD-RW, 15" screen, 256M at minimum... All in one, small, easy to carry package. The wife has a new Inspiron 8100. Everything, and I do mean *everything* is on board. Why NOT use it for gaming? I'd rather pack a 8-lb laptop over to my friend's house and plug in ONE cord (or two; one for power, one for network, if he doesn't have a WAP) than a 30-lb tower, 40+ lb monitor, a pack full of cables and other assorted hardware...
I might be able to make more room for the Vodka!
GIR: I'm going to sing the Doom song now. Doom doom doom doom doom doom de-doom doom doom doom doom doom doom...
The review/preview makes a big deal about how most laptop DVD players drain the batteries before the movie is entirely over, or very shortly after. Using a dedicated graphics chip to render the animation should improve the battery life by quite a bit.
Not necessarily. I've got a GeForce2 Go in my laptop. Besides the fact that it runs desktop applications a good deal better at 1600x1200, I often play games on it (either Docked or hooked up to an external K/V/M).
It really is nice to be able to do _everything_ on one computer and to be able to carry that computer where ever you go (e.g., work, home, beach house, etc).
Please. Enough with laptops on fire. I cannot stand any more heat - my dell has already burnt the hair off my balls. Thank you, Reikk
EVERYTHING is there in a laptop to replace an average workstation, but there's one thing I'd really like for overall performance boost... if you can stick a high power processor, high resolution LCD panel with super brightness, and have a 3d GPU in the lot, how about IDE raid, imagine having 2x48GB striped under your laptop, a second drive wouldn't take that much more volume (ok forget about the ultrathin or small laptops, we're talking about a nice workstation replacement here :)) I'd like booting off a laptop faster... IDE RAID would be the best solution for speed increase in that area. The drawback of course would be doubling the chance of losing data but then again you could also put mirroring or striping as options (so mirroring would actually ensure data integrity from disk drive failure).
I am using a Dell 8100 notebook 512MB ram, external 80GB firewire drive for dumping data that I won't access too often, 48GB 2.5" drive, overall my rating is 9/10, it ROCKS, the IDE raid thing would really be welcomed but I know it's not a mainsream request, unfortunately.
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
As a Senior Network dude for a company that specializes in massively multi-user (isn't that getting old fast?) on-line 3D environment technology, I can tell you we're waiting with bated breath for these kinds of developments. Right now we use one of the laptops with the GeForce 2 Go chipset, and we'd love a laptop with this new chipset. More FPS with all the features turned on == better demo == better chance of closing a valuable deal.
Also, when we developers travel, it helps to be able to work on the environment while on the move. Our system requires quite a powerful system (if you insist on running the various servers and the client all on the same box - *grin*) to allow you to do testing and full blown development on the move.
So, _you_ might not see the reason for this, but believe me, a lot of companies working with any kind of 3D technologies certainly will, as will developers and people who like to go to a LAN party using something smaller than an SUV (moving my 19" hitachi monitor is a b*tch)....
Tomb.
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
more drivers that don't _FUCKING NOT COMPILE_!
Does that mean that they do compile?
My spoon is too big.
My laptop with a GF2Go is actually a *better* gaming rig than my desktop - the HD is actually faster, because DMA is broken on the desktop due to a defective mobo.
Mind you, it's only temporary, but said laptop is a pretty damn good gaming rig.
-- Veni, vidi, dormivi
I've been wanting to upgrade my aging Toshiba Satellite, but so far every Athlon notebook I've found uses some lame graphics chip rather than nVidia or ATI Radeon series chips. And no SXGA+ or UXGA res screens either. Has anyone found one? Maybe we'll see them early next year when the 130nm Mobile Athlons come out?
Maybe Micron will build one. Their new Athlon/nForce desktops look sweet, definite Dell-killers.
Today my Dell Inspiron 8100 came in. PIII 1GHz-M, 384M memory, 30G disk, 8X DVD, 15.1" Super XGA+ screen that does 1440x1050, and a 32M DDR GeForce 2 Go.
;*(
I thought I was king of the world. So I throw it on my LAN and go to slashdot...
... to see the upcoming GeForce3 Go be announced.
Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!! It's not fair!
-----
I just don't see a reason, honestly, for having 'awesome gfx' in a laptop
Personally, I'd love to be able to take a laptop with "Awesome Graphics" and sound for that matter, to a Lan Party instead of lugging my desktop with me.
"Our products just aren't engineered for security,"
-Brian Valentine,VP in charge of MS Windows Development
That's why the scores seem low, and that's also why there's such a dramatic improvement over the GF2Go and Mobile Radeon 7500.
The NV17M does multi-sampled AA, which one texture lookup per pixel, instead of one texture lookup per sample. This gives considerably greater performance, but the quality of the texture filtering is not as high. The GF2Go and Mobile Radeon 7500 both use supersampling, which uses the slower (but arguably higher quality) method.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
nVidia supplies source code only for the 2D functionality on their cards to date, apparently because their technology draws on some patent-encumbered features from third parties (rumored SGI). nVidia flatly refuses (and indeed cannot) release the specifications to Open Source developers.
nVidia supplies a binary precompiled OpenGL-accelerated driver for Linux, or rather several varieties for different kernel configurations. However, those precompiled drivers are (1) not supported by some distributions (e.g., Red Hat) because they can't be properly debugged, fixed or improved by distribution-producing companies, and (2) are unstable for some people running Linux for unknown reasons. A badly written kernel plugin can wreak plenty havoc on the whole running system, with little protection.
Matrox and ATi are more supportive of the Open Source world, because they are in control of their own technologies and see the benefit of many developers collaborating on their drivers. DRI support can move forward to get fast and safe access to video hardware without endangering the safety or security of the rest of the machine.
One of the Windows technologies' biggest problem is the unexplained BSoD. Death from nowhere with little explanation. The major cause of BSoDs is poorly written device drivers which run in an unprotected ring zero environment. One bad instruction can ruin your whole machine's state. Is this what we want for the Linux environment? Are we going to keep adding unprotected, unknown and undebuggable closed source solutions into the Linux kernel, adding more and more sources of kernel lockups? Do we need to start talking about a PSoD (Penguin Screen of Death)?
I'm looking forward to the upcoming drivers for new ATi Radeon cards, myself. Open Source DRI/DRM drivers and solid 2D and 3D performance. How about you?
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The problem with the GeForce2 Go right now is that nobody bloody sells it. Toshiba, yeah, but with dinky 1024 x 768 screens. Dell, yeah, but they're, like, Dell, and their hardware reliability is questionable
Not in my experience (Now up approx 500 Dell PC's installed) Dell hardware is very reliable. It's their GeForce2Go drivers that could do with some attention. I've got 3 Dell 8100 here in the office, All three are absolutely brilliant, except mine has XP. And the video driver keeps forcing XP to crash. I had to install a BETA driver before the damn thing worked right. Now it is, I'm very happy. Not the first time I've had problems with Dell drivers, especially on newly released hardware.
All in all, the GeForce2Go works incredibly well and so does the 8100. I rarely if ever need to use anything else and it's worth every cent.
"Old Rallydrivers never die - they just fail to book in on time"
Since the XBox uses a GeForce 3 part, we should see games that use the vertex shader hardware real soon now.
How many PC's ship with the GeForce 3 as the base configuration (unlike its cheaprer cousin the MX)? The trouble is that the GeForce 3 with its power and expense is an ideal after-market card for those who want it.
However, portables don't have that option. Assuming that the price for the NV17M is anything like the GeForce 3 (and nVidia will have real problems with its vendors if it doesn't), you're looking at adding a few hundred dollars to the price of every portable for power that only a fraction of the users will want.
I can't see many manufacturers choosing this chip. I wonder what nVidia was thinking?